Trump picks hardline pro-settlement lawyer as ambassador to Israel

[Morch]

20 minutes ago, Rob13 said:

 

Not equivalent;  Putin's a dictator. Netanyahu 's an elected official representing Israel, same way trump will represent the US.

 

 

 

Putin was elected, may want to check your facts. Could have been less than straightforward, yes - but there were elections, and there's an opposition - even if it's powerless. In what way does Putin not represent Russia, then?

 

Netanyahu represents Israel, but that does not make his views those of Israel. Same goes for Trump. Netanyahu's opposition is more sizeable than Putin's, and yet some prefer to apply things backwards.

[Rob13]

17 minutes ago, Morch said:

Putin was elected, may want to check your facts.

 

 

I didn't say he wasn't. 

[Andaman Al]

1 hour ago, Morch said:

 

Hyperbole and speculation presented as fact. Was there a war declared? Are the sky about to fall?

Last eight years, there were a whole lot more than many (or even MANY) people dying. The POTUS was Obama.

 

 

I gave a prediction on the result of 'fireworks'. Not fact nor was it presented as such. Obama has spent 8 years trying to extricate the USA from a policy of invasion started by Bush. But you know that, so don't be disingenuous. 

 

1 hour ago, Morch said:

The US operates a consulate in Jerusalem, and holds the title deed for the next plot, on which there's a rundown hotel

Room for the next Trump Towers then, how cool! "Come and experience Jerusalem, stay in the Nazerine Suite and experience fine dining with our fixed themed 'last supper' menu 80% discounts for Christians and Jews.

 

If so called 'normal' people cannot see the folly of putting a right wing Jewish bankruptcy lawyer as the US Ambassador to Isreal then those normal people deserve everything that is coming. The blood will be on your hands, think on that. Trump voters and supporters will be responsible.  Rationalise that blood on your hands with your God when your time comes.

 

You want Armageddon, the second coming and the rapture? Well you are one step closer. (interestingly a little known fact was that President Chirac was told by George W Bush concerning the Iraq War - "“This confrontation is willed by God, who wants to use this conflict to erase his people’s enemies before a New Age begins”).

 

Hey with Friedman, Mad Dog and a closet Russian Sec of State obsessed with oil, what could possibly go wrong in the Middle East in the next 4 years?  

Edited December 17, 2016 by Andaman Al

[Strange]

Yawn ^^^

[Strange]

8 hours ago, Andaman Al said:

Agreed, and what the Trumpeteer's don't seem to realise is that those fireworks will result in the deaths of MANY people, while they all sit back and watch it on the news from their sofa, whilst slurping another 2 Ltr coke, saying 'how terrible'.

 

Straight-up BS. 

 

Rhetoric level X 1000

[Andaman Al]

11 minutes ago, Strange said:

 

Straight-up BS. 

 

Rhetoric level X 1000

Whats the rhetoric? The 2 Ltr coke?

 

19 minutes ago, Strange said:

Yawn ^^^

 

That is the level of education that has led to the current situation of the US being up S**t Creek without a paddle. If you were not going to take the world down with you I would not waste my breath or finger strokes. Build the wall all the way around, let nobody out or in, we will all be better off.

[Strange]

3 minutes ago, Andaman Al said:

Whats the rhetoric? The 2 Ltr coke?

 

 

That is the level of education that has led to the current situation of the US being up S**t Creek without a paddle. If you were not going to take the world down with you I would not waste my breath or finger strokes. Build the wall all the way around, let nobody out or in, we will all be better off.

 

The rhetoric? 

 

Everything you post in regards to the US. 

 

Happy to bring you down with me. 

[Morch]

55 minutes ago, Rob13 said:

 

 

I didn't say he wasn't. 

 

You said Putin was a dictator while Netanyahu was an elected official.

[Morch]

37 minutes ago, Andaman Al said:

I gave a prediction on the result of 'fireworks'. Not fact nor was it presented as such. Obama has spent 8 years trying to extricate the USA from a policy of invasion started by Bush. But you know that, so don't be disingenuous. 

 

Room for the next Trump Towers then, how cool! "Come and experience Jerusalem, stay in the Nazerine Suite and experience fine dining with our fixed themed 'last supper' menu 80% discounts for Christians and Jews.

 

If so called 'normal' people cannot see the folly of putting a right wing Jewish bankruptcy lawyer as the US Ambassador to Isreal then those normal people deserve everything that is coming. The blood will be on your hands, think on that. Trump voters and supporters will be responsible.  Rationalise that blood on your hands with your God when your time comes.

 

You want Armageddon, the second coming and the rapture? Well you are one step closer. (interestingly a little known fact was that President Chirac was told by George W Bush concerning the Iraq War - "“This confrontation is willed by God, who wants to use this conflict to erase his people’s enemies before a New Age begins”).

 

Hey with Friedman, Mad Dog and a closet Russian Sec of State obsessed with oil, what could possibly go wrong in the Middle East in the next 4 years?  

 

A prediction usually comes with a qualification. You stated that "those fireworks will result in the deaths of MANY people". With regard to Obama, I wasn't specifically referring to Iraq, basically every conflict the US was involved in tended to have many people losing their lives. Same goes for conflicts the US chooses to stay away from. I am not a fan of Trump or his apparent stand on issues relating to Russia and Israel, but when it comes to the ME, the "prediction" seems independent of who's POTUS and Russia - dunno how that even applies.

 

The rest of your rant sounds unhinged, or perhaps you were responding to someone else. Blood on who's hands? What God are you on about? Armageddon?

 

Apparently not keeping up - Friedman is pro-illegal-settlements, Mattis is opposed to them, and also not that keen on Russia. The pro-Russian one is Flynn.

 

 

[Grouse]

You're being very unkind to that nice Mr Trump. He's just starting out and doesn't like to hire people smarter than himself. There are only 350M people in America so it must be hard for him to find suitable people. Give him a break...

Edited December 17, 2016 by Grouse

[Rob13]

26 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

You said Putin was a dictator while Netanyahu was an elected official.

 

Netanyahu is an elected official representing Israel, he's left the democracy in tact, people with dissenting opinions can still speak their opinions in Israel. Judging from his dismal approval ratings he probably won't last much longer as PM because someone else will be elected.

 

Putin  has pretty much destroyed the democracy in Russia. He's made the laws so he can keep his position indefinitely,  dissenters are not free to voice their opinion. You can't really say he represents the people if the people aren't free to voice their opinions. Putin represents Putin.

 

Big differences between the two positions. 

Edited December 17, 2016 by Rob13

[Andaman Al]

48 minutes ago, Strange said:

 

Happy to bring you down with me. 

 

You have more chance of platting fog.   

[dunroaming]

45 minutes ago, Andaman Al said:

Whats the rhetoric? The 2 Ltr coke?

 

 

That is the level of education that has led to the current situation of the US being up S**t Creek without a paddle. If you were not going to take the world down with you I would not waste my breath or finger strokes. Build the wall all the way around, let nobody out or in, we will all be better off.

 

I feel the same, Trump's presidency will affect the whole world and as I live in it I will keep banging on about the disaster that this will probably bring.  This is not about left versus right  or republicans against democrats, this is a serious threat to the world's stability.

[Morch]

16 minutes ago, Rob13 said:

 

Netanyahu is an elected official representing Israel, he's left the democracy in tact, people with dissenting opinions can still speak their opinions in Israel. Judging from his dismal approval ratings he probably won't last much longer as PM because someone else will be elected.

 

Putin  has pretty much destroyed the democracy in Russia. He's made the laws so he can keep his position indefinitely, people  with dissenters are not free to voice their opinion.  

 

Big differences between the two positions. 

 

The views Netanyahu holds and airs are not "Israel's" as such, in the same manner that Putin's aren't necessarily "Russia". When saying Trump panders to Putin and Israel, it carries the message that Israel's views are a constant - regardless of who is in power.

 

Netanyahu, by the way, isn't going anywhere, approval ratings notwithstanding. He managed to position himself as having no real alternative, and plays election campaigns like a pro - got to hand him this. The only way he'll be out of office is if one of the several court cases he's involved in would result in a trial. But then he'd been pretty ruthless about appointing the "right" people to the posts which have a say in this.

[Rob13]

29 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

The views Netanyahu holds and airs are not "Israel's" as such, in the same manner that Putin's aren't necessarily "Russia". When saying Trump panders to Putin and Israel, it carries the message that Israel's views are a constant - regardless of who is in power.

 

Netanyahu, by the way, isn't going anywhere, approval ratings notwithstanding. He managed to position himself as having no real alternative, and plays election campaigns like a pro - got to hand him this. The only way he'll be out of office is if one of the several court cases he's involved in would result in a trial. But then he'd been pretty ruthless about appointing the "right" people to the posts which have a say in this.

 

I don't know where you're going with this,  my point is; the US and Israel are both representative democracies. The leaders represent their countries and has to answer to them in elections and through the checks and balances set up in the gov't. Putin on the other hand is a dictator and doesn't answer to his 'electorate', IMHO he doesn't represent Russia, just his own megalomania. 

 

Netanyahu's proved himself to be  a shrewd politician but he's been on the losing side of the approval ratings this year. If he can't turn things around he'll be gone.

Quote

 it carries the message that Israel's views are a constant - regardless of who is in power.

 

 

I expect Israelto continue being anti-Arab regardless who's PM, which should make for some pretty good fireworks, seeing how trump is pandering to both Israel and pro-Arab Putin.

Edited December 17, 2016 by Rob13

[Morch]

9 minutes ago, Rob13 said:

 

I don't know where you're going with this,  my point is; the US and Israel are both representative democracies. The leaders represent their countries and has to answer to them in elections and through the checks and balances set up in the gov't. Putin on the other hand is a dictator and doesn't answer to his 'electorate', IMHO he doesn't represent Russia, just his own megalomania. 

 

Netanyahu's proved himself to be  a shrewd politician but he's been on the losing side of the approval ratings this year. If he can't turn things around he'll be gone.

 

I think that, in general, the concept of "representing the country" eroded over time. Many of the democratically elected leaders actually represent sectarian or business interests more than anything else. Equating countries and their leaders on matters of policy sometimes appears to be an open question rather than the previously assumed norm.

 

Netanyahu, for example, is tied to right wing sponsors in the US, suspiciously advocates or blocks various economic policies, and openly incites against opposing sectors of Israeli politics and society. I get it that he's elected to represent, but doubt what he actually does is it.

 

Wouldn't take any approval ratings or polls seriously, especially mid-term. As a reminder, he was down in the polls just before the last elections, only to win again. Sounds depressingly familiar, eh? The point is that the alternative candidates do not get a whole lot better ratings and support, and then there's a coalition to be put together - which spells another advantage.

[dexterm]

From the OP...
“A Trump administration will never pressure Israel into a two-state solution or any other solution that is against the wishes of the Israeli people,” he told a pro-Trump rally in Jerusalem in October.

 

So it looks like a one state solution becoming inevitable. 
Fine. The charades will be over.

 

Will some journalist at the next Trump/David Friedman press conference please ask them what they think Israel will do with the 4.5 million Palestinians they currently occupy if there is to be a fundamental change in US foreign policy and they no longer support a two state solution.

 

Equal citizenship, overt apartheid, or ethnic cleansing?

 

And will the US, as Friedman above avows, support whichever of these solutions the Israeli people wish?

[Scott]

Off-topic posts removed.  

[elgordo38]

12 hours ago, Jingthing said:

It should. He's beyond horrible. 

He could be one of those "they walk among us" people. 

[Rob13]

12 hours ago, dexterm said:

Equal citizenship, overt apartheid, or ethnic cleansing?

 

 

The obvious question that's swept under the rug. Time the policy makers step up and answer it.

[Morch]

13 hours ago, Rob13 said:

 

I don't know where you're going with this,  my point is; the US and Israel are both representative democracies. The leaders represent their countries and has to answer to them in elections and through the checks and balances set up in the gov't. Putin on the other hand is a dictator and doesn't answer to his 'electorate', IMHO he doesn't represent Russia, just his own megalomania. 

 

Netanyahu's proved himself to be  a shrewd politician but he's been on the losing side of the approval ratings this year. If he can't turn things around he'll be gone.

 

I expect Israelto continue being anti-Arab regardless who's PM, which should make for some pretty good fireworks, seeing how trump is pandering to both Israel and pro-Arab Putin.

 

Haven't seen the last edited bit earlier -

 

Quote

I expect Israel to continue being anti-Arab regardless who's PM, which should make for some pretty good fireworks, seeing how trump is pandering to both Israel and pro-Arab Putin.

 

Not sure how you mean "anti-Arab". For example, Israel got a long standing peace agreements with two of its neighbors (Egypt and Jordan). Granted, the relations are far from warm, but in ME context that's already a result. If "Arabs" was meant as "Palestinians", it would me more to the point, with the caveat that it is, again, far from a unified position.

 

Putin is not really all that interested in the Palestinians, and with comparison to certain Western voices, Russia's criticism of Israel on that score was rather mild over the last few years. When it comes to other Arab nations - so far Israel and Russia managed to come to a sort of a workable understanding with regard to operations in Lebanon and Syria, without major incidents reported. Overall, relations between the two countries developed quiet significantly in the last decade.  

 

and in fact even the criticism aired by Russia 

[Rob13]

38 minutes ago, Morch said:

Not sure how you mean "anti-Arab".

 

 

Now you're just trolling.

[jcsmith]

On 12/17/2016 at 10:36 AM, Andaman Al said:

Agreed, and what the Trumpeteer's don't seem to realise is that those fireworks will result in the deaths of MANY people, while they all sit back and watch it on the news from their sofa, whilst slurping another 2 Ltr coke, saying 'how terrible'.

 

More likely they will be on the forums and phones justifying it for whatever reason.

[Morch]

29 minutes ago, Rob13 said:

 

 

Now you're just trolling.

 

No, I actually expanded on what I meant by the question and gave a reasoned explanation. Anti-Arab and Anti-Palestinian are not exactly the same thing, same goes for Pro.

 

Quoting one bit out of context, and alleging trolling....seriously?

Edited December 18, 2016 by Morch

[Jingthing]

Again, a really, really bad pick.

Some glimmer of hope. There is a movement building to block him. Have no idea if he will be blocked. MOST of clown president trump's picks are truly horrible (often they're out to destroy whatever thing they're supposed to head ... BIZARRE!) but most will still get through. 

 

 

Quote

 

Trump’s choice for Israeli ambassador is a danger to American lives

...

The Senate will get a crack at Friedman. This is a nomination that must be rejected. He is a danger to peace in the Middle East, to American lives, to moderation and to civil discourse. As for his kapos crack, Friedman cannot repudiate it because he has both said it and written it. If the Senate approves his nomination, it will have endorsed calling Jewish liberals and moderates the equivalent of those who helped the Nazis. I can think of nothing worse.

 

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/trumps-choice-for-israeli-ambassador-is-a-danger-to-american-lives/2016/12/19/b1909638-c618-11e6-8bee-54e800ef2a63_story.html

[Ulysses G.]

On 12/17/2016 at 8:58 PM, Rob13 said:

 

 

Now you're just trolling.

 

 Actually, he made a very valid point:

 

"Not sure how you mean "anti-Arab". For example, Israel got a long standing peace agreements with two of its neighbors (Egypt and Jordan)."

 

 

 

 

[Rob13]

5 hours ago, Ulysses G. said:

 

 Actually, he made a very valid point:

 

"Not sure how you mean "anti-Arab". For example, Israel got a long standing peace agreements with two of its neighbors (Egypt and Jordan)."

 

 

 

 

 

 

And what about the 20 or so other Arab nations who don't recognize Israel as a state. 

[Morch]

48 minutes ago, Rob13 said:

 

 

And what about the 20 or so other Arab nations who don't recognize Israel as a state. 

 

Some of them have relations of a sort with Israel regardless. But anyway, thought your point was "Israel being anti-Arab", whereas the above is more "Arabs being anti-Israel".

[Rob13]

16 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

Some of them have relations of a sort with Israel regardless. But anyway, thought your point was "Israel being anti-Arab", whereas the above is more "Arabs being anti-Israel".

 

No, you missed my, way back when I first posted on this thread. 

[Morch]

2 minutes ago, Rob13 said:

 

No, you missed my, way back when I first posted on this thread. 

 

We've been through that.