Donald J Trump sees Climate change as a Chinese hoax

[Si Thea01]

38 minutes ago, ClutchClark said:

 

Well I don't think the US population is exploding so its probably not going to have much of an impact. 

 

Too bad Planned Parenthood has such a Liberal agenda since it positions itself to suffer under a Republican Admin.

 

And before I fall under attack, I am not a pro-lifer. Its a nice thought but it doesn't really apply to the real world, IMO.

 

I don't consider the point of conception to be a baby. Its just a couple of cells.

 

 

 

It's such a sad state of affairs that one has to explain himself when offering an opinion in order that he does not come under attack.  There's no debate anymore, it seems it's either my way or the highway.  

[ilostmypassword]

48 minutes ago, ClutchClark said:

 

Well I don't think the US population is exploding so its probably not going to have much of an impact. 

 

Too bad Planned Parenthood has such a Liberal agenda since it positions itself to suffer under a Republican Admin.

 

And before I fall under attack, I am not a pro-lifer. Its a nice thought but it doesn't really apply to the real world, IMO.

 

I don't consider the point of conception to be a baby. Its just a couple of cells.

 

 

what exactly is their liberal agenda?

[ClutchClark]

1 hour ago, Si Thea01 said:

 

It's such a sad state of affairs that one has to explain himself when offering an opinion in order that he does not come under attack.  There's no debate anymore, it seems it's either my way or the highway.  

 

Agreed but even my doing so still did not prevent the attack above.

 

Cheers

Edited November 24, 2016 by ClutchClark

[ClutchClark]

1 hour ago, ilostmypassword said:

what exactly is their liberal agenda?

 

Ilostmypassword,

 

I don't know how else to say this but our relationship is just not doing it for me.

 

I think its time you gave me some space.

 

Its not you, its me.

Edited November 24, 2016 by ClutchClark

[ilostmypassword]

11 minutes ago, ClutchClark said:

 

Morch,

 

I don't know how else to say this but our relationship is just not doing it for me.

 

I think its time you gave me some space.

 

Its not you, its me.

Well,that's a relief. I thought for a moment that you were referring to me.

On the very slim slim slim chance that it was me you were referring to, I advise you to look up the word "truthiness." It's a thing your comments are riddled with.

Edited November 24, 2016 by ilostmypassword

[boomerangutang]

10 hours ago, Ahab said:

Storms, flooding, sea level rise, and erosion have been occurring forever. The temperature of the earth has been higher and lower than it is currently,   and these changes occurred before man started adding CO2 to the atmosphere. What caused these changes? The more profound damage from storms is because the coastal regions are more developed and populated than before (New Orleans, Florida, etc.), the number of severe storms has not increased even a little bit (in the Atlantic, and I doubt it is any different in the Pacific outside of El Nino). These are natural processes that are being hyped to support the religion of global warming. In my humble opinion.

 

Read again the opening sentence of my quote you're responding to.  Here it is: "CC only matters for humans in the context of now and near future.  It matters not when compared to earlier geologic times (past ice ages, etc)."

 

          No one is disputing the fact there've been wild swings in climate - during the Earth's history.  The main reason GW is important now, is how it affects humans.  Humans care about humans.  They care most about their families and secondarily, about people nearby who are similar in ethnicity, religion, physical features, etc.  Thirdly, people care about most everyone else, except their enemies (Isis, Nazis, rapists, etc).

 

            People have become wildly successful in breeding and taking up residence in every possible niche.  Partly for that reason, even a slight change in temp trends and/or sea level rises and/or desertification, will affect large numbers of impoverished people.  Putting economics aside for a moment, the people who will get most adversely affected by GW are poor people who feel stuck where they are.  When their villages get flooded, or covered in sand, ....and they can't grow crops or put roofs over their heads, then misery ensues.  Already lots of that is happening.  In the coming years, much more will be happening.  Human migrations are one of the most stark testaments to how easily groups of people can become destitute/miserable - and thereby travel in desperation to find a better place to survive and have babies.

 

          If GW is slowed, as participants in the Paris Accords are hoping will happen, then mass suffering will be less severe, and mass migrations will be less of a factor.  With Trump in power, GW problems take a back seat.  If you look at any of the migrations going on now, you'll see they have two basic factors (among hundreds of other issues) at their core:  too many people, and too few resources.  

 

            Our species has been migrating for tens of thousands of years.   However, the magnitude and numbers have never been hear as profound as we're seeing now.  Coming years will see the numbers climbing astronomically.    It's a good thing a nice country like NZ is comprised of islands surrounded by large bodies of water.   If NZ were near N.Africa or Bangladesh, it would be swarmed with thousands of desperate people per week.  .....and ten years from now, make that tens of thousands per week.

 

 

Edited November 24, 2016 by boomerangutang

[ClutchClark]

2 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

Well,that's a relief. I thought for a moment that you were referring to me.

 

I get you two confused.

 

I am hoping we can end this amicably so I won't have to actually Jing you.

 

[ilostmypassword]

18 minutes ago, ClutchClark said:

 

I get you two confused.

 

I am hoping we can end this amicably so I won't have to actually Jing you.

 

This is a forum.  When I see opinions that I disagree with I will address them. I don't need to use the ignore setting. Some people, like most of the climate change deniers and those who dismiss sources like the NY Times in favor of Breitbart.com, I simply ignore on my own.  So feel free to jing me. And congratulations on coining a new word. Adios!

[Si Thea01]

29 minutes ago, ClutchClark said:

 

I get you two confused.

 

I am hoping we can end this amicably so I won't have to actually Jing you.

 

 Really clutch, why bother.

[DavidVincent]

16 hours ago, ClutchClark said:

 

Democrats were angry at Trump for hos promises positions on issues like "Climate, torture, and especially immigration (which they called 'hateful') so why would they still be in the streets now that he is back-pedaling on these very issues and probably more? 

 

Can I ask if you have a job? How do you Democrats find so much available time to spend in the streets? 

A bit OT but I am not in the US, and wait for it....I am not even american!

Maybe they are in the streets because they want to do the same thing Trump said he would do if Clinton won the election. (there is a tweet where he tells to take the street if Clinton win, and if I remember correctly he even asked this when Obama was elected)

Also it is more than probable that some people go to work then go in the streets while people go in the street then go to work.

And to be honest from the history of any country : Progress seems to always start from the street, never from the politicians

[thaibeachlovers]

5 hours ago, Linzz said:

 

Problem is that children of the poor are their currency as well as a liability. In many poor societies the more hands for labour the greater ability for group survival, thus children are often form part of their legacy. The other factor is ignorance and/or lack of birth control. The move towards small families requires a cultural shift towards Western lifestyle and values, but I hadn't heard of the Aboriginal solution before. Interesting. 

Co operatives are the way to achieve results without needing masses of children. Unfortunately, uneducated people probably have no idea what a co op is, sigh. The future would be best served by mandatory good education, but when children are regarded at best as labour units that isn't going to happen and the cycle will perpetuate itself. It is an outright government failure in countries that allow child labour.

 

If you aren't aware of the actual practice, the aboriginal custom is whistle-cocking. Any that are interested can google it. I'm not explaining it as rather horrifying.

http://archive.spectator.co.uk/article/21st-december-1985/12/australias-human-zoo

I was told about by it by an aboriginal man I used to work with.

 

[thaibeachlovers]

9 hours ago, Xircal said:

 

Sheep spending too much time in the pub then.

Shaun the Sheep would disagree with you

[thaibeachlovers]

4 hours ago, ilostmypassword said:

And how do you think family planning is going to fare under Trump?  He campaigned against Planned Parenthood. 

Ahem, he is against their abortions, as they are very into that procedure. I doubt he opposes the non abortion part, but it's probably hard to distinguish that part of PP from the abortion aspect.

I disagree fundamentally with the American right wing about abortion as I think it should be free and on demand ( probably the most effective way of rapidly reducing world population available ), as long as within first trimester.

I am not going to waste time researching, but it's probably not going to be stopped, as long as federal funds are not used to pay for it.

[thaibeachlovers]

2 hours ago, Si Thea01 said:

 

It's such a sad state of affairs that one has to explain himself when offering an opinion in order that he does not come under attack.  There's no debate anymore, it seems it's either my way or the highway.  

Even more, I don't post a lot of stuff, or I delete it asap after posting, because the result makes it pointless, no matter how passionately I may feel about that content, or how much time I spend writing it.

[Strange]

2 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I am not going to waste time researching, but it's probably not going to be stopped, as long as federal funds are not used to pay for it.

 

Or its written into the ACA as a mandate and everyone is forced to pay for it through insurance rates. 

 

Off topic I know.

[thaibeachlovers]

2 hours ago, ilostmypassword said:

what exactly is their liberal agenda?

Not sure but probably abortion on demand.

[JDGRUEN]

Climate Alarmists never cease with their twisted logic.  The Climate is changing - and has ever since the first elements of an Earth atmosphere was created billions of years ago... The Earth's Climate is a never ending continuum where we have periods of changes in percentages of gases - plus warming and cooling.   There is absolutely nothing new about this phenomena.  The cycles in Earth's climate most likely reflects cycles in the various ebbs and flows in the cycle of the Sun and the Earth's experiences of the last 100 -200 - 300 years are no different.  If any hard climate alarmist cares to research this with an open mind you will find believable evidence.   But Climate Alarmist and Open Mind are Oxymoronic.   Global Warming got changed to Climate Change as the alarm bell for the Climate Alarmist when proof that global warming is a known long term cycle and the current one ended some 15-18 years ago.  So a new crisis had to be invented -- therefore the alarmist invented Climate Change as a new phenomenon.   One thing about the Climate Alarmists (a.k.a. Natural Occurrence Deniers  - NODs) is that they are persistent.   The NODs ignore and deny newly published Solar studies of the ebbs and tides of the Sun cycles that among other things increases and decreases cosmic ray showers - which in turn have direct effects on mirco droplet formation that is in turn involved in Earth's cloud cover.  Cloud cover in turn affects global temperatures, rain fall and related things..   

 

The case for Climate Alarming fell apart not only when some of the statistical models showed tampering of data, horribly imprecisely collected temperature data and a crescendo of questionable reports to get in on the act... such as about 10 years ago when an Indian scientist declared that the glaciers in the Himalayas were retreating ... only to have to later state that he made it all up.  And  OH the Hugh Manatee of it all polar bears dying off, ice formations retreating and melting -- all shown to be a fair bit faulty embellishments and exaggerations.

 

Then when it became quite noticeable that Global Warming and Climate Change were nothing more than a bandwagon to create Global Wealth Redistribution under another name - the wheels began to fall off the Climate Alarmist Wagon ... And most of all the Climate Alarmists Wagon became a wreck in the ditch when it became obvious that this Cause Celebre was nothing more than another manifestation of the LEFTIST Control Freak Aberrations to FORCE people to believe the unbelievable and THREATEN those who are Free Speech Advocates who refuse to join the broken Climate Bandwagon with being ostracized, fined, fired from their jobs or even jailed.   

But keep NODDING NODs -- You Natural Occurrence Deniers the natural occurrences of our solar system far outweigh any human contribution to the onward march of natural climate change.   And no amount of money thrown at this mislabeled happening will do a damned thing to stop it. 

CLIMATE CONTROL FREAKS -- just go away ... we're on to you 

[thaibeachlovers]

17 minutes ago, JDGRUEN said:

. 

CLIMATE CONTROL FREAKS -- just go away ... we're on to you 

edited for brevity.

 

You are wasting your time. The C C ( a stupidity in itself, as if a natural cycle is an abnormality ) proponents are true believers, and will never be convinced because, in my opinion, they think planet earth is about THEM!!!!!!!!

Planet earth is about itself, nothing more or less, and humans are just another phase in the billions of years between when the sun and planets were evolved from a cloud of gas and when the sun will expand and consume everything before dying. No doubt dinosaurs thought ( if they could ) that the planet was about them, too.

 

I don't blame anyone for being fearful, but in the long run it will make not the slightest difference in the outcome.

Personally, I'm just trying to enjoy it as much as possible before departing to wherever consciousness goes after the biological machine that carries me around ceases to function.

[car720]

23 hours ago, Catoni said:

 

      You must be a pretty dim bulb to not see that Global Warming/Climate Change Alarmism is part of a politico-economic agenda to bring down western capitalist industrialised nations.    But as far as left and right. ? ?    I hate the far right wing extremist idiots as much as I hate the far left wing extremist idiots.  BOTH of them are dangerous to freedom and liberty.  Both of them lead to dictatorship of one form or another.          Here are some quotes for you:    

 

   Quote: "One has to free oneself from the illusion that international climate policy is environmental policy. This has almost nothing to do with the environmental policy anymore...We redistribute de facto the world’s wealth by climate policy,"
- Ottmar Edenhofer, co-chair U.N. Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change working group on Mitigation of Climate Change from 2008 to 2015.

"In searching for a new enemy to unite us, we came up with the idea that pollution, the threat of global warming, water shortages, famine and the like would fit the bill....All these dangers are caused by human intervention....and thus the “real enemy, then, is humanity itself....believe humanity requires a common motivation, namely a common adversary in order to realize world government. It does not matter if this common enemy is “a real one or….one invented for the purpose."
Club of Rome

"The objective, clearly enunciated by the leaders of UNCED, is to bring about a change in the present system of independent nations. The future is to be World Government with central planning by the United Nations. Fear of environmental crises - whether real or not - is expected to lead to – compliance”
Dixy Lee Ray, former liberal Democrat governor of State of Washington, U.S.

"The emerging 'environmentalization' of our civilization and the need for vigorous action in the interest of the entire global community will inevitably have multiple political consequences. Perhaps the most important of them will be a gradual change in the status of the United Nations. Inevitably, it must assume some aspects of a world government." 
Mikhail Gorbachev, former leader of U.S.S.R.

"Regionalism must precede globalism. We foresee a seamless system of governance from local communities, individual states, regional unions and up through to the United Nations itself."
UN's Commission on Global Governance

“I had the privilege of being fired by Al Gore, since I refused to go along with his alarmism....I have spent a long research career studying physics that is closely related to the greenhouse effect....Fears about man-made global warming are unwarranted and are not based on good science. The earth's climate is changing now, as it always has. There is no evidence that the changes differ in any qualitative way from those of the past.”

           "All the evidence I see is that the current warming of the climate is just like past warmings. In fact, it’s not as much as past warmings yet, and it probably has little to do with carbon dioxide, just like past warmings had little to do with carbon dioxide,"

Dr. Will Happer, Cyrus Fogg Brackett Professor of Physics at Princeton University,  former Director of Energy Research at the Department of Energy, fellow of the American Physical Society and the American Association for the Advancement of Science,  member of the National Academy of Sciences, Alfred P. Sloan fellowship in 1966,  Alexander von Humboldt award in 1976, the Herbert P.Broida Prize in 1997, the Davisson-Germer prize and the Thomas Alva Edison patent award in 2000.

 

"More Future, Less Capitalism",   "Capitalism Isn't Working,  Support Socialism", "Smash Capitalism, End Colonialism",  "Capitalism Isn't Working, It's Killing the Planet"    "Capitalism is Destroying the Planet:  Fight for a Socialist Future by International Socialist Organization: SOCIALISTWORKER.ORG"      signs at a global warming/climate change conference in Oakland, California 2014

We must keep the Alarm level high. We must keep people scared that there is a big problem. The reward for solving the problem, or for there not really being a problem, is to get your funding cut, to lose political influence, and to lose tenure.

 

Obviously you don't live in China and I have met so many of these men with lots of titles after there name and have yet to be impressed except by the cocoon that they live in.

[ilostmypassword]

51 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

edited for brevity.

 

You are wasting your time. The C C ( a stupidity in itself, as if a natural cycle is an abnormality ) proponents are true believers, and will never be convinced because, in my opinion, they think planet earth is about THEM!!!!!!!!

Planet earth is about itself, nothing more or less, and humans are just another phase in the billions of years between when the sun and planets were evolved from a cloud of gas and when the sun will expand and consume everything before dying. No doubt dinosaurs thought ( if they could ) that the planet was about them, too.

 

I don't blame anyone for being fearful, but in the long run it will make not the slightest difference in the outcome.

Personally, I'm just trying to enjoy it as much as possible before departing to wherever consciousness goes after the biological machine that carries me around ceases to function.

And not just climate. What about excretions? Humans think waste products are all about them too. Don't they realize that animals have been excreting for millions of years. Yet humans do self centered stuff like sanitary plumbing and protecting sources of drinking water. I used to believe in that stuff. And other weird stuff humans do like fighting diseases. Don't they know that bacteris and viruses have been on planet earth even before there were animals. Thanks for setting me straight. 

[thaibeachlovers]

23 hours ago, Catoni said:

 

 

"More Future, Less Capitalism",   "Capitalism Isn't Working,  Support Socialism", "Smash Capitalism, End Colonialism",  "Capitalism Isn't Working, It's Killing the Planet"    "Capitalism is Destroying the Planet:  Fight for a Socialist Future by International Socialist Organization: SOCIALISTWORKER.ORG"      signs at a global warming/climate change conference in Oakland, California 2014



edited for brevity

I wish you would write less as I can't remember what you said at the beginning once I get to the end.

 

I only leave the bit I did to ask what that has to do with C C?

Capitalism is in fact destroying the planet as we know it, and is a horrible system designed to enrich a few at the expense of the rest.

However, the International Socialist Organization is probably just as bad

 

I'd love to see all the political "isms" banished from decent society.

Edited November 24, 2016 by thaibeachlovers

[thaibeachlovers]

4 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

And not just climate. What about excretions? Humans think waste products are all about them too. Don't they realize that animals have been excreting for millions of years. Yet humans do self centered stuff like sanitary plumbing and protecting sources of drinking water. I used to believe in that stuff. And other weird stuff humans do like fighting diseases. Don't they know that bacteris and viruses have been on planet earth even before there were animals. Thanks for setting me straight. 

Someone obviously failed to understand the message. Never mind, I'll go have a nice cup of tea.

 

Me ->

[maewang99]

the Hansen study last April wasn't about grandchildren... 2050.  that ain't grandchildren... and for the other stuff.... don't ever forget there is a 10 to 40 year lag between Co2 emissions (7.5 billion people using coal, gas, shale, cars, cement factories, airplanes, ships etc.) and it's climate effect because of how the oceans work.   John Kerry, Al Gore, Warren Buffett, Elon Musk were all "optimistic" and toning it down for politics.  The real deal is very different.

for local yokals the Hansen study, and how fast most of Larsen B went (3 weeks) might want to leave ya thinking about cooking gas... cause everybody switching to charcoal won't do it.  especially if we have new "guests" at the same time that happens, from Dhaka and Bangkok.

Edited November 24, 2016 by maewang99

[boomerangutang]

Deniers seem to have a problem with time frames.  Let me try to make it simple enough that even they might understand:

 

Imagine there's a nice clean lake.  Small tribes of humans have been living along its shores for millenia, and things are pretty good.   Then, there's a population explosion.  Whereas for thousands of years, there were dozens of people residing around the lake, catching fish, peeing and pooping in the lake, .....within 50 years , there are now thousands of people trying to catch fish and dumping tons of trash into the lake.

 

The lake would soon be fished out and too polluted to be of any use.

 

If you can't see the comparison with the current CC/GW issue, then I'll try to make it clear:

 

Just as climate has been changing for hundreds of millions of years (not one person denies there have been climate changes since the moon formed), the lake provided food for the relatively few people who resided nearby.   Similarly, when the lake region became overpopulated with people, then the lake became problematic.

 

IT'S THE CURRENT SITUATION AND NEAR FUTURE WHICH ARE RELATED TO CC/GW IMPACT ON HUMANS.  Try to understand, even if it's a strain on your brain, that the tumultuous weather changes of the past 3 billion years are not relevant to the discussion.  

[JDGRUEN]

Trump plans to Scrap NASA Climate Research --- in crackdown on Politicized Science

--- GO TRUMP 

 

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trump-to-scrap-nasa-climate-research-in-crackdown-on-‘politicized-science’/ar-AAkE8hm?li=BBmkt5R&ocid=spartanntp

 

 

 

 

[thaibeachlovers]

6 hours ago, boomerangutang said:

Deniers seem to have a problem with time frames.  Let me try to make it simple enough that even they might understand:

 

Imagine there's a nice clean lake.  Small tribes of humans have been living along its shores for millenia, and things are pretty good.   Then, there's a population explosion.  Whereas for thousands of years, there were dozens of people residing around the lake, catching fish, peeing and pooping in the lake, .....within 50 years , there are now thousands of people trying to catch fish and dumping tons of trash into the lake.

 

The lake would soon be fished out and too polluted to be of any use.

 

If you can't see the comparison with the current CC/GW issue, then I'll try to make it clear:

 

Just as climate has been changing for hundreds of millions of years (not one person denies there have been climate changes since the moon formed), the lake provided food for the relatively few people who resided nearby.   Similarly, when the lake region became overpopulated with people, then the lake became problematic.

 

IT'S THE CURRENT SITUATION AND NEAR FUTURE WHICH ARE RELATED TO CC/GW IMPACT ON HUMANS.  Try to understand, even if it's a strain on your brain, that the tumultuous weather changes of the past 3 billion years are not relevant to the discussion.  

Actually, I don't have a problem saying that there is a problem. I just maintain that no one can solve it.

What the politicians are doing is rearranging the deckchairs on the Titanic as it sinks.

[MajarTheLion]

I see it as an international hoax. When the powers that be, who tell the rest of us how we need to change our lifestyles, start cutting back on traveling around on private jets, I'll start paying attention.

 

Until then, let's call it what it is: a political activist movement designed to accumulate more powers of taxation and wealth confiscation.

 

That said, of course we should be good stewards of the planet.

[Grouse]

17 hours ago, Si Thea01 said:

 

it was a tongue and cheek comment directed at a couple of others. I didn't expect a question from someone to whom it was not directed. 

Sorry, over my head ?

[Grouse]

I don't think it is possible to have a rational debate on here.

 

The flat Earth, creationists will not be swayed by facts

 

I have demonstrated in earlier posts that there is s direct correlation between atmospheric CO2 levels and temperature

 

I have demonstrated that there are indeed historical cycles with about a 100,000 year period.

 

I have demonstrated that current CO2 levels are off scale

 

This IS due to several human activities.

 

There are several ways forward and all these could fuel a manufacturing boom

 

Investing in renewables such as PV cells, direct solar, tidal, wind power, hydro electric

 

Use nuclear for base load

 

Improve insulation

 

Use more efficient machines such as heat pumps, LEDs, inverter control.

 

Stop deforestation

 

Plant more forests

 

Develop and install carbon sequestration

 

Invest in smart grids

 

Develop long range, low loss transmission lines to transfer electrical power from equatorial areas to the temperate zones

 

BUT the fools don't understand this stuff.

 

Electric cars are the way to go!

 

Burning coal is so passé ?

[Si Thea01]

10 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Even more, I don't post a lot of stuff, or I delete it asap after posting, because the result makes it pointless, no matter how passionately I may feel about that content, or how much time I spend writing it.

 

Sometime it's not really worth all the drama.  Maybe everyone should just take a deep breath, relax and get back to debating instead of name calling, which many of us have been guilty of, some more than others.