Immigration are circling my classroom - what can I do?

[JustAnotherFarang]

Hi guys

I have been living and working in Thailand for 16 years. In that time I have opened a classroom and have a good client base who enjoy learning with me. As my reputation grew, many government officials and policemen have brought their children to learn with me. They have turned a blind eye to the fact that I was a married guy trying to make a living.

But in the last year a parent who works for immigration warned me to get a work visa. I looked into this but found the rules and regulations that I needed to fulfil to be impossible, especially the 4 thais per foreigner rule so decided to carry on as I was, remaining low key, with no advertisement or promotion and no signs to indicate what I was doing. This is how I have always done things.

But in the last week, a head honcho guy from immigration came to pick up his wife from the hairdressers across the road and started asking questions about if she knew me and if I had many students. Then today the same guy came cruising by the classroom with another guy looking into the premises. There were a handful of young students entering the classroom at the time. Then my wife noticed that this evening, the guy we normally deal with at immigration also drove slowly past the classroom at 6.30., again looking into the premises. There were about 10 students in the classroom at the time.

My wife told me later, after lesson times had finished and this immediately sent me into a bit of a tailspin fearing that they were trying to obtain evidence and that they will return to arrest me in the very near future. We have decided to close the class tomorrow for the holidays just to be on the safe side.

My question is this, if they raid my classroom and arrest me for working illegally what will be the likely outcome. I live in the south but I do not want to be jailed and then moved to IDC in BKK, to be subjected to a substantial fine and then risk deportation as well as I have a home and a family here.

Cheers

JAF

[jak2002003]

Sorry, but you are working illegally here and you knew it.. and took the chance.  Time to shut it down and get yourself sorted out.

[thetruth revealer]

Go for a longer holiday ? Out of sight ....It seems they are indeed looking for evidences, thats why they didnt raid your house yet. If you are lucky enough , and get away with this situation ,i  personally would interpret the presence  of the IO as a last warning...And of course not continue giving  classes anymore.

 

Good luck with that story...

 

[berybert]

They know you run a classroom they have seen students in the classroom. They know you don't have a work permit.

Seems to me they are giving you the chance to put a few Baht their way so you can carry on as you are.

If they wanted to arrest you they would have done so. 

[mstevens]

This is an awkward situation.  On the one hand (I presume) you are offering a valuable service to the community, imparting your knowledge, teaching a skill that is important for all Thais and hopefully making young Thais more comfortable around foreigners.  On the other hand you have flagrantly flaunted the law for a very long (!!) time and have not jumped through all the hoops and gone to the not inconsiderable expense and hassle that others doing the same thing have gone through.

 

From the sounds of it you have had a good run and been very lucky to have operated for as long as you have.  If it were me I'd close the business down and hope that that is the end of it and there are no consequences.  Sometimes you have to know when it's time .... and it seems now may be that time.

[Shot]

^^^What he said, and I would leave zero evidence of a "classroom" behind. Make sure that room looks like something else ASAP.

[doremifasol]

I would have made the classroom disappear yesterday.

 

Puffff....

 

.......gone.

[colinneil]

Run Forrest run.

[Doiger]

I would have made the classroom disappear last year when you were told by a parent who works for immigration to get a work permit

[paul18620]

pack it in before its too late at least you can do something about it now ,but when you get arrested you can't do anything to save yourself ,as you say they are gathering evidence against you by the looks of it and when they do this you will have no chance to get out of it.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

16 years of illegally running a business in Thailand, without even having to have paid any bribes as yet?  OP, you ought to consider yourself luckier than most.

 

Get clean while you still can. IDC in BKK is not a fun place to be.

 

[glegolo]

Good luck in closing down, and trying to stay in Thailand with no income... cause that is what it is all about, isn´t it??? You do not even have 40.000 baht a month to live on??

 

Glegolo

[stevenl]

They know you run a classroom they have seen students in the classroom. They know you don't have a work permit.
Seems to me they are giving you the chance to put a few Baht their way so you can carry on as you are.
If they wanted to arrest you they would have done so. 

Not only not a work permit, this is running an illegal school.

And no, seems they are not looking for a few Baht but for evidence.

Sent from my ROBBY using Thaivisa Connect mobile app

[terminatorchiangmai]

You can get a work permit if you have a marriage visa , only thing is you need to have a job with income or a registered business with employees.

You have none , so close it down now and hope they not have enough evidence already.

 

Good luck,

[chrisinth]

What I don't understand from posts like this (and a lot of others) is the fear from immigration as opposed to the real threat from the education and labor departments who are responsible for working (education in this case as it involves a school).

 

That is assuming that after 16 years living here the OP has the proper visa or permission to stay.

[Loaded]

Fairly sure you won't have registered for and paid tax as well. As someone who runs a legal business in Thailand and jumps through all the hoops, you have no sympathy from me. We have competitors who flagrantly ignore the rules, laws and regulations we follow. They can undercut us because of this. It's not right.

 

When we complained to the authorities of illegal competition, the authorities did little other than alert our competitors to the fact we had complained. Our illegal competition then attacked us. I received threats, fake posts on FB and forums, fake reviews etc. However, this just made us more determined to fight.

 

 

Edited December 23, 2016 by Loaded

[kwak250]

Firstly I would be looking for a Christmas holiday anywhere as far away as possible.

Relocate to somewhere else in Thailand as I wouldn't want to have to go back to the same immigration office on your next 90 day stamp .

This might sound drastic but you have a chance now and might live to regret it.

Still 16 years deserves a pat on the back ...

[thedemon]

30 minutes ago, chrisinth said:

What I don't understand from posts like this (and a lot of others) is the fear from immigration as opposed to the real threat from the education and labor departments who are responsible for working (education in this case as it involves a school).

 

That is assuming that after 16 years living here the OP has the proper visa or permission to stay.

 

You would think that working without a WP would primarily concern the Labour department but in reality you are in contravention of both the Alien Working Act and the Immigration Act and between those two, immigration has more teeth.

[Colabamumbai]

A Thai teacher must be loosing money for their after school classes for students.

[simon43]

Offer an immediate 20% discount for all kids of immigration officers who sign up for your classes 

[SaintLouisBlues]

Just now, simon43 said:

Offer an immediate 20% discount for all kids of immigration officers who sign up for your classes 

I was about to suggest offering the head honcho at Immigration a business partnership

[muzmurray]

17 minutes ago, thedemon said:

 

You would think that working without a WP would primarily concern the Labour department but in reality you are in contravention of both the Alien Working Act and the Immigration Act and between those two, immigration has more teeth.

 

The OP would only be contravening the Immigration Act if he was on a visa or extension of stay that prohibited work, else he is just contravening the Alien Working Act.

[buick]

i think the OP needs to clarify his visa status in order to get a full set of instructions on 'what to do'.  obviously he needs to stop working immediately (no work permit).  the next question may be 'how do i clear my overstay'.  i might be totally wrong on that but just yesterday i posted on another thread about people teaching without a work permit.  in that post, i suggested the only people left doing that are on overstay and are trying to earn/collect enough money to pay an 'agent' to clear up the overstay. 

 

 

[Suradit69]

17 minutes ago, Colabamumbai said:

A Thai teacher must be loosing [sic] money for their [sic] after school classes for students.

 

Maybe he could switch to offering English classes for English speaking expats and, if raided, claim he and his students were just playing bridge.

[riverhigh]

3 hours ago, mstevens said:

This is an awkward situation.  On the one hand (I presume) you are offering a valuable service to the community, imparting your knowledge, teaching a skill that is important for all Thais and hopefully making young Thais more comfortable around foreigners.  On the other hand you have flagrantly flaunted the law for a very long (!!) time and have not jumped through all the hoops and gone to the not inconsiderable expense and hassle that others doing the same thing have gone through.

 

From the sounds of it you have had a good run and been very lucky to have operated for as long as you have.  If it were me I'd close the business down and hope that that is the end of it and there are no consequences.  Sometimes you have to know when it's time .... and it seems now may be that time.

Couldn't agree more. 16 years is long time and, in my opinion, the consequences outweigh the risks. i don't understand the 4 Thai rule if your wife owns the business and hires you. She would apply for the licence to operate a school and get the work permit. Then again I am assuming you have already looked into this.

 

 

[thedemon]

14 minutes ago, muzmurray said:

 

The OP would only be contravening the Immigration Act if he was on a visa or extension of stay that prohibited work, else he is just contravening the Alien Working Act.

 

Section 37 of the Immigration Act says:

 

Section 37 : An alien having received a temporary entry permit into the Kingdom
must comply with the following :
1. Shall not engage in the occupation or temporary or employment
unless authorized by the Director General. or competent official deputized by the
Director General . If , in any case , there is a law concerning alien employment
provided hereafter , the granting of work privileges must comply with the law
concerned.

 

The way I read that, it covers all foreigners except those with Permanent Residence.

 

How does Visa type or reason for extension affect section 37?

[SpokaneAl]

Your screen name is JustAnotherFarang while you have broken the law here for 16 years, and are now worrying about the consequences of your actions. Just another farang? Yea right.

 

Good luck with all that.

 

 

[muzmurray]

8 minutes ago, thedemon said:

 

Section 37 of the Immigration Act says:

 

Section 37 : An alien having received a temporary entry permit into the Kingdom
must comply with the following :
1. Shall not engage in the occupation or temporary or employment
unless authorized by the Director General. or competent official deputized by the
Director General . If , in any case , there is a law concerning alien employment
provided hereafter , the granting of work privileges must comply with the law
concerned.

 

The way I read that, it covers all foreigners except those with Permanent Residence.

 

How does Visa type or reason for extension affect section 37?

 

The authorization is the lack of "employment prohibited" stamped on your visa or extension.

[lostinisaan]

51 minutes ago, simon43 said:

Offer an immediate 20% discount for all kids of immigration officers who sign up for your classes 

 

 

 Don't be so cheap, mate.  25 % for all cops.....

[recom273]

Sorry to hear your story - 16 years isn't a bad run - and you probably did more good people in that time than the money you recieved.

 

But it's food for thought, no PT teaching gig supplies a WP in this country, even legit schools, I have worked for schools that were run by Thai people and we most probably illegal businesses - but because they were Thai run, no one batted an eyelid.

 

Good luck