Visa for a child

[lassebasse]

This is about a friend of mine. He is Swedish and has been living in Thailand for many years, extension of stay based on retirement. He lives in Nong Khai with a Lao woman, They have had a village marriage in Lao, but nothing official since this is more or less impossible for Lao women. His "wife" does not have a visa for Thailand and just goes in and out as many Lao people do. Now they have had a child, born in Nong Khai and his first problems started when he applied for a Swedish passport to the child. Problem was that the local Ampoe in Nong Khai refused to issue a certificate of his Fatherhood, they only do that if one of the parents are Thai. And if he cannot prove that he is the father, no passport. Now after months of discussions with Swedish authorities the child will be given a Swedish passport thus becoming a Swedish citizen, which brings me to the big question. Can this Swedish child, living in Thailand, be given a visa as being depending of him? Obviously they cannot make references to the mother since she is not Thai and staying in the Kingdom more or less illegally.

 

What should his next step be?

Edited December 10, 2016 by lassebasse

[ubonjoe]

Does he a birth certificate for his child that was issued by an Amphoe that shows him as their father?

If yes he can get a dependent extension for his child based upon his extension for retirement. But the child would first have to get a single entry non-o visa at the embassy in Vientiane to apply for it. 

[lassebasse]

There is a Birth certificate from the Hospital, Amphoe refuses to issue anything since none of the parents are Thai. Since the child now will be given a Swedish passport he could probably get a Swedish official document saying that he is the father.

 

 

[lassebasse]

The Amphoe refuses to issue a birthcertificate on the grounds that none of the parents are Thai. There is a birthrecord from the hospital naming both parents. Since the child soon will be registered as Swedish the father will be able able to get official Swedish records stating him as the father.

Can his Lao common wife go the same way to get a visa for Thailand as dependant of him?

[sanemax]

6 minutes ago, lassebasse said:

The Amphoe refuses to issue a birthcertificate on the grounds that none of the parents are Thai.

 

   That should not be the case . ALL Children born in Thailand should be given a birth certificate , whether the parents are Thai or not .

   You have to go to the office within 15 days of the birth to get a B/C issued , its a legal requirement that the parents have to do , 

[sanemax]

3 hours ago, lassebasse said:

Can this Swedish child, living in Thailand, be given a visa as being depending of him?

 

    

Although the child is not Thai, he would still be considered as being Thai under Thai laws .

   It seems that the child is currently stateless , but he will have the right to remain in Thailand , without a Visa .

   Visas will only become an issue when he is taken out of Thailand and returns on his Swedish PP

[harrry]

Only a child who has one parent Thai is entitled to register a birth.  There is no right to one.

[sanemax]

1 minute ago, harrry said:

Only a child who has one parent Thai is entitled to register a birth.  There is no right to one.

 

   But the child will still be issued with a Birth certificate, even if neither of the parents are Thai

[harrry]

The child has the record of his or her birth from the hospital.  this is what is needed to get an identity from the embassy of the country of citizenship of the parents.  The same rules apply in many western countries now.

Edited December 10, 2016 by harrry

[sanemax]

4 minutes ago, harrry said:

The child has the record of his or her birth from the hospital.  this is what is needed to get an identity from the embassy of the country of citizenship of the parents.  The same rules apply in many western countries now.

 

    Are you talking about a Birth Certificate or just a record of Birth ?

A Birth certificate would be required to get the child a PP from any of his parents countries

[harrry]

No.  It is the record of birth.  The law is framed that way to ensure that people do not have children in a host country and then claim rights for the child and to live with the child which would subvert normal immigration policies.  Personally I do not agree with it but it is not just Thailand this applies in.

[TerryLH]

In this case, the birth certificate will clearly indicate that the child is not Thai.

But a birth certificate should still be issued.

 

 

"Although the child is not Thai, he would still be considered as being Thai under Thai laws ."

 

Which law(s) would that be?

 

[sanemax]

10 minutes ago, harrry said:

No.  It is the record of birth.  The law is framed that way to ensure that people do not have children in a host country and then claim rights for the child and to live with the child which would subvert normal immigration policies.  Personally I do not agree with it but it is not just Thailand this applies in.

 

    Sorry, but having a Thai Birth Certificate doesnt give the child any rights as a Thai citizen or for them to get Thai ID. Having a non Thai Child born in Thailand doesnt give the parents any rights either .

   Children are required by law to get issued with a B/C if they were born in Thailand , if neither parent is Thai, the B/C will have "Non Thai" clearly written at the top

[sanemax]

6 minutes ago, TerryLH said:

 

"Although the child is not Thai, he would still be considered as being Thai under Thai laws ."

 

Which law(s) would that be?

 

 

    Its quite complex, so forgive me for being vague : Laws about taking Children out the Country , laws about them having to attend school , Laws about which parent has custody if any disputes arise , that kind of thing .

    Under Thai law, unmarried Fathers have no parental rights , simply saying that "The child isnt Thai, so that law doesnt apply" dosent work in gaining custody

[harrry]

This could prove a very complex situation.

The child is allowed to remain in thailand with limited rights as a Stateless person born in Thailand.  The child is being issued with Swedish citizenship.  Hence no longer a stateless person.  Will the child have to leave Thailand or be considered on overstay. (I realise there is no penalty for overstay for children).

[lostinisaan]

25 minutes ago, TerryLH said:

In this case, the birth certificate will clearly indicate that the child is not Thai.

But a birth certificate should still be issued.

 

 

"Although the child is not Thai, he would still be considered as being Thai under Thai laws ."

 

Which law(s) would that be?

 

 

 

 

    There's no such law. A birth given in Thailand doesn't make the child to a Thai citizen if neither mom nor dad's Thai. And the mother's here illegally. People from Laos can't just get into Thailand and out without the right visa.

 

 

Edited December 10, 2016 by lostinisaan

[sanemax]

4 hours ago, harrry said:

This could prove a very complex situation.

The child is allowed to remain in thailand with limited rights as a Stateless person born in Thailand.  The child is being issued with Swedish citizenship.  Hence no longer a stateless person.  Will the child have to leave Thailand or be considered on overstay. (I realise there is no penalty for overstay for children).

 

   The child will become Swedish when he leaves Thailand and then comes back on a Visa , the child could them lost his right to stay in Thailand . Which wouldnt be too much of an issue now, but he could well find himself getting sent back to Sweden when he reaches 20 years old , or he would have to get himself some kind of Thai visa to stay in Thailand .

   The best thing to do would be to get him a Swedish PP and not use it and tuck it away somewhere 

[JackThompson]

Why not get married somewhere that the Lao authorities are not a factor?  That would allow the wife to stay as his dependent.  As to the child, I don't know the law well enough to say which path is best.  But the mother becoming his wife, via marriage in a 3rd country (Singapore?), could at least fix that problem.  Having mom remain illegal doesn't seem like a stable long-term family plan.

[sanemax]

It is possible for Laotions to get married to foregners in Laos

[lassebasse]

I do not think so.

[ubonjoe]

56 minutes ago, sanemax said:

It is possible for Laotions to get married to foregners in Laos

Yes but very difficult to do. Most get married outside the country.

One TV member got married in the UK earlier this year to his long time Laotian girl friend.

[brewsterbudgen]

33 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

Yes but very difficult to do. Most get married outside the country.

One TV member got married in the UK earlier this year to his long time Laotian girl friend.

 

Indeed I did.  We married in the UK, after looking at the possibility of marrying in Hong Kong or Singapore.  Marrying in Laos (or Thailand) was out of the question as we already had a child.

 

In answer to the OP's problem, he needs to get the Thai birth certificate.  We had no issues getting one, although the hospital (in Pattaya) processed all the paper work for us and I just collected it from the Amphur.  Without a birth certificate I doubt it will be possible for the child to get a passport.  The exception would be getting a Lao passport, as this can be done by just having the child registered in the Lao house book.  But a Lao passport isn't very useful and Laos does not allow dual nationality.  It sounds like the local Amphur is just unfamiliar with dealing with non-Thai parents.  Maybe a lawyer could convince them otherwise?

Edited December 11, 2016 by brewsterbudgen

[groovyc]

On 11/12/2016 at 0:58 AM, harrry said:

No.  It is the record of birth.  The law is framed that way to ensure that people do not have children in a host country and then claim rights for the child and to live with the child which would subvert normal immigration policies.  Personally I do not agree with it but it is not just Thailand this applies in.

This looks to me as a gross misinterpretation of what a Birth Certificate is (as opposed to a Citizenship Certificate). By "this", I don't mean your post, but this whole scenario. It may even be the law if you are right, or the Ampoe misinterpreted the law.