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Leader of Israel’s parliament denies “Taliban” attitude to female dress code

Robert Hackwill

 

 

JERUSALEM: -- The speaker of the Israeli parliament has gone on national radio in a bid to defuse a growing scandal about parliamentary dress codes that sparked a protest outside the national assembly.

 

Knesset guards about 10 days ago, following revision of the house’s dress codes, began turning away women for being inappropriately dressed, mainly for skirt hemlines deemed too short.

 

“In recent days visitors and consultants at the Knesset began saying that they were not being allowed in and were humiliated at the entrance because they were arriving in dresses, as they have done every day for years. We have decided to examine what is the Knesset’s dress code. It was apparently changed without informing us. We came here as we do every morning. No-one is trying to provoke, just trying to go to work and we are being stopped because of bare knees,” said parliamentary aide Kessem Rosenblat.

 

Some commentators have noted the row is a symptom of what some identify as an increasing encroachment of religion into public and political life, and an increasingly conservative Jerusalem.

 

Israel’s parliament is considered one of the most informal in the world, but jeans and open-toed sandals are banned, although rules against these forms of attire and other sartorial lapses have rarely been enforced.

 

-- © Copyright Euronews 2016-12-16

 

[Enoon]

 

I thought it was the other way around.

 

Didn't Islam crib the food rules, dress/appearance codes and attitude to women from Judaism?

 

 

Edited December 16, 2016 by Enoon

[Jingthing]

21 minutes ago, Enoon said:

 

I thought it was the other way around.

 

Didn't Islam crib the food rules, dress/appearance codes and attitude to women from Judaism?

 

 

Good one.
Blame the Taliban on the Jews.

So predictable. 

[7by7]

5 hours ago, Andaman Al said:

Jingthing, they are not pitching up dressed like Borat are they? Isn't that a rather juvenile comparison? They are being turned away because they are wearing skirts/dresses which show their knees visible. You of all people should be defending the rights of those people to wear whatever clothing they wish and not to have it dictated by some religious interpretation 2500 years old.

 

Jingthing has very liberal views, many of which I agree with, on many matters.

 

But when it comes to anything critical of Israel he will blindly defend them; right or wrong.

 

It seems to me that Israel is becoming more and more Orthodox, so I expect to see more reports such as the OP.

 

Will all of Israel one day go this far?

 

Ultra-Orthodox Jewish women with their children in the Mea Shearim neighbourhood of Jerusalem, Israel, 25 February 2013, during celebrations of the holiday of Purim. Photo by EPA

 

It's already started: Israeli Culture Ministry to Issue 'Modesty' Guidelines for Government-funded Events

Quote

The decision was made following the Celebrate August festival in Ashdod, in which a female singer dressed in shorts, a bikini top and an open shirt was removed from the stage.

 

[Jingthing]

Anyway, I really think the news story in the O.P. is incredibly trivial. Strictly an INTERNAL Israeli matter.

 

Really, dudes, think about it for a second, if the parliament in Poland mildly changed their dress code, for women, men, or both, do you think it would even be a big news story in Poland? 

 

That said, there is important news in Poland and important news in Israel.

 

Just today, there was REALLY MAJOR news impacting on Israel. About a million times of more potential consequence than a story about skirt lengths. No, won't bring it up here. 

 

 

[Andaman Al]

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

Anyway, I really think the news story in the O.P. is incredibly trivial. Strictly an INTERNAL Israeli matter.

 

Really, dudes, think about it for a second, if the parliament in Poland mildly changed their dress code, for women, men, or both, do you think it would even be a big news story in Poland? 

 

That said, there is important news in Poland and important news in Israel.

 

Just today, there was REALLY MAJOR news impacting on Israel. About a million times of more potential consequence than a story about skirt lengths. No, won't bring it up here. 

 

 

 

So why do you always go on about abuses in Saudi Arabia, the execution of Gays, the suppression/oppression of women, surely that is just strictly an INTERNAL Saudi matter?

 

Yes if the parliament in Poland dictated dress codes beyond the society norm it would be big news.

 

7by7 in post 6 hit the nail squarely on the head.

 

2 hours ago, 7by7 said:

 

Jingthing has very liberal views, many of which I agree with, on many matters.

 

But when it comes to anything critical of Israel he will blindly defend them; right or wrong

 

[Stargeezr]

Wow 7by7,   I am not sure where  you   got  that  picture,  but those

guys  are  sure dressed  from head to   toe   and   beyond.

   Being  Orthodox  is  one  thing.  Being  extreme is another.

[simon43]

 We have decided to examine what is the Knesset’s dress code. It was apparently changed without informing us. 

 

So who changed the dress code?  And why?  

 

Are knees in the Kneeset inappropriate?

[Cats4ever]

These petty issues are important in hard right religo countries everywhere.

[Jingthing]

These petty issues are important in hard right religo countries everywhere.

Like Thailand?

[Andaman Al]

9 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Like Thailand?

The subject of the thread is ISRAEL.

[Morch]

10 hours ago, Stargrazer9889 said:

Wow 7by7,   I am not sure where  you   got  that  picture,  but those

guys  are  sure dressed  from head to   toe   and   beyond.

   Being  Orthodox  is  one  thing.  Being  extreme is another.

 

These are women.

 

20 hours ago, 7by7 said:

 

Jingthing has very liberal views, many of which I agree with, on many matters.

 

But when it comes to anything critical of Israel he will blindly defend them; right or wrong.

 

It seems to me that Israel is becoming more and more Orthodox, so I expect to see more reports such as the OP.

 

Will all of Israel one day go this far?

 

Ultra-Orthodox Jewish women with their children in the Mea Shearim neighbourhood of Jerusalem, Israel, 25 February 2013, during celebrations of the holiday of Purim. Photo by EPA

 

It's already started: Israeli Culture Ministry to Issue 'Modesty' Guidelines for Government-funded Events

 

 

The picture posted relates to a specific, tiny and controversial sect within the ultra-orthodox Jewish community. They are commonly nicknamed "The Taliban Women". The harshest condemnation, by the way, comes from "mainstream" ultra-orthodox Jews. Not that it should deter you from posting further misleading and hyperbolic nonsense.

 

Haredi burqa sect

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haredi_burqa_sect

Edited December 17, 2016 by Morch

[Jingthing]

It's just the usual Israel and/or Jewish demonization propaganda. The gall to suggest that it is a common thing among Jews or widely spreading.

 

Total crap.

 

As far as Israel getting more conservative and more of a theocracy than secular people would prefer, perhaps it is, but again on trivial matters of dress code in parliament that's really their internal business. I wouldn't expect Israelis to care about the dress code in U.S. congress and not sure why anyone outside Israel would strongly care about such a code in Israel, though if I were Israeli of course I would care and would oppose creeping towards prudery. I get why the obsessive Israel demonization agenda tries to inflate such trivia ... any negative thing they can peg on Israel they milk it for days. 

 

When a nation gets into more extreme stuff like stoning adulterers, then that bleeds into something of substantive and much more LEGITIMATE international concern.

Edited December 17, 2016 by Jingthing

[Morch]

8 hours ago, simon43 said:

 

 

 

So who changed the dress code?  And why?  

 

Are knees in the Kneeset inappropriate?

 

It was changed by the Knesset's director general, who is not affiliated with ultra-orthodox parties. There is still some argument regarding who's authority it is to introduce such changes and how they ought to be applied. As this pertains to politicians, a committee was formed to look into it. The "new" dress code is suspended.

 

In Wake of Skirt Protest: Knesset Suspends Dress Code Until New One Is Drafted

http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/1.759101

 

[Morch]

2 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

It's just the usual Israel and/or Jewish demonization propaganda. The gall to suggest that it is a common thing among Jews. Total crap.

 

As far as Israel getting more conservative, perhaps it is, but again on trivial matters of dress code in parliament that's really their internal business. I wouldn't expect Israelis to care about the dress code in U.S. congress and not sure why anyone outside would sincerely care about such a code in Israel, though if I were Israeli of course I would care and would oppose creeping towards prudery.

 

When a nation gets into more extreme stuff like stoning adulterers, then that bleeds into something of substantive international concern.

 

Not to rain on your parade, but similar stories occurring in other countries do appear on Israeli news from time to time. Reports on the shenanigans in foreign parliaments feature on new everywhere.

 

 

[Jingthing]

2 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

Not to rain on your parade, but similar stories occurring in other countries do appear on Israeli news from time to time. Reports on the shenanigans in foreign parliaments feature on new everywhere.

 

 

It may be news, but don't really get why anyone outside those countries would CARE if you're talking about a minor change in dress code internally. If you're talking about forcing all women to go total cover, that's extreme, and surely you get the difference. 

You can see very well this trivial controversy is fodder for Israel demonization when it's really just not very important, even in Israel. 

[Morch]

6 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

It may be news, but don't really get why anyone outside those countries would CARE if you're talking about a minor change in dress code internally. If you're talking about forcing all women to go total cover, that's extreme, and surely you get the difference. 

You can see very well this trivial controversy is fodder for Israel demonization when it's really just not very important, even in Israel. 

 

You get the same stories all over the world, with pretty much similar comments. It's more of a "thing" when a country is supposedly practicing Western social norms. That some posters here are quick to blow it out of proportion is a given.

 

I wouldn't know it's not "very important" in Israel, though. Most of the related MK's subscribe to your US "resistance" style perceptions when it comes to these matters. And if I might say so, they have more concrete cause to justify their reactions.

[7by7]

48 minutes ago, Morch said:

<snip>

The picture posted relates to a specific, tiny and controversial sect within the ultra-orthodox Jewish community. They are commonly nicknamed "The Taliban Women". The harshest condemnation, by the way, comes from "mainstream" ultra-orthodox Jews. Not that it should deter you from posting further misleading and hyperbolic nonsense.

 

Haredi burqa sect

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haredi_burqa_sect

 

Yes, the women in the picture do belong to an ultra Orthodox sect. Most Jewish women do not wear Burkas; just as most Muslim women don't.

 

Many orthodox Jewish women do, though, like  many Muslim women, dress modestly and cover their hair in public. I see hat every time I go to Stamford Hill in London.

 

The choice of dress of some Muslim women is used by many (not you) as proof that Islam is a misogynistic religion which subjugates women and treats them as possessions. Yet they ignore other religions, such as both Judaism and Christianity, where some women dress modestly.

 

I am disappointed that you chose to ignore the final part of my post

21 hours ago, 7by7 said:

It's already started: Israeli Culture Ministry to Issue 'Modesty' Guidelines for Government-funded Events

Quote

The decision was made following the Celebrate August festival in Ashdod, in which a female singer dressed in shorts, a bikini top and an open shirt was removed from the stage.

 

 

My point being that the Israeli government itself is starting to enforce stricter dress codes on women, not just in government buildings but also at government sponsored events.

 

The question is; why?

 

Jingthing is trying to paint this as of no consequence, calling the story

33 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

this trivial dress code canard. 

Yes, there are apparently more important things happening in that part of the world.

 

Like Israeli government's continued support of the illegal settlements, support apparently shared by the US president elect.

 

But Israel likes to paint itself as an island of Western democracy and values in a sea of Islamic oppression.

 

Enforcing such dress codes on women by the government itself damages that image.

 

Those who support the Israeli government should be more concerned about addressing that rather than merely dismissing this as a trivial, internal matter and the story merely an attempt to demonise Israel!

[Morch]

24 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

 

Yes, the women in the picture do belong to an ultra Orthodox sect. Most Jewish women do not wear Burkas; just as most Muslim women don't.

 

Many orthodox Jewish women do, though, like  many Muslim women, dress modestly and cover their hair in public. I see hat every time I go to Stamford Hill in London.

 

The choice of dress of some Muslim women is used by many (not you) as proof that Islam is a misogynistic religion which subjugates women and treats them as possessions. Yet they ignore other religions, such as both Judaism and Christianity, where some women dress modestly.

 

I am disappointed that you chose to ignore the final part of my post

 

My point being that the Israeli government itself is starting to enforce stricter dress codes on women, not just in government buildings but also at government sponsored events.

 

The question is; why?

 

Jingthing is trying to paint this as of no consequence, calling the story

Yes, there are apparently more important things happening in that part of the world.

 

Like Israeli government's continued support of the illegal settlements, support apparently shared by the US president elect.

 

But Israel likes to paint itself as an island of Western democracy and values in a sea of Islamic oppression.

 

Enforcing such dress codes on women by the government itself damages that image.

 

Those who support the Israeli government should be more concerned about addressing that rather than merely dismissing this as a trivial, internal matter and the story merely an attempt to demonise Israel!

 

I get it that almost any remotely related topic will be used to present your pro-Muslim agenda. That is a given. Still doesn't make for a particularly honest posting - using this specific picture, knowing it is not representative, and making a hyperbolic claim that it may be so in the future. May I suggest that your usual tirade on the evils of posters going on against Muslims is off topic?

 

As for being "disappointed", what can I tell you? Take a number. Not addressing all of your usual linked tidbits or playing your agenda games is not the same as condoning things or ignoring issues. If you have any further doubts check out post #4 on this topic, got a "like" from me.

 

I'm not exactly party to JT's views on this topic, same goes for "support the Israeli government" - barking up the wrong tree once more.

[7by7]

4 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

I get it that almost any remotely related topic will be used to present your pro-Muslim agenda. That is a given. Still doesn't make for a particularly honest posting - using this specific picture, knowing it is not representative, and making a hyperbolic claim that it may be so in the future. May I suggest that your usual tirade on the evils of posters going on against Muslims is off topic?

 

As for being "disappointed", what can I tell you? Take a number. Not addressing all of your usual linked tidbits or playing your agenda games is not the same as condoning things or ignoring issues. If you have any further doubts check out post #4 on this topic, got a "like" from me.

 

I'm not exactly party to JT's views on this topic, same goes for "support the Israeli government" - barking up the wrong tree once more.

 

I am not a supporter of Islam per se; I am a supporter of freedom of religion. I am not, as suggested by some, a supporter of Islamic terrorism nor terrorism by anyone.

 

The point of my comparison between the dress codes of some Islamic, Jewish and Christian (yes, Christian; I did mention them as well) sects should have been obvious to all except the most prejudiced of members here. I expected a reaction such as yours from certain people, but not you.

 

Instead I expected from you, if anything, a rational response addressing the implementation and increasing enforcement of women's dress codes by the Israeli government; such a shame that was not forthcoming.

[Jingthing]

 
You get the same stories all over the world, with pretty much similar comments. It's more of a "thing" when a country is supposedly practicing Western social norms. That some posters here are quick to blow it out of proportion is a given.
 
I wouldn't know it's not "very important" in Israel, though. Most of the related MK's subscribe to your US "resistance" style perceptions when it comes to these matters. And if I might say so, they have more concrete cause to justify their reactions.

You might say. You did say. I do understand that some Israelis would be upset by this. I can't understand why you don't think trump becoming president is a big deal. Hey you brought it up.

[Morch]

17 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

You might say. You did say. I do understand that some Israelis would be upset by this. I can't understand why you don't think trump becoming president is a big deal. Hey you brought it up.

 

The difference being that the religious-secular status quo in Israel is being put to the test in recent years, both as a result of demographic changes and due to political necessities. This is a real, ongoing situation with tangible effects. Trump might turn up to be a lot of things, but most of the stuff warned against by your "resistance" is yet to materialize. I never said Trump becoming president is not a big deal - and you know it.

[Morch]

24 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

 

I am not a supporter of Islam per se; I am a supporter of freedom of religion. I am not, as suggested by some, a supporter of Islamic terrorism nor terrorism by anyone.

 

The point of my comparison between the dress codes of some Islamic, Jewish and Christian (yes, Christian; I did mention them as well) sects should have been obvious to all except the most prejudiced of members here. I expected a reaction such as yours from certain people, but not you.

 

Instead I expected from you, if anything, a rational response addressing the implementation and increasing enforcement of women's dress codes by the Israeli government; such a shame that was not forthcoming.

 

Once again, this topic is not about Islam or terrorism. I think my position could be inferred from posts, likes and links provided. It does not match your blowing things out of proportion, nor using them to advance your usual pet agendas. 

 

Allow me to disagree, the point of your comparison was damage control. Look, they are just as bad as the lot you people rile against. And to achieve this comparison you used dishonest means (re picture). Trying to portray my responses as anything but rational is simply disingenuous. That I have no wish to partake in your further agenda driven attempts is understandably disappointing for you. There there.

[metisdead]

A troll post has been removed as well as a reply.  An off topic post from another topic has been removed as well. 

[Grouse]

23 hours ago, 7by7 said:

 

Jingthing has very liberal views, many of which I agree with, on many matters.

 

But when it comes to anything critical of Israel he will blindly defend them; right or wrong.

 

It seems to me that Israel is becoming more and more Orthodox, so I expect to see more reports such as the OP.

 

Will all of Israel one day go this far?

 

Ultra-Orthodox Jewish women with their children in the Mea Shearim neighbourhood of Jerusalem, Israel, 25 February 2013, during celebrations of the holiday of Purim. Photo by EPA

 

It's already started: Israeli Culture Ministry to Issue 'Modesty' Guidelines for Government-funded Events

 

 

I'm with Richard Dawkins on this: Do what you like (in the privacy of your own home) but for god's sake don't make children dress in ridiculous outfits until they're old enough to take rational decisions for themselves.

 

As for adults, just dress appropriately. The next Aussie that sits next to me on an aeroplane dressed in a singlet, WILL regret it...(unless it's a woman)

[7by7]

2 hours ago, Morch said:

 

Once again, this topic is not about Islam or terrorism. I think my position could be inferred from posts, likes and links provided. It does not match your blowing things out of proportion, nor using them to advance your usual pet agendas. 

 

Allow me to disagree, the point of your comparison was damage control. Look, they are just as bad as the lot you people rile against. And to achieve this comparison you used dishonest means (re picture). Trying to portray my responses as anything but rational is simply disingenuous. That I have no wish to partake in your further agenda driven attempts is understandably disappointing for you. There there.

 

I would remind you that the comparison with radical Islam was originally brought up in the topic title, which is also the headline of the article in the OP!

 

No agenda here, except to expose the hypocrisy of some.

 

I originally said I did not include you among the hypocrites, but now I'm beginning to wonder.

[7by7]

2 hours ago, Jingthing said:

You might say. You did say. I do understand that some Israelis would be upset by this. I can't understand why you don't think trump becoming president is a big deal. Hey you brought it up.

 

I have been lambasted for comparing strict Jewish dress codes to strict Islamic ones (I also compared them to strict Christian ones, but that doesn't seem to bother him!); being accused of going off topic to pursue my agenda, whatever that is.

 

Some may agree with him, some may not.

 

But surely even you must know that Trump becoming president is not the subject of this topic!

 

There are plenty of other topics on that very subject where you can, and often have, aired your views on that.

[Morch]

24 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

 

I would remind you that the comparison with radical Islam was originally brought up in the topic title, which is also the headline of the article in the OP!

 

No agenda here, except to expose the hypocrisy of some.

 

I originally said I did not include you among the hypocrites, but now I'm beginning to wonder.

 

The comparison in the headline is as hyperbolic as your first post was.

As for "no agenda", try that on someone who haven't plowed through hundreds, if not more, of your posts.

Couldn't care less how you categorize me.

[Naam]

On 12/16/2016 at 1:44 PM, Jingthing said:

Good one.
Blame the Taliban on the Jews.

So predictable. 

Quote

On 12/16/2016 at 1:22 PM, Enoon said:

I thought it was the other way around.

 

Didn't Islam crib the food rules, dress/appearance codes and attitude to women from Judaism?

your twisting and playing the usual "card" is not justified JT. Enoon stated a wellknown fact. whether you like it or not.

[Thorgal]

 
The picture posted relates to a specific, tiny and controversial sect within the ultra-orthodox Jewish community. They are commonly nicknamed "The Taliban Women". The harshest condemnation, by the way, comes from "mainstream" ultra-orthodox Jews. Not that it should deter you from posting further misleading and hyperbolic nonsense.
 
Haredi burqa sect
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haredi_burqa_sect

At least the Haredim aren't a political detail in the Israeli political landscape. They count for almost 10% of the total Israeli population.

Referring to 'Taliban' is rather misplaced if you consider the long history of Haredi opposition to the creation of the State of Israel.

Furthermore any alliance with the growing Arab Israeli population of 20% could be decisive for any future elections. Both groups have high birth rates compared to the more secular groups...



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