US: Officers douse Dakota pipeline protesters in subfreezing weather

[webfact]

Officers douse pipeline protesters in subfreezing weather

By JAMES MacPHERSON and BLAKE NICHOLSON

 

CANNON BALL, N.D. (AP) — Authorities on Monday defended their decision to douse protesters with water during a skirmish in subfreezing weather near the Dakota Access oil pipeline, and organizers said at least 17 protesters were taken to the hospital — including some who were treated for hypothermia.

 

The clash occurred late Sunday and early Monday as protesters trying to push past a long-blocked bridge on a state highway were turned back by authorities using tear gas, rubber bullets and water hoses. One officer was injured when struck in the head with a rock. One protester was arrested.

 

Protesters and officers massed at the bridge again late Monday morning, but protesters dispersed a few hours later at the request of tribal elders after police warned the crowd that they'd identified firearms and that anyone with a weapon should leave.

 

The tribe and others oppose the 1,200-mile, four-state pipeline being built to carry oil from western North Dakota to a shipping point in Illinois because they say it threatens drinking water and cultural sites. Pipeline developer Energy Transfer Partners has said no sites have been disturbed and that the $3.8 billion pipeline will be safe.

 

The pipeline is largely complete except for the section under a Missouri River reservoir in southern North Dakota, and ETP Chief Executive Kelcy Warren said Friday the company is unwilling to reroute the project.

 

What's known as the Backwater Bridge on state Highway 1806 has been shut down for weeks because authorities say it might be unsafe due to earlier fires set by protesters. Protesters say the closed bridge near their main camp blocks emergency services, and they accuse authorities of keeping it shut down to block their access to pipeline construction sites.

 

Authorities dispute that. Additional testing is needed to make sure the bridge is safe, and that can't be done until the area is deemed safe for inspectors, said state Transportation Department spokeswoman Jamie Olson.

 

At least 17 protesters were injured severely enough to be taken to hospitals during the overnight skirmish at the bridge, said Dallas Goldtooth, an organizer with the Indigenous Environmental Network.

 

"Hypothermia, a number of head injuries from being shot with rubber bullets, one individual had a heart attack," he said.

 

Daniel Kanahele, 64, a native Hawaiian, said he was hit with tear gas, water spray and a rubber bullet in a leg, and "it took me off my feet." He was treated at the scene.

 

Although Goldtooth said a water cannon was used to douse the protesters, Morton County Sheriff Kyle Kirchmeier said only fire hoses were used. Sheriff's spokesman Rob Keller said a tactical vehicle spraying tear gas has been mistaken by some people as a water cannon.

 

Kirchmeier defended the use of water hoses, saying protesters were using aggressive tactics themselves.

 

"We're just not going to let people or protesters in large groups come in and threaten officers. That's not happening," the sheriff said.

 

Mandan Police Chief Jason Ziegler said authorities won't rule out using water again if it's deemed necessary "to maintain control and order."

 

Margaret Huang, executive director of the human rights organization Amnesty International, sent a letter to Kirchmeier on Monday saying the water tactic "risks potential injury and hypothermia." Sierra Club Executive Director Michael Brune issued a statement calling the use of water an "act of brutality" and "inhumane." Greenpeace spokeswoman Mary Sweeters called it "nothing short of horrific."

 

Protesters also were active Monday in Bismarck, about 50 miles to the north. A small group briefly blocked streets in the downtown area, and protesters later locked arms outside the police station and refused to leave. That incident resulted in 16 arrests.

 

Doors at the state Capitol, where protesters have previously demonstrated, were locked due to the protest activity in the city. Access to the building was granted only to workers with security key cards and members of the public with legitimate business, according to Highway Patrol Lt. Tom Iverson. The patrol provides security at the Capitol.

___

Associated Press writer Blake Nicholson reported from Bismarck.

 

-- © Associated Press 2016-11-22

[ClutchClark]

Big difference between "treated for hypothermia" and actually having hypothermia. 

 

The approaching winter weather will disband this bunch so enough.

 

If these people have time to spend all day protesting then couldn't they be out working?

 

Maybe we can start cutting their gov't benefits? 

 

 

[Scott]

The government benefits that you are talking about come from the rental of land, mineral rights and other accrued financial benefits that go into the government coffers and are then distributed back to some, but not all, members of the tribe.  

 

 

[ksamuiguy]

It's time to make a stand!

 

[geriatrickid]

2 hours ago, ClutchClark said:

Big difference between "treated for hypothermia" and actually having hypothermia. 

The approaching winter weather will disband this bunch so enough.

If these people have time to spend all day protesting then couldn't they be out working?

Maybe we can start cutting their gov't benefits? 

 

 

Have you made any effort to understand what they are  upset about? This pipeline crosses native land, land that was supposedly potected by treaty. The pipeline travers  vital water sources for these people. At the protest site, the pipeline is to be laid under the river and lake, which is the sole source of drinking water for these people. The pipeline sponsors have not  established how they will monitor the pipeline in respect to a leak. The minumum clean up reserve  in Iowa is only $250,000. What do you think will happen if there is a leak 10 years from now after the pipeline has changed hands a few times? Remember Love Canal? The company which polluted the area  was no longer around and there was no  company to take responsibility for the pollution. How about the  leaks all along the existing pipeline  system? Do you not realize that there has been significant damage done?  This is what the people are protesting.  

 

Where do you get off  with your racist crap of cutting government benefits? They are not on benefits. The tribal income as stated above is from royalties which are  apittance of the value of the resources taken from their lands. They are doing the only thing they can do to express their despair over their loss of their land.

 

 

 

 

[humqdpf]

6 hours ago, ClutchClark said:

Big difference between "treated for hypothermia" and actually having hypothermia. 

 

The approaching winter weather will disband this bunch so enough.

 

If these people have time to spend all day protesting then couldn't they be out working?

 

Maybe we can start cutting their gov't benefits? 

 

 

Thats great! So you would be happy to have your access across a river blocked indefinitely and to have a huge pipeline routed through your neighbourhood,? even better! And you too would like your income cut when some people in your neighbourhood protest? Better still!! Perhaps you should go back to your middle-class neighbourhood where the police do not endanger the lives of ordinary people accessing their civil rights and oil companies don't dare to route pipelines.

[helpisgood]

1 hour ago, geriatrickid said:

 

Have you made any effort to understand what they are  upset about?

 

 

 

 

 

Good point!

Just to add, I have heard on several reports that, to quote one source:

"The pipeline was originally slated to cross the Missouri river near the city of Bismarck [the capital city of the state they are in]– about 50 miles north of the current route – but was rerouted to within a mile of the Standing Rock Sioux reservation."

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/nov/14/dakota-access-pipeline-completion-delayed-army-corp-engineers-review

It seems that the citizens of Bismarck had the same concerns as the Native Americans.  Here's a story with more details:

http://abcnews.go.com/US/previously-proposed-route-dakota-access-pipeline-rejected/story?id=43274356

And, from a local news source:

"An early proposal for the Dakota Access Pipeline called for the project to cross the Missouri River north of Bismarck, but one reason that route was rejected was its potential threat to Bismarck’s water supply, documents show."  [Emphasis added.]

http://bismarcktribune.com/news/state-and-regional/pipeline-route-plan-first-called-for-crossing-north-of-bismarck/article_64d053e4-8a1a-5198-a1dd-498d386c933c.html

I am sure that the pipeline company has an opposing view, and I understand that they think the environmental impact is minimal.  Nevertheless, the Native Americans surely do, at the very least, have cause to question the construction.

 

[JKfarang]

I agree completely with all the posts so far, except the 1st one by ClutchClark.  I can only add that this story reminds me of a car bumper sticker that I saw some years ago.... a photo of 4 Native Americans from long ago in traditional clothing holding rifles and underlined with the caption "Fighting Terrorism Since 1492". 

 

Though I am a "white man", I can totally relate to and will be forever appalled by the terrible way Native Americans have been treated.  This is, unfortunately, yet another example.

[Baerboxer]

3 hours ago, geriatrickid said:

 

Have you made any effort to understand what they are  upset about? This pipeline crosses native land, land that was supposedly potected by treaty. The pipeline travers  vital water sources for these people. At the protest site, the pipeline is to be laid under the river and lake, which is the sole source of drinking water for these people. The pipeline sponsors have not  established how they will monitor the pipeline in respect to a leak. The minumum clean up reserve  in Iowa is only $250,000. What do you think will happen if there is a leak 10 years from now after the pipeline has changed hands a few times? Remember Love Canal? The company which polluted the area  was no longer around and there was no  company to take responsibility for the pollution. How about the  leaks all along the existing pipeline  system? Do you not realize that there has been significant damage done?  This is what the people are protesting.  

 

Where do you get off  with your racist crap of cutting government benefits? They are not on benefits. The tribal income as stated above is from royalties which are  apittance of the value of the resources taken from their lands. They are doing the only thing they can do to express their despair over their loss of their land.

 

 

 

 

 

Well the US government has a history of making treaties with native Americans and then ignoring them when it finds some reason to covert their land.

 

Still, at water hoses and rubber bullets. They've stopped scalping them.

[RPCVguy]

This short video from Sunday night is compelling

What is the Tribal Record on this issue?

 

Energy Transfer Partners CEO Kelcey Warren stated November 11-16-16. “I really wish for the Standing Rock Sioux that they had engaged in discussions way before they did,” he said. “I don’t think we would have been having this discussion if they did. “We could have changed the route,” Mr. Warren added. “It could have been done, but it’s too late.”

The audio file below is from a Standing Rock Tribal Council meeting with ETP/DAPL representatives that occurred September 30th 2014. A meeting that occurred before permits were submitted and more than a year before the Draft Environmental Assessment was released. A document prepared by DAPL that never mentions any of the concerns stated in this meeting, nor does it mention Standing Rock. Energy Transfer Partners assertion that they "didn't know" of our concerns is false.
 

 

►Obama had asked the company not to work within 20 miles either side of the river... and the company ignored that.
►Briefly, a US Circuit Court in DC had a restraining order on parts of that route ... and the company ignored it
►Currently there IS NO PERMIT to drill under the water - the Army Corps of Engineers has said in writing that no permit will be issued at this time.
►... and the company CEO's response is they WILL continue and complete this path
 

 

[chilli42]

7 hours ago, webfact said:

Pipeline developer Energy Transfer Partners has said no sites have been disturbed and that the $3.8 billion pipeline will be safe.

 

I don't understand what the problem is then.  What could go wrong?  It doesn't seem fair to assume that the Energy Partners pipeline in Iowa, with over 100 spills/leaks, will happen here.  Besides Energy Partners and the Orange One have close financial ties so they must be a reliable lot.

[ClutchClark]

3 minutes ago, chilli42 said:

 

I don't understand what the problem is then.  What could go wrong?  It doesn't seem fair to assume that the Energy Partners pipeline in Iowa, with over 100 spills/leaks, will happen here.  Besides Energy Partners and the Orange One have close financial ties so they must be a reliable lot.

 

Genuinely interested in the reports of the 100 spills/leaks.

 

I have surveyed quite alot of pipeline ROW out west and not seen nearly 100 spill areas after travelling atleast 1,000 miles of corridor.

 

I am not saying your claim is not possible but could be reports of small leaks in facilities or pump stations, etc.

[ClutchClark]

5 hours ago, Scott said:

The government benefits that you are talking about come from the rental of land, mineral rights and other accrued financial benefits that go into the government coffers and are then distributed back to some, but not all, members of the tribe.  

 

 

 

It was my understanding that the protest groups are not exclusively native anericans.

 

It was also my understanding that native american reservations receive substantial federal assistance in various forms throughout the US including Alaska.

 

If I am mistaken then I apologize.

[ClutchClark]

I have no desire to spread dis-information.

 

Here is a CNN article quoting a local Native resident of the nearest community to the protest site:

 

Go down to the camps, he says, and you won't see many Standing Rock Sioux.

"It irks me. People are here from all over the world," he says. "If they could come from other planets, I think they would."

http://www.cnn.com/2016/10/29/us/dakota-pipeline-standing-rock-sioux/

 

An article from the Des Moines Register also reported protests are also taking place across the country and as far away as Vermont.

 

My earlier post was not a condemnation of Native American protesters. It was an opinion that ALL protesters need to stand down. The pipeline is 98% complete and buried in Iowa. A pipeline is the safest way to transport crude oil across the USA. Have the protesters considered that their demands would result in transport by rail car and tanker which is far more prone to spill? Have they considered the billions of dollars in raw materials and energy already expended in this construction? That they want to simply abandon.

 

Meanwhile, they all get back in their cars and use crude oil products daily in their lives. Heck, protesters are flying from foreign countries to protest here. How big is that carbon footprint?

 

I hate to break it to everyone but our lifestyles in the USA and Europe are highly exploitive. Humanity cannot exist without exploitation of everything around us and our desire to live in 2,500 sq ft homes only increases our consumption no matter if you recycle your wine bottles or not. The best that we can do is mitigate that risk by incorporating the latest environmental engineering, using pipelines instead of railcars, continuing strong goverment regulation and enforcement,  requiring energy companies to use safe practices AND limit our personal highly consumptive lifestyles...like thinking nothing of flying across the globe to protest.

 

We need these resources. If we stop all development then we cease to exist. I get it. Protesting has become a really fun thing for some segments of our society. Its a party! 

Edited November 22, 2016 by ClutchClark

[thaibeachlovers]

4 hours ago, geriatrickid said:

 

Have you made any effort to understand what they are  upset about? This pipeline crosses native land, land that was supposedly potected by treaty. The pipeline travers  vital water sources for these people. At the protest site, the pipeline is to be laid under the river and lake, which is the sole source of drinking water for these people. The pipeline sponsors have not  established how they will monitor the pipeline in respect to a leak. The minumum clean up reserve  in Iowa is only $250,000. What do you think will happen if there is a leak 10 years from now after the pipeline has changed hands a few times? Remember Love Canal? The company which polluted the area  was no longer around and there was no  company to take responsibility for the pollution. How about the  leaks all along the existing pipeline  system? Do you not realize that there has been significant damage done?  This is what the people are protesting.  

 

Where do you get off  with your racist crap of cutting government benefits? They are not on benefits. The tribal income as stated above is from royalties which are  apittance of the value of the resources taken from their lands. They are doing the only thing they can do to express their despair over their loss of their land.

 

 

 

 

As I understand it the pipeline does NOT cross tribal land, and the company appears to have made every reasonable effort to accommodate concerns. Also there are many other pipelines in the same area and this pipe is in the same corridor as another pipeline.

Given that almost every protestor came by oil powered vehicles, the protests are somewhat hypocritical.

It's a hard one for me, as I sympathise with the fate of the Native Americans, but I feel that on this one they are on the wrong side. By all means insist on having automatic shut down valves in the event of a leak under the river and daily testing of the water quality, but it's not their land.

[ClutchClark]

5 hours ago, geriatrickid said:

Where do you get off  with your racist crap of cutting government benefits? They are not on benefits. The tribal income as stated above is from royalties which are  apittance of the value of the resources taken from their lands. They are doing the only thing they can do to express their despair o

 

How quickly and wrongly some people love to throw around the accusation of racism. 

 

I encourage you to do some research on this topic. I have spent over 40 hours over the past 18 months doing just that. I have worked on pipelines. I know first hand the design, permitting and construction practices. 

 

You know diddly squat. You don't even know enough to know the pipeline does not cross Native Land, it is on Private Land yet your only defense is to call me a racist. Too funny.

[RPCVguy]

30 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

As I understand it the pipeline does NOT cross tribal land, and the company appears to have made every reasonable effort to accommodate concerns. Also there are many other pipelines in the same area and this pipe is in the same corridor as another pipeline.

Given that almost every protestor came by oil powered vehicles, the protests are somewhat hypocritical.

It's a hard one for me, as I sympathise with the fate of the Native Americans, but I feel that on this one they are on the wrong side. By all means insist on having automatic shut down valves in the event of a leak under the river and daily testing of the water quality, but it's not their land.

Please then educate yourself by listening to the audio of the meeting held between the corporation and the representatives from the tribal councils. (2nd of the 3 links in my earlier comment)

It is a long meeting, but as it gets going you can hear how well the tribes had prepared and expressed their concerns  - long before the bulldozers arrived.

The land is still tribal land by the Treaty of 1851, and though the US tried to buy it off, the deal was never consummated, the money still sits in escrow - deal refused.

BLM and BIA payments to the tribes are a pittance of what those lands are worth as to how the government manages it, or what the reimbursements are.
This has been an issue long growing. This time over 300 tribal nations have sent money, supplies and people to Standing Rock to say no to taking land and probably polluting their water. (so yes, the % of Sioux are diluted when tribes from Alaska, Mexico, and even the Amazon have sent people there.)

Claims of pipeline safety to the contrary, the number of leaks is large, the existing pipeline infrastructure is aging, and this pipeline seeks to add a large volume of petroleum into one of the few regions of the nation not already heavily networked with such infrastructure.
The first article shows a map of the main pipelines, the second is just one of many reports that can be accessed once a person has a mind to look for the details.

http://www.foreffectivegov.org/blog/map-displays-five-years-oil-pipeline-spills

http://planetsave.com/2016/11/01/292-oil-spills-north-dakota-pipeline-explosion/

 

Edited November 22, 2016 by RPCVguy

[ClutchClark]

5 hours ago, humqdpf said:

Thats great! So you would be happy to have your access across a river blocked indefinitely and to have a huge pipeline routed through your neighbourhood,? even better! And you too would like your income cut when some people in your neighbourhood protest? Better still!! Perhaps you should go back to your middle-class neighbourhood where the police do not endanger the lives of ordinary people accessing their civil rights and oil companies don't dare to route pipelines.

 

I actually have a pipeline ROW across a section of my farm  

 

As for your claim of the cruelty of having it routed "through their neighborhood". The irony of that is they wanted it routed through their reservation so they could collect royalties and the decision was instead made to route it around their reservation. That is where much of the anger came from--the loss of possible income according to the last paragraph of this news article and interview with the past President of the Native American Bar Association:

 

"The Tribe was not consulted on the pipeline (another disrespect to a supposedly sovereign nation). Monette said if it had been, perhaps the state and Energy Transfer Partners could have worked with the tribe to build the pipeline through the reservation, rather than under the water supply, so that the Sioux could reap some of the tax benefits from the project. “Why should they be pure and money-less?” he asked."

 

http://time.com/money/4551726/dakota-access-pipeline-standing-rock-sioux-tribe-devastate-poorest-people/

 

 

Edited November 22, 2016 by ClutchClark

[RPCVguy]

3 minutes ago, ClutchClark said:

 

I actually have a pipeline ROW across a section of my farm  

 

As for your claim of the cruelty of having it routed "through their neighborhood". The irony of that is they wanted it routed through their reservation so they could collect royalties and the decision was instead made to route it around their reservation. That is where much of the anger came from--the loss of possible income according to the last paragraph of this news article and interview with the past President of the Native American Bar Association:

 

"The Tribe was not consulted on the pipeline (another disrespect to a supposedly sovereign nation). Monette said if it had been, perhaps the state and Energy Transfer Partners could have worked with the tribe to build the pipeline through the reservation, rather than under the water supply, so that the Sioux could reap some of the tax benefits from the project. “Why should they be pure and money-less?” he asked."

 

http://time.com/money/4551726/dakota-access-pipeline-standing-rock-sioux-tribe-devastate-poorest-people/

 

 

NO! outright wrong, perhaps an outright lie (if you are an industry troll)
Listen to the audio. Know that as early as 2008, just after the Balken fields were being accessed, the tribal councils voted to have no "Black Snake" pipeline cross their lands.

I will quote a friend who wrote of the contents of that audio record

Quote

This recording directly refutes the claims that have been made all along that Standing Rock Sioux Tribe should have raised their objections earlier and that they were the ones who didn't engage with DAPL or the Army Corps of Engineers when they had the chance. Listen to this recording from September 30, 2014 and you will hear the things that SRST told DAPL representatives, including about the land, the water, cultural and historic sites, the Army Corps' faulty process and bad history and more. That included the tribe's challenge to the Corps using the National Permit 12 Process which had been successfully challenged in court cases elsewhere. The tribe made clear early on what they were concerned about directly to DAPL. The Army Corps didn't come to the meeting - DAPL said they didn't expect them, but the tribe had been told someone would be there. The Army Corps of Engineers has been violating the actual requirements of the law that gives them permitting authority and this was pointed out in this meeting. DAPL claimed that the crude oil was 100% was for domestic use, and the DAPL representatives in this meeting said that was true, and when challenged about it, admitted reluctantly that it will be refined in the Gulf Coast and then exported. This was part of the sales job of gaining approval for this pipeline and it was basically a lie.

The claims that DAPL followed an existing pipeline and so there was no truth to the tribe's claim that there were sacred or cultural or historic sites was clarified, because it was explained that that pipeline was built a year before the federal law that gave tribes the right to consultation about these sites - there was NO consultation on that original pipeline, no identification of sites at all. This was clearly discussed in the meeting along with many other things.
The need for direct cultural and historic consultation and involvement in the inspection of the route was laid out clearly, which was consistently ignored by DAPL throughout the planning and construction. This included telling DAPL about sacred burial sites right where the confrontations have been happening, where the Morton County Sheriffs have been trampling on those sacred sites.

This meeting covers all the issues that the tribe has been claiming and DAPL and the Army Corps have been denying. You can hear all the direct reasons for the tribes opposition. It makes everything that has happened, all the violations and violence carried out by Morton County, by the State of North Dakota, and ACoE clearly in the wrong, all illegal at the level of the Constitution of the United States. This is a powerful recording and what is in it should be listened to by everyone.

 

[ClutchClark]

I am sympathetic to the plight of the Native American peoples. There is no doubt they have been subjected to 100's of years of mistreatment by the more recent European Inhabitants. If you have spent any time at all on Reservation Land you will find a culture that is completely destroyed. It is gut wrenching to see not just the poverty but the broken spirit, confidence and esteem of what was once the dominant culture of this contintent. 

 

Sadly, that era of their dominance is gone. It is past and it is not coming back. 

 

If people were really interested in the welfare of the Native Americans then they would be helping them to develop a new paradigm. They would be helping them to move beyond their sense of victimization (justified as it is) because it is continuing to cripple them in this modern world. 

 

This protest about a pipeline is not about a pipeline, it is about centuries of injustice. 

 

The pipeline is going to be built. Its already 98% complete. The protest is senseless. Why not spend all these energies on helping the Tribe move forward into the 21st Century? All of this wasted effort, money and energy should have been focused on making a positive future for these people who everyone suggests they care so much about. 

 

These protests are just fueled by anger. They are a cop out. In a month everyone will go back home and forget sbout this Tribe. Resl caring would mean investing this faux concern into long term commitment to help.

 

 

[RPCVguy]

The tribe and the movement that has been sparked into existence at Standing Rock will outlast the winter. While you may want to bring more people into the global society of consumption, I see indigenous people and lifestyles as islands of sanity and populations whose awareness of the land and how to live with less are a hope for a future when this global society falters. Whether "Limits to Growth" or historical records of why and how past civilizations collapse from their complexity  and the bull headed control of their hierarchical elite - humans seem poised to repeat the past collapse pattern on a global scale.

The tribes have a right to their land, and people there want the option to live life more simply. It is the greed of a private corporation and the political power it has accumulated and bought off that has generated this resistance. Not new in the course of human history, but not right.

Beyond being not right for the people of Standing Rock, it is adding risk by crossing the Missouri twice, with 17 million people or more using that water downstream. Other routes could have avoided any crossing.

Beyond the risk to water is the assured poor choice of investing more into carbon based fuel infrastructure (not even the cleanest sources of such fuels) as we know the CO2 and Methane/ natural gas released into the atmosphere is increasing the insulating ability of the atmosphere. We already see $Billions of expenses annually from worsening storms, droughts and floods of climate change. This last aspect is morally wrong for all future generations. We lessen their ability to thrive on the planet because we too glorify the consumption an oil based economy enabled. It will be a short period , probably already seeing the best of years as past, though ever more people now want to have their turn. That impossibility is behind many of the struggles in countries on every continent. No leader stays in power while speaking such truths, instead our leadership elevates those most accomplished at evading reality.

[ClutchClark]

2 hours ago, RPCVguy said:

While you may want to bring more people into the global society of consumption, I see indigenous people and lifestyles as islands of sanity and populations whose awareness of the land and how to live with less are a hope for a future when this global society falters.

 

I am not bringing snyone anywhere. 

 

The thing that is keeping your noble savages the island of sanity who "live with less" is POVERTY. Abject poverty.

 

You are keeping them in poverty so they can continue to be held up by you as "the symbol of purity". 

 

If you ever actually talk to someone from the Rez, ask them if they are happy in their poverty or if they want what you have. 

 

HINT: Their high suicide rate should be answer enough.

 

BTW, the property where you live...it belongs to Native Americans who were there first and it was stolen from them. The right thing to do is give it back. Sleep on that one.

 

 

Edited November 22, 2016 by ClutchClark

[thaibeachlovers]

3 hours ago, RPCVguy said:

Please then educate yourself by listening to the audio of the meeting held between the corporation and the representatives from the tribal councils. (2nd of the 3 links in my earlier comment)

It is a long meeting, but as it gets going you can hear how well the tribes had prepared and expressed their concerns  - long before the bulldozers arrived.

The land is still tribal land by the Treaty of 1851, and though the US tried to buy it off, the deal was never consummated, the money still sits in escrow - deal refused.

BLM and BIA payments to the tribes are a pittance of what those lands are worth as to how the government manages it, or what the reimbursements are.
This has been an issue long growing. This time over 300 tribal nations have sent money, supplies and people to Standing Rock to say no to taking land and probably polluting their water. (so yes, the % of Sioux are diluted when tribes from Alaska, Mexico, and even the Amazon have sent people there.)

Claims of pipeline safety to the contrary, the number of leaks is large, the existing pipeline infrastructure is aging, and this pipeline seeks to add a large volume of petroleum into one of the few regions of the nation not already heavily networked with such infrastructure.
The first article shows a map of the main pipelines, the second is just one of many reports that can be accessed once a person has a mind to look for the details.

http://www.foreffectivegov.org/blog/map-displays-five-years-oil-pipeline-spills

http://planetsave.com/2016/11/01/292-oil-spills-north-dakota-pipeline-explosion/

 

If that is true, I have been fooled by the propaganda machine, and I apologise.

Once again the US government screws the Native Americans over.

However, I am not surprised. The US government has been screwing the Native Americans as long as there has been a government in the north American continent.

Unfortunately, money is god in the USA and I can't see the Native Americans winning against big oil. After all, every non Native American inhabitant of the US lives on land taken from the original inhabitants and I doubt any would be prepared to pay higher fuel prices to do the right thing.

[thaibeachlovers]

2 hours ago, RPCVguy said:

The tribe and the movement that has been sparked into existence at Standing Rock will outlast the winter. While you may want to bring more people into the global society of consumption, I see indigenous people and lifestyles as islands of sanity and populations whose awareness of the land and how to live with less are a hope for a future when this global society falters. Whether "Limits to Growth" or historical records of why and how past civilizations collapse from their complexity  and the bull headed control of their hierarchical elite - humans seem poised to repeat the past collapse pattern on a global scale.

The tribes have a right to their land, and people there want the option to live life more simply. It is the greed of a private corporation and the political power it has accumulated and bought off that has generated this resistance. Not new in the course of human history, but not right.

Beyond being not right for the people of Standing Rock, it is adding risk by crossing the Missouri twice, with 17 million people or more using that water downstream. Other routes could have avoided any crossing.

Beyond the risk to water is the assured poor choice of investing more into carbon based fuel infrastructure (not even the cleanest sources of such fuels) as we know the CO2 and Methane/ natural gas released into the atmosphere is increasing the insulating ability of the atmosphere. We already see $Billions of expenses annually from worsening storms, droughts and floods of climate change. This last aspect is morally wrong for all future generations. We lessen their ability to thrive on the planet because we too glorify the consumption an oil based economy enabled. It will be a short period , probably already seeing the best of years as past, though ever more people now want to have their turn. That impossibility is behind many of the struggles in countries on every continent. No leader stays in power while speaking such truths, instead our leadership elevates those most accomplished at evading reality.

IMO the thing that motivates the 1% is greed. They will do whatever it takes to keep the money and power. The government is controlled by the 1% through "contributions" to politicians.

IMO the only reason they still have a reservation is that nothing of value was found under it. May that continue.

[ClutchClark]

9 hours ago, humqdpf said:

So you would be happy to have your access across a river blocked indefinitely

 

Are you talking about the bridge that was closed because of the protesters?

 

stop protest and bridge opens.

 

See how that works?

[RPCVguy]

As with Gandhi and resisting the British by helping people collect salt ...
or ML King Jr at Selma,
... the issue is truly one of getting media to cover a story that has been poorly explained (if at all) since early August when the construction began. Very few major media outlets have covered it in any semblance of the details reported above. Even with well over a hundred people suffering from hypothermia caused by water spray that left icicles on razor wire, the majority of coverage is social media or from outside the USA. As people gain factual information as to what is being done, the illegality and police abuse that is in evidence is what is hoped will turn the tide of public opinion against allowing this project, indeed requiring the government to enforce the laws that have been broken.

Sunday night's over the top abuse of unarmed people has helped break the news media blackout. Search now and there are stories around the globe.
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/video/broken-promises-treaties-matter-standing-rock-sioux-43700387

This story I just saw for the first time is another upcoming attempt to gain enough attention that the media are revealed as corporate complicit if they don't send in teams. Hundreds of Veterans to muster at Standing Rock with the objective to reach the drill pad.

Quote

Veterans are planning a 'deployment' to Standing Rock to protest the Dakota Access Pipeline

Here then is the plan: On Dec. 4, Clark Jr. and Wood Jr., along with a group of veterans and other folks in the “bravery business,” as Wood Jr. puts it — 500 total is the goal, but they’re hoping for more — will muster at Standing Rock. The following morning they will join members of the Standing Rock Sioux tribe, including Young, for a traditional healing ceremony. With an eye toward the media, old military uniforms will be donned so that if the veterans are brutalized by the police, they are brutalized not as ordinary citizens, but as people who once served the government they are protesting against.

Then body armor, ear plugs, and gas masks will be issued to those who didn’t bring their own. Bagpipes will play, and traditional Sioux war songs will be sung. The music will continue as everyone marches together to the banks of the Missouri, on the other side of which a line of guards in riot gear will be standing ready with rifles, mace, batons, and dogs. Then, the veterans and their allies — or at least the ones who are brave enough — will lock arms and cross the river in a “massive line” for their “first encounter” with the “opposing forces.” http://www.businessinsider.com/veterans-deployment-standing-rock-protest-2016-11

That sounds like the kind of photo-op rich event that the media will be salivating to cover

 

 

[ClutchClark]

2 hours ago, RPCVguy said:

Even with well over a hundred people suffering from hypothermia

 

I am sorry but if people don't have the sense to come in out of the cold it is their own fault.

 

In all other regards, you have really made some solid and sincere contributions on this thread and much respect to you.

 

Clutch

[bassman]

22 hours ago, geriatrickid said:

 

Have you made any effort to understand what they are  upset about? This pipeline crosses native land, land that was supposedly potected by treaty. The pipeline travers  vital water sources for these people. At the protest site, the pipeline is to be laid under the river and lake, which is the sole source of drinking water for these people. The pipeline sponsors have not  established how they will monitor the pipeline in respect to a leak. The minumum clean up reserve  in Iowa is only $250,000. What do you think will happen if there is a leak 10 years from now after the pipeline has changed hands a few times? Remember Love Canal? The company which polluted the area  was no longer around and there was no  company to take responsibility for the pollution. How about the  leaks all along the existing pipeline  system? Do you not realize that there has been significant damage done?  This is what the people are protesting.  

 

Where do you get off  with your racist crap of cutting government benefits? They are not on benefits. The tribal income as stated above is from royalties which are  apittance of the value of the resources taken from their lands. They are doing the only thing they can do to express their despair over their loss of their land.

 

 

 

 

 

Ridiculous, there are already eight other pipelines under the river.

[thaibeachlovers]

1 hour ago, bassman said:

 

Ridiculous, there are already eight other pipelines under the river.

Maybe they are illegal as well.

[jaidam]

This whole saga has surely brought the double standards involving so called native Americans to light. That they behave like spoiled brats is because they have had it all too good for too long. It is imperrative that the double standards they enjoy are ended immediately. All Americans must be subject to the same laws, none of this whole I'm 5% native so I can open a casino any time I want, I don't need a hunting license, closed seasons and bag limits don't apply to me. I don't need to pay tax etc etc. no wonder they are behaving like uppity kids.