Malaysia versus Thailand retirement program

[EricTh]

On 12/29/2016 at 10:39 AM, NancyL said:

 

 

Hubby and I returned late last week from a trip to Malaysia where, among other things, we investigated the "Malaysia My Second Home" 10 year visa.  

 

So how was your investigation?

 

I don't think Malaysia needs the foreign retirees to report very 90 days, do they?

 

Do you see any people queuing up at ungodly hours for the retirement queue in Malaysia?

[EricTh]

On 1/2/2017 at 10:52 PM, xng said:

 

So how was your investigation?

 

I don't think Malaysia needs the foreign retirees to report very 90 days, do they?

 

Do you see any people queuing up at ungodly hours for the retirement queue in Malaysia?

 

 

That's absolutely correct.  No need for reporting or queueing.  In fact, most of the application process is done by post, it seems.   Foreigners can own a primary residence -- house AND land in their own name.  They can either import a car duty free or purchase one tax & duty free during their first six months.  You can volunteer without the need for a work permit and work at a paying job up so many hours per month, depending on your age.

 

But, you have to maintain a bank balance in the country at all times -- none of this bit about just having it "season" for a few months ahead of annual "renewal".  AND you have to show monthly income from abroad.  Plus, you have to have medical insurance cover.  So, the financial requirements are higher than Thailand's and it doesn't look like there is room to "play games" like applicants can in Thailand.  Plus, if you apply for the MM2H visa in the two states in Borneo, where we looked, the financial requirements are a little higher AND you need several local references.  Interestingly, those two states even restrict that ability of people from western Malaysia to come work there.

 

All-in-all it's a very well thought-out program, intended for people who plan ahead and aren't living on the edge financially.  You don't have to be rich to utilize this visa program, but certainly not someone who is just scraping by.  It appears as if you're treated with respect by the people in gov't tasked with enforcement of the program, too.    

[EricTh]

23 hours ago, NancyL said:

 

 

But, you have to maintain a bank balance in the country at all times -- none of this bit about just having it "season" for a few months ahead of annual "renewal".  AND you have to show monthly income from abroad.  Plus, you have to have medical insurance cover.  So, the financial requirements are higher than Thailand's 

 

It seems that Thailand is copying Malaysia's 10 year visa program of medical insurance and higher requirement for their new 10 year visa program.

 

Even Thailand's new 10 year visa program won't allow retirees to own land and house. The most you can own is a condo with all its disadvantages.

 

[EricTh]

10 hours ago, roo860 said:

Disadvantages?

Sent from my SM-G920F using Thaivisa Connect mobile app
 

 

 

 

Some of the disadvantages are

 

1. Condo space is smaller than a house.

 

2. There is no garden in a condo

 

3. You can't cook with gas

 

4. Your neighbours (up, down, side) can be quite noisy when they play their music loudly and when the adjoining walls are thin. I hear toilet flushing at 2 am every time my neighbour upstairs come home drunk. That woke me up in the middle of the night.

 

5. Technically , you can't own any pets in a condo.

 

6. There's not enough space to dry your clothes using the sun. For most condos, we have to share the washing machine downstairs and waiting time can be quite long.

 

[EricTh]

7 hours ago, NancyL said:

Yes, we've gone off topic, but we looked at rental condos in Sabah state, Malaysia and found that "the standard", at least what was shown to us was at least two bedrooms, two baths, most were three bedrooms, two and a half bath, with space of 90 sq. meters to 150 sq. meters.  Frankly, I don't know what we'd do with all that extra space.  

 

Also, the norm is to have a separate outside area for washer, dryer, a sink, counter and drying area.  In fact, in most buildings it was forbidden to show your laundry from the balcony.  They had to be in these special rooms, which technically were outside, but not really visible.  Amazingly, the kitchens were set up with ovens and gas cook-tops.  Maybe had something to do with regulations about having exhaust hoods that actually sent the fumes to the outside.  The space was utilized better, with more storage.  And every building had a nice swimming pool and fitness center.  On a price per square meter, it was entirely competitive with CM.  What we didn't see were 55  sq. meter units of new construction being sold as one-bedroom units, jury-rigged with partisans and faux walls to create the impression of a bedroom.

 

Oh, and everyone seems to think that pets that never leave the condo (i.e. cats) are OK.  So much for No. 1, 3, 5 and 6 of xng's post.  And something tells me that No. 4 won't be a problem.  Never has been here, either.  As for No. 2 -- well, after owning and operating a greenhouse/nursery business in the U.S., the last thing Hubby and I want is a "garden".  Every time we look at a plant, all we can see are the problems it has, its past and future.  

 

A surrounding garden in a house do isolate you from the noise from adjoining thin walls from your neighbour besides being more aesthetic and cooler.

 

In Thailand, the garden is used to dry your clothes in the sun. They don't use a dryer machine if they own a house because electricity is expensive when compared to the free sun.

 

The average sized condo in Thailand can be extremely hot (if you don't turn on your air-cond) during the month from March to September. I was sweating inside my condo in September.

 

I am just commenting on the average condo in Thailand. They don't allow gas cooking and almost all use shared washing machine. Almost all the condos I've asked have these restrictions in Thailand.

 

Of course, it could be different for the more 'luxurious' condo in Thailand.

 

 

[stuurman]

Hi I lived for 6 years in Penang, Malaysia with a Malaysia My Second Home visa before I moved to Chiang Mai. The visa is pretty straight forward and once you have it no more reporting at immigration.

We lived in condo's and had two cats without much of a problem. It's easy to buy property and not so difficult to resell it, we did both. 

But to be honest apart from the better visa situation there isn't much else I can think of that stands out in Malaysia when comparing Chiang Mai and Penang. 

 

[jobin]

Only younger 'retired' folks can find reasonably priced health insurance.  If age 70+, cheaper to get sick and pay cash for treatment.

And regarding Malaysia, i would not care to live in a muslim country, not for one minute. 

[NancyL]

Yes, Malaysia is a majority Muslim country, but they pride themselves on being multi-cultural.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Malaysia

 

East Malaysia is often overlooked in discussions of retiring to Malaysia.  Sawarak and Sabah state joined the Federation late and negotiated some special treatment and this is reflected in some special rules for their MM2H program, too.  Sawarak is a majority Christian state. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarawak#Religion   

 

I have a charming video of a Rotary club Christmas party in Sabah state where the lead vocals were done by a young woman in a Muslim headscarf, doing a great job of singing Christmas carols in English and some of the Rotary club guys in the band were wearing Muslim hats, sitting in front of a big sign that says "Merry Christmas 2016".   It's just that kind of tolerant place where each group celebrates each other's holidays.  

[NancyL]

We were impressed with the investment in infrastructure that seems to be lacking in Chiang Mai.  Nice wide roads.  Sidewalks (footpaths) that are wide and used for their intended purpose.  Curb cuts for prams and wheelchairs.  Walkable downtown areas.  Traffic stopped for pedestrian crossings.  Very few motorcycles and those we saw, the drivers all wore helmets.  Car drivers wore seat belts and waited until we buckled up before taking off.  Even the taxi drivers.   Where there were overhead electrical wires, they were under control.  Of course, it probably should be mentioned that the entire north coast of Borneo was pretty much bombed to rubble during WWII, but it's been rebuilt nicely with good planning.  

[stuurman]

22 minutes ago, NancyL said:

Yes, Malaysia is a majority Muslim country, but they pride themselves on being multi-cultural.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Malaysia

 

 They indeed do but over the years we lived there we saw racial tensions rise and the country getting more and more conservative. They are in the process of legalising Sharia law that could introduce stonings and amputations. There are active policies to populate states with a Muslim minority as Penang and Sabah with more Malays so a Malay majority can be established in those states as well. As for infrastructure, good indeed in the Malay predominated states. Penang for example got almost completely cut off from government funding as a punishment for voting for the opposition. The roads there look like a patched up minefield, much worse than I have ever seen here.

[BWPattaya]

But! Who would want to live in Malaysia?

On a separate note, a friend of mine who was born in  Penang lost her citizenship when she worked in the U.K. and married an Englishman. They are now retired but cannot live in Penang with her mother as they do not fulfil the MM2H requirements. They live in Thailand so can visit family when they want. 

[Destiny1990]

Never ever i have met a person that prefered living in Malaysia over Thailand.The single point that Malaysia tops Thailand is inregard with visa and homeownership regulations.

[SaintLouisBlues]

2 minutes ago, Destiny1990 said:

Never ever i have met a person that prefered living in Malaysia over Thailand.The single point that Malaysia tops Thailand is inregard with visa and homeownership regulations.

Malaysians (and Malays in particular) come to Thailand for fun. Thais do not go to Malaysia for fun

[Destiny1990]

Just now, SaintLouisBlues said:

Malaysians (and Malays in particular) come to Thailand for fun. Thais do not go to Malaysia for fun

Yes nothing funny there but also farangs are always glad to return from Malaysia to Thailand.i been in Kl and Penang and honestly i felt it was 50 years behind with Thailand its a deadboring Country.

[12DrinkMore]

Malaysia has been struck off my list since they destroyed the Sky Kingdom and its Teapot.

 

Reinforced by recent calls to instate the death penalty for apostasy.

 

http://www.breitbart.com/national-security/2015/03/20/malaysian-state-proposes-bill-issuing-death-penalty-for-apostasy/

 

It is not a civilised country.

[EricTh]

17 minutes ago, 12DrinkMore said:

Malaysia has been struck off my list since they destroyed the Sky Kingdom and its Teapot.

 

 

 

What do you mean by Sky Kingdom and teapot?

[natway09]

Malaysia is a Muslim state where further restrictions are soon going to be made in that regard.

No longer allowed external crosses on churches

Shah Alam is now alcohol free.

Sharia law soon to be enacted.

No thanks, I will stay in Thailand or even  funnily enough  look at Indonesia

[TheGhostWithin]

45 minutes ago, natway09 said:

Malaysia is a Muslim state where further restrictions are soon going to be made in that regard.

No longer allowed external crosses on churches

Shah Alam is now alcohol free.

Sharia law soon to be enacted.

No thanks, I will stay in Thailand or even  funnily enough  look at Indonesia

Kalantan and Alor Setar are finally having their influence over KL, with those of other faiths being punished in places like Penang. Sharia law is already law in Borneo is it not?

 

Malaysia is a country with so much potential, however an entire generation of segregation and specialist treatment of one ethnic group over another under the veil of multicultural inclusion has caused it to fail to reach this potential.

 

And no, Malays are not the native people of Malaysia. They came after the Kadazan, they came from Indonesia.

 

Their visa system is better (on paper and from those above that have experienced it) but the environment is less ideal.

[elgordo38]

9 hours ago, xng said:

 

That's absolutely correct.  No need for reporting or queueing.  In fact, most of the application process is done by post, it seems.   Foreigners can own a primary residence -- house AND land in their own name.  They can either import a car duty free or purchase one tax & duty free during their first six months.  You can volunteer without the need for a work permit and work at a paying job up so many hours per month, depending on your age.

 

But, you have to maintain a bank balance in the country at all times -- none of this bit about just having it "season" for a few months ahead of annual "renewal".  AND you have to show monthly income from abroad.  Plus, you have to have medical insurance cover.  So, the financial requirements are higher than Thailand's and it doesn't look like there is room to "play games" like applicants can in Thailand.  Plus, if you apply for the MM2H visa in the two states in Borneo, where we looked, the financial requirements are a little higher AND you need several local references.  Interestingly, those two states even restrict that ability of people from western Malaysia to come work there.

 

All-in-all it's a very well thought-out program, intended for people who plan ahead and aren't living on the edge financially.  You don't have to be rich to utilize this visa program, but certainly not someone who is just scraping by.  It appears as if you're treated with respect by the people in gov't tasked with enforcement of the program, too.    

Well written deserves a like

[zorro1]

The only downside of course is you actually have to live there. Ok for couples who could probably live happily anywhere

[NancyL]

39 minutes ago, TheGhostWithin said:

Kalantan and Alor Setar are finally having their influence over KL, with those of other faiths being punished in places like Penang. Sharia law is already law in Borneo is it not?

 

Malaysia is a country with so much potential, however an entire generation of segregation and specialist treatment of one ethnic group over another under the veil of multicultural inclusion has caused it to fail to reach this potential.

 

And no, Malays are not the native people of Malaysia. They came after the Kadazan, they came from Indonesia.

 

Their visa system is better (on paper and from those above that have experienced it) but the environment is less ideal.

 

Did not see evidence of "Sharia law" being in place in Borneo.  Perhaps within certain communities, but not within the general public.  Saw Christian crosses on churches, billboards, better Christmas displays in the malls than here, but not the same emphasis on the commercial aspect of buy, buy, buy like you see in Thailand.   It was more like Christmas and New Years is a family time with  Santas and very pretty decorations in the malls and Muslim, Chinese and native Kadazan families bringing their kids to dance around and pose with Santa for photos.  They tell me it's not this way in KL.  

 

Remember people from western Malaysia have to pass thru Imm. and get permission to enter and work in Borneo, much like foreigners do.  

 

Yes, I'm a little concerned that it's in a Muslim area.  Much like Thailand, the advice probably should be rent, don't buy and don't invest any more than you can afford to leave behind.  But, it's not like living in a compound some straight-laced Middle Eastern country for goodness sake.  Liquor and wine are freely available -- even properly served by Muslim wait staff in the restaurants.  People are friendly, although not in the out-going in-your-face-way that Thai people can be.  (Gee, no one asked me my age or how much my husband earns in Malaysia.  Should I be concerned?  Does that mean they don't like me?)

[NancyL]

4 minutes ago, zorro1 said:

The only downside of course is you actually have to live there. Ok for couples who could probably live happily anywhere

 

Yes, that's the thing.  It's not a place for single guys looking for action.  You know, as an older, retired couple it can get a little tiresome being around other expats who are single guys looking for action.  Especially when they're our age.

[The Dark Lord]

15 minutes ago, elgordo38 said:

Well written deserves a like

I would like more info so as to make an informed decision on the future.

 

could I be pm'd please?

[NancyL]

OK, the comment about Borneo "already being under Sharia law" got me to consult Dr. Google, esp. since it wasn't what I observed. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_Malaysia   As you can read, where Sharia law applies in Malaysia, it applies only to Muslims and only in matters of marriage, inheritance and apostasy.   As Wiki says "sharia law plays a relatively small role in defining the laws of the country."

 

Where the previous poster may have been confused in thinking that "Borneo is already under Sharia law" is because the small country of Brunei is.  Brunei is a small, oil-rich country between Sarawak and Sabah states of Malaysia.  As this Bloomberg article details, all secular expressions of Christmas were outlawed in that country in 2014:  https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2015-01-15/emerging-markets-vs-sharia-law   This may explain why the malls in Sabah and Sawarak, Malaysia were so dressed up and busy for Christmas.  People from Brunei often drive into Malaysia to shop, buy liquor and have a good time.  Also, it may very well be that posing for a photo with Santa has become a form of social protest.  

[ThaiWai]

Southern Thailand is enough Muslim for me.  I wouldn't stay in Malaysia if they gave me a free house.  Was in Penang last week and couldn't wait to get back.  Kuala Lumpur is even worse.

[thurien]

3 hours ago, SaintLouisBlues said:

Malaysians (and Malays in particular) come to Thailand for fun

 

and the big fun starts right yonder the border in Pasar Besar (i.e.):

floozies, booze, pork chops ... and: left their muslim caps behind in Muslim country

[Jane Dough]

I love visiting Malaysia. It usually lasts five minutes before i start missing Thailand. 

[lungnorm]

Malaysia Have you people forgotten its Muslim Country with barbaric ideas and laws. No way Jose

[EricTh]

1 hour ago, NancyL said:

 

 

Yes, I'm a little concerned that it's in a Muslim area.  

 

From the comments here, most if not all members are islamophobic.

 

Just as Thailand being a Buddhist country has an Islamic region ie. Southern Thailand, Malaysia seems to have a Christian region in East Malaysia ie. Borneo and a small Buddhist island called Penang.

 

[lungnorm]

1 minute ago, xng said:

 

From the comments here, most if not all members are islamophobic.

 

Just as Thailand being a Buddhist country has an Islamic region ie. Southern Thailand, Malaysia seems to have a Christian region in West Malaysia ie. Borneo.

 

So the shit will hit the fan sooner or later.