How Would You Set Up The Thai Visa System?

[DFCarlson]

There has been a lot of conversation in this forum about the way that the Thai immigration authorities have set up the visa system and about how difficult it can be to follow the rules even as they now exist, especially with the recent massive changes to the system.

Many forum members have told about residents in Thailand who contribute both personally and financially to Thailand but who cannot find a reasonable way to stay on here. There are also those who complain about the idiots and hangers-on who detract from the Thai experience and contribute nothing. There have been a lot of comments about those who stay on here with a "tourist" visa but who are really not tourists.

I'm curious... If you had the authority to set up the visa system any way you wanted, AND if you wanted to maximize the good and minimize the bad aspects of this for the greater good of Thailand, what would you do? How would you define visa caegories, requirements and restrictions to attain this end? Is it possible to simplify and improve on the existing laws?

I know I'm risking getting a lot of rants and stories about the way things are now, but that's not what I'm asking for. I know that there are many intelligent and thoughtful forum members who may have already thought about this question. Maybe this needs a "zero based" approach?

Moderators: Maybe this thread is in the wrong area, is so, please feel free to move it to an appropriate area!

Edited December 8, 2006 by DFCarlson

[jumnien]

Well, I'd make it easier for people like US to stay here and harder for people like THEM; I think everyone would agree! Seriously, I think the immigration situation is moving in an ever more favorable direction. The old running to the border every thirty days was a bit absurd...

[dr_Pat_Pong]

There has been a lot of conversation in this forum about the way that the Thai immigration authorities have set up the visa system and about how difficult it can be to follow the rules even as they now exist, especially with the recent massive changes to the system.

Many forum members have told about residents in Thailand who contribute both personally and financially to Thailand but who cannot find a reasonable way to stay on here. There are also those who complain about the idiots and hangers-on who detract from the Thai experience and contribute nothing. There have been a lot of comments about those who stay on here with a "tourist" visa but who are really not tourists.

I'm curious... If you had the authority to set up the visa system any way you wanted, AND if you wanted to maximize the good and minimize the bad aspects of this for the greater good of Thailand, what would you do? How would you define visa caegories, requirements and restrictions to attain this end? Is it possible to simplify and improve on the existing laws?

I know I'm risking getting a lot of rants and stories about the way things are now, but that's not what I'm asking for. Maybe this needs a "zero based" approach?

Moderators: Maybe this thread is in the wrong area, is so, please feel free to move it to an appropriate area!

As an Admin I'll stay clear of coming up with a new system DFC, but I think you have posed a worthwhile set of questions. I look forward to seeing how the topic goes. You'd best copyright

it in case MFA and Immigration nick it.

[DFCarlson]

Well, I'd make it easier for people like US to stay here and harder for people like THEM; I think everyone would agree! Seriously, I think the immigration situation is moving in an ever more favorable direction. The old running to the border every thirty days was a bit absurd...

I agree, and I think I can understand your meaning, but if the laws are to be set up to make it easier for people like US to stay here and harder for people like THEM, then we have to define what US and THEM means.

Running to the border every thirty days WAS (and is even now) a bit absurd but then if you're in that situation you're not really a tourist. Maybe there needs to be a visa category so that for legit wanna-be residents there's a better way than to use tourist visas for non-tourist ends.

[Sunny Valentine]

Set up three Categories:

A) Tourists. Keep the 30 Day Stamps and the Tourist Visas, allow Multiple TOurist Visas up to some extent, maybe create a Multiple-Year Tourist Visa that allows the owner to stay up to 180 Days each Calendar Year, bo matter how many border crossings. Fees should be nominal for these Visas.

Long Stay Visa: Set up financial rules, like 1000000 proof of income or funds, make it a bit cheaper for the married and the retired, but basically allow anyone with reasonable income and/or funds and proof thereof to live in the country. Maybe have them report to the Immigration for checks every 6 month or Year, and have some more reasonable rules like no making trouble (Police report maybe?). Charge hefty fees for the priviledge, and reduce them for Married, Retired and maybe Students or so.

c) Working Visa: Set the rules for Work Permits, and have Immigration follow the timelines set by the Work Permit. If Labor Department issues a WP for a limited time, your Permission to Stay will be extended accordingly. Two differnet bodies following incongruent rules does do good to nobody!

And finally, get rid of the Reentry Permit. Every holder of a b or c Visa in my terminolgy can freely leave and return to Thailand as he wishes. Something like an automatic Reentry Permit.

That shoud do it. I am sure someone will find a loophole or two, these can be looked into, but within resason.

Sunny

[aussiestyle1983]

1- I would simply eliminate the need for visa/ border runs. These trips are seriously just a waste of time and money (especially for the 1 year non immigrant visa holders)

If you hold a one year non immigrant visa, rather than recieving a 90 day stamp, you would be stamped in untill the date your visa expires. That would be the main thing that needs to be fixed, ellimination of un-necessary visa runs and BS such as 90 day reporting.

2- Change the visa catagories slightly and ease up or tighten up some requirements.

>Visa exempt stamps still available, but there would be no set limits on the number of stamps, but days limited to 120 days per 180 days. These would be issued by the border immigration officer after an examination of your passport. If the officer sees you have reason to enter you will recieve your 30 days, but if your passport indicates you are living here on visa exempt stamps, you would be refused. If you wanted to stay longer, time for a tourist visa.

> Tourist visa, only single entry available, good for a 90 day stay in the kingdom and able to be extended for up to a further 90 days at immigration in Thailand at the descression of the immigration officer.

> Non Immigrant visas, still available in many catagories, however, all non immigrant visas valid for 1 year and when you enter thailand you will be stamped in for as long as your visa is valid which would eliminate the need for visa runs. You can still extend these visas indeffinently at immigration, but the requirements would be eased so more legit people who are not rich can stay.

> All other visas like the retirement and marriage visa would fall into the catagory "migrant" visas. This would cover the other long stay visas, and 90 day reporting would be cut to yearly reporting which could be done when you recieve your annual extension.

Edited December 8, 2006 by aussiestyle1983

[punisher]

There has been a lot of conversation in this forum about the way that the Thai immigration authorities have set up the visa system and about how difficult it can be to follow the rules even as they now exist, especially with the recent massive changes to the system.

Many forum members have told about residents in Thailand who contribute both personally and financially to Thailand but who cannot find a reasonable way to stay on here. There are also those who complain about the idiots and hangers-on who detract from the Thai experience and contribute nothing. There have been a lot of comments about those who stay on here with a "tourist" visa but who are really not tourists.

I'm curious... If you had the authority to set up the visa system any way you wanted, AND if you wanted to maximize the good and minimize the bad aspects of this for the greater good of Thailand, what would you do? How would you define visa caegories, requirements and restrictions to attain this end? Is it possible to simplify and improve on the existing laws?

I know I'm risking getting a lot of rants and stories about the way things are now, but that's not what I'm asking for. I know that there are many intelligent and thoughtful forum members who may have already thought about this question. Maybe this needs a "zero based" approach?

Moderators: Maybe this thread is in the wrong area, is so, please feel free to move it to an appropriate area!

Well,nothing wrong with old or new visa rules,the only thing what is wrong is,that the imigration guys dont follow the rules,if they would keep and play with the written down rules,there would be no problem at all,but this is a 3rd world country here!!!

[DFCarlson]

1- I would simply eliminate the need for visa/ border runs. These trips are seriously just a waste of time and money (especially for the 1 year non immigrant visa holders)

If you hold a one year non immigrant visa, rather than recieving a 90 day stamp, you would be stamped in untill the date your visa expires. That would be the main thing that needs to be fixed, ellimination of un-necessary visa runs and BS such as 90 day reporting.

2- Change the visa catagories slightly and ease up or tighten up some requirements.

>Visa exempt stamps still available, but there would be no set limits on the number of stamps, but days limited to 120 days per 180 days. These would be issued by the border immigration officer after an examination of your passport. If the officer sees you have reason to enter you will recieve your 30 days, but if your passport indicates you are living here on visa exempt stamps, you would be refused. If you wanted to stay longer, time for a tourist visa.

> Tourist visa, only single entry available, good for a 90 day stay in the kingdom and able to be extended for up to a further 90 days at immigration in Thailand at the descression of the immigration officer.

> Non Immigrant visas, still available in many catagories, however, all non immigrant visas valid for 1 year and when you enter thailand you will be stamped in for as long as your visa is valid which would eliminate the need for visa runs. You can still extend these visas indeffinently at immigration, but the requirements would be eased so more legit people who are not rich can stay.

> All other visas like the retirement and marriage visa would fall into the catagory "migrant" visas. This would cover the other long stay visas, and 90 day reporting would be cut to yearly reporting which could be done when you recieve your annual extension.

I like the approach, but maybe it could be simplified. How about:

Tourist Visa -

30 day initial permission to stay at no cost, renew up to 2 times (90 day max stay) for 1000 baht per renewal. You would be allowed to stay as a tourist for 90 days per calendar year. Realistically, if you stay longer, you're not a tourist.

Residence Visa (replaces retirement and marriage visas) -

One year permission to stay, 5000 baht per year, renewable indefinitely, initially and for each renewal show 400,000 baht in a bank account (any currency) or equivalent pension or investment income. Allows the individual to work as an employee (in areas of employment as currently defined by the government) or study at any school. No age restrictions. Setting up and running your own business is not allowed. Work permit cost borne by employers.

Business Visa--

Three year permission to stay, cost 40,000 baht per year, renewable indefinitely. Initially required to show 1,000,000 baht in a bank account (any currency). For renewal, required to show 400,000 baht in a bank account and that the business is still in operation and has paid all reuired taxes. Allows the individual to set up and run a business in Thailand. Requires registration and payment of taxes on business income, and compliance with all other Thai laws pertaining to the operation of businesses. Work permit cost borne by the business.

Retention of visa does not depend on having a work permit.

No restrictions on conversion of one type visa to another type of visa if you meet the initial requirements.

Clearly stated immigration laws to be evenly applied at all immigration offices throughout the country.

I think that these cover the three main categories, tourist, resident (married or single, employed or unemployed), and business . Do you need more?

Edited December 9, 2006 by DFCarlson

[Jingthing]

For longer term retirees, there needs to be an automatic, clear path to higher status after three to five years. Imagine living in Thailand as an aging retiree after 10 years and then being kicked out based on some technicality of not qualifying for a one year extension.

Edited December 9, 2006 by Jingthing

[DFCarlson]

For longer term retirees, there needs to be an automatic, clear path to higher status after three to five years. Imagine living in Thailand as an aging retiree after 10 years and then being kicked out based on some technicality of not qualifying for a one year extension.

Jingthing, I definitely agree. I think you're right that 3 to 5 years is a good time period, maybe 3 years is too short a time.

But certainly if you've lived in Thailand for 5 years, and have been able to show the necessary financial support each year, you've proved clearly able to manage your affairs to show the money in the bank for each subsequent years' renewal.

Maybe after you turn 60 years old and have been in Thailand for 5 years or more, the permission to stay time period could be increased. OR the requirement to renew each year could be removed.

What "higher status" categories would you define?

Edited December 9, 2006 by DFCarlson