Australian Age Pension Rules for Expats about to change again from 1 January 2017

[Grubster]

On 12/6/2016 at 2:33 PM, sandgroper2 said:

Bloody great. My suggestion for a better headline would be " Only dinkum Ozzies to qualify for a fixed old  age pension".  The others, get a top up pension from the country of your birth.

And all foreigners would be exempt from paying into it.

[4MyEgo]

15 minutes ago, Grubster said:

Are the pensions there not based on what you pay in.

 

Unfortunately not, however the government started compulsory superannuation some years ago so as to slowly get rid of the pension.

 

For us folk, it goes like this, if you have worked for 35 plus years, you get the full pension, if less, it goes on a prorata basis, i.e. years worked over a formula.

 

As Simple1 replied in a previous reply on this post, he is of the opinion that it hasn't passed legislation yet, and if that is the case, for those of us who have worked for 35 years plus, we will not get our pensions cut down after 26 weeks away from Australia, that is, if we return to claim it, in my case 10 years away and will have to stay in Australia for 2 years to qualify, yes and absolute joke, because this rule would turn most of us off, because we know the cost to live in Sydney for those 2 years would cost more than the pension in rent alone.

 

F'n politicians, promise you when your young that if you work and pay your taxes, you will get a full pension, no talk about you not being able to get it if you decide to retire overseas earlier than the OAP age, so they make amendments to the legislation, year in, year out, trying to make it harder for us expats to get what we were told we would get originally, suffice to say, I wouldn't be surprised if the 2 year rule is lifted to 5 by the time I reach the OAP age, that or they put another amendment on it, e.g. making it no longer portable.....555

 

On the other hand if you live in Australia until you reach OAP age and worked 35 plus years, you can get the pension and take it with you, meaning for those of us who are smarter and exit the slave trade earlier and do not pay the additional taxes, in my case 10 years, they want to make life more difficult for me, by doing this, fortunately, I have enough to last me till I reach 101, suffice to say, if I can make it worth my while, I will go back and sit it out, just to stick it too them 555   

[4MyEgo]

1 hour ago, moojar said:

I called Centrelink International Services today. After enjoying the on-hold music for 15 or 20 minutes I got to speak to someone. 

 

Firstly, there is no defined 'residency' period. It is at the discretion of the local Centrelink officer processing your application. 

 

For people like us, already retired and spending time out of the country, they look at:
- Family Ties (Some mention of ".. and with your wife being from Thailand ...")
- Assets
- Travel history. 

 

And it is the travel history that carries the most weight. The Centrelink officer couldn't give me a firm answer on how long you would have to spend in the country each year prior to reaching pension age to be deemed resident - as she said, "there is no cut and dried answer". She did say six weeks per year would not be enough, that is just a visit, it is not classed as spending time at home.

 

She also could not tell me how many years they go back to look at your travel history. 

 

The suggestion was that I speak to someone in the 'aged pension' section to try and get more information. 

 

Good information, I think for anyone seriously thinking of going back to get the pension, they should go back two years prior to the OAP age, at least that way they can't say your not back, and once you get the OAP at the OAP age, you can depart with your middle finger high in the air 555

[Grubster]

3 minutes ago, 4MyEgo said:

 

Unfortunately not, however the government started compulsory superannuation some years ago so as to slowly get rid of the pension.

 

For us folk, it goes like this, if you have worked for 35 plus years, you get the full pension, if less, it goes on a prorata basis, i.e. years worked over a formula.

 

As Simple1 replied in a previous reply on this post, he is of the opinion that it hasn't passed legislation yet, and if that is the case, for those of us who have worked for 35 years plus, we will not get our pensions cut down after 26 weeks away from Australia, that is, if we return to claim it, in my case 10 years away and will have to stay in Australia for 2 years to qualify, yes and absolute joke, because this rule would turn most of us off, because we know the cost to live in Sydney for those 2 years would cost more than the pension in rent alone.

 

F'n politicians, promise you when your young that if you work and pay your taxes, you will get a full pension, no talk about you not being able to get it if you decide to retire overseas, so they make amendments to the legislation, year in, year out, trying to make it harder for us expats to get what we were told we would get, suffice to say, I wouldn't be surprised if the 2 year rule is lifted to 5 by the time I reach the OAP age, that or they put another amendment on it, e.g. making it no longer portable.....555 

I bet those politicians can draw their pension as soon as they get voted out and from anywhere in the world. I think a good beating would be in order for those clowns. The US has not done this to us "yet", but there has been talk of changes. I think you should be allowed to take all you paid in one lump sum if you don't qualify otherwise.

[4MyEgo]

4 minutes ago, Grubster said:

I bet those politicians can draw their pension as soon as they get voted out and from anywhere in the world. I think a good beating would be in order for those clowns. The US has not done this to us "yet", but there has been talk of changes. I think you should be allowed to take all you paid in one lump sum if you don't qualify otherwise.

 

Australia's pension system which is different to its superannuation system works like this:

 

Pension: You work for over 10 years (qualifying period) paying taxes, and when you reach (current) age 65 going up to 67 in 2023 you receive a pension based on the years you worked, i.e. there is a formula, however if you got 35 years in, you get the full pension, paid fortnightly, or monthly overseas, as I have read. The government has also been pushing to get the pension age lifted to 70, suffice to say, they are making it more and more difficult year in, year out. 

 

Superannuation on the other hand is a compulsory contribution on I think currently 9.25% which is taken out of your salary, your employer pays for your superannuation on top of your salary, and when you reach 55 you can take it out, but have to pay tax, if you take it at 60 its tax free.

 

Eventually pensions will be fazed out, and people will have to rely on their superannuation which will be of a lessor burden to the government in the future.

 

From what I hear the US looks after its own, even though it is trillions in debt, Australia owes billion but look how it looks after its own.  

[Grubster]

2 minutes ago, 4MyEgo said:

 

Australia's pension system which is different to its superannuation system works like this:

 

Pension: You work for over 10 years (qualifying period) paying taxes, and when you reach (current) age 65 going up to 67 in 2023 you receive a pension based on the years you worked, i.e. there is a formula, however if you got 35 years in, you get the full pension, paid fortnightly, or monthly overseas, as I have read. The government has also been pushing to get the pension age lifted to 70, suffice to say, they are making it more and more difficult year in, year out. 

 

Superannuation on the other hand is a compulsory contribution on I think currently 9.25% which is taken out of your salary, your employer pays for your superannuation on top of your salary, and when you reach 55 you can take it out, but have to pay tax, if you take it at 60 its tax free.

 

Eventually pensions will be fazed out, and people will have to rely on their superannuation which will be of a lessor burden to the government in the future.

 

From what I hear the US looks after its own, even though it is trillions in debt, Australia owes billion but look how it looks after its own.  

All the elderly vote in the US making it more difficult to hammer us as they would like to do. Many times there has been plans to cut SS there but very few congressmen want their name on a bill like that. Not because they don't want it, but they want those votes.

          At some point your government may want to get their greedy hands on that Superannuation money too. First step would be to make withdrawals taxable at any age. I would bet that happens.

[4MyEgo]

17 minutes ago, Grubster said:

All the elderly vote in the US making it more difficult to hammer us as they would like to do. Many times there has been plans to cut SS there but very few congressmen want their name on a bill like that. Not because they don't want it, but they want those votes.

          At some point your government may want to get their greedy hands on that Superannuation money too. First step would be to make withdrawals taxable at any age. I would bet that happens.

 

I don't know about the US, but if we lose our residency by being out of the country for more than 183 days because we cannot prove that we still live in Australia, we also lose our right to the health care system (Medicare), we also lose our right to vote, suffice to say they have worked it out down pat, we are no threat to them, if we could vote, and we should be able to because we are citizens, I am sure they would hear our voice as "EXPATS".

 

Your on the money with regard to superannuation, I have been telling a mate of mine the same as you are saying, but as a foreign or non resident of Australia, they tax us at 32.5c in the $ up to $80,000, then it jumps to 37c in the $ after that, if we take it before age 60, so we are forced to hold out, unfortunately.

 

Thesepricks work everything out on Census night, collecting all the information to use against its people, a-holes !

 

 

[4MyEgo]

1 hour ago, moojar said:

^ If they decide you are not resident you still get your OAP.  You just cannot leave the country for two years - not even for a holiday - without losing your pension, and having to start the two-year clock ticking fresh if you apply again. (As I understand it - that wasn't told to me today.)

 

That sounds fair, at least if you are staying in Aus, the OAP money can go towards renting a shoe box in Sydney while you sit it out for 2 years eating pub specials for breakfast, lunch and dinner.

 

 

[Grubster]

2 minutes ago, 4MyEgo said:

 

I don't know about the US, but if we lose our residency by being out of the country for more than 183 days because we cannot prove that we still live in Australia, we also lose our right to the health care system (Medicare), we also lose our right to vote, suffice to say they have worked it out down pat, we are no threat to them, if we could vote, and we should be able to because we are citizens, I am sure they would hear our voice as "EXPATS".

 

Your on the money with regard to superannuation, I have been telling a mate of mine the same as you are saying, but as a foreign or non resident of Australia, they tax us at 32.5c in the $ up to $80,000, then it jumps to 37c in the $ after that if we take it before age 60, so we are forced to hold out, unfortunately.

 

Thes pricks work everything out on Census night, collecting all the information to use against its people, a-holes !

 

 

I opted out of Medicare as I have full VA care but neither of those are ever cancelled for leaving the country, they can only be used in country though except for Retired Military, they get coverage world wide. Opting out of Medicare got me $100 + extra on my SS.  So I have no room to complain as you clearly do. From what I've heard about prices down under it seems like retiring there is not very doable. Maybe they just want you to work till death, then they can keep it all.

[TPI]

On 07/12/2016 at 10:01 AM, 4MyEgo said:

 

To save dollars by reducing pensions amounts, also the 2 year rule that one has to be in Australia before the OAP age is a big winner for the government as most, like myself weigh up the costs to return and live in Sydney for 2 years, would not be feasible, i.e. work out how many years it would take you to recoupe the money from the pension (if granted) Vs money spent to survive in Sydney to obtain the pension, with there being no guarantee that you will get it, the onus is on you to prove to CentreLink that you are back to remain in Australia, and who knows if one day they stop the portability or make further reductions, highly unlikely, but who knows ?

But why go to Sydney? Central Qld coast is low priced and has wonderful weather. Western NSW and Qld are dry and have great small towns. WA and SA are reasonably priced and spending 2 years in any of these places would not be a hardship! 

You can buy latte anywhere in Oz now, some even have running water! 

[TPI]

56 minutes ago, 4MyEgo said:

 

Australia's pension system which is different to its superannuation system works like this:

 

Pension: You work for over 10 years (qualifying period) paying taxes, and when you reach (current) age 65 going up to 67 in 2023 you receive a pension based on the years you worked, i.e. there is a formula, however if you got 35 years in, you get the full pension, paid fortnightly, or monthly overseas, as I have read. The government has also been pushing to get the pension age lifted to 70, suffice to say, they are making it more and more difficult year in, year out. 

 

Superannuation on the other hand is a compulsory contribution on I think currently 9.25% which is taken out of your salary, your employer pays for your superannuation on top of your salary, and when you reach 55 you can take it out, but have to pay tax, if you take it at 60 its tax free.

 

Eventually pensions will be fazed out, and people will have to rely on their superannuation which will be of a lessor burden to the government in the future.

 

From what I hear the US looks after its own, even though it is trillions in debt, Australia owes billion but look how it looks after its own.  

In the late 40's Social security was financed by a special tax of 1.75% that went into a separate fund, in 1972, the workers friend Goff Whitlam decided to rip into the fund to pay for all the little porkies that his friends had thought up! They then decided to pay pensions and the like out of general revenue, we've all seen what a wonderful success that turned out to be!!

[sandgroper2]

2 hours ago, Grubster said:

And all foreigners would be exempt from paying into it.

How would they know their departure date? ie. death.

[sandgroper2]

1 hour ago, 4MyEgo said:

 

That sounds fair, at least if you are staying in Aus, the OAP money can go towards renting a shoe box in Sydney while you sit it out for 2 years eating pub specials for breakfast, lunch and dinner.

 

 

Several Oz govt depts have different ideas about who is a resident, you can be declaired  a non resident by one but still a resident by another. Has happened to me. I still  getthe OAP, part actually, and only go home 4 weeks a year. And when i land, i ring up  centrelink tell them i have come back and get my allowances up and running again. Some people on here are talking out their rear orifice  as usual.

[4MyEgo]

2 hours ago, sandgroper2 said:

Several Oz govt depts have different ideas about who is a resident, you can be declaired  a non resident by one but still a resident by another. Has happened to me. I still  getthe OAP, part actually, and only go home 4 weeks a year. And when i land, i ring up  centrelink tell them i have come back and get my allowances up and running again. Some people on here are talking out their rear orifice  as usual.

 

Just out of curiosity;

 

1) Were you in Oz when for 2 years prior when you applied for the pension or less than 2 years and were deemed a non-resident

 

See to me there is some confusion, i.e. I cannot find anything on any site saying that if you are assessed as a non resident you still get paid the OAP, but have to stay in Oz for 2 years or payments will be stopped.

 

I have seen it saying that the applicant has to be a resident and be in the country for 2 years to be able to apply for the OAP, now they wouldn't be saying it this way to turn us away, would they, because I like the way you have explained it, not that I doubt you, but is there a link that stipulates your version, or is it just the way it happened with you ?

 

To me, if this is the case, the government or department i.e. Human Resources or Centrelink or whoever should state the facts more clearly, e.g. If you are a non resident, you will have to return to Oz 2 years prior to apply and receive your pension effective upon approval, however once payment begins, i.e. within a month, you will have to remain in Oz for 2 years before it can be portable, i.e. transferred to you in the country you choose to reside.

[4MyEgo]

4 hours ago, TPI said:

But why go to Sydney? Central Qld coast is low priced and has wonderful weather. Western NSW and Qld are dry and have great small towns. WA and SA are reasonably priced and spending 2 years in any of these places would not be a hardship! 

You can buy latte anywhere in Oz now, some even have running water! 

 

Sydney born and raised, family/friends, would have to forgo the latte, I like my own made coffee, I teaspoon Nescafe, half a teaspoon brown sugar and 3 scoops of coffeemate 555

[4MyEgo]

4 hours ago, Grubster said:

I opted out of Medicare as I have full VA care but neither of those are ever cancelled for leaving the country, they can only be used in country though except for Retired Military, they get coverage world wide. Opting out of Medicare got me $100 + extra on my SS.  So I have no room to complain as you clearly do. From what I've heard about prices down under it seems like retiring there is not very doable. Maybe they just want you to work till death, then they can keep it all.

 

Down under, in particular Sydney where I am from is bloody expensive, the OAP is around $400 a week, you would hard pushed finding something to rent for that, i.e. unless you move out to the sticks, then you have to eat.

 

Your last sentence hit the nail on the head.

[sandgroper2]

23 minutes ago, 4MyEgo said:

 

Just out of curiosity;

 

1) Were you in Oz when for 2 years prior when you applied for the pension or less than 2 years and were deemed a non-resident

 

See to me there is some confusion, i.e. I cannot find anything on any site saying that if you are assessed as a non resident you still get paid the OAP, but have to stay in Oz for 2 years or payments will be stopped.

 

I have seen it saying that the applicant has to be a resident and be in the country for 2 years to be able to apply for the OAP, now they wouldn't be saying it this way to turn us away, would they, because I like the way you have explained it, not that I doubt you, but is there a link that stipulates your version, or is it just the way it happened with you ?

 

To me, if this is the case, the government or department i.e. Human Resources or Centrelink or whoever should state the facts more clearly, e.g. If you are a non resident, you will have to return to Oz 2 years prior to apply and receive your pension effective upon approval, however once payment begins, i.e. within a month, you will have to remain in Oz for 2 years before it can be portable, i.e. transferred to you in the country you choose to reside.

Born  in Oz, worked, never left till age 55, then came to LOS for holidays twice a year, sometimes once a year, my holidays were usually for abut 6 months. Turned 65, got part old age pension. Never stayed Oz more than one month. Sup benefits stop after 26 weeks, i think. When i go  back to Oz , i intend to stay permanently, but change my mind after a coupla weeks and return to LOS. What may make a difference is that i am ex military, get military pension and pay Oz tax on it. Thats abut it ol son. Clear as muddy water , ay! I am  only a non resident in the eyes for the Dept Defence. Which   means stuff all. Bunch of <deleted>.

[sandgroper2]

4 hours ago, Grubster said:

I opted out of Medicare as I have full VA care but neither of those are ever cancelled for leaving the country, they can only be used in country though except for Retired Military, they get coverage world wide. Opting out of Medicare got me $100 + extra on my SS.  So I have no room to complain as you clearly do. From what I've heard about prices down under it seems like retiring there is not very doable. Maybe they just want you to work till death, then they can keep it all.

I tried to opt out of medicare as i dont use it and live in LOS. Was advised that if i opt out of medicare as i live overseas, i would have to pay the max tax on my military pension. Have you lodged a tax return since you dropped medicare?

[sandgroper2]

On 12/7/2016 at 7:09 PM, 4MyEgo said:

 

Do you think these mungrals would give a rats ass, you can give it a shot, but I am sure the would refer you to the legislation, which says, reside in Australia for 2 years prior to the OAP age.

 

Good luck and let me know if you come up with any other thoughts, because I could use one, e.g. Wife and I are divorcing, well there goes half the pension, next 555

 

 

If you can prove you are medically unfit to return, you  cannot return, ignore myego ridiculous comments.

[Grubster]

1 minute ago, sandgroper2 said:

I tried to opt out of medicare as i dont use it and live in LOS. Was advised that if i opt out of medicare as i live overseas, i would have to pay the max tax on my military pension. Have you lodged a tax return since you dropped medicare?

Yes about ten returns and I think that is nonsense someone told you, The only drawback I know of is that if you need Medicare later you have to back pay for some of what you didn't pay.  I have a VA disability and not a twenty or thirty year military pension, that could be different I don't know, but VA benefits can not be taxed. That said the only way anybody can touch VA benefits is if you owe taxes to the IRS, or if you go to prison they are canceled until you get out. You cannot lose them in a law suit, divorce or anything else. If you have Tricare because you are retired military then you must keep your Medicare.

[sandgroper2]

6 hours ago, 4MyEgo said:

 

Unfortunately not, however the government started compulsory superannuation some years ago so as to slowly get rid of the pension.

 

For us folk, it goes like this, if you have worked for 35 plus years, you get the full pension, if less, it goes on a prorata basis, i.e. years worked over a formula.

 

As Simple1 replied in a previous reply on this post, he is of the opinion that it hasn't passed legislation yet, and if that is the case, for those of us who have worked for 35 years plus, we will not get our pensions cut down after 26 weeks away from Australia, that is, if we return to claim it, in my case 10 years away and will have to stay in Australia for 2 years to qualify, yes and absolute joke, because this rule would turn most of us off, because we know the cost to live in Sydney for those 2 years would cost more than the pension in rent alone.

 

F'n politicians, promise you when your young that if you work and pay your taxes, you will get a full pension, no talk about you not being able to get it if you decide to retire overseas earlier than the OAP age, so they make amendments to the legislation, year in, year out, trying to make it harder for us expats to get what we were told we would get originally, suffice to say, I wouldn't be surprised if the 2 year rule is lifted to 5 by the time I reach the OAP age, that or they put another amendment on it, e.g. making it no longer portable.....555

 

On the other hand if you live in Australia until you reach OAP age and worked 35 plus years, you can get the pension and take it with you, meaning for those of us who are smarter and exit the slave trade earlier and do not pay the additional taxes, in my case 10 years, they want to make life more difficult for me, by doing this, fortunately, I have enough to last me till I reach 101, suffice to say, if I can make it worth my while, I will go back and sit it out, just to stick it too them 555   

"They" did not make it more difficult for you. You chose not to pay the ferry man, so you dont get to the other side. Stop blaming others. Man up.

[sandgroper2]

5 hours ago, Grubster said:

All the elderly vote in the US making it more difficult to hammer us as they would like to do. Many times there has been plans to cut SS there but very few congressmen want their name on a bill like that. Not because they don't want it, but they want those votes.

          At some point your government may want to get their greedy hands on that Superannuation money too. First step would be to make withdrawals taxable at any age. I would bet that happens.

"First step would be to make withdrawals taxable at any age. I would bet that happens".  And so it should happen, draw your super, blow it, give up working then come crying to us tax payers for a handout. Collect tin cans and bottles.

[4MyEgo]

16 minutes ago, sandgroper2 said:

If you can prove you are medically unfit to return, you  cannot return, ignore myego ridiculous comments.

 

And you can back this up from ?

[4MyEgo]

32 minutes ago, sandgroper2 said:

Born  in Oz, worked, never left till age 55, then came to LOS for holidays twice a year, sometimes once a year, my holidays were usually for abut 6 months. Turned 65, got part old age pension. Never stayed Oz more than one month. Sup benefits stop after 26 weeks, i think. When i go  back to Oz , i intend to stay permanently, but change my mind after a coupla weeks and return to LOS. What may make a difference is that i am ex military, get military pension and pay Oz tax on it. Thats abut it ol son. Clear as muddy water , ay! I am  only a non resident in the eyes for the Dept Defence. Which   means stuff all. Bunch of <deleted>.

 

Thanks for the details, I would suggest in your case, you are deemed a resident as you paid taxes your military pension, albeit you got the OAP at 65 and could leave straight away, no 2 year waiting period.

 

Good for you, oy ! 

[sandgroper2]

16 minutes ago, Grubster said:

Yes about ten returns and I think that is nonsense someone told you, The only drawback I know of is that if you need Medicare later you have to back pay for some of what you didn't pay.  I have a VA disability and not a twenty or thirty year military pension, that could be different I don't know, but VA benefits can not be taxed. That said the only way anybody can touch VA benefits is if you owe taxes to the IRS, or if you go to prison they are canceled until you get out. You cannot lose them in a law suit, divorce or anything else. If you have Tricare because you are retired military then you must keep your Medicare.

By your terminology, your USA, not Oz!

[sandgroper2]

8 minutes ago, 4MyEgo said:

 

And you can back this up from ?

Let me get this right, " If you can prove you are medically unfit to return, you  cannot return, ".  And yu say "

And you can back this up from etc"..  I dont really think I can possibly answer your question. Try again.

[sandgroper2]

11 minutes ago, 4MyEgo said:

 

Thanks for the details, I would suggest in your case, you are deemed a resident as you paid taxes your military pension, albeit you got the OAP at 65 and could leave straight away, no 2 year waiting period.

 

Good for you, oy ! 

Me thinks you hit the nail on the head. However to muddy the waters a little, my military pension is a disability pension.

[Grubster]

14 minutes ago, sandgroper2 said:

By your terminology, your USA, not Oz!

Sorry I thought you knew from my earlier posts on this subject.

[sandgroper2]

I will put a spoke in everyone's wheel. You dont have to have paid tax for 35 years to get th e full OAP. I didnt and i get the full pension, means tested, I I will explain ,if anybody is interested, after i watch Millionair hotseat.

[louse1953]

On 12/7/2016 at 0:06 PM, Spock said:

Surely if you are in the country for 7 out of 12 months each of the last 2 years and hold an Australian residential address you qualify under the 2 year period?

Same as Thailand,every office gives a different interpretation.A mate was told if he stepped outside the country,the 2 year wait would reset to zero.Your line of thinking would suit me.