Thai Consulates in US can not longer issue multi-entry visas

[heybruce]

On 1/5/2017 at 3:09 AM, Lee4Life said:

 

I applied for and received a multi-entry retirement visa from the LA Consulate a few months ago. I used a background check from the state police and they accepted it unquestioningly. Make sure you get everything notarized though...including the background check, our state police (Washington) charged an extra fee for the notarization. I applied for the background check online.

 

I went to the consulate in person because of the long wait time listed on the website for the consulate, but others reported that they had applied by mail and received their passports back with the visas in less than half of the time on listed on the website.  hope this helps

How do I get everything notarized?  I can print copies of bank statements and statements of income from the internet, but notaries don't notarize things printed from the internet.  Also, my doctor doesn't have a notary working in his office, so the medical certificate he signed wasn't witnessed by a notary and can't be notarized.

 

There must be a way around this "everything must be notarized" rule, but I haven't found it.

 

 

[Lee4Life]

1 hour ago, heybruce said:

How do I get everything notarized?  I can print copies of bank statements and statements of income from the internet, but notaries don't notarize things printed from the internet.  Also, my doctor doesn't have a notary working in his office, so the medical certificate he signed wasn't witnessed by a notary and can't be notarized.

 

There must be a way around this "everything must be notarized" rule, but I haven't found it.

 

 

 

  It is difficult to get everything notarized, but it is part of the requirements. I am sorry your doctor does not have a notary in the office, many of the larger clinics do. When I applied for the background check through our state police the application form had a box to check if you wished to have the results notarized. As far as the proof of income, I went to my bank and had them write a letter verifying the most current statement and funds and had them notarize it. I would be very surprised if they accepted something you printed off the internet for proof of funds.

  

     While I waited for my visa at the consulate I overheard another fellow who was attempting to apply for a visa say to the person who was going through his paperwork. " notarized! how am I supposed to get that form notarized? I can't drag my doctor to a notary!" .

          I expected them to hand his paperwork back to him but they didn't, I couldn't hear the reply of the consulate worker because they were behind security glass.

            Maybe you could talk to someone at the consulate you are applying at and explain your situation and see if they have any leeway as far as the notarization rule goes.

[heybruce]

18 minutes ago, Lee4Life said:

 

  It is difficult to get everything notarized, but it is part of the requirements. I am sorry your doctor does not have a notary in the office, many of the larger clinics do. When I applied for the background check through our state police the application form had a box to check if you wished to have the results notarized. As far as the proof of income, I went to my bank and had them write a letter verifying the most current statement and funds and had them notarize it. I would be very surprised if they accepted something you printed off the internet for proof of funds.

  

     While I waited for my visa at the consulate I overheard another fellow who was attempting to apply for a visa say to the person who was going through his paperwork. " notarized! how am I supposed to get that form notarized? I can't drag my doctor to a notary!" .

          I expected them to hand his paperwork back to him but they didn't, I couldn't hear the reply of the consulate worker because they were behind security glass.

            Maybe you could talk to someone at the consulate you are applying at and explain your situation and see if they have any leeway as far as the notarization rule goes.

I had the background check apostilled by the state, which is the same as notarized, but my banking and retirement pay are entirely over the internet.

 

I will try calling the consulate on Monday.  The nearest one is about one thousand miles away so visiting isn't an option.  I have yet to find a visa service that provides a phone number, and they are hit or miss regarding answering emails.

 

By taking the process away from the widely distributed honorary consulates the Thai government has made it much more difficult and uncertain.  I expect Thailand will see a significant drop in long-stay visitors.

 

[sqwakvfr]

In terms of notarize a document this is false.  A Notary is actually certifying the person who is  signing the document.  I was a Notary in California for several years.  In the US a Notary is commissioned by the state and the commission is good for 4 years.  A Notary cannot certify any document as being authentic.  If you bring a completed document to any notary the best he can do is to attach a second page with his seal on it.  During the process of Notarizing the Notary verifies the identity of signer, obtains his thumb print, observes the signing and then  makes an entry into his Notary book along with the singer of the document.  If these steps are not followed then the entire process is invalid.  Therefore, one would have to hire a notary and bring him to the doctor's office, the police department, and the bank in order to comply with these requirement.  In my case I would have to bring the Notary to my pension board office (which is only 400 miles away) and have my retirement income document notarized in person.  If this is the case then I would give up on the notion of obtaining aThai retirement visa.  

[sqwakvfr]

One more thing.  I am a retired police officer and we never notarized any documents.  If verification was needed our records phone number was clearly printed on any document we generated(this included all background checks).  I have never heard of any doctor's or medical clinic with an onsite notary.  However some bank employees are commissioned notaries.  I personally know of several people who have obtained Multi Entry O-A Visa's from the LA Consulate and none of their documents were notarized.  I guess I will find out for myself in a couple months.  

[heybruce]

2 hours ago, sqwakvfr said:

In terms of notarize a document this is false.  A Notary is actually certifying the person who is  signing the document.  I was a Notary in California for several years.  In the US a Notary is commissioned by the state and the commission is good for 4 years.  A Notary cannot certify any document as being authentic.  If you bring a completed document to any notary the best he can do is to attach a second page with his seal on it.  During the process of Notarizing the Notary verifies the identity of signer, obtains his thumb print, observes the signing and then  makes an entry into his Notary book along with the singer of the document.  If these steps are not followed then the entire process is invalid.  Therefore, one would have to hire a notary and bring him to the doctor's office, the police department, and the bank in order to comply with these requirement.  In my case I would have to bring the Notary to my pension board office (which is only 400 miles away) and have my retirement income document notarized in person.  If this is the case then I would give up on the notion of obtaining aThai retirement visa.  

Your post supports my general understanding of what a notary does.  This means that it is impossible to follow to the letter the rules imposed by the Chicago and LA consulates for obtaining a retirement visa.  This puts those of us who want a legal visa in a bind.

[Diplomatico]

20 minutes ago, heybruce said:

Your post supports my general understanding of what a notary does.  This means that it is impossible to follow to the letter the rules imposed by the Chicago and LA consulates for obtaining a retirement visa.  This puts those of us who want a legal visa in a bind.

 

  No, it doesn't.  LA consulate accepts the notary's cover page (described above) that lists your documents and "certifies the following documents to be true copies".  Costs $10 to have the notary do this at your local Postal Annex or Mailbox, Etc. stores.  

 

  In my humble opinion, you are making this process entirely too difficult.  It isn't.  

[heybruce]

12 minutes ago, Diplomatico said:

 

  No, it doesn't.  LA consulate accepts the notary's cover page (described above) that lists your documents and "certifies the following documents to be true copies".  Costs $10 to have the notary do this at your local Postal Annex or Mailbox, Etc. stores.  

 

  In my humble opinion, you are making this process entirely too difficult.  It isn't.  

If the consulate will accept that, it should make that clear in the instructions.

 

I've talked to two notaries in my area.  One agreed to the cover page for retirement pay and income pages I printed, but neither would do anything for a medical statement signed by the doctor.  So the notary requirement still presents an obstacle.

[SpokaneAl]

 
  No, it doesn't.  LA consulate accepts the notary's cover page (described above) that lists your documents and "certifies the following documents to be true copies".  Costs $10 to have the notary do this at your local Postal Annex or Mailbox, Etc. stores.  
 
  In my humble opinion, you are making this process entirely too difficult.  It isn't.  

That is precisely what I do when I obtain my non inn o-a multi entry via the LA Thai Consulate and have had no problems. Actually my credit union will provide notary services free to members, so that is where I go with my cover letter.


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[SpokaneAl]

This is what I say in my cover letter, and have had no problems.

I certify that each of the documents enclosed is a true copy.


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[Diplomatico]

7 minutes ago, SpokaneAl said:

This is what I say in my cover letter, and have had no problems.

I certify that each of the documents enclosed is a true copy.


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  Exactly.  Because the notary is certifying your signature stating that the documents are true copies; the notary is not certifying that he or she knows for a fact that the documents are true copies.  

[Langsuan Man]

Since in another year I will have to deal with this foolishness of the notary requirement at the LA Consulate (which in ten years I have not had to do with the Embassy in Washington or Consulate in New York) I have anticipated the problem and solved it with the purchase of this stamp to go along with their notary seal:

 

 

This way the notary is only certifying the document, not the signer 

[SpokaneAl]

Since in another year I will have to deal with this foolishness of the notary requirement at the LA Consulate (which in ten years I have not had to do with the Embassy in Washington or Consulate in New York) I have anticipated the problem and solved it with the purchase of this stamp to go along with their notary seal:

 

 

This way the notary is only certifying the document, not the signer 

With all due respect, I think you are wrong. The notary does not certify a document, he/she only certifies, to the best of his/her ability, the signer.

Even if they could certify a document, how could they possibly certify a document generated from some internet account as being an original document?

I have great respect and appreciation for the LA Consulate staff. They have always done me right.

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[sqwakvfr]

 

Which of the two seals would be acceptable?  These are from the American Society of Notaries website.  The last time I checked it was $10 per page.  

 

State of ______________ County of ____________ On this ___ day of _________, 20___, I certify that the preceding or attached document is a true, exact, complete, and unaltered photocopy made by me from the original document (Description of Document), presented to me by the document’s custodian, (Document Custodian’s Name) and that, to the best of my knowledge, the photocopied document is neither a public record nor a publicly recorded document, certified copies of which are available from an official source other than a notary public.                                                          (Signature of Notary Public)                [SEAL]                              (Printed Name of Notary Public)

 

 

 

State of ______________ County of ____________ I, (Notary’s Name), a notary public, do certify that on this ___ day of _____________, 20___, I carefully compared the attached copy of (Description of Document) with the original. It is a complete and true copy of the original document.                                                          (Signature of Notary Public)                [SEAL]                              (Printed Name of Notary Public)

[SpokaneAl]

 
Which of the two seals would be acceptable?  These are from the American Society of Notaries website.  The last time I checked it was $10 per page.  
 

State of ______________ County of ____________ On this ___ day of _________, 20___, I certify that the preceding or attached document is a true, exact, complete, and unaltered photocopy made by me from the original document (Description of Document), presented to me by the document’s custodian, (Document Custodian’s Name) and that, to the best of my knowledge, the photocopied document is neither a public record nor a publicly recorded document, certified copies of which are available from an official source other than a notary public.                                                          (Signature of Notary Public)                [sEAL]                              (Printed Name of Notary Public)

   
 

State of ______________ County of ____________ I, (Notary’s Name), a notary public, do certify that on this ___ day of _____________, 20___, I carefully compared the attached copy of (Description of Document) with the original. It is a complete and true copy of the original document.                                                          (Signature of Notary Public)                [sEAL]                              (Printed Name of Notary Public)

I think that you are making things too complex. Go back a few posts and look at the simple sentence I use.


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[Diplomatico]

38 minutes ago, Langsuan Man said:

Since in another year I will have to deal with this foolishness of the notary requirement at the LA Consulate (which in ten years I have not had to do with the Embassy in Washington or Consulate in New York) I have anticipated the problem and solved it with the purchase of this stamp to go along with their notary seal:

 

 

This way the notary is only certifying the document, not the signer 

 

  Good luck getting a notary public to sign that.  You certify that it's an original document; the notary witnesses your signature.  Notaries are signatory witnesses, not document certifiers.  

 

  Unless you think the notary will accompany you to the doctor's office and witness his signature on your medical clearance?  

 

  "A Notary's duty is to screen the signers of important documents — such as property deeds, wills and powers of attorney — for their true identity, their willingness to sign without duress or intimidation, and their awareness of the contents of the document or transaction."

 

https://www.nationalnotary.org/knowledge-center/about-notaries

 

  Re-read what Spokane Al and I have written in previous posts.  Both of us have obtained multiple visas from the LA consulate with no problem whatsoever.  

Edited January 8, 2017 by Diplomatico

[heybruce]

1 hour ago, Langsuan Man said:

Since in another year I will have to deal with this foolishness of the notary requirement at the LA Consulate (which in ten years I have not had to do with the Embassy in Washington or Consulate in New York) I have anticipated the problem and solved it with the purchase of this stamp to go along with their notary seal:

 

 

This way the notary is only certifying the document, not the signer 

How has your experience with the embassy in Washington been?  I was warned that they interpret rules excessively strictly--supposedly they are the only visa issuing office that insists on FBI background checks.

[Langsuan Man]

How has your experience with the embassy in Washington been?  I was warned that they interpret rules excessively strictly--supposedly they are the only visa issuing office that insists on FBI background checks.

Used to be great but since the Thai Consular Officer has basically abrogated his responsibilities to a local hire employee (Serbian by her own admission) they have instituted several policies that are theirs alone.

No other Thai Consular Officer in the US has suddenly required an FBI check for example. I had a run in with her about the correct number of copies required. The website showed 1 copy required but she insisted on two copies even after receiving a screenshot of the web page. I received my O-A visa the same day she complained about the number of copies submitted so even then there was a disconnect between her and the Consul
The web site was eventually changed so she would not have to make copies but by then she had moved on to other petty requirements

Lost track when I started getting my O-A visas from New York where a Thai National Foreign Service Officer is in charge

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[heybruce]

19 minutes ago, Langsuan Man said:

 

Used to be great but since the Thai Consular Officer has basically abrogated his responsibilities to a local hire employee (Serbian by her own admission) they have instituted several policies that are theirs alone.

No other Thai Consular Officer in the US has suddenly required an FBI check for example. I had a run in with her about the correct number of copies required. The website showed 1 copy required but she insisted on two copies even after receiving a screenshot of the web page. I received my O-A visa the same day she complained about the number of copies submitted so even then there was a disconnect between her and the Consul
The web site was eventually changed so she would not have to make copies but by then she had moved on to other petty requirements

Lost track when I started getting my O-A visas from New York where a Thai National Foreign Service Officer is in charge

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Thaivisa Connect mobile app
 

Thanks for the info.  I will try the Washington embassy and hope for the best.  The embassy website says 800,000 baht in a Thai bank or proof of adequate income, the New York consulate says 800,000 baht and proof of adequate income.  I meet the income requirements and don't want to tie up my money in a Thai bank.

[SpokaneAl]

9 minutes ago, heybruce said:

Thanks for the info.  I will try the Washington embassy and hope for the best.  The embassy website says 800,000 baht in a Thai bank or proof of adequate income, the New York consulate says 800,000 baht and proof of adequate income.  I meet the income requirements and don't want to tie up my money in a Thai bank.

 You are misreading the information. It does not state that you must have money in a Thai bank. Here is what the website says:

 

6. Bank statement or evidence of adequate finance showing a deposit of the amount equal to and not less than 800,000 Baht or an income certificate (an original copy) with a monthly income of not less than 65,000 Baht, or a deposit account plus a monthly income totaling not less than 800,000 Baht In the case of submitting a bank statement, a letter of guarantee from the bank (an original copy) is required

[heybruce]

11 minutes ago, heybruce said:

Thanks for the info.  I will try the Washington embassy and hope for the best.  The embassy website says 800,000 baht in a Thai bank or proof of adequate income, the New York consulate says 800,000 baht and proof of adequate income.  I meet the income requirements and don't want to tie up my money in a Thai bank.

 

1 minute ago, SpokaneAl said:

 You are misreading the information. It does not state that you must have money in a Thai bank. Here is what the website says:

 

6. Bank statement or evidence of adequate finance showing a deposit of the amount equal to and not less than 800,000 Baht or an income certificate (an original copy) with a monthly income of not less than 65,000 Baht, or a deposit account plus a monthly income totaling not less than 800,000 Baht In the case of submitting a bank statement, a letter of guarantee from the bank (an original copy) is required

I assume that is from the Washington embassy website.  The New York consulate website has:

 

" 4. Proof of money deposit from a bank certifying the amount equal to or no less than US$23,000, and proof of income statement from a paying organization certifying no less than US$1,900 per month.  "   https://www.thaicgny.com/ภาษาอ-งกฤษ-english-version/visa-service/doc-non-im-oa/

[SpokaneAl]

I assume that is from the Washington embassy website.  The New York consulate website has:
 
" 4. Proof of money deposit from a bank certifying the amount equal to or no less than US$23,000, and proof of income statement from a paying organization certifying no less than US$1,900 per month.  "   https://www.thaicgny.com/ภาษาอ-งกฤษ-english-version/visa-service/doc-non-im-oa/

My quote was from the website of the Thai Embassy in Washington DC.

Assuming that one was applying for an initial non imm o-a multi entry visa, how would he/she even open an account in a Thai bank while in the US, let alone deposit the funds?


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[JackThompson]

5 minutes ago, SpokaneAl said:

My quote was from the website of the Thai Embassy in Washington DC.

Assuming that one was applying for an initial non imm o-a multi entry visa, how would he/she even open an account in a Thai bank while in the US, let alone deposit the funds?

 

 

 

When applying for any type of "Non-O based on retirement" from a consulate abroad, the applicant's bank-funds do not have to be in a Thai account. 

[Thaidream]

I have found when I lived in the US that any official consulate anywhere would accept my application for any type of Visa. In regards to the O-A; the notarization issue is solved by providing a cover letter- listing each attached document and having you signature notarized. The Notary applies their official stamp to your signature which actually verifies all the attached documentation is true and accurate.

IMHO the O-A Visa is a waste of time and money for anyone who is actually going to be based in Thailand and stay here. Coming in on any type of Visa and then going to Immigration to convert is the less costly and  eliminates all the extraneous documentation and notary issues.

The Houston Honorary Consulate Website indicates they issue Non O Multiples for those married to a Thai and also the METV  but have to go in person.  However, only the Official Embassy/Consulates will issue the O-A as mentioned.

[heybruce]

1 hour ago, SpokaneAl said:

 

 

My quote was from the website of the Thai Embassy in Washington DC.

Assuming that one was applying for an initial non imm o-a multi entry visa, how would he/she even open an account in a Thai bank while in the US, let alone deposit the funds?


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A literal reading is that $23,000 in a bank account, location unspecified, and proof of income is required.  However only the NY consulate requires both.  It seems every consulate and the embassy have different criteria for this and other visas.

[ubonjoe]

2 hours ago, heybruce said:

 

I assume that is from the Washington embassy website.  The New York consulate website has:

 

" 4. Proof of money deposit from a bank certifying the amount equal to or no less than US$23,000, and proof of income statement from a paying organization certifying no less than US$1,900 per month.  "   https://www.thaicgny.com/ภาษาอ-งกฤษ-english-version/visa-service/doc-non-im-oa/

I suspect that is a typo and should of been or. I suggest you contact them about it. They also failed to state a combination of the 2 totaling the equivalent of 800k baht can be used.

[Lee4Life]

17 hours ago, sqwakvfr said:

In terms of notarize a document this is false.  A Notary is actually certifying the person who is  signing the document.  I was a Notary in California for several years.  In the US a Notary is commissioned by the state and the commission is good for 4 years.  A Notary cannot certify any document as being authentic.  If you bring a completed document to any notary the best he can do is to attach a second page with his seal on it.  During the process of Notarizing the Notary verifies the identity of signer, obtains his thumb print, observes the signing and then  makes an entry into his Notary book along with the singer of the document.  If these steps are not followed then the entire process is invalid.  Therefore, one would have to hire a notary and bring him to the doctor's office, the police department, and the bank in order to comply with these requirement.  In my case I would have to bring the Notary to my pension board office (which is only 400 miles away) and have my retirement income document notarized in person.  If this is the case then I would give up on the notion of obtaining aThai retirement visa.  

 

Some doctor's offices have their receptionists become notaries, and banks always have notaries, usually tellers or account service reps, most of the time more than one. Many police departments also have some of their staff become notaries, notaries are not all that uncommon. In this case you would have to ask ahead whether or not they have notaries in their offices so that you could be sure you could have the document notarized.

 

The worst one for me, and probably for most people, is the doctor's certification form.

[gk10002000]

14 hours ago, JackThompson said:

 

When applying for any type of "Non-O based on retirement" from a consulate abroad, the applicant's bank-funds do not have to be in a Thai account. 

This is one of the subtle but possibly important differences between applying for the retirement while in the USA or later while over in and around Thailand.  Doing it while over in Thailand vs. in the USA has some other differences also.  One or two are possibly very attractive for some people

[fotowinter]

On 1/3/2017 at 9:46 PM, ubonjoe said:

Only the honorary consulates cannot issue multiple entry visas since August of last year. The official consulates in NY, LA and Chicago can still issue them if you qualify for one.

As far as I know a background check by the FBI is not the only one they will accept. From the embassy website. 

http://thaiembdc.org/consular-services/non-immigrant-visas/non-immigrant-category-o/

 

I've just been going through the process of applying for several TR Multiple or  METV for myself and my family, in Washington DC.  At no time have they said anything about not issuing METV.  Furthermore, when I have been to the Thai Embassy up Kalorama Road, it is busy, busy, busy, with all manner of people applying for visas'  That said, there are many Thai nationals, not sure what they have to do, but also plenty of Americans.  That said, this is line number 7 of required documents from the Thai Embassy DC website for Non-immigrant type O-A  "7.  Letter of verification stating that the applicant has no criminal record (verification have to valid for not more than three months and must be issued from a state or Federal Bureau of Investigation only. Online criminal record without authorizer’s signature is unacceptable )".  I had to get an FBI background check for employment in Washington, DC, it took about 6 weeks, and this was with an international organization applying on my behalf. If I were not in DC, I would do the background check at my local police station with lots of stamps, and embossed documents, and my fingerprints as well.

[heybruce]

On 1/8/2017 at 2:29 AM, Thaidream said:

I have found when I lived in the US that any official consulate anywhere would accept my application for any type of Visa. In regards to the O-A; the notarization issue is solved by providing a cover letter- listing each attached document and having you signature notarized. The Notary applies their official stamp to your signature which actually verifies all the attached documentation is true and accurate.

IMHO the O-A Visa is a waste of time and money for anyone who is actually going to be based in Thailand and stay here. Coming in on any type of Visa and then going to Immigration to convert is the less costly and  eliminates all the extraneous documentation and notary issues.

The Houston Honorary Consulate Website indicates they issue Non O Multiples for those married to a Thai and also the METV  but have to go in person.  However, only the Official Embassy/Consulates will issue the O-A as mentioned.

"I have found when I lived in the US that any official consulate anywhere would accept my application for any type of Visa."

 

Have you applied for a visa since all but three consulates stopped issuing multi-entry visas in August 2016?  If you are counting on the Houston consulate for a multiple entry visa, you will be disappointed.  Unless they change the rules again, which is entirely possible.

 

I don't know where this reasonable immigration office in Thailand that you use is, but the office in my city has a history denying visas on any pretext.

 

I've lived in Thailand for over ten years, visiting the US over Christmas to see family and renew my visa.  I occasionally encountered consulates that read too much into rules and asked for unnecessary documentations, but before I could simply switch to a different consulate.  Not anymore.  I've never encountered such a sh*tstorm of contradictory and unnecessary requirements.

 

I now have notarized cover letters for un-notarized documents.  I'll send that to the Chicago consulate and hope for the best.