Overstay Blacklist

[Deke]

Does anybody know if the policy regarding blacklisting visitors for a year following a 90-day overstay is currently being enforced across the board?  Selectively enforced?

 

Thanks.

 

[ubonjoe]

It appears to be selectively enforced at airports when leaving the country.

Some have had overstays over 90 days but less than a year and did not get banned. I think it depends upon whether you have had previous overstays or not.

[Deke]

That was a very quick reply.  Thank you.

 

[DavidB4]

Does anyone know of any overstays for longer than 1 year that have not been blacklisted? 

[Ian1980]

16 minutes ago, DavidB4 said:

Does anyone know of any overstays for longer than 1 year that have not been blacklisted? 

Yes:i know one French guy:if i remember properly, i even posted on TV.He was back to France with his family with a 19 months overstay.He paied 20.000 bht plus the usual tip to the immigration:but, at the moment, i cannot remember how much.

He will be back in Thailand for spend his holiday next April.

[WaffleIron]

I'll give you the same advice I gave in my previous thread: don't leave via Don Muang if possible.

I left from Don Muang two months ago with a 700 day overstay and got blacklisted. Two other people (South-East Asians) were waiting behind me in the tiny immigration office behind the checkpoint counters to also receive a blacklist. The immigration officer was rather loud and I was able to overhear what she was telling them, which is how I know that they were going to get blacklisted as well: one for a 6 months overstay and the other for an 8 month one.

 

Basically, it looked to me as if being blacklisted with any type of overstay (over 90 days) is pretty automatic at Don Muang.

[mettech]

We all know overstay mean we like the place mak mak and we spend more money to the restaurants and we contribute to their better economy so what is the problem really ????

[BritTim]

1 hour ago, mettech said:

We all know overstay mean we like the place mak mak and we spend more money to the restaurants and we contribute to their better economy so what is the problem really ????

 

There are (or were) two main categories of overstayers. There are the ones who are destitute, often with mental problems that contributed to them reaching that state. They are a potential problem in various ways, and I can understand why Thailand wants to be rid of them. In practice, those individuals tend to be trapped unless their mental condition improves and they have family or friends who will help get them home. The other category were people who decided to overstay because it was the easy way of staying here, and they did not care about the fines and (if necessary) bribes. Those people are pretty much gone now, though they may rack up short overstays. They were no real problem to Thailand, but I understand why the Thai authorities (and many on this board) did not like them. The feeling was that they were scofflaws who needed to be put in their place.

 

The stated reason for the crackdown, that it would contribute to clearing Thailand of serious criminal elements, was quite mistaken in my view. I do not think the crackdown on overstayers has had a huge negative impact on the economy, but I also do not think it has had any significant positive effects.

[Mansell]

A friend of mine two weeks ago left with 4 days over the 90 days after a woman stole  his passport. She was supposed to be doing his retirement extension, but disappeared with his passport and the money, and a few other people's immigration stuff. Unfortunately he tried to find her for a month or so thinking she would return. Eventually got a temp passport, but was over the ninety by four days. Banned for a year at Swampy flying to KL. wasn't expecting that at all and everything of his is still here. Fined him I think 40,000 or 30,000, but then gave him 5,000 baht back. He thought they felt sorry for him. So it sounds like a crap shoot on what will happen.

[BritTim]

3 hours ago, Mansell said:

A friend of mine two weeks ago left with 4 days over the 90 days after a woman stole  his passport. She was supposed to be doing his retirement extension, but disappeared with his passport and the money, and a few other people's immigration stuff. Unfortunately he tried to find her for a month or so thinking she would return. Eventually got a temp passport, but was over the ninety by four days. Banned for a year at Swampy flying to KL. wasn't expecting that at all and everything of his is still here. Fined him I think 40,000 or 30,000, but then gave him 5,000 baht back. He thought they felt sorry for him. So it sounds like a crap shoot on what will happen.

 

I mention in passing that waiting a month, then getting an emergency travel document and leaving should not lead to a 94-day overstay.

 

Would I be correct in guessing that he flew out of Don Muang? I think the officials generally available at Suvanabhimi are more senior and have a greater degree of discretion. Middle ranking officials are probably obliged to enforce the rules. Hard luck.

 

By the way, the maximum fine is 20,000 baht. Were there other offences apart from the overstay? Did he try to bribe them?

[owenm]

I know a group of overstayers in Bangkok, and between the 4 of them, have an accumulation of more than 20 years total overstay. A Brit with 13 yrs, a Finnish with 9 yrs, and other 2 other Brits on 4 yrs and 1 yr.  One has major mental issues, another an admitted alcoholic whose family has given up on him because of big sums of money sent to him on numerous occasions, so he can arrange for Emergency Travel Document, passport expired, a O/W ticket to UK and funds to cover his 20K baht fine at Imm. On all occasions the money has been squandered on alcohol and gone within weeks. 2 have no family support and are living on the street and relying on locals generosity for food and drink. What should I do, because I'm feeling  guilty about their situation? Do I dob them in, giving them free lodgings at the Imm. Detention Center until their families can pay for all associated costs to get them home? Or do I sit blindly by and do nothing? The BIB can be either stupid or blind and ignore or turn a blind eye to these long overstayers, who maybe lucky enough to shower weekly, and wash their clothes fortnightly.  

[hawker9000]

10 hours ago, BritTim said:

 

There are (or were) two main categories of overstayers. There are the ones who are destitute, often with mental problems that contributed to them reaching that state. They are a potential problem in various ways, and I can understand why Thailand wants to be rid of them. In practice, those individuals tend to be trapped unless their mental condition improves and they have family or friends who will help get them home. The other category were people who decided to overstay because it was the easy way of staying here, and they did not care about the fines and (if necessary) bribes. Those people are pretty much gone now, though they may rack up short overstays. They were no real problem to Thailand, but I understand why the Thai authorities (and many on this board) did not like them. The feeling was that they were scofflaws who needed to be put in their place.

 

The stated reason for the crackdown, that it would contribute to clearing Thailand of serious criminal elements, was quite mistaken in my view. I do not think the crackdown on overstayers has had a huge negative impact on the economy, but I also do not think it has had any significant positive effects.

It wasn't invented to boost the economy (although it IS arguable - mostly just here on TV though I suspect - that most of them really don't contribute much to it).  It exists because of the trouble the long-term overstayers are seen to cause.  The scofflaws can rail all they want about whether that's true or not, but it's simply not their call, not ever going to BE their call, and as you yourself point out, there's no reason based in economics to not go ahead with the blacklisting.   All the noise about how much money Thailand loses if they're gotten rid of is just disgruntled whining.

[Deepinthailand]

I am sat talking with a good friend here in Pattaya. He told me his story which I have to say I had no idea about untill 15 mins ago. I am not saying he was right or wrong just relaying his story. 

Last month Oct 20th to be exact he trotted off to Suvarnabhumi Airport to get a flight to Hon Kong. he was on a 5 year yes 5 year overstay. He says he was obviously pulled and questioned for a period of time but it was all done with his words with professionalism. he payed his fine and slipped the IO 15000 bht. He recived his passport back with the exit stamp in. boarded his plane in the fullness of time. Returned to Thailand on Oct 25th. no questions asked at immigration at Suvarnabhumi on return he did in fact get a 30 day visa exempt 

So it seems yes it's selective and greasing the wheels still works.

Right or wrong is not for me to judge.

He in future will use Savanakhet to get non o multi entry based on marriage.

Edited November 19, 2016 by Deepinthailand
For correction on type of entry visa

[Deepinthailand]

4 hours ago, owenm said:

I know a group of overstayers in Bangkok, and between the 4 of them, have an accumulation of more than 20 years total overstay. A Brit with 13 yrs, a Finnish with 9 yrs, and other 2 other Brits on 4 yrs and 1 yr.  One has major mental issues, another an admitted alcoholic whose family has given up on him because of big sums of money sent to him on numerous occasions, so he can arrange for Emergency Travel Document, passport expired, a O/W ticket to UK and funds to cover his 20K baht fine at Imm. On all occasions the money has been squandered on alcohol and gone within weeks. 2 have no family support and are living on the street and relying on locals generosity for food and drink. What should I do, because I'm feeling  guilty about their situation? Do I dob them in, giving them free lodgings at the Imm. Detention Center until their families can pay for all associated costs to get them home? Or do I sit blindly by and do nothing? The BIB can be either stupid or blind and ignore or turn a blind eye to these long overstayers, who maybe lucky enough to shower weekly, and wash their clothes fortnightly.  

Personaly I would not grass on anyone with the exception of murderers and phedos and rapists. Not my call and  never will be as to how people choose to run there lives here in Thailand. To many holly joes out there thinking they know what's better for other people.

[Ian1980]

The Country, expecially between Korat and Loei, is full of overstayer.Most of them they just decided to leave in the shadow of the country, living with the funds of a life working.I know quite a dozens of them.They just move to go in city, Korat for example, but a trip to Bangkok, is quite dangerous for them. I respect their decision, cause they don't hurt anyone, even 2 of them are helping the local schools buiyng stuffs for the kids, but sometimes i feel for them like the live in a freedom prison. Sorry if my English sometimes is not correct.

[thai3]

5 hours ago, owenm said:

I know a group of overstayers in Bangkok, and between the 4 of them, have an accumulation of more than 20 years total overstay. A Brit with 13 yrs, a Finnish with 9 yrs, and other 2 other Brits on 4 yrs and 1 yr.  One has major mental issues, another an admitted alcoholic whose family has given up on him because of big sums of money sent to him on numerous occasions, so he can arrange for Emergency Travel Document, passport expired, a O/W ticket to UK and funds to cover his 20K baht fine at Imm. On all occasions the money has been squandered on alcohol and gone within weeks. 2 have no family support and are living on the street and relying on locals generosity for food and drink. What should I do, because I'm feeling  guilty about their situation? Do I dob them in, giving them free lodgings at the Imm. Detention Center until their families can pay for all associated costs to get them home? Or do I sit blindly by and do nothing? The BIB can be either stupid or blind and ignore or turn a blind eye to these long overstayers, who maybe lucky enough to shower weekly, and wash their clothes fortnightly.  

 

Dob them in and do them a favor.

[BritTim]

5 hours ago, owenm said:

I know a group of overstayers in Bangkok, and between the 4 of them, have an accumulation of more than 20 years total overstay. A Brit with 13 yrs, a Finnish with 9 yrs, and other 2 other Brits on 4 yrs and 1 yr.  One has major mental issues, another an admitted alcoholic whose family has given up on him because of big sums of money sent to him on numerous occasions, so he can arrange for Emergency Travel Document, passport expired, a O/W ticket to UK and funds to cover his 20K baht fine at Imm. On all occasions the money has been squandered on alcohol and gone within weeks. 2 have no family support and are living on the street and relying on locals generosity for food and drink. What should I do, because I'm feeling  guilty about their situation? Do I dob them in, giving them free lodgings at the Imm. Detention Center until their families can pay for all associated costs to get them home? Or do I sit blindly by and do nothing? The BIB can be either stupid or blind and ignore or turn a blind eye to these long overstayers, who maybe lucky enough to shower weekly, and wash their clothes fortnightly.  

 

Grassing on the alcoholic might conceivably lead to a positive outcome. The Finnish authorities could probably prevail on his family to facilitate his return home on the basis that they knew the money was going to be used for the correct purpose. It would be a big call. For the others, the IDC would just make their lives worse. If you really want to be a good Samaritan, you could offer to arrange laundry for them, perhaps offer them some of your old clothes, possibly let them use your place under close supervision for a shower. Under no circumstances allow them to stay with you.

[bkkcanuck8]

On 11/18/2016 at 6:35 PM, BritTim said:

 

The stated reason for the crackdown, that it would contribute to clearing Thailand of serious criminal elements, was quite mistaken in my view. I do not think the crackdown on overstayers has had a huge negative impact on the economy, but I also do not think it has had any significant positive effects.

 

The crackdown has (and I believe the intended to have) the effect of making sure the "fish" are forced through a net on a regular basis.  By forcing people to go through this net -- over time those that they want to catch will be caught and the number of foreign "undesirables" will be reduced.  The effect is not immediate -- but by constantly churning the waters over time there will be an effect to the positive.  It does not mean that all those that are banned for a period of time are really "bad guys" but it does send a message.  

[JerryinTH]

It's a gamble. I personally know someone who got blacklisted with a 105 or 107 day overstay. Had everything from work permit to marriage visa in the last 13 years in Thailand. 

Company closed up, divorced, got depressed.. wasn't following any news and visa issues were the last thing on his mind while trying to keep a roof over his head. He received a 1 year ban. 

No previous overstay !

Edited November 20, 2016 by JerryinTH

[BritTim]

3 hours ago, bkkcanuck8 said:

 

The crackdown has (and I believe the intended to have) the effect of making sure the "fish" are forced through a net on a regular basis.  By forcing people to go through this net -- over time those that they want to catch will be caught and the number of foreign "undesirables" will be reduced.  The effect is not immediate -- but by constantly churning the waters over time there will be an effect to the positive.  It does not mean that all those that are banned for a period of time are really "bad guys" but it does send a message.  

 

The real criminal elements are here on "proper" visas, and were never overstaying in the first place. The only criminals being flushed out are a few "illegal" English teachers, and some sad alcoholics.

[The man from udon]

On 19/11/2016 at 3:45 AM, owenm said:

I know a group of overstayers in Bangkok, and between the 4 of them, have an accumulation of more than 20 years total overstay. A Brit with 13 yrs, a Finnish with 9 yrs, and other 2 other Brits on 4 yrs and 1 yr.  One has major mental issues, another an admitted alcoholic whose family has given up on him because of big sums of money sent to him on numerous occasions, so he can arrange for Emergency Travel Document, passport expired, a O/W ticket to UK and funds to cover his 20K baht fine at Imm. On all occasions the money has been squandered on alcohol and gone within weeks. 2 have no family support and are living on the street and relying on locals generosity for food and drink. What should I do, because I'm feeling  guilty about their situation? Do I dob them in, giving them free lodgings at the Imm. Detention Center until their families can pay for all associated costs to get them home? Or do I sit blindly by and do nothing? The BIB can be either stupid or blind and ignore or turn a blind eye to these long overstayers, who maybe lucky enough to shower weekly, and wash their clothes fortnightly.  

No sympathy for them mate.people like myself have to obey the rules and keep 800,000b stuck in the bank to stay here.whatever their problems are could be sorted out in their home countries.i would just leave it and forget about helping someone who don't want to help themselve.if it wasn't for people who you have mentioned maybe the immigration might of lightened up on tourists and I wouldn't have to have a mass of my savings sat dormant in a bank until I die.good guys in,bad guys out as far as I'm concerned.

[billd766]

On 19/11/2016 at 8:20 AM, Deepinthailand said:

I am sat talking with a good friend here in Pattaya. He told me his story which I have to say I had no idea about untill 15 mins ago. I am not saying he was right or wrong just relaying his story. 

Last month Oct 20th to be exact he trotted off to Suvarnabhumi Airport to get a flight to Hon Kong. he was on a 5 year yes 5 year overstay. He says he was obviously pulled and questioned for a period of time but it was all done with his words with professionalism. he payed his fine and slipped the IO 15000 bht. He recived his passport back with the exit stamp in. boarded his plane in the fullness of time. Returned to Thailand on Oct 25th. no questions asked at immigration at Suvarnabhumi on return he did in fact get a 30 day visa exempt 

So it seems yes it's selective and greasing the wheels still works.

Right or wrong is not for me to judge.

He in future will use Savanakhet to get non o multi entry based on marriage.

 

If he will use Savanakhet in future to get non o multi entry based on marriage could I ask why he did not do so in the 5 years previous overstay period?

[Deepinthailand]

41 minutes ago, billd766 said:

 

If he will use Savanakhet in future to get non o multi entry based on marriage could I ask why he did not do so in the 5 years previous overstay period?

No idea and I didn't ask him. knowing the man there would have been a good reason(s). But it's not my buisness. He's a good friend and a good man is all I can say about him. I did tell him I would post his story on here he just laughed and said things that are not repeatable on here but I had to agree with him. He is no l9nger a member on here (well I suppose he is as we have no way to cancel membership other than staying signed out.

[Deepinthailand]

1 hour ago, The man from udon said:

No sympathy for them mate.people like myself have to obey the rules and keep 800,000b stuck in the bank to stay here.whatever their problems are could be sorted out in their home countries.i would just leave it and forget about helping someone who don't want to help themselve.if it wasn't for people who you have mentioned maybe the immigration might of lightened up on tourists and I wouldn't have to have a mass of my savings sat dormant in a bank until I die.good guys in,bad guys out as far as I'm concerned.

It's not people on overstay who make you keep the money in the bank it's happened for a long time. You don't have to leave it there all the time only 3 months before your annual visits for a retirement extension the other 9 months it could be put to better use by yourself. immigration don't come down on Tourist  (holiday makers real tourists) rather they enforce the law for longer  term stayers.  I am still yet to get or see real comformation (not hearsay real substantiated evidence) that overstayers make anything any worse for other people.

[Ian1980]

I know a lot of so called"legal"that they are worst than overstayers.

[The man from udon]

21 hours ago, Deepinthailand said:

No idea and I didn't ask him. knowing the man there would have been a good reason(s). But it's not my buisness. He's a good friend and a good man is all I can say about him. I did tell him I would post his story on here he just laughed and said things that are not repeatable on here but I had to agree with him. He is no l9nger a member on here (well I suppose he is as we have no way to cancel membership other than staying signed out.

You say he's a good friend and good man.if he was a good friend you would of heard this story of 5 yrs overstay before now.as for good man,someone who stays in a country as a illegal immigrant and greases the had of corrupt officials is exactly what the Thai government are trying to fight.theres no good reason for 5 yrs overstay.its just taking the pee out of the system.

[The man from udon]

On 19/11/2016 at 9:12 AM, thai3 said:

 

Dob them in and do them a favor.

You nearly got that right but it's more like..dob them in and do all of us a favour.we don't need them here as much as the Thais don't.thank god we have the fear of the immigration detention centre or else the land would be flooded with overstayers.

[Deepinthailand]

9 hours ago, The man from udon said:

You say he's a good friend and good man.if he was a good friend you would of heard this story of 5 yrs overstay before now.as for good man,someone who stays in a country as a illegal immigrant and greases the had of corrupt officials is exactly what the Thai government are trying to fight.theres no good reason for 5 yrs overstay.its just taking the pee out of the system.

Well as you don't know the man you can think as you please. (Funny we both said it would bring out the whiter than white brigade). I stand by what I wrote. illegal maybe not the crime of the century as holy than tho joes on here would have people belive.. As for the bung I really don't care if it works good and as it has worked im pleased for him and his family. It's called playing the system like they play us. plus I really don't care if you like it or not.

[BritTim]

*Removed post edited out*

 

The real reason why people often drift into overstay is, at least partly, due to mental illness. Family problems pushing someone into acute depression can be an example of this. Since you have never experienced anything like this, and completely lack empathy, you cannot appreciate how this can happen to someone.

 

Very likely, you obey the immigration rules here because it is pretty easy for you to do so, and you do not want to risk the consequences of failing to do so.

 

I know you feel that someone with a girlfriend and kid here and severely limited income should just abandon them and return to home country, but, for some, their family is more important than some rules created by the elite of an artificial construct, the nation state. I am sorry that such individuals' twisted priorities are so upsetting to your black and white view of the world. However, I personally am not ready to condemn someone I do not know, and without knowing anything of his circumstances.

[bkkcanuck8]

53 minutes ago, BritTim said:

 

The real reason why people often drift into overstay is, at least partly, due to mental illness. Family problems pushing someone into acute depression can be an example of this.

That may be the case with some people, but the majority likely just made a calculated decision.  Thai Immigration at the time did not take the issue seriously enough until recently with the change on punishment -- so there is no reason why anyone should take it seriously at the time either.   It was seen as purely an administrative violation with little downside other than spending a few uncomfortable days in lockup if you were unfortunate enough to have been swept up in an immigration sweep.... and these immigration sweeps were often aimed at neighbouring countries citizens or those that came from non-industrialized countries such as from Africa.  It is Thailand's rules it is Thailands way and it is up to the country to determine what is a serious infraction or not.... not us peanuts in the gallery.  

 

I would however not recommend anyone overstay these days....  unless being prohibited entry in the future is acceptable....