Deadline for Dhammakaya Abbot to Surrender Expires, Again

[WhizBang]

This is nothing but a massive farce, and I find it hard to believe that anyone involved could lose more face than they already have.   He's LONG gone anyway.

 

If they really want to get him (assuming he's still there), you go in, in force, at 3AM in the morning armed with tasers and tear gas.

 

Oh, and you DO NOT announce this plan beforehand.
 

[ujayujay]

Again............RTP refusal to work

[Redline]

Comedy Central

[dhream]

11 hours ago, baboon said:

I am inclined to politely disagree.

If this monk is the demon he is alleged to be, why not draft clear charges against him, invite outside observers to ensure there is no kind of brutal or unnecessary force used in his arrest and then allow the said observers to witness and report on any subsequent legal action to both Thailand and the outside world?

Obviously face is an important cultural issue, but what face do the authorities have left to lose the way the situation is now?

Because, your reasonable sounding plan would not work.

As any experienced police commander/negotiator knows, outside observers (press or otherwise) would actually encourage his people to play up more! 

It is one of those situations where the authorities would look bad even defending themselves.

As I said they lose face either way. And as I also said, the Thai way to avoid face loss, or further face loss, is to stall. So they can and will stall until some other agency, such as death or whatever, overtakes the current situation.

You are underestimating the power of 'face', particularly the higher it goes, the further to fall.

[dhream]

1 hour ago, Srikcir said:

Prayut had no problem arresting two eight-year old girls for violating the Referendum Act, but he can't take action against Dhammakaya Abbot because it might disturb the public. Where are the moral ethics of this government?

 

Disturb the public? He'd kick off the revolution his enemies are itching to have!

 

It's one thing to shut down the opposition by abusing certain sections of a certain law.

It's quite another to be seen to be attacking one of the 'pillars' of Thainess; Religion.

 

Yes we all know Dhamma is a naughty boy, but, again, they created this situation by creating a societal framework that the rule of law MUST subordinate itself to.

 

In 'The life of Brian', the ridiculous scene where the Pharisee stones himself for saying 'Jehovah' this is the farcical situation the PM has put himself into here.

 

I'm no Thai expert, a little reading (of quality external media) goes a long way.

[billd766]

26 minutes ago, WhizBang said:

This is nothing but a massive farce, and I find it hard to believe that anyone involved could lose more face than they already have.   He's LONG gone anyway.

 

If they really want to get him (assuming he's still there), you go in, in force, at 3AM in the morning armed with tasers and tear gas.

 

Oh, and you DO NOT announce this plan beforehand.
 

 

Actually you should announce it then dont bother. Do that 5 or 6 times and then simply go in unannounced.

 

By that time his "supporters will be so tired of waiting they wont be aware of what is happening.

 

Get some Thai music trucks to drive around 24/7 playing VERY loud music for a few days, that should drive them crazy.

[tukkytuktuk]

The timing of this deadline is interesting. If the dsi storm the temple and arrest the abbot without bloodshed the government gain more power. If it goes horribly wrong or becomes an embarrisment well this will weaken the government.

 

Prayut must be sure of a win as he's laid his cards on the table. But as one newspaper said today:-

Dhammakaya has amassed a very large number of supporters, both laypeople and monks. Heavy resistance is anticipated.

Edited December 1, 2016 by tukkytuktuk

[dhream]

2 minutes ago, billd766 said:

 

Actually you should announce it then dont bother. Do that 5 or 6 times and then simply go in unannounced.

 

By that time his "supporters will be so tired of waiting they wont be aware of what is happening.

 

Get some Thai music trucks to drive around 24/7 playing VERY loud music for a few days, that should drive them crazy.

 Waco, Texas worked out well, didn't it? Times that disaster by 100 then sit back and watch the nation tear itself apart.

[NanLaew]

17 hours ago, snoop1130 said:

PM urges fugitive abbot Dhammachayo to surrender and face charges in court

By The Nation

 

PRIME MINISTER Prayut Chan-o-cha Wednesday called on Phra Dhammachayo, the fugitive abbot of Wat Dhammakaya in Pathum Thani, to surrender and fight his case in court. The abbot faces charges of money laundering and receiving funds embezzled from the Klongchan Credit Union Cooperative (KCUC).

 

In response to a question about why the authorities could not just arrest the abbot, Prayut said the officers had to consider if such an operation would give rise to confrontation or injuries.

Instead, he said, the public should give the officers time to formulate a plan and decide on the right timing, instead of pressuring them. 
“You should instead be pressuring the suspect to come out so others are not troubled or wounded. Come out to fight the legal battle, so it brings your problem to an end, rather than using the masses to fight back,” he said, adding that people, as citizens, should not block the authorities from doing their duty. 

 

-- © Copyright The Nation 2016-11-30

 

I guess Article 44 does have some caveats?

[NanLaew]

12 minutes ago, dhream said:

 Waco, Texas worked out well, didn't it? Times that disaster by 100 then sit back and watch the nation tear itself apart.

 

Huh? Waco times 100? Nation tear itself apart?

[Eric Loh]

The junta has been chipping away the PTT support base relatively unhindered until now. This will not go down easy and may become the rallying point for dissenters and activisits. It will take a mediation of the highest order and may come soon. 

[dhream]

4 hours ago, freebyrd said:

Buddhism?! - looks more like an Egyptian Pharaoh's funeral - bizarre!

Katy Perry video? (Ask your kids).

[dhream]

1 hour ago, NanLaew said:

 

Huh? Waco times 100? Nation tear itself apart?

Some responses get the responses they deserve...

Welcome to the ignore list, zero tolerance for troll posts, over it.

Edited December 1, 2016 by dhream

[freebyrd]

4 minutes ago, dhream said:

Katy Perry video? (Ask your kids).

 

That won't help, my kids are pushing 40, but thanks for letting me know. Isn't she the one who was married to that Prat Russell Brand? It seems I've been in Asia too long - thankfully!

[billd766]

1 hour ago, dhream said:

 Waco, Texas worked out well, didn't it? Times that disaster by 100 then sit back and watch the nation tear itself apart.

 

A totally different mindset completely.

 

Do you truly think that the abbot will order ALL his "supporters" to commit suicide or that the Wat is barricaded in and full of armed men just spoiling for a fight with the "government"?

 

IMHO the Thai nation will not tear itself apart because of this abbot as the people have seen too many abbots and monks like him over the past few years.

 

Living in rural Thailand and seeing the Wats around here then comparing them to the "flying saucer" is like comparing apples to motor cars. Out here many but certainly no all (mostly older people) support the temples and monks with food and help and some donations. In the city Wats richer people seem to want to buy their way to a better next life while screwing the poorer people for all they can get.

 

IMHO once again Buddhism in Thailand is going down a similar path that Christianity has gone. More people pay lip service to it than actually practice it fully. Look at all the hi-so men who get caught doing wrong and spending a couple of weeks in a Wat. Does that make them a better person or just saving face?

[Artisi]

3 hours ago, Srikcir said:

Prayut had no problem arresting two eight-year old girls for violating the Referendum Act, but he can't take action against Dhammakaya Abbot because it might disturb the public. Where are the moral ethics of this government?

What moral ethics might that be...?

[Artisi]

There are insufficient words in Roget's Thesaurus to even half describe the uselessness  of this whole exercise, it makes Dad's Army looks like an elite squad of SAS in comparison.

 

[dhream]

Just now, billd766 said:

 

A totally different mindset completely.

 

Do you truly think that the abbot will order ALL his "supporters" to commit suicide or that the Wat is barricaded in and full of armed men just spoiling for a fight with the "government"?

 

IMHO the Thai nation will not tear itself apart because of this abbot as the people have seen too many abbots and monks like him over the past few years.

 

Living in rural Thailand and seeing the Wats around here then comparing them to the "flying saucer" is like comparing apples to motor cars. Out here many but certainly no all (mostly older people) support the temples and monks with food and help and some donations. In the city Wats richer people seem to want to buy their way to a better next life while screwing the poorer people for all they can get.

 

IMHO once again Buddhism in Thailand is going down a similar path that Christianity has gone. More people pay lip service to it than actually practice it fully. Look at all the hi-so men who get caught doing wrong and spending a couple of weeks in a Wat. Does that make them a better person or just saving face?

 

The waco comment was in context ONLY to how things escalate very badly when a SWAT mentality is used against a cult community.

And as you rightly point out, a 'cult' community vs the average Wat are apples and oranges, but...

The difficulty with Thailand is they don't yet actually distinguish cults from the 'real thing' so an attack on the UFO compound is basically an attack on the faith, one of the three 'pillars' of the nation. It's almost unimaginable any form of snatch operation will be attempted. 

But TiT it's anybody's guess, really, you could be right and I could lose face

[Artisi]

2 hours ago, billd766 said:

 

Actually you should announce it then dont bother. Do that 5 or 6 times and then simply go in unannounced.

 

By that time his "supporters will be so tired of waiting they wont be aware of what is happening.

 

Get some Thai music trucks to drive around 24/7 playing VERY loud music for a few days, that should drive them crazy.

just cut all power, water, sewage off, barricade the place with exit only allowed.

It might take 6 months, but so what - it's already taken longer than this with bugger-all result.

[billd766]

1 minute ago, dhream said:

 

The waco comment was in context ONLY to how things escalate very badly when a SWAT mentality is used against a cult community.

And as you rightly point out, a 'cult' community vs the average Wat are apples and oranges, but...

The difficulty with Thailand is they don't yet actually distinguish cults from the 'real thing' so an attack on the UFO compound is basically an attack on the faith, one of the three 'pillars' of the nation. It's almost unimaginable any form of snatch operation will be attempted. 

But TiT it's anybody's guess, really, you could be right and I could lose face

 

Whichever way you look at it, it wont be easy for the government to get it right.

 

If the Buddhist faith was respected and practiced by all Thais then I would believe that there will be trouble ahead, but it doesnt seem that way any more. The Sangha doesnt want to get involved yet it is their problem to deal with really. If the "leaders' of Thai Buddhism dont want to know the Thai people wont have a clue.

 

You and I have no face to lose, but there will be a lot of important people on either side that cannot afford to lose face.