Obama, nudging Trump, says he must 'stand up' to Russia

[webfact]

Obama, nudging Trump, says he must 'stand up' to Russia

By JOSH LEDERMAN and DAVID RISING

 

BERLIN (AP) — President Barack Obama prodded Donald Trump on Thursday to take a tougher approach toward Russia, urging the president-elect to "stand up" to Moscow when it violates global norms. The Kremlin accused Obama of trying to lock in bad relations before Trump takes office.

 

In Europe for his last time as president, Obama said he doesn't expect Trump to mirror his own strategy on Russia, and hopes his successor will work constructively with the superpower where appropriate. Yet he insisted the U.S. mustn't gloss over deep disagreements over Syria, Ukraine and basic democratic values.

 

"My hope is that he does not simply take a realpolitik approach," Obama said, using a German term for a foreign policy driven by expediency. He said he hopes the businessman won't cut deals with Russia if it hurts other countries or "just do whatever is convenient at the time."

 

Obama's remarks in a news conference with German Chancellor Angela Merkel marked his most explicit attempt since the election to influence the policies Trump will pursue as president. Obama has privately urged Trump not to obliterate the efforts of the last eight years, but in public he has tried to avoid boxing in his successor.

 

Yet Trump's unexpected victory has put Obama in the unwelcome position of having to reassure foreign leaders that Trump won't follow through on alarming positions he staked out in his campaign, such as the notion the U.S. might not defend its NATO allies. NATO members and other European countries are worried that under Trump, the U.S. will stop trying to police Russia's behavior the way it has under Obama.

 

Most concerning to U.S. allies are Trump's effusive comments about Russian President Vladimir Putin, one of the first world leaders he spoke to after winning the election. The Kremlin has said Putin and Trump agreed in that call to try to fully normalize U.S.-Russia relations, an alarming prospect for Russia's neighbors who fear the U.S. will let sanctions on Moscow lapse and acquiesce to Russia's behavior in Ukraine and Syria.

 

Putin foreign policy adviser Yuri Ushakov told Russian news agencies that Obama's administration was "doing everything it can to drive bilateral ties into such a deadlock that would make it difficult for a new team to get them out from, if it wishes to do so."

 

The White House declined to comment on that accusation.

 

Ushakov also said that Trump's call with Putin had revealed a "shared desire" to fight terrorism and collaborate on Syria. Obama's administration accuses Russia of prolonging Syria's civil war by intervening militarily to prop up President Bashar Assad.

 

Germany's Merkel, for her part, said she was approaching the incoming Trump administration with "an open mind" and was encouraged that the presidential process in the U.S. was "working smoothly" so far.

 

Obama's closest partner on the world stage, Merkel has been instrumental in Obama's efforts to coordinate U.S. and European approaches toward Russia, as well as other conflicts including the Syria crisis and the fight against the Islamic State group. Thursday's meeting was the last for Obama — who leaves office in January — and Merkel, who declined to say whether she plans to run for re-election.

 

As for the limit on U.S. presidents serving two terms, Merkel said simply, "It's a tough rule: Eight years and that's it."

 

Obama, speaking broadly about his own successor, said he was "cautiously optimistic" about Trump. He said that "solemn responsibilities" and "extraordinary demands" of the presidency tend to demand a level of seriousness, implying Trump might rein in some of the bellicose statements of the campaign trail.

 

"If you're not serious about the job, then you probably won't be there very long because it will expose problems," Obama said.

With Obama leaving office Jan. 20, the U.S. is stepping up efforts to deter Russia from using cyberattacks to meddle in the United States.

 

The Obama administration has been incensed by Russia's suspected hacking of U.S. political groups. Obama said he'd told Putin that "there has been very clear proof that they have engaged in cyberattacks."

 

A senior U.S. official said the administration had taken the notable step of complaining to Russia through a secure, round-the-clock "hotline" originally setup to avert a nuclear war. The U.S. relayed its complaint on Oct. 31 — a week before Election Day — said the official, who requested anonymity to discuss private diplomatic conversations.

 

"The Russians have a very active and aggressive capability to conduct information operations," James Clapper, the top U.S. intelligence official, told Congress on Thursday. "I expect that would continue."

___

Associated Press writers Nancy Benac and Deb Riechmann in Washington, Kirsten Grieshaber and Frank Jordans in Berlin, and Vladimir Isachenkov in Moscow contributed to this report.

 

-- © Associated Press 2016-11-18

[NovaBlue05]

Obama set the bar low in terms of the US asserting itself. Probably not the best source to seek advice on the subject

[daveAustin]

Quote

As for the limit on U.S. presidents serving two terms, Merkel said simply, "It's a tough rule: Eight years and that's it."

 

Thank gawd for that! Europe would certainly be a better place had you bowed out after 8 years! What a pair, two peas in a pod.

 

And just how condescending is Obama? Trump could not do a worse job than you, matey boy. The very reason Russia has it's back up is because of your administration's interference with what happened in Ukraine. You have done more to rile the Russians and have people talking of WWIII since the end of the Cold War. So, yes, please move along Barry and do so quietly, would you!

[craigt3365]

33 minutes ago, daveAustin said:

 

Thank gawd for that! Europe would certainly be a better place had you bowed out after 8 years! What a pair, two peas in a pod.

 

And just how condescending is Obama? Trump could not do a worse job than you, matey boy. The very reason Russia has it's back up is because of your administration's interference with what happened in Ukraine. You have done more to rile the Russians and have people talking of WWIII since the end of the Cold War. So, yes, please move along Barry and do so quietly, would you!

Russia was also interfering in Ukraine.  Big time.  The ex-PM is hiding out there. LOL

 

You've forgotten Georgia, Moldova and Chechnya.  And the atrocities Russia committed to these former USSR satellite states. 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euromaidan

Quote

EuroMaidan [had] grown into something far bigger than just an angry response to the fallen-through EU deal. It's now about ousting Yanukovych and his corrupt government; guiding Ukraine away from its 200-year-long, deeply intertwined and painful relationship with Russia; and standing up for basic human rights to protest, speak and think freely and to act peacefully without the threat of punishment.^[94]

 

The people spoke.  Their desire should be respected. 

[JHolmesJr]

Ok i get it now....barry seems to be unwillng to pass the baton.....i thnk hes plannng to be a backseat president for at least the next 4 years. All part of a move to diss mr trump. It only makes america look bad. 

[BrainLife]

Obama, just shut up and go play golf and take a last holiday on the taxpayers cost these coming 2 months

[Usernames]

3 hours ago, webfact said:

Yet Trump's unexpected victory has put Obama in the unwelcome position of having to reassure foreign leaders that Trump won't follow through on alarming positions he staked out in his campaign, such as the notion the U.S. might not defend its NATO allies. NATO members and other European countries are worried that under Trump, the U.S. will stop trying to police Russia's behavior the way it has under Obama.

 

 

If Nato members such as Germany fear Russia so much, why aren't they willing to spend their own money to protect themselves?  

Most NATO countries are boosting their military spending by small amounts if any, despite the concern over Russia’s growing assertiveness, according to a report released Monday by the alliance. . . . In total, the U.S. accounts for roughly 75% of the military spending by all NATO members. U.S. leaders for years have urged European countries to do more, saying they need to take more responsibility for their own defense.

 http://www.wsj.com/articles/nato-calls-for-rise-in-defence-spending-by-alliance-members-1434978193

[JuanCarlos]

1 hour ago, craigt3365 said:

Russia was also interfering in Ukraine.  Big time.  The ex-PM is hiding out there. LOL

 

You've forgotten Georgia, Moldova and Chechnya.  And the atrocities Russia committed to these former USSR satellite states. 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euromaidan

 

The people spoke.  Their desire should be respected. 

Well not willing to mess up with you but on one side you say the Russia interfer in Crimea where a poll was made and the people spoke : they wanted to be Russian.

What is the difference between Crimea and Kossovo for you? not a rant, just curious of what differences you see between those two?

[craigt3365]

6 minutes ago, JuanCarlos said:

Well not willing to mess up with you but on one side you say the Russia interfer in Crimea where a poll was made and the people spoke : they wanted to be Russian.

What is the difference between Crimea and Kossovo for you? not a rant, just curious of what differences you see between those two?

I wasn't talking about Crimea.  I was talking about Russia's influence with Yanukovych, former Ukraine PM.  And the Euromaidan.

 

The poll in Crimea was done after a military invasion.  You can't carve out a small piece of a country and take a poll that impacts the entire sovereign nation.  It has to be a country wide poll.  Which was never done.  Scotland did it the right way.  The upper part of Michigan has wanted to become a separate state in the US for many years.  Luckily, it's not up to just them, it's up to all the citizens of the state of Michigan.

 

I don't know much about Kossovo.

[JuanCarlos]

5 minutes ago, craigt3365 said:

I wasn't talking about Crimea.  I was talking about Russia's influence with Yanukovych, former Ukraine PM.  And the Euromaidan.

 

The poll in Crimea was done after a military invasion.  You can't carve out a small piece of a country and take a poll that impacts the entire sovereign nation.  It has to be a country wide poll.  Which was never done.  Scotland did it the right way.  The upper part of Michigan has wanted to become a separate state in the US for many years.  Luckily, it's not up to just them, it's up to all the citizens of the state of Michigan.

 

I don't know much about Kossovo.

Well Kossovo was nearly the same and yet the NATO organized a "humanitarian war"...recently Milošević was cleared from all charges....a bit late tho

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kosovo_War

Have a look if you re curious and see the parrallele and why Russia use this also to justify Crimea intervention

Not willing to claim Russia is all clean and good, but once you see the actions of NATO we can clearly see this organization is a joke as well

[craigt3365]

1 minute ago, JuanCarlos said:

Well Kossovo was nearly the same and yet the NATO organized a "humanitarian war"...recently Milošević was cleared from all charges....a bit late tho

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kosovo_War

Have a look if you re curious and see the parrallele and why Russia use this also to justify Crimea intervention

Not willing to claim Russia is all clean and good, but once you see the actions of NATO we can clearly see this organization is a joke as well

I was hoping to visit Kosovo a few weeks ago but ran out of time.  I was in Belgrade.

 

There is NO excuse for an invasion, other than perhaps for humanitarian reasons.  Which is not why Russia invaded Crimea and Eastern Ukraine.  Sovereign nations are trying to join NATO due to their previous history with Russia.  They want the protection.  Can't blame them.  That's not NATO's fault, it's Russia's.  Ask the people in Georgia, Gori, where Russia bombed them and killed civilians in a Sovereign nation.  Terrible thing.  they want to be part of NATO! 

[JuanCarlos]

6 minutes ago, craigt3365 said:

I was hoping to visit Kosovo a few weeks ago but ran out of time.  I was in Belgrade.

 

There is NO excuse for an invasion, other than perhaps for humanitarian reasons.  Which is not why Russia invaded Crimea and Eastern Ukraine.  Sovereign nations are trying to join NATO due to their previous history with Russia.  They want the protection.  Can't blame them.  That's not NATO's fault, it's Russia's.  Ask the people in Georgia, Gori, where Russia bombed them and killed civilians in a Sovereign nation.  Terrible thing.  they want to be part of NATO! 

I can understand, I also understand NATO is far from being a guardian angel, and the Kossovo war show clearly this and the fact that it can be used to coerce countries as well....

As an European I am more afraid of this old archaic organization which was created after WW2 and not for asymetrical wars and present days, than Russia which could be a great partner...a thing USA would not like at all... as long as NATO is mainly funded by the US, this organization has other goals than just "protecting the UE"...

 

Edited November 18, 2016 by JuanCarlos

[craigt3365]

4 minutes ago, JuanCarlos said:

I can understand, I also understand NATO is far from being a guardian angel, and the Kossovo war show clearly this and the fact that it can be used to coerce countries as well....

As an European I am more afraid of this old archaic organization which was created after WW2 and not for asymetrical wars and present days, than Russia which could be a great partner...a thing USA would not like at all... as long as NATO is mainly funded by the US, this organization has other goals than just "protecting the UE"...

 

The US would love for Russia to be a partner.  It's all about trade, global stabilization, etc.  It's up to Russia.  Stop invading other sovereign countries.  Can't blame the US for that.  Nor NATO.

[JuanCarlos]

5 minutes ago, craigt3365 said:

The US would love for Russia to be a partner.  It's all about trade, global stabilization, etc.  It's up to Russia.  Stop invading other sovereign countries.  Can't blame the US for that.  Nor NATO.

Well let's agree to disagree....don't you think it is a bit funny that US complain  about Russia invading countries while they invade Syria, Irak, Lybia (please dont use the "freedom, democracy, help card for these) played with countless governments to put their puppets in charge,...

As for NATO you should really check the link and see why strangely NATO is not accountable for what most of the observers see now as war crimes in Kossovo...

 

Edited November 18, 2016 by JuanCarlos

[Gary A]

I think Trump has come to the conclusion that the US can no longer continue to be the world's policeman. The Middle East is the best example of this. The US tried to stuff democracy down the throats of those who do not want it. The damage caused, if it can be repaired, will take many years. The US has failed to learn anything. The fact is that It takes a ruthless dictator to control violent lunatics. I would hope that Russia continues to spend its money and lives to defeat the worst of the muslim lunatics. Nation building has been a total and complete disaster. The US should learn from its mistakes and worry about the problems at home.

[craigt3365]

9 minutes ago, JuanCarlos said:

Well let's agree to disagree....don't you think it is a bit funny that US complain  about Russia invading countries while they invade Syria, Irak, Lybia (please dont use the "freedom, democracy, help card for these) played with countless governments to put their puppets in charge,...

As for NATO you should really check the link and see why strangely NATO is not accountable for what most of the observers see now as war crimes in Kossovo...

 

I think the Ukraine, Georgia and Moldova invasions by Russia (where territory was taken and occupied) is a bit different than Syria and Libya.  No comparison.  Plus, in Syria and Libya, it's a global coalition. Not just one country.

[craigt3365]

9 minutes ago, Gary A said:

I think Trump has come to the conclusion that the US can no longer continue to be the world's policeman. The Middle East is the best example of this. The US tried to stuff democracy down the throats of those who do not want it. The damage caused, if it can be repaired, will take many years. The US has failed to learn anything. The fact is that It takes a ruthless dictator to control violent lunatics. I would hope that Russia continues to spend its money and lives to defeat the worst of the muslim lunatics. Nation building has been a total and complete disaster. The US should learn from its mistakes and worry about the problems at home.

The average person in the ME wants democracy, thus the Arab Spring uprisings.  The maniacal dictators obviously don't. LOL  Impossible for most to support violent and brutal dictators.  Luckily.  But yes, nation building doesn't work.

[JuanCarlos]

4 minutes ago, craigt3365 said:

I think the Ukraine, Georgia and Moldova invasions by Russia (where territory was taken and occupied) is a bit different than Syria and Libya.  No comparison.  Plus, in Syria and Libya, it's a global coalition. Not just one country.

No comparison? I bet Syria and Lybia disagree to that...in fact it is even worse cause they came, destroyed and left them dealing with extremism...Can you tell me the members of the coalition? I bet they are nearly all members of NATO, NATO itself or countries which have all interest to see the leaders falling...(for personnal interests of course)

Edited November 18, 2016 by JuanCarlos

[craigt3365]

10 minutes ago, JuanCarlos said:

No comparison? I bet Syria and Lybia disagree to that...in fact it is even worse cause they came, destroyed and left them dealing with extremism...Can you tell me the members of the coalition? I bet they are nearly all members of NATO, NATO itself or countries which have all interest to see the leaders falling...(for personnal interests of course)

Let's stick to NATO.  Syria and Libya are another topic.

[silent]

2 hours ago, craigt3365 said:

Russia was also interfering in Ukraine.  Big time.  The ex-PM is hiding out there. LOL

 

You've forgotten Georgia, Moldova and Chechnya.  And the atrocities Russia committed to these former USSR satellite states. 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euromaidan

 

The people spoke.  Their desire should be respected. 

Those things don't matter to a Trumpeteer as much as not missing any opportunity to throw out another aspersion for the good of the club. 

 

[JuanCarlos]

Just now, craigt3365 said:

Let's stick to NATO.  Syria and Libya are another topic.

Precisely, just wanted to show you NATO is dodgy and not better than Russia...but also an outdated organization who avoided war crimes trials and is not better than Russia because of its interventions in countries where it shouldn't have any influence...for many europeans both sides of the fence are responsible for the current tensions between  UE and Russia and having NATO mainly financed by US do not help people to think NATO is neutral and only a protective organization...

[Gary A]

I view NATO and the UN as the same huge expensive scam. Let the rest of the members, and just not the US,  pay their own way.

[craigt3365]

3 minutes ago, JuanCarlos said:

Precisely, just wanted to show you NATO is dodgy and not better than Russia...but also an outdated organization who avoided war crimes trials and is not better than Russia because of its interventions in countries where it shouldn't have any influence...for many europeans both sides of the fence are responsible for the current tensions between  UE and Russia and having NATO mainly financed by US do not help people to think NATO is neutral and only a protective organization...

Which country has NATO invaded and occupied?

[craigt3365]

3 minutes ago, Gary A said:

I view NATO and the UN as the same huge expensive scam. Let the rest of the members, and just not the US,  pay their own way.

They are far from perfect, but probably best to come up with some alternatives first?  I use to work with the UN when I was in NYC.  Man, the stories I could tell.  Some parts of the UN do some fantastic work.  Others, not so much.

[Scott]

An off-topic post has been removed.   Continued off-topic posting is going to result in suspensions.   There has been far too much leeway given to discussing whatever happens to pop into some members' minds.   This topic is about Trump/Obama/Russia.  

 

Stick to it or face a suspension.  

[Baerboxer]

3 hours ago, craigt3365 said:

I wasn't talking about Crimea.  I was talking about Russia's influence with Yanukovych, former Ukraine PM.  And the Euromaidan.

 

The poll in Crimea was done after a military invasion.  You can't carve out a small piece of a country and take a poll that impacts the entire sovereign nation.  It has to be a country wide poll.  Which was never done.  Scotland did it the right way.  The upper part of Michigan has wanted to become a separate state in the US for many years.  Luckily, it's not up to just them, it's up to all the citizens of the state of Michigan.

 

I don't know much about Kossovo.

 

I don't think Mr. Kruschev carried out a poll of any kind when he decided in the 1950's to give Crimea to Ukraine, the land of his birth. More a gift from a dictator regardless of what anyone thought or wanted.

[craigt3365]

7 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

I don't think Mr. Kruschev carried out a poll of any kind when he decided in the 1950's to give Crimea to Ukraine, the land of his birth. More a gift from a dictator regardless of what anyone thought or wanted.

He was in charge of the USSR.  So kinda had the right to do what he want's.  Russia is not in charge of Ukraine, so has NO right to do what they want.  If the Ukrainian PM had given it away, then fine.  But that's not what happened.  Right?

[elgordo38]

7 hours ago, NovaBlue05 said:

Obama set the bar low in terms of the US asserting itself. Probably not the best source to seek advice on the subject

Setting the bar low is quite common all over especially during quarterly company financial reports. Short of starting a war Obama did pretty well. I think the Donald will find that there really is a "Night of the Long Knives"

[dunroaming]

Having Trump in the big chair is one hell of a gamble and the cost could be devastating.  To buddy up to Russia at the moment would be a stupid idea and Obama recognises that.  He has eight years of experience dealing with them while Trump has had the enlightening experience of a beauty pageant there to draw on.

[Thaidream]

Obama's Russian foreign policy was dictated by the EU. The fact is that Crimea has long standing ties to Russia and its takeover is a fait accompli. Russia feels that it is being encircled by NATO and drew the line with Ukraine.  Russia has a point- there are US Forces in Bulgaria, Hungary, Poland and Estonia all on Russia's border. Let's not forget that in the 1960's the US was ready to go to war with Russia over Soviet missiles being placed in Cuba some 90 miles from Us territory. The US felt threatened then and I am sure Russia feels the same now. 

 

Trump would be smart to deal with Russia and indicate that Nato will not expand further and try and encircle Russia. In addition, the US can stop trying to oust the Syrian government which Russia opposes. The 2 countries should be working together militarily to crush ISIS which is a real threat to both Russia and the US not to mention Europe.

 

It is time for Nato countries to increase their military budgets and stop asking the US to forward deploy troops . Let the European countries spend the money and their resources if they are so worried about the Russians. The UK is the best European ally the US has and getting out of the EU will be eventually seen as a great move for the UK.

 

Trump appears to believe that America's days as policeman of the World are over which is what most Americans want. He also wants complete American independence on oil; natural gas; and other important resources and that is why he will approve the  pipeline from Canada to the US and allow increased drilling everywhere. ONce America has complete independence- support for countries like Saudi Arabia will go away. America will still intervene when America's national interests are at stake or when treaty obligations exist. There's a new sheriff in town and he carries a big stick.