For Trump and GOP, 'Obamacare' repeal is complex and risky

[beechguy]

20 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

So, you're working with a company that doesn't provide you with insurance? If your rates have risen, that's probably because you make enough money to put you out of the subsidy range. And ifyou had a preexisting condition?  How would you get coverage? But your kind of argument, is, of course, nonsense. Arguing from your own individual case about a system that covers millions and millions is ridiculous and just a pretext to bloviate. Moreover, how do you know what your premiums would be if there were no Obamacare?  Do you think that would have stayed the same over the past several years?

And of course, I'd like to look up the particulars of your case but I can't. And you know why that is?  Because your're anonymous and your data is inaccessible. Arguing from the alleged facts of your case is just plain laziness.

The first thing is, I'm not ignorant or a liar, and I did not just argue the facts of my case, multiply it by millions. I looked at the situation that I was going to be dealing with, and decided to take a position where I could have insurance provided by an employer, and I'm well aware of the premium cost, and the increases. I do not have a preexisting condition, but I come from a state that had a program that allowed coverage for those that did, and for low income people. That program got destroyed by Obamacare! I don't understand why so many of you, are willing to accept unfinished, substandard work.

 Again, come back when you have a clue.

Edited January 4, 2017 by beechguy

[ilostmypassword]

37 minutes ago, beechguy said:

The first thing is, I'm not ignorant or a liar, and I did not just argue the facts of my case, multiply it by millions. I looked at the situation that I was going to be dealing with, and decided to take a position where I could have insurance provided by an employer, and I'm well aware of the premium cost, and the increases. I do not have a preexisting condition, but I come from a state that had a program that allowed coverage for those that did, and for low income people. That program got destroyed by Obamacare! I don't understand why so many of you, are willing to accept unfinished, substandard work.

 Again, come back when you have a clue.

So, you're complaining about the cost of insurance as a consumer, but the insurance you're using is from your employer?  So how is it that you can claim you "see it as a consumer." No, if you're seeing it at all, you're seeing it as a bystander.  As for states that provided coverage for those with pre-existing conditions, what state is that.  Because every state that i know of that does this charges very very very high rates for this. Come on, here is a piece of data you can provide that can be independently verified.

[beechguy]

29 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

So, you're complaining about the cost of insurance as a consumer, but the insurance you're using is from your employer?  So how is it that you can claim you "see it as a consumer." No, if you're seeing it at all, you're seeing it as a bystander.  As for states that provided coverage for those with pre-existing conditions, what state is that.  Because every state that i know of that does this charges very very very high rates for this. Come on, here is a piece of data you can provide that can be independently verified.

 

I pay a portion of my premium, the employer provides the remainder. I did not need it, but the state of Arkansas had a program for low income, and people with preexisting conditions. The insurance situation does affect the company I work for, so I would say no, not just a bystander. Also, one personal example, is I have a vertebrae problem in my neck, in 2008, it was easy, to get an MRI to diagnose the problem, but now I can't get another, to monitor the progress of the deterioration. My perspective is different than before though, I lived outside of the U.S. for about 15 years.

 

I do not fully blame the Democrats, the Republicans could also have done more to prevent some of these problems.

Edited January 5, 2017 by beechguy

[mfd101]

From an outsider (non-Usofan) point of view, the obvious question in all of this is: How come every other 'Western' country manages to have a working (not perfect) social welfare and health system, looking after the poor and helpless and taxing progressively the middles and the tops, but the Greatest Country in the World, the Leader of the Free World - soon to return to even greater greatness - is unable to organise even a basic system for the good of every citizen?

[Jingthing]

It appears highly likely that the republicans under the leadership of PEOTUS trump will soon actually do the dirty deed and repeal Obamacare.

Which means of course the republicans will OWN whatever absurd nothingburger they "replace" it with. 

 

So be prepared ... it's coming probably real soon:

trump "care"

 

 

Edited January 12, 2017 by Jingthing

[Luckysilk]

First step :) 

 

Make it happen and wipe every trace of Barry off the books.

 

 

Edited January 13, 2017 by Luckysilk
Image

[Jingthing]

A ray of hope?

I won't allow myself to feel any until this really shakes out. 

The drama is likely to continue for quite a while.

 

Quote

 

Obamacare Repeal Might Have Just Died Tonight

In other words, the dissenters pretend they just want to give the GOP a little more time to design its plan. But more time isn’t going to help. There’s never going to be a Republican plan. Republican leaders like McConnell promise the replacement will come soon thereafter, but people in the insurance and medical industry aren’t idiots. They know later means never.

 

 

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2017/01/obamacare-repeal-might-have-just-died-tonight.html

[Jingthing]

15 hours ago, Luckysilk said:

First step :) 

 

Make it happen and wipe every trace of Barry off the books.

 

 

 

Yeah, of course, it's so simple for the right wing ...  people with preexisting conditions that need access to health care should just go hide in a closet and die quietly. That's the ticket. 

Edited January 13, 2017 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

In the news.

Paul Ryan's town hall.

His answer is slick and smooth.

Too bad it was chock full of lies.

 

Quote

Here are the lies Paul Ryan told about Obamacare during his town hall meeting

Ryan made all these points, and more, during a town hall meeting Thursday evening aired by CNN. The hour-long session didn’t yield an explanation for Ryan’s haste to take action that could upend insurance coverage for more than 20 million Americans. It did underscore, however, that his description of and position on the law are based on misconceptions, misrepresentations and lies. 

http://www.latimes.com/business/hiltzik/la-fi-hiltzik-obamacare-ryan-townhall-20170113-story.html

Edited January 14, 2017 by Jingthing

[Credo]

The Affordable Care Act, for all it's flaws, was a major step forward for making America Great Again.   One of the biggest challenges facing the US is providing affordable medical care to the population.   Insurance companies exist to make a profit, and that they do well.   Pharmaceutical companies exist for the same reason.   Doctors and medical personal also work to earn a living.   

 

The average American family could exist better if the huge burden of medical care and insurance were lifted from their soldiers.   It is a major expense for many families and a cause for many of the financial problems, worries and concerns that people have.   

 

I don't know a single country where people don't complain to some extent about medical.   Anyone who has any doubts, can just view some of the threads about the UK's NHS.   Complain as they will, it still assures a level of care.   

 

Without the Affordable Care Act, many Americans will have no medical coverage, and the cost doesn't just go away because many of these people take advantage of emergency medical services which most hospitals are mandated to provide.   

 

 

[Jingthing]

Some facts about the DAMAGE trump is about to inflict by repealing ACA:

 

Quote

 

The magnitude of the health-care calamity Republicans are about to cause is becoming clear

 

All along, Democrats have been saying the following: Yes, the ACA has some problems, but it has also done a tremendous amount of good. So why don’t we just figure out what isn’t working, and fix those things? Republicans responded with an emphatic “NO!” They insisted that they would accept only total repeal, no matter how much destruction it caused. Well now everyone’s getting a better idea of the magnitude of that destruction. No wonder they’d rather we didn’t talk about it.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/wp/2017/01/17/the-magnitude-of-the-health-care-calamity-republicans-are-about-to-cause-is-becoming-clear/?hpid=hp_no-name_opinion-card-d%3Ahomepage%2Fstory&utm_term=.7e2cc0f7f816

[Jingthing]

Anatomy of (yet another) trump SCAM in the making:

Quote

 

Trump’s Obamacare replacement will be a scam. Here’s how Democrats can expose it.

 

Now, for various reasons, Republicans just don’t believe health reform should guarantee coverage in the manner that the ACA does. And that’s fine — that’s their philosophical view. But the point is that Trump and his advisers are trying to obscure this. Trump does not want to be the guy who kicked millions off insurance. But it appears congressional Republicans philosophically cannot support anything that does not do this.  

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/wp/2017/01/18/trumps-obamacare-replacement-will-be-a-scam-heres-how-democrats-can-expose-it/?hpid=hp_no-name_opinion-card-f%3Ahomepage%2Fstory&utm_term=.7463246e4a41

[Jingthing]

It's starting to get REAL.

Elections have consequences. DEADLY ones.

 

Quote

 

Repealing the Affordable Care Act will kill more than 43,000 people annually

The impact of Republicans' war on Obamacare is likely to be worse than anyone expects.

 

 

The headline says it.

The awesome power of a president ... life and DEATH stuff.

 

To wit:

 

Quote

With executive order, Trump tosses a ‘bomb’ into fragile health insurance markets

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/with-executive-order-trump-tosses-a-bomb-into-fragile-health-insurance-markets/2017/01/22/1afb3500-e046-11e6-ad42-f3375f271c9c_story.html?hpid=hp_hp-top-table-main_acanext-124pm%3Ahomepage%2Fstory&utm_term=.83ef0863d3fb

 

Edited January 23, 2017 by Jingthing

[ilostmypassword]

I don't know why everybody is so concerned.  Trump already has a plan. He said a few days ago that the "finishing strokes" were being put on it.  He also said that it was going to "insure everybody." So relax, everyone, the problem is solved. We have Donald Trump's word for it.

[Jingthing]

Five part debate on the future of the ACA, Bernie Sanders vs. Ted Cruz.

 

Part one. Other parts follow when you watch it. 

 

 

[mfd101]

I gather that many people who voted for Trump don't understand that 'Obamacare' and the ACA are the same thing. Aren't they in for a shock!

[ilostmypassword]

On 1/5/2017 at 6:39 AM, beechguy said:

The first thing is, I'm not ignorant or a liar, and I did not just argue the facts of my case, multiply it by millions. I looked at the situation that I was going to be dealing with, and decided to take a position where I could have insurance provided by an employer, and I'm well aware of the premium cost, and the increases. I do not have a preexisting condition, but I come from a state that had a program that allowed coverage for those that did, and for low income people. That program got destroyed by Obamacare! I don't understand why so many of you, are willing to accept unfinished, substandard work.

 Again, come back when you have a clue.

What state was that. Because in every report I've seen of states that offered coverage for pre-existing conditions, the program was massively inadequate.  So please, let me know the state and I'll see what I can find.

[beechguy]

17 hours ago, ilostmypassword said:

What state was that. Because in every report I've seen of states that offered coverage for pre-existing conditions, the program was massively inadequate.  So please, let me know the state and I'll see what I can find.

Arkansas. I didn't check into those, because I didn't need them.

 

I did choose to go back to work, where the company pays part of the premium, and the deductible is $750 per year. The options I had, was choose a policy that was going to cost me over $565 per month, and $6500 deductible. Before Obamacare, I was paying less than that, for an entire family, that covered all of us, even when I was working overseas.

 

The argument, is not if something needed to be done, but why are so many, willing to accept, such a half assed effort, for a plan, that Pelosi said they would have to vote for it, to know what's in it. She kept trying to push that it was affordable, but even if the lower income people get assistance on premiums, they are facing office visits that cost $90 and up. I won't say it's any worse, but there are still plenty of people, clogging the Emergency Rooms. Also, I work with an air ambulance, and I haven't heard very many, if any,  positive comments from the medical staff.

Edited February 12, 2017 by beechguy

[beechguy]

18 hours ago, ilostmypassword said:

What state was that. Because in every report I've seen of states that offered coverage for pre-existing conditions, the program was massively inadequate.  So please, let me know the state and I'll see what I can find.

I should have known. I had already told you what state, Jan. 5th. That's why I don't waste too much time on here, arguing with people that can't pay attention.

 

At this point, you're probably just pissed off that Trump is in Office, and aren't going to accept anything, that doesn't fit your opinion.

 

[Jingthing]

Killing Obamacare Stalled --

 

Quote

 

The prospects of a quick Obamacare repeal are sinking fast

 

Meanwhile, restive constituents are confronting members of Congress about the impact of a repeal. In Rep. Dave Brat’s (R-Va.) memorable phrase, “The women are in my grill no matter where I go.”

 

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/monkey-cage/wp/2017/02/19/the-prospects-of-a-quick-obamacare-repeal-are-sinking-fast/

 

[ilostmypassword]

On ‎2‎/‎13‎/‎2017 at 2:19 AM, beechguy said:

I should have known. I had already told you what state, Jan. 5th. That's why I don't waste too much time on here, arguing with people that can't pay attention.

 

At this point, you're probably just pissed off that Trump is in Office, and aren't going to accept anything, that doesn't fit your opinion.

 

Now I remember. It's just that I wasn't able back then to find anything specific about Arkansas. But there's enough out there about state high risk pools to show that they were massively underfunded and insured only a small percentage of people who needed it.

"Before the passage of the ACA, 35 states operated high-risk pools for people in the non-group market who could not get standard coverage. The performance of these pools was so anemic that their total enrollment across these states peaked at 226,615 in 2011. Perhaps surprisingly, nearly all of them excluded coverage for pre-existing conditions for a period of time–usually six months to 12 months–while providing other coverage for the enrollee."

http://kff.org/health-reform/perspective/high-risk-pools-as-fallback-for-high-cost-patients-require-new-rules/

Now maybe Arkansas was the outlier. Although wherever I looked I didn't see it mentioned. California and Indiana were singled out as doing a somewhat better - though still massively inadequate - job.

And as for Trump. Remember when he denounced the fact that, unlike private insurance companies, Medicare was forbidden to negotiate with Big Pharma over prices? Guess what? He reversed himself 180%.

After meeting with pharma lobbyists, Trump drops promise to negotiate drug prices

A lot happened in the 2016 campaign, but one of the things Donald Trump did to win the election was shift to the left on a number of key issues — promising to avoid cuts in Social Security and Medicare benefits and adopting a longstanding Democratic pledge to let Medicare negotiate bulk discounts in the price it pays for prescription drugs.

Today, after a meeting with pharmaceutical industry lobbyists and executives, he abandoned that pledge, referring to an idea he supported as recently as three weeks ago as a form of “price fixing” that would hurt “smaller, younger companies.” Instead of getting tough, Trump’s new plan is that he’s “going to be lowering taxes” and “getting rid of regulations.”

http://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/1/31/14453740/trump-medicare-prescription-drugs

 

[mike324]

On 1/5/2017 at 7:53 AM, mfd101 said:

From an outsider (non-Usofan) point of view, the obvious question in all of this is: How come every other 'Western' country manages to have a working (not perfect) social welfare and health system, looking after the poor and helpless and taxing progressively the middles and the tops, but the Greatest Country in the World, the Leader of the Free World - soon to return to even greater greatness - is unable to organise even a basic system for the good of every citizen?

 

Because the average folks in those countries are paying close to or over 40% in income taxes, whereas in the US many politicians especially the Republicans want to cut down on taxes. Therefore no tax money to provide universal healthcare.

The US can easily decrease its military spending and cover everyone, but they won't - they plan on increasing it.

[boomerangutang]

59 minutes ago, mike324 said:

Because the average folks in those countries are paying close to or over 40% in income taxes, whereas in the US many politicians especially the Republicans want to cut down on taxes. Therefore no tax money to provide universal healthcare. The US can easily decrease its military spending and cover everyone, but they won't - they plan on increasing it.

A few other reasons why Health Care reform is difficult in the US:

 

>>>   a private, Republican-style system benefits big companies (insurance, hospitals, pharma), so whatever program aids the rich, that's the program Republicans will opt for.

 

>>>  Dealing firmly with Big Pharma is sensible, particularly forcing them to bid competitively - in order to ramp down severe overpricing.  Again, another reason why Republicans can't deal with it:  it would lower costs for the little people, while lessening profits for big Republican bedfellow corporations.

 

>>>  The vast majority of Americans are unhealthy.  close to 80% are overweight.  They eat badly.  Over half do pharma drugs which debilitate people physically and mentally.  Nearly all Americans eat too much meat (gets stuck for weeks in their tubing) and eat sugar and trans-fats. Many still smoke tobacco and drink fermented sugars.  That's A BIG REASON why Americans are having such a tough time enacting health care.  There are too many overweight sick people.

 

I'm mid-60's and am outside doing physical work/play every day.  I eat reasonably and don't drink, smoke or do any type of drugs, not even pharma.  I'm an anomaly.  Yet, if I pay a high amount into a US Health Care system, it's to cover expenses for fat people who don't take care of their minds and bodies.   I have a score of American friends who are in their 50's - yet who act like debilitated 88 year olds.  Really.  Some can barely walk up a flight of stairs, and those are among the living. 

[mike324]

5 minutes ago, boomerangutang said:

A few other reasons why Health Care reform is difficult in the US:

 

>>>   a private, Republican-style system benefits big companies (insurance, hospitals, pharma), so whatever program aids the rich, that's the program Republicans will opt for.

 

>>>  Dealing firmly with Big Pharma is sensible, particularly forcing them to bid competitively - in order to ramp down severe overpricing.  Again, another reason why Republicans can't deal with it:  it would lower costs for the little people, while lessening profits for big Republican bedfellow corporations.

 

>>>  The vast majority of Americans are unhealthy.  close to 80% are overweight.  They eat badly.  Over half do pharma drugs which debilitate people physically and mentally.  Nearly all Americans eat too much meat (gets stuck for weeks in their tubing) and eat sugar and trans-fats. Many still smoke tobacco and drink fermented sugars.  That's A BIG REASON why Americans are having such a tough time enacting health care.  There are too many overweight sick people.

 

I'm mid-60's and am outside doing physical work/play every day.  I eat reasonably and don't drink, smoke or do any type of drugs, not even pharma.  I'm an anomaly.  Yet, if I pay a high amount into a US Health Care system, it's to cover expenses for fat people who don't take care of their minds and bodies.   I have a score of American friends who are in their 50's - yet who act like debilitated 88 year olds.  Really.  Some can barely walk up a flight of stairs, and those are among the living. 

I agree, the american food industry is killing its own people

[thaihome]

The GOP leadership has announced the outline of a ACA  replacement plan. Usual Ryan mishmash without any details.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/16/us/politics/affordable-care-act-congress.html

 

An opinion of what the plan with do

Ryancare: You can pay more for less 

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/19/opinion/ryancare-you-can-pay-more-for-less.html?action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=opinion-c-col-right-region&region=opinion-c-col-right-region&WT.nav=opinion-c-col-right-region

 

[iReason]

Boehner: Republicans won't repeal and replace Obamacare

He says talk in November about lightning-fast passage of a new health care framework was wildly optimistic. (Sub-title)

 

"Former House Speaker John Boehner predicted on Thursday that a full repeal and replace of Obamacare is “not going to happen.”

 

"Boehner, who resigned in 2015 amid unrest among conservatives, said at an Orlando health care conference that the idea that a repeal-and-replace plan would blitz through Congress is just “happy talk.”

 

“I started laughing,” he said. “Republicans never ever agree on health care.”

http://www.politico.com/story/2017/02/john-boehner-obamacare-republicans-235303

 

[Jingthing]

Still risky.

Still complicated.

Push is coming to shove.

trump and the republicans have got a REAL problem.

Quote

 

Republicans already think Obamacare repeal is a nightmare. It’s about to get worse.
...

And now that things are about to get specific, what had been a dangerous situation for them is about to turn into a nightmare.
 

Republicans are set to enter a new phase, in which actual bills are written, debated and possibly even voted on. It’s going to be the equivalent of sticking their heads up out the foxhole so that the other side has something to fix their sights on. If they thought this issue was hard before, they haven’t seen anything yet.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/wp/2017/03/02/republicans-already-think-obamacare-repeal-is-a-nightmare-its-about-to-get-worse/

 

[boomerangutang]

          The following article would be humorous were it not true.  Apparently, Republicans have a draft of a replacement for ACA/Obamacare.   Republicans met in a private room to review it.  A Democratic Congressman from NJ wanted to see the draft.  He searched all around.  Knocked on doors, walked from building to building.  When he met key Republican congressmen to ask about seeing their plan, the Republicans obfuscated or didn't say anything, and walked away.  

 

npr.org/sections/health-shots/2017/03/02/518185329/one-democrats-hunt-for-the-hidden-obamacare-replacement-bill

 

                   More proof, if any were needed, that Republicans in Congress, including the President and his goons, either don't know much about governing, or they purposefully hide all they can.  They should be reminded: THEY WORK FOR, AND ARE PAID BY US TAXPAYERS - TO DO THEIR JOBS!

 

                 Their job description doesn't specify hiding (or lying about) everything.

 

 

[SheungWan]

On 1/12/2017 at 10:13 PM, Jingthing said:

It appears highly likely that the republicans under the leadership of PEOTUS trump will soon actually do the dirty deed and repeal Obamacare.

Which means of course the republicans will OWN whatever absurd nothingburger they "replace" it with. 

 

So be prepared ... it's coming probably real soon:

trump "care"

 

Wiser heads might prevail in slowing down the delivery of an undercooked nothingburger,

[boomerangutang]

1 hour ago, SheungWan said:

Wiser heads might prevail in slowing down the delivery of an undercooked nothingburger,

The bad news for Trumpsters and Republicans will erupt like a lanced pustule when the Republicans' new version of ACA contributes to many Americans (mostly elderly and fat) start dying from lack of access to health care.    Trump and Bannon will need snow shovels to try and shovel out the 2 ft thick pile of BS befouling Oval Office.