Purchasing Condo -- Appreciate Advice

[zorro1]

The exact reason the Nana plaza is looking likely to be over very shortly. Allegedly the landlord wants to sell or lease the land for redevelopment. It must be worth absolutely millions in that area.

Very true its just a matter of time. There was a huge parcel of land directly opposite Nana bts that sat empty many years and was owned by bangkok bank and there is a condo being built there now.. Don't know the price per sqm but it's going to be some unbelievable amount

[Lovethailandelite]

15 minutes ago, zorro1 said:

Very true its just a matter of time. There was a huge parcel of land directly opposite Nana bts that sat empty many years and was owned by bangkok bank and there is a condo being built there now.. Don't know the price per sqm but it's going to be some unbelievable amount

The rental yields in that area, Nana, Asok, Chit Lom etc are very good. Its relatively easy to get between B60,000 and B80,000 a month for a half decent 2 bed unit. I only wish I saw this coming 30 years ago.

[ExpatOilWorker]

2 hours ago, lkn said:

 

Can someone give a practical example of a leasehold?

 

Do you pay the lease per month, so when you buy the condo itself, you are really only buying a share in the building, and thus your monthly expenses will be CAM fees + lease to the landowner?  If so, how much would this typically be?

 

And at the expiration of the 30 year lease, I assume there is a fairly good chance of getting a new 30 year lease, but it could be at a higher price, so your monthly expenses could go up. In the case of this building, where the first lease was negotiated 20 years ago, I assume the new lease will be based on the land’s current value, which is basically 20 years of appreciation.

 

 

You do own the unit, but the land is under a 30 years lease agreement with Crown Property. 

Apart from the common fee lease holders also pay 10 baht/month/m2 to Crown property, so it is in everybody's interest to keep the lease going as long as possible.

That said, there are no clear rules for an extension. Only the future will tell. 

[ExpatOilWorker]

57 minutes ago, lkn said:

 

I should have been more clear, I do know what a lease is and that Thailand limits them to 30 years.

 

What I was after was specific examples of pricing for a leasehold, as in, has the lease normally been paid upfront (for 30 years) as part of the initial purchase price, or is it paid monthly, and if paid monthly, what is a typical lease in downtown BKK (per sq. m.)?

 

Also interesting to know, for the leasehold condos built, is the landowner the government/city, or some private company? I would expect the former (as the landowner) would result in a greater chance of renewing the lease as a reasonable price, as failure to get a lease renewal by the government for a leasehold would send a terrible message to the leasehold market — but I expect that so far, no-one has actually been in the situation of having to renew the lease for the underlying land of the “condominium”, so no-one really knows what will happen.

 

Huge areas of central Bangkok around Ratchadamri is lease hold and some have expired over the years. Some got multiple 5-10 years extension, others like the Hotel that was located where Paragon is now got demolished.

 

BTS, yes the same group that operate the Skytrain, is the managing company for the previous mentioned building and a few others in the area.

[MANFROMBOCA]

16 hours ago, lkn said:

 

To clarify, the bank will not deposit the amount on your account before some form has been filled out and a copy of your passport has been added to their archive.

 

The bank should contact you, once the money has arrived, but if you hear nothing, contact the bank. Notifying them in advance probably makes little difference.

 

yes you are correct by notifying them in advance i meant you have to fill out an incoming wire notification,, but when i did notifymy bank they told me to come in and fill out the notification if incoming funds

[Lovethailandelite]

7 minutes ago, MANFROMBOCA said:

yes you are correct by notifying them in advance i meant you have to fill out an incoming wire notification,, but when i did notifymy bank they told me to come in and fill out the notification if incoming funds

Luckily we don't have the issue wiring money from UK Banks. Then again, you get things here we don't.

[lkn]

 

14 minutes ago, MANFROMBOCA said:

yes you are correct by notifying them in advance i meant you have to fill out an incoming wire notification,, but when i did notifymy bank they told me to come in and fill out the notification if incoming funds

 

For what it is worth, I once sent signed BOT (NO.6) form and copy of passport by email, and that was enough to satisfy their requirements (for incoming wire above $50k).

 

I had told them that I was not in Thailand, so would be unable to go to the bank.

[lkn]

8 minutes ago, Lovethailandelite said:

Luckily we don't have the issue wiring money from UK Banks. Then again, you get things here we don't.

 

If you transfer a high enough amount, the bank will have to do due diligence (anti money laundering regulation). I’ve had them call me a few times asking me questions about what I do, what the money are for, etc. and once they wanted me to send proof of how I had obtained the money.

[Lovethailandelite]

1 minute ago, lkn said:

 

If you transfer a high enough amount, the bank will have to do due diligence (anti money laundering regulation). I’ve had them call me a few times asking me questions about what I do, what the money are for, etc. and once they wanted me to send proof of how I had obtained the money.

The most I have sent in one hit was £100k and have sent batches of £25k and never had any issue. Maybe I was lucky I have no idea? Maybe because the UK bank is satisfied that the funds they are sending is clean money and somehow confirm this to the Thai receiving bank which would be the BOT as I am led to believe all international funds clear through them before being sent onwards to Kasikorn, Bangkok bank etc? 

[realenglish1]

3 hours ago, zorro1 said:

Not true. You don't need an agent to tell you that suitable development land is running out in bangkok.. Just go for a walk along Sukhumvit!
He is absolutely right that developers will be paying more and passing on the cost to the customer. This is the main reason condo prices in lower Sukhumvit have tripled in 15 years.

I paid 4.6m for a 74sqm condo 12 years ago a few minutes from asoke bts.. If I waited I would be priced out of the market

What you not taking into account is condos are having difficulty selling at this point List yours and see if you get any offers at market price

It will not happen Too many condos available and not enough buyers  Expect a market correction Its time is overdue and if you think otherwise your head is in the sand.

When rents go above demand the underlying structure will correct to meet market demands 

[Lovethailandelite]

9 minutes ago, realenglish1 said:

What you not taking into account is condos are having difficulty selling at this point List yours and see if you get any offers at market price

It will not happen Too many condos available and not enough buyers  Expect a market correction Its time is overdue and if you think otherwise your head is in the sand.

When rents go above demand the underlying structure will correct to meet market demands 

Partly I agree. There is an over supply of the 30sqm show boxes at sub B2mil. For largre quality built condos in good areas there is IMO, an under supply. Quality will always sell and at close to the asking price as those that already own this type of accommodation never appear to be in a rush to sell. How many new builds do you see now with units of 100sqm and over? The main option for this type of unit is too look at the resale market....But they aren't cheap.

 

 

[zorro1]

What you not taking into account is condos are having difficulty selling at this point List yours and see if you get any offers at market price
It will not happen Too many condos available and not enough buyers  Expect a market correction Its time is overdue and if you think otherwise your head is in the sand.
When rents go above demand the underlying structure will correct to meet market demands 

Yes for 20 years on TV every one repeating that mantra along with the implosion of the baht.

Waiting waiting waiting... And the prices continue to sky rocket and the baht rock solid.

Everyone also predicted the collapse of the real estate sector because of the civil war after the passing of the king.. Where are they now [emoji108]

Just because your fantasize it doesn't not mean it will happen!

[realenglish1]

28 minutes ago, Lovethailandelite said:

Partly I agree. There is an over supply of the 30sqm show boxes at sub B2mil. For largre quality built condos in good areas there is IMO, an under supply. Quality will always sell and at close to the asking price as those that already own this type of accommodation never appear to be in a rush to sell. How many new builds do you see now with units of 100sqm and over? The main option for this type of unit is too look at the resale market....But they aren't cheap.

 

 

Once the market dives all condos will be affected 

[realenglish1]

12 minutes ago, zorro1 said:

Yes for 20 years on TV every one repeating that mantra along with the implosion of the baht.

Waiting waiting waiting... And the prices continue to sky rocket and the baht rock solid.

Everyone also predicted the collapse of the real estate sector because of the civil war after the passing of the king.. Where are they now

Just because your fantasize it doesn't not mean it will happen!

Not a fantasy Tell me if there is any market that has not corrected  All markets have except Thailand Its due  from the USA to Europe To China and everywhere else Do you think the Thais  know something the rest of the world does not Its called overbuilding and now the banks are balking at making loans on condos And the baht is anything other than rock solid Its almost 36 to the dollar Look what is was some time last year

Weak  is the word here

 

ITs coming 

Edited January 11, 2017 by realenglish1

[ExpatOilWorker]

4 hours ago, zorro1 said:

Not true. You don't need an agent to tell you that suitable development land is running out in bangkok.. Just go for a walk along Sukhumvit!
He is absolutely right that developers will be paying more and passing on the cost to the customer. This is the main reason condo prices in lower Sukhumvit have tripled in 15 years.

I paid 4.6m for a 74sqm condo 12 years ago a few minutes from asoke bts.. If I waited I would be priced out of the market

 

Without being to optimistic, what is that 74 m2 unit worth today?

Is the building completed pre- pr post 1997? My feeling is that there is a distinct different price development between never and older buildings and there is a gab from 1997-2001 where hardly any buildings was build. 

[MANFROMBOCA]

3 hours ago, lkn said:

 

 

For what it is worth, I once sent signed BOT (NO.6) form and copy of passport by email, and that was enough to satisfy their requirements (for incoming wire above $50k).

 

I had told them that I was not in Thailand, so would be unable to go to the bank.

on future incoming i just email form no problem

[zorro1]

Not a fantasy Tell me if there is any market that has not corrected  All markets have except Thailand Its due  from the USA to Europe To China and everywhere else Do you think the Thais  know something the rest of the world does not Its called overbuilding and now the banks are balking at making loans on condos And the baht is anything other than rock solid Its almost 36 to the dollar Look what is was some time last year
Weak  is the word here
 
ITs coming 

Well we have what we have today and then we have crystal ball gazing.

Good luck with that. I have a close mate who is on your side of the fence who could have bought the same time I did but kept telling me the baht will implode and he thought real estate was to expensive in bangkok 16 years ago lol. 16 years of rent down the drain and has to pay triple pricing today.. He was another crystal ball gazer [emoji30]

[blackcab]

9 hours ago, KittenKong said:

In Thailand 30 years is the legal maximum for a lease and there is no valid or binding way of extending this, apart from negotiating an entirely new lease when the existing one expires.

 

For commercial and industrial use it's possible to get up to 50 years.

[blackcab]

9 hours ago, Lovethailandelite said:

The undeveloped land here is now very restricted on what can and cannot be built. Beach front land is now restricted to 3 stories so no more high rises close to the beach.

 

This is why developers buy sizeable plots that start at the beach and go all the way back to the public road.

 

If you put enough distance between the front of the building and the beach you can still build tall buildings.

 

You just have to get creative with what services you put between the beach and the building.

 

There is a lot of this type of land available. I'm currently dealing with a 16 rai plot in Ban Saray in this category.

[KittenKong]

1 hour ago, blackcab said:

 

For commercial and industrial use it's possible to get up to 50 years.

 

Fair enough. The original question was presumably for residential use. Personally I'm even less likely to want to lease commercial property here than I am to lease a condo, but it's always nice to know!

 

 

29 minutes ago, blackcab said:

There is a lot of this type of land available.

 

There certainly is. I dont have to drive two minutes from my central Jomtien condo to find loads of empty land.

[blackcab]

9 hours ago, lkn said:

...but I expect that so far, no-one has actually been in the situation of having to renew the lease for the underlying land of the “condominium”, so no-one really knows what will happen.

 

You're right to use the quotes. A building registered as a Condominium can only be built on unencumbered chanote land. You can't register a Condominium building on leased land.

 

In fact during the very first part of the Condominium registration at the Land Office you have to surrender the existing chanotes before the individual unit chanotes are created.

[Lovethailandelite]

13 hours ago, blackcab said:

 

This is why developers buy sizeable plots that start at the beach and go all the way back to the public road.

 

If you put enough distance between the front of the building and the beach you can still build tall buildings.

 

You just have to get creative with what services you put between the beach and the building.

 

There is a lot of this type of land available. I'm currently dealing with a 16 rai plot in Ban Saray in this category.

Yes I agree. I probably never worded my post how I should of. If your in this area take a look at the new Renaissance hotel going up at Ban Ampur. Its an example of how all future builds here should be. A tall building set back from the Sukumvit but over 50% of the build behind no higher than 3 storeys and the other 25% leading to the beach no higher than 2 storeys. Its a good design and nobody has there view or privacy affected. I have no idea what sector of the market they are looking at but Renaissance do not do cheap and looking whats going in there, I assume the do not intend to start 

[blackcab]

There are also developments like Oriental Beach that have houses at the front and a condo at the rear (from memory something like 12 floors).

 

There is a common area with right of way in the middle of the houses that provides an access path to the beach for the condo owners.

Edited January 12, 2017 by blackcab

[realenglish1]

19 hours ago, zorro1 said:

Well we have what we have today and then we have crystal ball gazing.

Good luck with that. I have a close mate who is on your side of the fence who could have bought the same time I did but kept telling me the baht will implode and he thought real estate was to expensive in bangkok 16 years ago lol. 16 years of rent down the drain and has to pay triple pricing today.. He was another crystal ball gazer

That is one person out of many antidotal  at best . So far this is the only market that has not imploded Main reason is builders set prices as they see fit not with market conditions . You buy a condo on paper and they raise the price many times before it is finished being built That is artificial my friend Keep convincing yourself that everyting is good Maybe the Condo Gods will hear you 

[zorro1]

That is one person out of many antidotal  at best . So far this is the only market that has not imploded Main reason is builders set prices as they see fit not with market conditions . You buy a condo on paper and they raise the price many times before it is finished being built That is artificial my friend Keep convincing yourself that everyting is good Maybe the Condo Gods will hear you 

Don't matter. Never for sale rent is phenomenal in asoke. I don't live in it.
Sounds like you are pissed because you missed the huge spike in the last 10 years.
Keep polishing that crystal ball and dreaming of a condo collapse..
Developer land is vanishing fast, if you ball could talk, that's what it will say haha

[realenglish1]

33 minutes ago, zorro1 said:

Don't matter. Never for sale rent is phenomenal in asoke. I don't live in it.
Sounds like you are pissed because you missed the huge spike in the last 10 years.
Keep polishing that crystal ball and dreaming of a condo collapse..
Developer land is vanishing fast, if you ball could talk, that's what it will say haha

Actually there is a lot of land in an around Bangkok for Developers  Asoke is too dense with Condos Traffic a pain  I would not own a condo if you gave it to me here

Mark My words Its coming 

[zorro1]

Actually there is a lot of land in an around Bangkok for Developers  Asoke is too dense with Condos Traffic a pain  I would not own a condo if you gave it to me here
Mark My words Its coming 

Your A bear in a bull market. No good crying about it NOW, you shouldn't have fallen for the TV propaganda. Never ever believe what you read here!! Good luck trying to buy a condo in any desirable area assuming you are not posting from a 4k room in Pattaya

Condo prices continue to soar and you are.. Well... Just sore [emoji30]

[realenglish1]

16 minutes ago, zorro1 said:

Your A bear in a bull market. No good crying about it NOW, you shouldn't have fallen for the TV propaganda. Never ever believe what you read here!! Good luck trying to buy a condo in any desirable area assuming you are not posting from a 4k room in Pattaya

Condo prices continue to soar and you are.. Well... Just sore

Prices have continued to soar based on What certainly not demand Banks are being very restrictive about Real Estate loans now   Prices have risen unabated since 2000 and there is no such thing as a market just going up with no correction Its just not realistic . A correction is coming and you will feel  it

You know nothing about real estate  When the supply outstips demand  there is a problem The reason they are not building more luxury condos is there is little demand for them .

Who is going to buy them Thais are in financial straights right now Borrowed too much If the banks won't lend and people want to sell You have a serious problem

Sit in your Ivory tower but the correction is coming . There is a thing in real estate called over bought . Now look at your condo and see who has sold in the last 6 months or so

Probably not too many at the high end NO MONEY

2017 is going to be very very difficult 

[lkn]

44 minutes ago, realenglish1 said:

The reason they are not building more luxury condos is there is little demand for them.

 

Luxury buildings? I think there is some confusion between actual upscale buildings and budget buildings with a veneer :)

 

[funandsuninbangkok]

On 1/11/2017 at 4:14 AM, zorro1 said:

Well we have what we have today and then we have crystal ball gazing.

Good luck with that. I have a close mate who is on your side of the fence who could have bought the same time I did but kept telling me the baht will implode and he thought real estate was to expensive in bangkok 16 years ago lol. 16 years of rent down the drain and has to pay triple pricing today.. He was another crystal ball gazer

 

Well actually if he invested in many other things like equities, bonds, Reits, gold, etc he would have done just fine. 

 

In the mean time rents in Bangkok are the same as the were 10 years ago.  I know as I invested in US high tech in 2001 and have  happily rented here.