Phuket Immigration in the dark over new ‘10-year’ visa

farcanell · November 27, 2016

1 minute ago, NamKangMan said:

Are you serious?

What about Malaysia, Vietnam, Cambodia, Myanmar, Bali?

All are visa friendly.

Write of Malaysia, and Bali... I couldn't stand the wailing from the mosques

myanmar.... mmmm.... thanks but no thanks.

vietnam... I found them worse than the local mafia... but I was a bone fide tourist, ripe for plucking

cambodia... maybe

australia... a nanny state with welcoming arms for returning expats... with better benifits if you take them as a resident.....and until Thailand develops reciprocal reporting rights etc, Thai income, if you rent out your house, would be black money.

but thanks for the list of choices... one is better off with more choices than less. ?

.

mcfish · November 27, 2016

Write of Malaysia, and Bali... I couldn't stand the wailing from the mosques

myanmar.... mmmm.... thanks but no thanks.

vietnam... I found them worse than the local mafia... but I was a bone fide tourist, ripe for plucking

cambodia... maybe

australia... a nanny state with welcoming arms for returning expats... with better benifits if you take them as a resident.....and until Thailand develops reciprocal reporting rights etc, Thai income, if you rent out your house, would be black money.

but thanks for the list of choices... one is better off with more choices than less. [emoji106]

.

Exactly, my pension would shoot up especially with the rental rebates and various add ons including unlimited free health care . And yes I would continue to rent out my Bangkok condo and enjoy the exchange rate back to Oz dollars. It would put me in a better situation than in Thailand but I love Thailand!

Sent from my SC-01D using Tapatalk

farcanell · November 27, 2016

17 minutes ago, mcfish said:

Exactly, my pension would shoot up especially with the rental rebates and various add ons including unlimited free health care . And yes I would continue to rent out my Bangkok condo and enjoy the exchange rate back to Oz dollars. It would put me in a better situation than in Thailand but I love Thailand!

Sent from my SC-01D using Tapatalk

Loving thailand is the problem we face.... for a good many posters, that's why we are here, but seeing other Thailand lovers pushed out would be a shame.

the new comers will be users, rather than appreciators of the country and culture. Albeit high paying users.

but at the moment, I doubt existing expats will be disenfranchised... as a matter of fact, I even doubt that we will see follow up announcements to those made in chiang Mia.

NamKangMan · November 27, 2016

54 minutes ago, mcfish said:

Maybe Vietnam for the food but not the others and Bali may as well be another Australian state.

But your argument is "nothing last forever"

Nothing lasts forever cant be used in debate because you would never lose

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"But your argument is "nothing last forever" - my argument is foreigners reside in Thailand at the whim of the Thai Government.

We can be dispelled from Thailand at anytime, and I have given an example of this, so, it's already happened for some, as LIK also attests to.

My recent posts merely point out that with a minor, or major, change to visa categories, or criteria, many foreigners may be effected, to the point they can no longer reside here, and such "changes" should be planned for, as best one can.

This is not scare mongering or hysteria, it's fact, and has already happened to many.

Edited November 27, 2016 by NamKangMan

NamKangMan · November 27, 2016

42 minutes ago, mcfish said:

Exactly, my pension would shoot up especially with the rental rebates and various add ons including unlimited free health care . And yes I would continue to rent out my Bangkok condo and enjoy the exchange rate back to Oz dollars. It would put me in a better situation than in Thailand but I love Thailand!

Sent from my SC-01D using Tapatalk

"rent out my Bangkok condo and enjoy the exchange rate back to Oz dollars." - wouldn't you have to declare offshore income, thus decreasing your pension?

NamKangMan · November 27, 2016

59 minutes ago, farcanell said:

Write of Malaysia, and Bali... I couldn't stand the wailing from the mosques

myanmar.... mmmm.... thanks but no thanks.

vietnam... I found them worse than the local mafia... but I was a bone fide tourist, ripe for plucking

cambodia... maybe

australia... a nanny state with welcoming arms for returning expats... with better benifits if you take them as a resident.....and until Thailand develops reciprocal reporting rights etc, Thai income, if you rent out your house, would be black money.

but thanks for the list of choices... one is better off with more choices than less. ?

.

Of the above countries, which ones have you been to?

"one is better off with more choices than less. ?" - exactly.

Some may not have Thailand as one of their "choices" in the future, due to visa regulations.

This is all I am simply pointing out, as I could have easily been one of them. recently.

Edited November 27, 2016 by NamKangMan

mcfish · November 27, 2016

"rent out my Bangkok condo and enjoy the exchange rate back to Oz dollars." - wouldn't you have to declare offshore income, thus decreasing your pension?

F####k that! Just ask all the pensioners that dutifully picked up the phone and called Australia social security to proudly announce they married the little isaan farm girl only to have the pension cut by 50 percent.
It's black money and I was in the highest tax bracket all my life so I will enjoy it

Sent from my SC-01D using Tapatalk

NamKangMan · November 27, 2016

28 minutes ago, farcanell said:

Loving thailand is the problem we face.... for a good many posters, that's why we are here, but seeing other Thailand lovers pushed out would be a shame.

the new comers will be users, rather than appreciators of the country and culture. Albeit high paying users.

but at the moment, I doubt existing expats will be disenfranchised... as a matter of fact, I even doubt that we will see follow up announcements to those made in chiang Mia.

I really can't see visa criteria soften here in the future, so that only leaves they remain the same, or tighten.

Out of remain the same, or tighten, if I had to chose which direction the Thai Government would take, I would say they will tighten the criteria. I say this, because, they have in the past, and will probably continue to do so into the future.

Such tightening may be a small adjustment, or it may be quite a big adjustment.

A large increase in the income, or money in the bank,would be most people's concern, but there could be a new spin on this if they say you have to be insured, and if not insured, have 3 million in a Thai bank.

It really is a stoke of a pen in Bangkok, whether the policy has been properly formulated or not.

For me, this new visa shows their way of thinking. They want foreigners living here to have health insurance, or they will basically force those without insurance it to self insure by having more money in a Thai bank for their visa.

As mentioned, "the writing is on the wall" for the future.

worrab · November 27, 2016

1 minute ago, NamKangMan said:

I really can't see visa criteria soften here in the future, so that only leaves they remain the same, or tighten.

Out of remain the same, or tighten, if I had to chose which direction the Thai Government would take, I would say they will tighten the criteria. I say this, because, they have in the past, and will probably continue to do so into the future.

Such tightening may be a small adjustment, or it may be quite a big adjustment.

A large increase in the income, or money in the bank,would be most people's concern, but there could be a new spin on this if they say you have to be insured, and if not insured, have 3 million in a Thai bank.

It really is a stoke of a pen in Bangkok, whether the policy has been properly formulated or not.

For me, this new visa shows their way of thinking. They want foreigners living here to have health insurance, or they will basically force those without insurance it to self insure by having more money in a Thai bank for their visa.

As mentioned, "the writing is on the wall" for the future.

What you have to remember is the amount of money we bring/spend over here. This includes rents or having houses built, shopping, eating out, clothing, extension fees, taxes and so the list can go on. Now if the Government decided to unwisely make big changes in "visas" or extensions to stay, then this money will suddenly disappear with those who will not be able to afford to stay. Income for Thailand decreases and can they really afford to do this?? Answers on a postcard please.

NamKangMan · November 27, 2016

20 minutes ago, mcfish said:

F####k that! Just ask all the pensioners that dutifully picked up the phone and called Australia social security to proudly announce they married the little isaan farm girl only to have the pension cut by 50 percent.
It's black money and I was in the highest tax bracket all my life so I will enjoy it

Sent from my SC-01D using Tapatalk

I'm not Australian. I have little knowledge of Australian tax law.

I suppose you could pull out your rental income from Thailand with a Thai visa card from an Australian ATM, and no one would be the wiser.

farcanell · November 27, 2016

28 minutes ago, NamKangMan said:

Of the above countries, which ones have you been to?

"one is better off with more choices than less. ?" - exactly.

Some may not have Thailand as one of their "choices" in the future, due to visa regulations.

This is all I am simply pointing out, as I could have easily been one of them. recently.

Bali and a few other parts of indonesia.

malaysia

vietnam

reading about Burma makes it unattractive

ergo maybe Cambodia.

and I'm serious when I say one is better of with choices.... and I thank you for that, but Aussie expats over a certain age, should also consider going home as a viable alternative.

over fifty, but under the retirement age, which I'm told is set to rise again, don't nessesarily have to prove they are looking for work, to claim social security benefits, rent assistance, utility payment services, Medicare....

after pension age... less money than social security, but same assistance otherwise

its just another choice available to some, to add to your list ?

farcanell · November 27, 2016

27 minutes ago, mcfish said:

F####k that! Just ask all the pensioners that dutifully picked up the phone and called Australia social security to proudly announce they married the little isaan farm girl only to have the pension cut by 50 percent.
It's black money and I was in the highest tax bracket all my life so I will enjoy it

Sent from my SC-01D using Tapatalk

Now you understand my avatar name?

mcfish · November 27, 2016

Now you understand my avatar name?

Very clever. If I.. Sorry when I eventually get banned from TV I will come back with Imabadcund and see if it slips through

Sent from my SC-01D using Tapatalk

farcanell · November 27, 2016

23 minutes ago, NamKangMan said:

I really can't see visa criteria soften here in the future, so that only leaves they remain the same, or tighten.

Out of remain the same, or tighten, if I had to chose which direction the Thai Government would take, I would say they will tighten the criteria. I say this, because, they have in the past, and will probably continue to do so into the future.

Such tightening may be a small adjustment, or it may be quite a big adjustment.

A large increase in the income, or money in the bank,would be most people's concern, but there could be a new spin on this if they say you have to be insured, and if not insured, have 3 million in a Thai bank.

It really is a stoke of a pen in Bangkok, whether the policy has been properly formulated or not.

For me, this new visa shows their way of thinking. They want foreigners living here to have health insurance, or they will basically force those without insurance it to self insure by having more money in a Thai bank for their visa.

As mentioned, "the writing is on the wall" for the future.

I largely agree, but... with the three mill locked away for a year... that wont help pay medical bills... trickling out over time, post the first year, may not help with paying medical bills

so logically, if you can't meet the requirement to insure... therefore if self insuring, you may need to lock further money away, only available on a doctors authorization

more complications.... but as yet, there's nothing in writing, and it's all speculation, which may prove worthless, other than to make people consider the need for a viable exit plan.... which would be beneficial.... after all, we are currently living under a military dictatorship.

farcanell · November 27, 2016

3 minutes ago, mcfish said:

Very clever. If I.. Sorry when I eventually get banned from TV I will come back with Imabadcund and see if it slips through

Sent from my SC-01D using Tapatalk

Love it!

NamKangMan · November 27, 2016

8 minutes ago, worrab said:

What you have to remember is the amount of money we bring/spend over here. This includes rents or having houses built, shopping, eating out, clothing, extension fees, taxes and so the list can go on. Now if the Government decided to unwisely make big changes in "visas" or extensions to stay, then this money will suddenly disappear with those who will not be able to afford to stay. Income for Thailand decreases and can they really afford to do this?? Answers on a postcard please.

This seems to be the common argument, yet, they have already turned away thousands of regular mid tern stay foreigners, many of whom were employed in good jobs abroad, and were big spenders here. As LIK said, his business lost these customers.

As for the house, it has already been built, so the loses are nothing to the Thai construction industry now.

As for the shopping, eating etc etc - by raising the criteria, maybe they think they will attract "high end" retirees - who knows? BUT, this is my point, they bring in a policy, with little research to its impact on the economy, and foreigners.

Maybe they no longer see a benefit in retaining the expat retirees from the boom times of the 80's and 90's.

farcanell · November 27, 2016

18 minutes ago, NamKangMan said:

I'm not Australian. I have little knowledge of Australian tax law.

I suppose you could pull out your rental income from Thailand with a Thai visa card from an Australian ATM, and no one would be the wiser.

There ya go.... until banking reciprocal arrangements get implemented

NamKangMan · November 27, 2016

9 minutes ago, farcanell said:

I largely agree, but... with the three mill locked away for a year... that wont help pay medical bills... trickling out over time, post the first year, may not help with paying medical bills

so logically, if you can't meet the requirement to insure... therefore if self insuring, you may need to lock further money away, only available on a doctors authorization

more complications.... but as yet, there's nothing in writing, and it's all speculation, which may prove worthless, other than to make people consider the need for a viable exit plan.... which would be beneficial.... after all, we are currently living under a military dictatorship.

My understanding is 1.5 million baht of the 3 million baht could not be accessed, UNLESS, a serious medical condition occurred, or property purchase, or some other important reason.

NamKangMan · November 27, 2016

10 minutes ago, farcanell said:

There ya go.... until banking reciprocal arrangements get implemented

Well, until then, it would still be tax evasion. Right?

farcanell · November 27, 2016

9 minutes ago, NamKangMan said:

My understanding is 1.5 million baht of the 3 million baht could not be accessed, UNLESS, a serious medical condition occurred, or property purchase, or some other important reason.

You could be right.... this thread has been going on for too long to keep a track on it all... esp with some posters adding the actual Thai version vs TV version

NamKangMan · November 27, 2016

19 minutes ago, farcanell said:

You could be right.... this thread has been going on for too long to keep a track on it all... esp with some posters adding the actual Thai version vs TV version

My understanding is, it was not just about having 3 million baht in a Thai bank, it was something like, 1.5 million baht has to be held, basically, as a medical bond, throughout the stay of the foreigner..

Anyway, as you say, who knows? Not even the Thai's know.

If there are no reports of red stamps at immigration, and people told they have to get this visa, or get out, I can only wonder who would want one of these visas, given the criteria.

This is why I mentioned, if they can't "sell" it, who are they possibly going to try to "push" onto it?

Edited November 27, 2016 by NamKangMan

farcanell · November 27, 2016

8 minutes ago, NamKangMan said:

Well, until then, it would still be tax evasion. Right?

Right.... but I prefer to see it as a business decision / risk.

the Aussie government has reciprocal bank reporting agreements with a dozen or so foreign governments already, these can be found on the ATO website, god bless their cotton socks.

in making these agreements, they gave an amnesty period for people to confess, at a 10% penalty rate... those caught not confessing faced a 90% penalty rate

assumedly, if adding new countries, these will also be gazetted, providing an opportunity to get ones affairs in order, which may be to withdraw all monies in a given account, hide it under a mattress, close that account, then redirect rental income to another account.

this money can then be declared, and shared ( in my case) with my Australian partner) which would see the divided income total less than the amount one is permitted to earn under the existing laws, whilst still being able to claim benefits.

of course, to further obscure my banking history here, I would also get a new passport, such that closed accounts under the wrong passport number, are harder to find.

but yes... tax evasion.... not that dissimilar to the reverse rigouse rules that disqualify what seem like legitimate claims, such as an extra pair of boots in a year... or as a minimum, jam a pineapple up your rear end, costing thousands in court fees, whilst you may have to defend yourself during an audit... which if you win, will probably be disallowed as a deduction.... unfairly

besides.... almost everyone I know, tries in some way or another, thru company setups, trusts or superannuation, to avoid the government mandated payable amounts... that's just the way it is. Some "save" more, usually the rich, by paying for better advice than that given by your garden variety tax agent.

farcanell · November 27, 2016

7 minutes ago, NamKangMan said:

My understanding is, it was not just about having 3 million baht in a Thai bank, it was something like, 1.5 million baht has to be held, basically, as a medical bond, throughout the stay of the foreigner..

Anyway, as you say, who knows? Not even the Thai's know.

If there are no reports of red stamps at immigration, and people told they have to get this visa, or get out, I can only wonder who would want one of these visas, given the criteria.

This is why I mentioned, if they can't "sell" it, who are they possibly going to try to "push" onto it?

People from wealthy nations who know no better, probably.

I expect overseas embassies will be directed to provide advice to direct people down this path, ignoring viable alternatives.... per their announced target nations, most of which have excellent, though expensive, health care services

recently a friend visited for two weeks, simply to have extensive dental work done... at days end, he saved money, even though he had decent health cover ( but that was on a 28 day transit visa)

as a medical hub, a lot of the medical services can be done like this.... which brings it back to targeting retirees

but we digress.

SunsetT · November 27, 2016

On 26/11/2016 at 10:23 AM, madmitch said:

It appears to me that Estrada is just sharing his own interpretation with the rest of us as most of what he says has not been reported elsewhere, unless he would like to show us a link otherwise.

The surprising aspect is the need for out-patient insurance. I can understand the reason for in-patient insurance but surely anyone with THB3m in the bank or earns 100k per month can afford to pay up to $1000 on medical bills. OPD can also be very expensive, which is why many people with health insurance don't buy it.

Cant be bothered as its not relevant to me but if this is being implemented and u want to know more detail I suggest u check overseas embassy and consulate websites where it should be appearing.

NamKangMan · November 27, 2016

10 minutes ago, farcanell said:

Right.... but I prefer to see it as a business decision / risk.

the Aussie government has reciprocal bank reporting agreements with a dozen or so foreign governments already, these can be found on the ATO website, god bless their cotton socks.

in making these agreements, they gave an amnesty period for people to confess, at a 10% penalty rate... those caught not confessing faced a 90% penalty rate

assumedly, if adding new countries, these will also be gazetted, providing an opportunity to get ones affairs in order, which may be to withdraw all monies in a given account, hide it under a mattress, close that account, then redirect rental income to another account.

this money can then be declared, and shared ( in my case) with my Australian partner) which would see the divided income total less than the amount one is permitted to earn under the existing laws, whilst still being able to claim benefits.

of course, to further obscure my banking history here, I would also get a new passport, such that closed accounts under the wrong passport number, are harder to find.

but yes... tax evasion.... not that dissimilar to the reverse rigouse rules that disqualify what seem like legitimate claims, such as an extra pair of boots in a year... or as a minimum, jam a pineapple up your rear end, costing thousands in court fees, whilst you may have to defend yourself during an audit... which if you win, will probably be disallowed as a deduction.... unfairly

besides.... almost everyone I know, tries in some way or another, thru company setups, trusts or superannuation, to avoid the government mandated payable amounts... that's just the way it is. Some "save" more, usually the rich, by paying for better advice than that given by your garden variety tax agent.

For foreign currency electronic transfers, many banks use "intermediary" banks.

So, whilst Kasikorn, SCB, Bangkok Bank etc are not on the list, the intermediary bank, which in many cases, is a large bank based in a financial hub, may be on the list.

Well worth looking into.

boomerangutang · November 27, 2016

On 11/26/2016 at 10:07 AM, JustNo said:

You say 'would not replace the normal 1 year permission to stay' but that is not clear at all. In fact, in the original notification about this a few days ago, it suggested that it was going to be replacing the 1 year of stay, and that you would need to meet all of the requirements.

Confusius (Confusion) Say: 'Asian man cannot speak clearly.'

Does anyone have it from the sage fathers in Bangkok whether the new 5+5 visa replaces the current 1 year type-O? ....or whether it's another option?

Dumbastheycome · November 27, 2016

On 25/11/2016 at 6:40 PM, Wilsonandson said:

No details but will be enforced in 5 days time.

Madness!

Enforced?????

farcanell · November 27, 2016

Thanks NKM..... much appreaciated.

NamKangMan · November 27, 2016

15 minutes ago, boomerangutang said:

Confusius (Confusion) Say: 'Asian man cannot speak clearly.'

Does anyone have it from the sage fathers in Bangkok whether the new 5+5 visa replaces the current 1 year type-O? ....or whether it's another option?

"Confusius (Confusion) Say: 'Asian man cannot speak clearly." - and Confucius (Confusion) Say: foreigner living in Thailand with young Thai lady not want to hear he can not stay Thailand anymore."

Jingthing · November 27, 2016

Confusius (Confusion) Say: 'Asian man cannot speak clearly.'

Does anyone have it from the sage fathers in Bangkok whether the new 5+5 visa replaces the current 1 year type-O? ....or whether it's another option?

I assume you mean O-A.

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