Thailand is struggling to handle its tourism boom

[Moonmoon]

Chinese tourist does spend but not alot. They spent on what they cannot find in china, like mangoes, durians (mango n durian products), bird's nest, mistine(thai cosmetic brand), nariya (thai bag brand) n thai massage. Thats about it. All else chinese can find in china, n for more 1st class luxury products n services, some of u guys r right, the rich chinese goes to better 1st world cities to enjoy them.

 

N I dont think farangs think they r better than asians or thais. Havent met one yet, most i met r nice n friendly.

 

 

[geriatrickid]

4 hours ago, GeorgeCross said:

tourists have finally arrived in Hua Hin over the last week, which all though pleasant right now, is a shame for Hua Hin as over the last decade i'd considered it one of the last remaining places that still had a "high season" that ran from October to March.

 

This year it's looking like it's joined the ranks of 2 week high seasons as well 

 

oh well can't say you wasn't warned Thailand..

The beach is  awful with the sun beds down to the water line. 

So much for the government's promise of keeping the beach clear. The local mayor has different ideas. I was nearly garroted today by some  arrogant kite sailor who  came in at  throat slicing speed scattering people along the beach.  Hua Hin is busier this year than the previous 2 years.

[GarryP]

19 minutes ago, YeahSiam said:

 

Yeah you go right ahead and carry on convincing yourself.

You only have to see the multitude of Thaivisa topics focused on the future for exchange rates to see just how concerned many people are about their ability to stay here over the medium to long-term.

A lot of "expats" are struggling. For every example of one doing nicely, there are 10 or 20 for whom the choice between a 300 baht full English/American breakfast and a rub 'n' tug is a major headache

 

I do not see how what you are saying has anything to do with declining tourist numbers. Surely, you are talking about people retired here. 

[spidermike007]

40 minutes ago, YeahSiam said:

 

Yeah you go right ahead and carry on convincing yourself.

You only have to see the multitude of Thaivisa topics focused on the future for exchange rates to see just how concerned many people are about their ability to stay here over the medium to long-term.

A lot of "expats" are struggling. For every example of one doing nicely, there are 10 or 20 for whom the choice between a 300 baht full English/American breakfast and a rub 'n' tug is a major headache

 

 

It appears you hold our ex-pat community in very high regard. Meanwhile you are not addressing for one nanosecond, the reasons for the declining tourist numbers. 

Edited December 27, 2016 by spidermike007

[candide]

I was in Jomtien 10 days ago and it was the same. Even hotels with ideal location on the beach were nearly empty.

Apparently they have never heard of price/capacity management. I checked on some websites and they keep the same price as before. It seems they prefer to keep their hotel empty rather than making discounts and cover at least their operating expenses.

[Sphere]

Meanwhile, 32 millionth visitor has landed at Suvarnabhumi today.....

[nong38]

2 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

 

 

The central bank would most likely not deliberately weaken the baht. But, there are so many other factors here. Exports, foreign exchange markets, money withdrawn from Thai markets, as the economy continues to falter, and the US economy improves, continued lack of confidence in the government here, and many more factors. Many of us are doing quite well, so this concept you have about alot of ex-pats just barely hanging on is bizarre at best, and totally false at worst. Sure there are some on thin pensions, but I know many who are very comfortable. And if Western tourists are getting poorer, it is because the local policies and practices have pushed away the more affluent among them. 

In my observance the Central Bank will never devalue the Bhat, they think its good to have a strong currency , makes them feel strong and big, which incidently benefits the super rich who live here when they toddle off to other lands where their currency goes faurther, the average Thai will never even get to the airport unless its a free ride out for the day!

[YeahSiam]

2 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

 

It appears you hold our ex-pat community in very high regard. Meanwhile you are not addressing for one nanosecond, the reasons for the declining tourist numbers. 

 

But that's just it - tourist numbers aren't declining.

For my sins, I live in a very tourist-y area (Asoke) and from what I've seen, they're represented in greater numbers than I've ever seen after nearly 8 years in Bangkok.

You people make a sport of perpetually forecasting the collapse of the tourism sector proffering anything from military rule to the deluge of supposedly skint Chinese bowling up at Swampy as the main catalysts for such an outcome and each year, you're thwarted by numbers that defy your back-of-a-Tesco-foodhall-napkin calculations.

 

Honestly, every year for the last 7/8 years I've been here, a bunch of Western halfwits spend their lives predicting the capitulation of Thailand's tourism sector and, by extension, its economy.

They secretly pray for the day when a new Asian financial crisis reprises its role as the arbiter of their demographic's ascension to the top of the disposable income tree.

Well, forget it.........the pound is never going to 92 baht again, the dollar ain't going to 50 or 60 and office girls aren't going to be offering battered, overweight sex tourists and sexpats access to their nether regions for 500 baht.

[Basil B]

Oh dear...

 

Another April 1st story let out far too early...

[laislica]

6 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

 

 

I tend to agree with some of what you say. I too am considering other spots. Currently the top spot under consideration seems to be Spain. So much culture, great wine, alot of fascinating places to visit nearby, reasonable real estate, a language I speak, and a reasonable standard of living. The other spots in this region offer too much similar nonsense, and bad infrastructure. Too many despot "so called leaders" in this region too. And the really hot weather, which seems to be getting hotter, and drier, is not all that appealing, as I get older. Thailand is making no steps whatsoever, to improve upon itself. On alot of levels, it feels like it is either standing still, or more than likely going backwards. Frankly, the biggest draw at the moment is being close to my wife's family, the food, the relatively pleasant people, and the weakening of the baht. But, I despise the government, and the level of ignorance being perpetrated by the fabulously inferior educational system here does not appear to bode well for the future of the place. I also despise the practice of face, and the staggering level of cowardice that accompanies that weak, pathetic quality. 

 

We beat you to it Mike.

As soon as we married, I took my Thai wife to Spain and jumped through the hoops to get her registered as resident in Spain.

Now she comes and goes with me with no visas or other paperwork.

However, every 5 years the Foreigners ID must be renewed, but that should be cheap and routine.

We spend  five and a half months visiting Thailand.

The reason is so that my wife can see her large family and friends but as the various clamp down's make life more irritating, we may spend much less time in Thailand in future. In any case, we've been to many holiday destinations, so sort of been there, done that......

 

If you are able to remove the cost of housing, then the cost of living in Spain is similar to Thailand but, as you mentioned, with far superior wine quality and at a much cheaper price, not to mention the whole of the rest or Europe to visit as well. We made a trip to Paris last year.

Spanish is an easy language to learn, Thai is not and Garry has sumerised your points very well.

However: The first step to getting the things you want out of life is this: Decide what you want. ~ Ben Stein

All that glitters is not gold.....

Spain has it's problems too so you must be very clear about where you choose to live.

When we were young, our concerns were to be near good schools....

Now perhaps, it's to be near good medical services LOL.

On that score, as a Brit, I qualified for a Spanish NHS Card, and so does my wife!

The Spanish are more forgiving than the UK for accepting our Non EU wives!

 

It is a crying shame that Thailand is deteriorating as a prime tourist destination and I don't feel as safe as I used to.

As our numbers go down, we become bigger targets for the desperate.

 

We were in Hua Hin for a few days last week, my first visit and it not for me.

I don't want to spend every day/evening in a bar or lying on a beach, but what else is there to do there?

At least Chaing Mai has loads of old temples, hot springs, Doi Sutep, great markets like Warrarot and can be visited on foot.

Not to mention French restaurants, resorts, hotels with swimming pools, the flower show etc. etc. No beach though.....

We were traveling with friends so it was OK to know what was available but I doubt if we will ever return.

We go to Ch Am beach for the day quite often and meet up with my wife's family, an entirely different and nicer experience.

 

6 hours ago, GarryP said:

You have hit nearly enough nails on the head to keep the coffin lid in place.

 

"Too many despot "so called leaders" in this region too. ........ Thailand is making no steps whatsoever, to improve upon itself. On alot of levels, it feels like it is either standing still, or more than likely going backwards. ........................ But, I despise the government, and the level of ignorance being perpetrated by the fabulously inferior educational system here does not appear to bode well for the future of the place. I also despise the practice of face, and the staggering level of cowardice that accompanies that weak, pathetic quality."  

 

[Retiredandhappyhere]

Judging by all of his comments above, it seems as if YeahSiam lives in a (dream) world of his own and sees millions of tourists everywhere, when others in the industry cannot. Strange also that he holds such a low opinion of expats in particular and yet expresses the view that we are all treated well by Thais (even though they no longer regard us a "Gods").

[nausea]

 To be honest, it is very resilient. I suppose the danger is that people become complacent and at some stage a tipping point is reached, and the whole thing falls apart. What Thailand needs is less patting on the back, and more what can we do to make our country more attractive.

[onthesoi]

6 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

I am not going to dispute some of the incorrect notions you have posted here. But, I do know that Thailand does not offer the kinds of services that the rich Chinese, that you describe as the types that would drop hundreds of thousands of baht in the local malls, would need in order to thrive, at this point in time. They are visiting Singapore, Hong Kong, Macau, New York, Paris, London, Tokyo, and other destinations that offer first class service, luxury shopping without stupid amounts of duty, a thriving wine industry, and culture. How many of these rich Chinese tourists do you know? They are very sophisticated. They are typically smart, and savvy buyers. They do not tend to spend double, to compensate for the silly luxury import duty policies in place here. I have spoken to countless business owners who have all repeated basically the same thing about the average Chinese tourist that comes to Thailand. They just do not spend much money, and they just do not seem to have much money. Some of these tours are as little a $200 for a few days in Thailand. They are currently attracting Chinese tourists that are at the bottom of the demographic barrel.

 

I can tell you first hand this is not accurate, you only have to look at the billions of baht in assets frozen & the major Thai players involved with zdt to understand how much money is sloshing around from Chinese tourism.  Quoting the price of their holiday package just means you don't understand the nuances of the zdt scam or quite how much money some Chinese are willing to spend & looks can be deceiving, the only number that makes sense is how much money they dropped for the whole trip. 

 

They are not spending the money 'in malls' per say, much of the time they are shuttled away to venues in non tourist areas away from prying eyes.

[robertthebruce]

I have been now living in Bangkok for the last month or so, and must say, Farang Tourists are thin on the street.

 

and I am out and about all over.

 

probably more Chinese Tourists and they do seem to be buying stuff from Big C and Tescos...

[laislica]

1 minute ago, nausea said:

 To be honest, it is very resilient. I suppose the danger is that people become complacent and at some stage a tipping point is reached, and the whole thing falls apart. What Thailand needs is less patting on the back, and more what can we do to make our country more attractive.

 

As a European, my wife is accepted in my adopted country (Spain) and apart from the initial, quite substantial cost and effort to have her registered as a resident, can now travel freely without further paperwork or visa cost.

Thailand could start by responding in the same was to us farang men who have Thai wives who enjoy these privilages!

A Thai man with a farang wife gets much more support in this respect than a frang with a Thai wife! Dual standards everywhere.

 

It's not just the cost, it's the TM30 on arrival, 90 day reports, renewal of extensions for which a large amount of cash must be held in a Thai bank (or pay my Embassy almost 3,000b for a proof of income certification), oh, and the re-entry permits......

No, it's all the time to remember to do this BS! or pay the fines if you forget!

It's the feeling that at any time the Thai's could change the immigration rules and we could be all out!

Not a safe or secure feeling!

 

I know how much I have contributed to the Thai economy in the 5 years that I have had a Thai wife and it is a considerable sum, millions of baht and everything in my wife's name... Again, not very safe or secure if things don't work out.....

By contrast, my wife now part owns a property in Spain, something I can not do in Thailand, unless it's a condo....

(OK, it was also that way in Spain a few years ago under the dictator Franco)

 

Without further paperwork, my wife is permitted to work in Spain (she dosen't but only because I am a rich farang God LOL)

Anyway, reciprocation would be a start.

 

[nausea]

Yeah, one contributes massively to the Thai economy, but as far as they're concerned you're the same as the guy who arrived yesterday. Such is life.

[laislica]

19 minutes ago, onthesoi said:

6 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

I am not going to dispute some of the incorrect notions you have posted here. But, I do know that Thailand does not offer the kinds of services that the rich Chinese, that you describe as the types that would drop hundreds of thousands of baht in the local malls, would need in order to thrive, at this point in time. They are visiting Singapore, Hong Kong, Macau, New York, Paris, London, Tokyo, and other destinations that offer first class service, luxury shopping without stupid amounts of duty, a thriving wine industry, and culture. How many of these rich Chinese tourists do you know? They are very sophisticated. They are typically smart, and savvy buyers. They do not tend to spend double, to compensate for the silly luxury import duty policies in place here. I have spoken to countless business owners who have all repeated basically the same thing about the average Chinese tourist that comes to Thailand. They just do not spend much money, and they just do not seem to have much money. Some of these tours are as little a $200 for a few days in Thailand. They are currently attracting Chinese tourists that are at the bottom of the demographic barrel.

 

I can tell you first hand this is not accurate, you only have to look at the billions of baht in assets frozen & the major Thai players involved with zdt to understand how much money is sloshing around from Chinese tourism.  Quoting the price of their holiday package just means you don't understand the nuances of the zdt scam or quite how much money some Chinese are willing to spend & looks can be deceiving, the only number that makes sense is how much money they dropped for the whole trip. 

 

They are not spending the money 'in malls' per say, much of the time they are shuttled away to venues in non tourist areas away from prying eyes.

 

 

Very interesting.

It is entirely possible to buy an all found holiday in one country and be coached to another where you need to spend nothing more.....

The coach could even be a plane and then a bus.......

We made such a trip to Paris last year.

We paid for the whole trip in one country and the tour operator had chosen out of the way hotels, where they had negotiated prices so low that I doubt if there was much profit to the hotel or restaurants that we used.

We also spent many hours daily in our coach, the costs of which were a driver, fuel and depreciation.....

We were almost zero spend visitors.

Just the odd coffee, beer or orange juice.......

Well, except for the m/c and sidecar that we hired (with rider) and were driven all over Paris.

However, I can tell you that I was not aware of anyone else in our party spending like that.

The gardens at Versailles were free and there wasn't time enough to queue and enter the buildings (I saw it all in 1955 anyway!)

 

The point being - it's easy to be a near zero spend tourist!

 

 

[robertthebruce]

The problem with Thailand now is..

 

most people either Tourists or Farang Residents,  are exposed to,the Double "D"...

 

Dirty

Dangerous

 

juat my take in what I see and what I have experienced over the few years I have been here....

[Squeegee]

7 hours ago, Moonmoon said:

I dont think farangs think they r better than asians or thais. Havent met one yet, most i met r nice n friendly

 

Western liberalism, meritocracy, political correctness (gone mad?), democratic principles, anti-racism, positive discrimination, critical thinking... all concepts that show the worth of YeahSiam's distorted opinion on the matter.

[onthesoi]

3 hours ago, laislica said:

Very interesting.

It is entirely possible to buy an all found holiday in one country and be coached to another where you need to spend nothing more.....

The coach could even be a plane and then a bus.......

We made such a trip to Paris last year.

We paid for the whole trip in one country and the tour operator had chosen out of the way hotels, where they had negotiated prices so low that I doubt if there was much profit to the hotel or restaurants that we used.

We also spent many hours daily in our coach, the costs of which were a driver, fuel and depreciation.....

We were almost zero spend visitors.

Just the odd coffee, beer or orange juice.......

Well, except for the m/c and sidecar that we hired (with rider) and were driven all over Paris.

However, I can tell you that I was not aware of anyone else in our party spending like that.

The gardens at Versailles were free and there wasn't time enough to queue and enter the buildings (I saw it all in 1955 anyway!)

 

The point being - it's easy to be a near zero spend tourist!

 

I think you are confusing a 'zero spend tourist' with a 'zero dollar tour' ... one has nothing to do with the other.

[montemonte]

 
I think you are confusing a 'zero spend tourist' with a 'zero dollar tour' ... one has nothing to do with the other.

I'm a American that is visiting Thailand. I spent a lot of money here. Hotels, food, tours, shows etc... and it's a great buy for the money. Love the Thai people and love the respect they give to each other and us foreigners.


Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect

[Stygge]

So it´s true then. Bagdad Bob really escaped and got a job at TAT.

[YeahSiam]

20 hours ago, Squeegee said:

Furthermore, with regards to the poster YeahSiam's comment:

 

"Western tourists [...] just didn't like the fact that Thais stopped thinking the average farang deserved deified status..."

 

This is blatant anti-Westerner lies.

 

For example, many Thais like foreigners precisely because we are outside of hierarchical culture, being from meritocracies, so very often we treat the women with more respect than Thai patriarchalism, or students feel they can be more open-minded with the foreign teacher.

Those are just two common examples.

 

From a practical, survivalist's point of view there are the foreigners who get by in Thailand (stay breathing) by smiling a lot and keeping out of trouble - that is, living their life defensively in a potentially unsafe place. Again, nothing like YeahSiam's nonsense fantasy.

 

But really, all of the details are by the by because YeahSiam claims Western tourists think they deserve deified status, and although it may be true for a small, stupid minority, the fact is it is clear as day YeahSiam makes gross generalizations about a whole race with very little of real intelligence to add to a discussion.

 

20 hours ago, Squeegee said:

 

Apologist nonsense.

 

"Western tourists were not scammed, disrespected and abused en masse" and yet there is a falang deaths dot com; the daily beatings... I can't be bothered to add to the long list that apologists like YeahSiam blatantly lie about.

 

Such daft thinking raises the question why YeahSiam isn't campaigning for foreigners to be barred from Thailand, where they "were not scammed" but still "more than a few" act like ass wipes.

 

You don't half blow hard, do you?

 

I make no apologies for Thais - my comments on tourism are based on what I see here in a tourist-heavy part of Bangkok, not from the Thaivisa news page read from verandah on a McMansion  next to a pig-farm in deep Isaan .  

Is Thailand a "potentially unsafe place"? Sure it is; farangs do get mugged or beaten but many of us come a cropper because of our own stupidity but on the whole, many farangs report feeling safer in Thailand than they do in their own countries.

 

You claim I'm making up the farang's desire for deified status? Just read through any "has Thailand changed"-type thread on here.

Full of "they used to wai me but don't any more" or "they don't want us here" as if Thais should have any more interest in us beyond our ability to spend when most of us can't even string a sentence together in their language.

 

Tourists come here to enjoy the weather, beaches, sex scene or whatever.

The only ones who give a shit about service levels are those who go to the high end resorts like Sri Panwa etc where they get exactly what they pay for. 

You don't rent a room at a Khaosan guesthouse and expect 5* service, do you?

Edited December 28, 2016 by YeahSiam

[pmugghc]

Here's some data from Mastercard, puts Bkk in the top:

http://newsroom.mastercard.com/asia-pacific/press-releases/bangkok-claims-title-as-worlds-most-visited-city-2016-mastercard-global-destination-cities-index/

 

I can't believe the amount of negativity in this thread, sounds like most of the posters are bitter old men, many sitting lonely in their Isaan village.

[catinthehat]

On 12/27/2016 at 9:17 AM, impulse said:

 

Last week when I flew in, there were gazillions of cranes actually working on the grounds.  If it's window dressing, it could be mistaken for a bona fide project.

Yes that is honestly the long promised and discussed new phase in the piling/foundation stage. Been discussed for so long that when finished it should require another one.

 

much like the piss poor planning of the BTS layout, stations, people movement, number of cars/train. Obsolete before completed. I.e. Taksin station, Siam Stations (major transfer point), All trains to say Bearing completely jammed until well into the evening.

 

[YeahSiam]

In a nutshell, those perpetually forecasting the demise of this country's tourism sector do so owing to a collective case of sour grapes.

They want their predictions to come true as a way of saying "up yours" to the TAT etc for not treating farang tourists better because, after all, Westerners apparently spend more than any other visitors. Sorry but a barfine, a 3,000 baht compensation for a brass and a couple of jars during happy hour does not a big spender make.

 

They've had their noses put out of joint by the country's decision to focus on visitors from China even though there's evidence of the Chinese spending lots of money at Chinese-owned businesses (all of whom employ Thais and pay Thai taxes)

 

Are the Chinese represented in great numbers in Soi Cowboy or Nana Plaza? No they aren't but they're very well represented in the relatively lower-profile enclaves around Ratchada, Huay Kwang.

Just because Bert from Great Yarmouth doesn't see the Chinese at the Dollhouse on Soi Cowboy or nursing a lager top at the shitholes on lower Sukhumvit doesn't mean they're not here and spending money. 

 

[impulse]

2 minutes ago, catinthehat said:

much like the piss poor planning of the BTS layout, stations, people movement, number of cars/train. Obsolete before completed. I.e. Taksin station, Siam Stations (major transfer point), All trains to say Bearing completely jammed until well into the evening.

 

And just like the Purple Line today, I read that people wondered for years if the BTS could keep running because of lack of riders.  I imagine even Siam Station looked like a ghost facility until the venues it facilitated came into operation.

 

Between building it and hoping they'll come, and building it because the one you have is jam packed and overcrowded, I can't argue with the direction they decided on.  I don't know what they do.

[Motown239]

It's seems from personal experience, most of the tourist are Millenniums i.e., backpackers and budget travellers. It's not just Europeans or Americans, there's lots of Asians migrating through the "Asian Backpacker Road".

It's an interesting way to travel and experience both the beautiful culture and natural beauty of Asia.

These folks are spending

It's like a migration of tourist traveling visiting Cambodia, Laos, Myanmar , Thailand and Vietnam.

It's the state of mind of the traveller and the tranquility of the natural environment and cheap accommodation that's fueling the Asian Backpacker Road . . . . not expensive hotels, restaurants and tours.

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

[morrobay]

20 hours ago, candide said:

I was in Jomtien 10 days ago and it was the same. Even hotels with ideal location on the beach were nearly empty.

Apparently they have never heard of price/capacity management. I checked on some websites and they keep the same price as before. It seems they prefer to keep their hotel empty rather than making discounts and cover at least their operating expenses.

Forget the website prices.There is a hotel about soi 5/beach with a big banner advertising about 1/2 price rooms, in highest season 

And from what Im seeing around Pattaya : Its an Asian high season this year. Chinese, Koreans and to some extent Indians. And of course the Thai tourists in increasing numbers.

Alot of  Russians  along the beach too, but not really for all that long.

Edited December 28, 2016 by morrobay
add

[Squeegee]

7 hours ago, YeahSiam said:

 

 

You don't half blow hard, do you?

 

I make no apologies for Thais - my comments on tourism are based on what I see here in a tourist-heavy part of Bangkok, not from the Thaivisa news page read from verandah on a McMansion  next to a pig-farm in deep Isaan .  

Is Thailand a "potentially unsafe place"? Sure it is; farangs do get mugged or beaten but many of us come a cropper because of our own stupidity but on the whole, many farangs report feeling safer in Thailand than they do in their own countries.

 

You claim I'm making up the farang's desire for deified status? Just read through any "has Thailand changed"-type thread on here.

Full of "they used to wai me but don't any more" or "they don't want us here" as if Thais should have any more interest in us beyond our ability to spend when most of us can't even string a sentence together in their language.

 

Tourists come here to enjoy the weather, beaches, sex scene or whatever.

The only ones who give a shit about service levels are those who go to the high end resorts like Sri Panwa etc where they get exactly what they pay for. 

You don't rent a room at a Khaosan guesthouse and expect 5* service, do you?

 

 

 

"I make no apologies for Thais - my comments on tourism are based on what I see here in a tourist-heavy part of Bangkok, not from the Thaivisa news page read from verandah on a McMansion  next to a pig-farm in deep Isaan."

 

A single gateway should be just fine for you, then. You won't be missing any freedom of information whilst you go round in circles in your little Bangkok fishbowl, sounding like someone's bar girl girlfriend who thinks all Westerners are "butterfly" because that's what she sees in front of her face and she disregards outside sources.

 

I needn't paint it (or you) like that.

 

Here is a different example from my own experience that is also in an area of Bangkok that many foreigners go to:

I went out to eat after work with two teaching assistant friends that I worked with.

 

I knew that my friend 'A' is progressive and smart, a perfect good Thai lady for a Western guy (beautiful too) and now two years later she's married with a Western husband.

My other friend 'O' wanted a Thai husband. When I asked why she said foreigners are too unfaithful. She is a traditional Thai lady who has not spent her adult life down lower Sukhumvit.

 

Perhaps it's kinder of me to say you sound like her, then (but one gateway fits all).

 

 

So many stupid, rude foreigners right? I don't disagree. A majority? That will often also reflect the lowest common denominator, so yes it's the easiest thing in the world to complain about what goes on in Thailand and do it lazily, but that majority also reflects a reality.

 

You said Westerners are staying away not because Thais were scamming them but because they were no longer being treated like Gods which they feel they deserve. That is a gross injustice on most reasonable Westerners who often have good reason to want to come here to complain or blow off steam and by doing so they are doing the right thing.

 

If you want to belong to those who grin and bear it with their head in the sand you should apply for Thai citizenship, you'll fit right in to that as well as their gateway.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

"Is Thailand a "potentially unsafe place"? Sure it is; farangs do get mugged or beaten..."

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

"...but many of us come a cropper because of our own stupidity..."

 

Yes, if you mean many of us who go to seedy areas or tourist traps whilst being uninformed or badly behaved.

No, if you base your perception of Westerners on what you see in seedy areas you lack perspective and find yourself talking like a bar girl teaching assistant.

 

 

 

 

 

"...but on the whole, many farangs report feeling safer in Thailand than they do in their own countries.

 

I wouldn't have disagreed with that in the past, but saying it now shows you are unaware of the changing perception and image of Thailand, and unaware of what people are really thinking and feeling about it, or maybe you are just not being honest with yourself.

 

 

 

"You claim I'm making up the farang's desire for deified status? Just read through any "has Thailand changed"-type thread on here. Full of "they used to wai me but don't any more" or "they don't want us here..."

 

Some of those people are simply expressing a situation in their own way. It may not be the most eloquent way but it doesn't mean they are stupid or are negative because they behave badly themselves.

 

I agree some are just stupid like you say, but I take issue with your blanket generalisation about Westerners and that made it easy for someone like me to pick you up on it. Even so, in my opinion it is not even most of the Westerners, it's a minority and that makes generalising so much worse.

 

We need generalisations, they serve a purpose for communication to get us into the same ballpark and can help us save time, but if they are not qualified in some way they are usually unhelpful (as is the case here).

 

You gave me an example topic and two undeniably typical comments from it. I will answer one of them:

 

"They used to wai me but they don't any more."

Of all the people who might actually say this, are they all really expressing that they feel they deserve to be treated like a god?

 

I wish I could give you the benefit of the doubt and accept you were just exaggerating when you say something so ridiculous, but your wording of 'deified status' leaves no doubt so you don't even mean they think they deserve special treatment. Nope, most definitely god-like!

 

No sir, Westerners are not all expressing that they feel they deserve to be treated like a god, I would say most are actually just making a simple, objective observation that is entirely on the topic of your example thread. They just don't write essays like I do.

 

 

 

"as if Thais should have any more interest in us beyond our ability to spend"

 

Where was it you said you are not an apologist?

The Thais must take responsibility.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

"...when most of us can't even string a sentence together in their language."

 

Even fewer of us can string a sentence together in Cambodian or Vietnamese but there aren't anything like the amounts of news reports or personal experiences of the sort of shenanigans that go on in Thailand, nor the scale of them.

 

I can speak Thai.

I think it's not necessary for every foreigner in Thailand to speak the language.

I think it's rather pointless for some foreigners in Thailand to speak the language.

I think most foreigners in Thailand could.. try.. harder.

I think quite a few foreigners in Thailand could really enhance their quality of life by using the language more.

 

None of that has much to do with what you were really doing with the quote above, which was trying to shift responsibility for what goes on in Thailand onto foreigners.

 

 

 

 

 

Meanwhile, back in the realm of the absurd:

 

"Tourists come here to enjoy the weather, beaches, sex scene or whatever.

The only ones who give a shit about service levels are those who go to the high end resorts like Sri Panwa etc where they get exactly what they pay for."

 

How do wannabe god-like figures not give a shit about service levels?

 

 

 

 

 

 

You don't rent a room at a Khaosan guesthouse and expect 5* service, do you?"

 

Yup, single gateway, Lalaland & you: happy New Year!

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 28, 2016 by Squeegee
Er, yeah, I probably blow hard.