Obama, nudging Trump, says he must 'stand up' to Russia

[bassman]

6 minutes ago, dunroaming said:

Having Trump in the big chair is one hell of a gamble and the cost could be devastating.  To buddy up to Russia at the moment would be a stupid idea and Obama recognises that.  He has eight years of experience dealing with them while Trump has had the enlightening experience of a beauty pageant there to draw on.

 

Obama has had 8 years of embarrassment from Putin.  Shortly after the invasion of Georgia, Obama sent Clinton with the reset button, guess it didn't work out so well.

 

Putin outmaneuvered Obama in Syria and now look at the current, ongoing humanitarian disaster.  Obama made America a paper tiger after his red line threat to Assad was not fulfilled.  If Obama would have carried out the red line threat at that time, when Russian military was not engaged, he could have destroyed the runways and Assad's Air Force in 48 hours.  Remember, it is those runways and facilities that the Russians are now using.   It also would have been the perfect time to set up no fly zones and safe areas for refugee camps.

 

Putin advised Obama not to invade Libya, now another dysfunctional country with terrorist controlled areas.  Putin is easy to not like, Obama is just stupid.

 

Now the worst president in modern times is in foreign countries spreading lies, false fear and anti-American, pro globalization rhetoric.

 

[dunroaming]

13 minutes ago, bassman said:

Putin outmaneuvered Obama in Syria

 

You are reading too much into Obama's role in Syria.  Everyone has egg on their face over Syria.  The initial response was to back the rebels and get Assad defeated. Cameron and Obama committed to that.  Then it was discovered that some of the rebels were actually ISIL and therefore the water got very muddy.  Assad saw this as an opportunity to pile on the pressure using chemical weapons and killing many innocent people including women and children.  Even to the point of bombing hospitals.  Then Russia got on board with Assad and committed to attack and defeat the rebels no matter what group they were.  That escalates the death toll to untold levels. 

 

If you think that that is something you should congratulate Putin on and he is the sort of leader you admire then that's fine.

[Thaidream]

I don't think Putin is a wonderful leader, but I do think he wants to restore Russia to a super power status. If Obama had set up a no fly zone and attempted to oust the Syrian leader- Russia and America maybe involved in a hot war. Russia has long term security interests in Syria as well as Russian bases. Obama was smart not to intervene except via bombing and special forces.I don't blam Obama because Europe cannot enforce it's own borders and have ceded individual authority to the EU.  Why do youthink the UK is getting out of the EU. Now with Trump in power- the Us can get away from the concept of establishing Democracy in Syria and join with Russia in getting rid of ISIS. Russia can keep their troops in Syria and let them spend their resources and blood propping up the Syrian regime. The real enemy is ISIS.

[dunroaming]

13 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

I don't think Putin is a wonderful leader, but I do think he wants to restore Russia to a super power status. If Obama had set up a no fly zone and attempted to oust the Syrian leader- Russia and America maybe involved in a hot war. Russia has long term security interests in Syria as well as Russian bases. Obama was smart not to intervene except via bombing and special forces.I don't blam Obama because Europe cannot enforce it's own borders and have ceded individual authority to the EU.  Why do youthink the UK is getting out of the EU. Now with Trump in power- the Us can get away from the concept of establishing Democracy in Syria and join with Russia in getting rid of ISIS. Russia can keep their troops in Syria and let them spend their resources and blood propping up the Syrian regime. The real enemy is ISIS.

 

We see things very differently.  I don't think broad brush strokes work with Assad or Putin or all the people being massacred in Syria.  Time will tell

[connda]

It's time to normalize relations. 

[craigt3365]

15 hours ago, Thaidream said:

Obama's Russian foreign policy was dictated by the EU. The fact is that Crimea has long standing ties to Russia and its takeover is a fait accompli. Russia feels that it is being encircled by NATO and drew the line with Ukraine.  Russia has a point- there are US Forces in Bulgaria, Hungary, Poland and Estonia all on Russia's border. Let's not forget that in the 1960's the US was ready to go to war with Russia over Soviet missiles being placed in Cuba some 90 miles from Us territory. The US felt threatened then and I am sure Russia feels the same now. 

 

Trump would be smart to deal with Russia and indicate that Nato will not expand further and try and encircle Russia. In addition, the US can stop trying to oust the Syrian government which Russia opposes. The 2 countries should be working together militarily to crush ISIS which is a real threat to both Russia and the US not to mention Europe.

 

It is time for Nato countries to increase their military budgets and stop asking the US to forward deploy troops . Let the European countries spend the money and their resources if they are so worried about the Russians. The UK is the best European ally the US has and getting out of the EU will be eventually seen as a great move for the UK.

 

Trump appears to believe that America's days as policeman of the World are over which is what most Americans want. He also wants complete American independence on oil; natural gas; and other important resources and that is why he will approve the  pipeline from Canada to the US and allow increased drilling everywhere. ONce America has complete independence- support for countries like Saudi Arabia will go away. America will still intervene when America's national interests are at stake or when treaty obligations exist. There's a new sheriff in town and he carries a big stick.

Perhaps Russia feels it's being encircled by NATO due to it's aggressive actions.  Taking invading sovereign countries like Georgia, Ukraine and Moldova.  Installing military bases there.  Threats that the Baltics succession was illegal and the ruling overturned and they come back into Russia's fold.

 

I posted this elsewhere, but it makes sense:

http://www.rand.org/blog/2015/07/the-baltic-balance-how-to-reduce-the-chances-of-war.html

Quote

To be sure, the chances of a Russian attack on the Baltics are low, and the costs of war with NATO would be enormous for Moscow. But Moscow's calculus and future trajectory are highly uncertain, and its recent saber-rattling along NATO's eastern flank—including military exercises, bellicose language, and provocative air and naval maneuvers—has raised concerns and heightened tensions throughout the region. Even Sweden, traditionally non-aligned, has begun to seriously consider joining NATO. Given the Kremlin's behavior, NATO has no choice but to take the risk of conflict seriously.

 

Let's hope there's a reset.  It's desperately needed.

[mrwebb8825]

NATO is a joke and has been for 50 years. The name is NATO but the only true power in it is the US of A. Most people aren't old enough to remember but when NATO was formed, America still occupied most of Europe and Russia was nearly depleted BUT was an ally of the US. Whisperings, rumor mongering and suspicions started the cold war which kept both the US and Russia occupied with each other while Europe rebuilt itself.

Just like the "African-Americans" who still cry about slavery, it's time for Europe to move on and stop looking for free handouts. There have been no real wars carried out by dominate world powers since WWII. Korea was a civil war with meddling. Vietnam was a civil war with meddling. 90% or more of all things done in the Middle East were over power brokering for money until it finally launched into underground terrorists attacking everybody.

If all the nations would work with the existing leaders of the countries and STOP trying to tell them what to do in their own countries we could make better deals and have a much freer rein to send in forces with great intel, kill ISIS and extremists and get back to taking care of the home-front.

It's not my place to come to your house and make you live my way. Just because we purchase each other's products doesn't mean we have to be friends or enemies.

[craigt3365]

8 minutes ago, mrwebb8825 said:

NATO is a joke and has been for 50 years. The name is NATO but the only true power in it is the US of A. Most people aren't old enough to remember but when NATO was formed, America still occupied most of Europe and Russia was nearly depleted BUT was an ally of the US. Whisperings, rumor mongering and suspicions started the cold war which kept both the US and Russia occupied with each other while Europe rebuilt itself.

Just like the "African-Americans" who still cry about slavery, it's time for Europe to move on and stop looking for free handouts. There have been no real wars carried out by dominate world powers since WWII. Korea was a civil war with meddling. Vietnam was a civil war with meddling. 90% or more of all things done in the Middle East were over power brokering for money until it finally launched into underground terrorists attacking everybody.

If all the nations would work with the existing leaders of the countries and STOP trying to tell them what to do in their own countries we could make better deals and have a much freer rein to send in forces with great intel, kill ISIS and extremists and get back to taking care of the home-front.

It's not my place to come to your house and make you live my way. Just because we purchase each other's products doesn't mean we have to be friends or enemies.

As I've posted before, I think some in Georgia, Ukraine, Moldova and Chechnya might disagree with you.  The first 3 want to join NATO for protection.

[mesquite]

Obama lost major credibility when he said Russia was not an issue during his debate of '12.  He lost the rest of it when he said Trump would never be president. 

 

Trump will do fine.  Obama should just pack up his stuff and prepare to leave.

[mrwebb8825]

7 minutes ago, craigt3365 said:

As I've posted before, I think some in Georgia, Ukraine, Moldova and Chechnya might disagree with you.  The first 3 want to join NATO for protection.

They want to join NATO for US protection, NOT NATO protection. And, like I said, how Europe runs itself or Asia runs itself or the Middle East runs itself is none of our concern as long as it does nothing to interfere with economics.

There is NO sign on the borders of the United States that says: World Police Headquarters: Complain Here.

[craigt3365]

3 hours ago, mrwebb8825 said:

They want to join NATO for US protection, NOT NATO protection. And, like I said, how Europe runs itself or Asia runs itself or the Middle East runs itself is none of our concern as long as it does nothing to interfere with economics.

There is NO sign on the borders of the United States that says: World Police Headquarters: Complain Here.

Any invasions in this area will interfere with economics.  Like it or not, NATO members are there by choice and can depart whenever they want.  Which hasn't happened yet.

[mrwebb8825]

28 minutes ago, craigt3365 said:

Any invasions in this area will interfere with economics.  Like it or not, NATO members are there by choice and can depart whenever they want.  Which hasn't happened yet.

Of Course it hasn't happened yet. The US is paying 70% of the bill. How many do you think would stay if/when trump follows through with his pledge of pay-up or piss off? 

The best thing that could possibly happen for Europe and Asia would be for the states, Russia and China to form a pact. Then work out the details on who would collect from whom in the form of economic trade, exports and imports. The World Court could be disbanded, The UN could be disbanded, the EU could be disbanded. Then, any country that did NOT want to pay their fair share could go it alone, strike their own trade deals and finance their own military.

I'll guarantee you, a combined military force of 200,000,000+ that could mobilize to any region of the world in 24 hrs or less would be a better deterrent to terrorism than the combined 200,000(?) NATO and EU military currently is.

If you check your history books, this is NOT a new idea. Patton, if turned loose and backed, would have had this in place before NATO was formed, only Russia would have been replaced by England before they got sucked into the EU.

[craigt3365]

7 minutes ago, mrwebb8825 said:

Of Course it hasn't happened yet. The US is paying 70% of the bill. How many do you think would stay if/when trump follows through with his pledge of pay-up or piss off? 

The best thing that could possibly happen for Europe and Asia would be for the states, Russia and China to form a pact. Then work out the details on who would collect from whom in the form of economic trade, exports and imports. The World Court could be disbanded, The UN could be disbanded, the EU could be disbanded. Then, any country that did NOT want to pay their fair share could go it alone, strike their own trade deals and finance their own military.

I'll guarantee you, a combined military force of 200,000,000+ that could mobilize to any region of the world in 24 hrs or less would be a better deterrent to terrorism than the combined 200,000(?) NATO and EU military currently is.

If you check your history books, this is NOT a new idea. Patton, if turned loose and backed, would have had this in place before NATO was formed, only Russia would have been replaced by England before they got sucked into the EU.

That gave me a huge chuckle.  Russia, China and the US working together. I'll be laughing about that for some time.  Thanks.

[Slickrick]

So that's what Obama has been doing the last eight years, just nudging.