The Evil Aunt

[jamman]

The minority of the posters who said that you should let her come felt that this woman is your family, and that the wedding belongs also to your new family, and so you are stuck with her at the wedding.

I'm not seeing it. And even if I did, I don't see how someone being family means you are stuck with them. There comes a time when even a close blood relative, even a son or daughter, can go too far, and supporting them becomes not supporting them. I'm thinking of times when a parent has done all possible for an addict, and just has to let their offspring go as low as they are going to go.

And this woman went way too far, and I can understand how you would not want her stinking up your big day.

Also, the family is invited to YOUR wedding. It isn't their wedding.

And as far as in-laws being family, that's an emotional bond that you may or may not feel. Your wife's family is her family, and your wife is your family. Which of her family you feel familial with is not automatic and doesn't happen by default.

Some people feel closer to "extended" family members, good friends, close neighbours, than they do with some of their blood relatives. The woman ex-communicated herself, so no one is stuck with her.

Edited December 7, 2006 by jamman

[Sing_Sling]

The first time I met one of my wife's sisters I was so shocked at her family's treatment of their maid (especially the 8-year old son) that I couldn't keep it in and told them all of, calling them animals etc . . . The ill treatment ranged from shouting at her for every little thing, to the little pr!ck son actually physicaly pushing her around.

This caused some friction in the family but my wife was firmly on my side and slowly they 'came round'. The offense on my part was not highlighting the ill-treatment, but the scolding of the family. They now have a new maid and treat her much better than the previous one. (Indonesian maids)

Your situation is quite different in that you have no chance to rectify the problem and the attitude of the woman is so deeply ingrained that even attempting to do so would be futile.

Bite your tongue and invite her to the wedding and then spend the rest of your life ignoring her. This would be a good lead-in to a discussion of racism in Asia . . . examples abound, but that's been done to death.

Just invite the cow and let everyone live happily ever after, most of all you and your bride.

[tangoll]

It's a difficult situation, but I think you are micromanaging...granted you're footing the bill, but in essence you've delegated the responsibility and authority to your wife/her family to invite 100 people from their side of family to the reception. If that's not what you really want, then tell them there's no reception for them, but that it's your party and you alone will invite all 110 people.

As to the aunt/maid problem, why do you even bother to get all riled up over their internal domestic matter? I don't know if you've witnessed what you described first hand, but it seems your info is hearsay, or from 3rd parties. Do you really know what the true story is? You could be mistaken. Why even get involved over matters like this?

If it's in your own household, that'a a different matter, but in many Asian households, even many husbands leave the dealing with the domestic help totally to the wife. There are more important issues to deal with in married life than how some outside relative deals with her maid.

Just my take.

[ColPyat]

Why even get involved over matters like this?

If it's in your own household, that'a a different matter, but in many Asian households, even many husbands leave the dealing with the domestic help totally to the wife. There are more important issues to deal with in married life than how some outside relative deals with her maid.

Just my take.

Sorry, but that is a bit shocking.

Are you trying to say that just because the horrible treatment of Burmese maids so often seen here is an "Asian domestic affair" and therefore not worth to interfere and entirely unimportant?

Edited December 7, 2006 by ColPyat

[lannarebirth]

But that's just me.

No it's not. It's the right thing to do. People can't hide behind culture and face when criminal acts are involved.

Good post Col

I agree. It's a very tough call, but I think I'd have to exclude the aunt. If one can't assert a tiny biy of their own cultural mores on the occasion of their own wedding, while being respectful of Thai traditions at the same time, they never will be allowed to later either.

I've some experience with young Burmese maids. Girls this age, sisters, need to stay together. Moving the younger sister to mis MIL would likely cause problems, so really, they both need to be sent to a better situation, together.

[jamman]

... There are more important issues to deal with in married life than how some outside relative deals with her maid.

Just my take.

That is the most shallow, myopic, and heartless thing I've read in a long time.

You've managed to disgust me, and I am almost never disgusted.

Empathy doesn't require for the issue to be your business. A young woman was abused. That's business enough.

[apetley]

Tell your fiance that you would like to invite a couple of ex girlfriends to your wedding.

You will find out soon enough that she has power of veto over your guests. You should have the same.

[toptuan]

In many western countries, it is technically illegal for an employer to hire illegal, undocumented aliens. Of course, it's flaunted but it does provide a legal lever for someone to use if necessary.

What's the law in Thailand? If it's technically illegal to hire aliens, (although obviously flaunted then, here too), then what kind of leverage would you be willing to take against this Hitler-ette by getting a police-friend involved to have her prosecuted? (I know, a lot of assumptions involved in this proposal).

Honestly, there are stories I hear which makes you really want to bitch-slap someone. Case in point.

************************

My two cents about the wedding: I'd like to mix-and-match the previous advice.

• Allow your fiancee to invite the aunt. (1 point for your fiancee, family peace, and Thai cultural norms)
  .
  
• But as a compromise for your fiancee to make, make sure the aunt gets that obscure seat by the restroom or swinging kitchen door. Ignore her per previous advice. (1 point for you and making a message very clear to especially Thai attendees--that's where you want to make your point, right?).
  .
  
• Definitely invite the Burmese maids, make sure they come well-dressed, seated quite a bit closer to the table(s) of honor. Assign an honored family member to keep watch, as a guardian over them during the festivities, to help avoid any scenes with the murderous bitch. (But I'd stop short at announcing them as guests of honor). Consider hiring a bouncer who maintains eye contact with the maids' guardian. (At least 5 points for you, and respect for human rights!)
  

.

I really admire your strong ethical stance in this situation; but you've really got a clear clash here between loyalty to your fiancee & her wishes, vs. your principle. I'm suggesting a compromise that requires everyone to give in a bit, but to at least allow you to make your point in the eyes and long-term memories of all who attend this event. Maybe you'll end up getting more mileage out of it, than an outright banning of the aunt.

If you carried it through, I'd give my right arm for a well-edited video of the event (aunt's reaction shots, audience reaction shots, maid shots, back to aunt's reaction, shot of bouncer doing his duty, close-up of groom's satisfied smile, room-wide shot of wild cheering and clapping by audience, fade out on bride's Nancy-Regan-style worshipful gaze at her new husband--use graphics to superimpose knight's armor over tuxedo.)

Edited December 7, 2006 by toptuan

[Little Black Duck]

Deepest Sympathys My Friend...

64 million thais and you found the Horror family..

I would be wondering about the wife to be...

If she thinks you are reacting incorrectly..

Just because you are being a humanitarian, perhaps

you might consider being the "Runaway Groom" ??

[toptuan]

you might consider being the "Runaway Groom" ??

Naw, coward's way out. Instead, stage the video event of the year!

[GuestHouse]

I'm on the side of not letting her near the wedding.

If your wife can't agree to exclude one Aunt on very reasonable grounds then what will happen when the next family conflict arrives.

If you marry the girl, marry the family, if you marry the family you must have a say in how the family effects your own household.

Alternativly, you could 'Dob her in' to a human rights NGO a couple of days before the wedding.

Edited December 7, 2006 by GuestHouse

[jamman]

[*]But as a compromise for your fiancee to make, make sure the aunt gets that obscure seat by the restroom or swinging kitchen door. ..

.

[*]Definitely invite the Burmese maids, make sure they come well-dressed...

.

... I'd give my right arm for a well-edited video of the event ...

Brilliant.

Although it does take a bit of focus off the wedding, and puts it onto the Evil Bitch. Sublime revenge. What a perfectly two faced way to snub her. She is invited, nothing bad said to her, and yet made enraged and put on display as the bag of ill will that she is. I learned the art of strategy just by reading your post.

Edited December 7, 2006 by jamman

[toptuan]

Brilliant. I learned the art of strategy just by reading your post.

Aww, it's nothing. Just watched too many soap operas.

[bkkmadness]

I'd invite to the wedding on one condition only, that the 'contract' for the Burmese maid is handed over to you as her wedding gift. Would that be worth a thought?

The way I see it, the Aunt keeps her face for attending the wedding, you don't have to care about her being an evil bitch coz you have the maid out of her clutches, and you probably get a bit of extra face yourself from the rest of the family for coming to such a reasonable solution.

You could get this contract handed over before the wedding and have the maid dressed up and looking happy on the day to twist that knife in just that little bit more.

Edited December 7, 2006 by bkkmadness

[Thaiboxer]

Since this crazy woman is part of your wife-to-be's family, it's a tougher situation for her than it is for you. Surely she doesn't want this woman near the wedding any more than you do, but she may have to let her attend. I doubt the auntie is going to do something to mess up the occassion. Afterward, you'll have to discuss with your wife ways to avoid her in other situations.

[Mobi]

I'd invite to the wedding on one condition only, that the 'contract' for the Burmese maid is handed over to you as her wedding gift. Would that be worth a thought?

The way I see it, the Aunt keeps her face for attending the wedding, you don't have to care about her being an evil bitch coz you have the maid out of her clutches, and you probably get a bit of extra face yourself from the rest of the family for coming to such a reasonable solution.

You could get this contract handed over before the wedding and have the maid dressed up and looking happy on the day to twist that knife in just that little bit more.

What you are suggesting is brilliant, but I fear that it would only happen in a Thai soap opera.

Real life situations are far more sordid, and such confrontations rarely, if ever happen.

The OP should make a stand - it will get very ugly - but at least he will be doing the right thing - and his actions may put his relations with the family on a strong footing for the future.

If not, does he really want this kind of family round his neck forever more?

[lannarebirth]

[*]But as a compromise for your fiancee to make, make sure the aunt gets that obscure seat by the restroom or swinging kitchen door. ..

.

[*]Definitely invite the Burmese maids, make sure they come well-dressed...

.

... I'd give my right arm for a well-edited video of the event ...

Brilliant.

Although it does take a bit of focus off the wedding, and puts it onto the Evil Bitch. Sublime revenge. What a perfectly two faced way to snub her. She is invited, nothing bad said to her, and yet made enraged and put on display as the bag of ill will that she is. I learned the art of strategy just by reading your post.

Stupid idea. Petty, vindictive, exploitive. Invite her if you must (I wouldn't) but don't use people to play games.

[toptuan]

Stupid idea. Petty, vindictive, exploitive. Invite her if you must (I wouldn't) but don't use people to play games.

Where's your sense of playfulness, adventure, and creatively making a point? Oh, I understand. I just noticed your avatar....

Actually "vindictive" and "exploitive" imply evil intent. Our motives are higher than your judgment alludes to.

Edited December 7, 2006 by toptuan

[lannarebirth]

Stupid idea. Petty, vindictive, exploitive. Invite her if you must (I wouldn't) but don't use people to play games.

Where's your sense of playfulness, adventure, and creatively making a point? Oh, I understand. I just noticed your avatar....

I don't get it. That's my dog. Probably the best thing England has produced since Isaac Newton. he's playful as vcan be and has travelled to more countries than most people.

[jamman]

[*]But as a compromise for your fiancee to make, make sure the aunt gets that obscure seat by the restroom or swinging kitchen door. ..

.

[*]Definitely invite the Burmese maids, make sure they come well-dressed...

.

... I'd give my right arm for a well-edited video of the event ...

Brilliant.

Although it does take a bit of focus off the wedding, and puts it onto the Evil Bitch. Sublime revenge. What a perfectly two faced way to snub her. She is invited, nothing bad said to her, and yet made enraged and put on display as the bag of ill will that she is. I learned the art of strategy just by reading your post.

Stupid idea. Petty, vindictive, exploitive. Invite her if you must (I wouldn't) but don't use people to play games.

The woman obviously has the self awareness of a slug. Heightening attention on her, mocking her idiot rage, while enraging her, what better service to mirror herself to her?

Nothing else is getting through.

Edited December 7, 2006 by jamman

[Donz]

make the bitch sit on the floor at your wedding, tell her that her rich ass is to only be used to go on a public toilet outside.

Tell your aunt in your culture the aunty must peel the groom some prawn and feed it to him.

[Insight]

Safety first, I'd keep the girl and this excuse for a human being as far away as possible, regardless of whether you end up inviting her or not. There's a risk of...

a. The aunt slipping out of the wedding with the girl

And/Or...

b. The aunt taking the humiliation/loss of face she may of just felt at the wedding out on the girl.

Both of which are in no way what any of us want to see.

To me, inviting the aunt is a sign of accepting her behaviour, and I fully appreciate your stance. I'm just glad I don't have a similar situation to deal with for my wedding.

The flip-side is you risk polarising the opinions of your future family on the issue, and once judgements have been made, typical to Asian nature, it's highly unlikely they'll be sincerely retracted IMHO.

/edit - crappy b ) smiley

Edited December 7, 2006 by Insight

[p_brownstone]

You will not win this one by excluding, or, worse, inviting the Aunt but then treating her with open disrespect.

Everyone in the family will already be well aware of the Aunts’ attitude and, to be frank, many will either approve or simply not care. Thais generally dislike Burmese, the reasons go back generations - that’s not an excuse for the attitude, but it’s a fact.

If you refuse to invite the Aunt half the family at least will be on her side and your future relationship with the family will suffer greatly, no-one will understand why you chose to embarrass the Aunt to the benefit of a lowly Burmese maid. You will definitely not be respected for your hard line attitude.

Once you are married you can set your own rules as to who is welcome in your home and who is not, but a major family occasion is not the forum to instigate dissention.

One final point – it’s inadvisable to enter a marriage with the attitude that since you are the one paying for something, your wishes must take precedence; marriage is a partnership, not a Limited Company where the shareholder with the most cash invested has all the rights.

Patrick

[toptuan]

Stupid idea. Petty, vindictive, exploitive. Invite her if you must (I wouldn't) but don't use people to play games.

Where's your sense of playfulness, adventure, and creatively making a point? Oh, I understand. I just noticed your avatar....

I don't get it. That's my dog. Probably the best thing England has produced since Isaac Newton. he's playful as vcan be and has travelled to more countries than most people.

It was the scowling-bored expression that caught my eye.

Edited December 7, 2006 by toptuan

[bkkmadness]

[*]But as a compromise for your fiancee to make, make sure the aunt gets that obscure seat by the restroom or swinging kitchen door. ..

.

[*]Definitely invite the Burmese maids, make sure they come well-dressed...

.

... I'd give my right arm for a well-edited video of the event ...

Brilliant.

Although it does take a bit of focus off the wedding, and puts it onto the Evil Bitch. Sublime revenge. What a perfectly two faced way to snub her. She is invited, nothing bad said to her, and yet made enraged and put on display as the bag of ill will that she is. I learned the art of strategy just by reading your post.

Stupid idea. Petty, vindictive, exploitive. Invite her if you must (I wouldn't) but don't use people to play games.

Yep I agree, and certainly not on your wedding day where you find yourself trying to keep an eye on the situation all the time and think about the poor girl when she gets home with the Ms Cruellla de ville.

Mobi I think my idea doesn't need to be so confrontational. You don't need to go there and demand conditions or no invite because that definitely will cause a lot of hassle and you wont get a result.

You could have the Mother of your wife go round there with your daughter on some friendly visits, and whilst there talk about how the young couple will be needing a maid soon, and how nice it would be if they could find one just like yours, and what a lovely wedding gift for them blah blah blah etc. until the Aunt suggests they take the maid as a wedding gift.

Or perhaps have the Mother and Father pop round there and say "there's a problem with the farang and wedding because of his silly farang culture, and his silly farang ways and the farang is finding it difficult to accept the current situation with the maid and would like the maid for himself and his wife. Causing great stress to the wedding blah blah, my daughter, us the parents blah blah. and perhaps you could hand them the contract of the maid so the wedding can go ahead without any problems?" Or something along those lines, the Aunt may be willing to give up the maid as a favour to your wife's parents.

Pretty much the truth I suppose but they can play it the way that's its all your problem, and you are difficult to understand being farang and all, but they don't know what to and perhaps the kind Aunt could help them solve this problem for the sake of family harmony. You obviously are put here as the cause of the problem but I'm sure you can take that on your back for the sake of getting a result.

Ok, theres no doubt better ways to do it, but I'm sure the wife's family know some way to politely force her hand in that ever so pleasant Asian way. Theres bound to be someone in the family that knows how to put the right kind of pressure on her with all the right smiles.

Gotta be worth some consideration, perhaps ask your wife about this ploy?

[bkkmadness]

Remember if you exclude her from the wedding and she knows it's over this, then her loss of face has been caused by the maid who has caused all these problems. Least that is the way she will see it, and then who's she gonna take it all out on, the poor girl.

[jamman]

You will not win this one by excluding, or, worse, inviting the Aunt but then treating her with open disrespect.

Everyone in the family will already be well aware of the Aunts’ attitude and, to be frank, many will either approve or simply not care. Thais generally dislike Burmese, the reasons go back generations - that’s not an excuse for the attitude, but it’s a fact.

If you refuse to invite the Aunt half the family at least will be on her side and your future relationship with the family will suffer greatly, no-one will understand why you chose to embarrass the Aunt to the benefit of a lowly Burmese maid. You will definitely not be respected for your hard line attitude.

Once you are married you can set your own rules as to who is welcome in your home and who is not, but a major family occasion is not the forum to instigate dissention.

One final point – it’s inadvisable to enter a marriage with the attitude that since you are the one paying for something, your wishes must take precedence; marriage is a partnership, not a Limited Company where the shareholder with the most cash invested has all the rights.

Patrick

I agree with your point about the breadwinner doesn't make all the rules, but the OP would be paying for the Aunts dinner. And if the wife's family is a pressure, he'd be paying for them also. Wife's family or not, the guests are guests, and invited, at the expense of the OP and his wife. The position of (them both) paying for the wedding, highlights this fact. He is not obliged to pay to invite an unwanted guest.

And if "a major family occasion is not the forum to instigate dissention." then I don't know what is. Why not make enemies within her family? Who wants friends and allies that are shtty people.

Edited December 7, 2006 by jamman

[Wolfie]

its not a real wedding without at least one argument/fight

[alexth]

The minority of the posters who said that you should let her come felt that this woman is your family, and that the wedding belongs also to your new family, and so you are stuck with her at the wedding.

I'm not seeing it. And even if I did, I don't see how someone being family means you are stuck with them. There comes a time when even a close blood relative, even a son or daughter, can go too far, and supporting them becomes not supporting them. I'm thinking of times when a parent has done all possible for an addict, and just has to let their offspring go as low as they are going to go.

And this woman went way too far, and I can understand how you would not want her stinking up your big day.

Also, the family is invited to YOUR wedding. It isn't their wedding.

And as far as in-laws being family, that's an emotional bond that you may or may not feel. Your wife's family is her family, and your wife is your family. Which of her family you feel familial with is not automatic and doesn't happen by default.

Some people feel closer to "extended" family members, good friends, close neighbours, than they do with some of their blood relatives. The woman ex-communicated herself, so no one is stuck with her.

For the moment it's not HIS family, it'h HER family and even after, the aunt will be more family to HER family than HIS, so, I don't see anyway to get out of it, unless HER family realizes that this woman is a threat to humanity. Just my 2 bahts

[bina]

once again... i reiterate... do it the asian way since u are in asia and it is a mostly asian family... your money too bad u cant buy everything in the world with money if u wanted the wedding the way u want it, dont invite the family, just do a dinner for the immediates...btw my ex made a 'non invite' for me at a ex family doo... my abscense was more notable then my prescense and all sides felt it and took sides it was messy for my kids and my friends within the family....

so try the basic ignorance method and or maybe try bkkmad s method of third party interferance etc it usally works..

i got the blame --crazy farang wife-- for why my -now- thai husband wouldnt drink alcohol when with the guys when we were visiting... the excuse was... wifes' daughter doesnt approve and we dont want problems blablabla... i complained about that method and was told it was the politer of the two... blame a third party or be straightforward and insult all the friends...

i go for the subtle method when in rome do like rome ... no probs.

like i said, u can involve a third party later for human rights things, but remember.... these things can really backfire on the maid and sister... becareful when going out to save the world. not everyone sees the world like u.