Taiwan scrambles jets, navy as China aircraft carrier enters Taiwan Strait

[webfact]

Taiwan scrambles jets, navy as China aircraft carrier enters Taiwan Strait

REUTERS

 

China's Liaoning aircraft carrier with accompanying fleet conducts a drill in an area of South China Sea, in this undated photo taken December, 2016. REUTERS/Stringer

 

TAIPEI (Reuters) - Taiwan scrambled jets and navy ships on Wednesday as a group of Chinese warships led by China's sole aircraft carrier sailed north through the Taiwan Strait, the latest sign of heightened tensions between Beijing and the self-ruled Taiwan.

 

The Soviet-built Liaoning aircraft carrier, returning from exercises in the South China Sea, was not trespassing in Taiwan's territorial waters but entered its air defence identification zone (ADIZ) in the southwest, Taiwan's defence ministry said.

 

As a result Taiwan scrambled jets and navy ships to "surveil and control" the passage of the Chinese ships through the narrow body of water separating Taiwan and China.

 

"We have full grasp of its movements," Taiwan defence ministry spokesman Chen Chung-chi said.

 

Taiwanese military aircraft and ships have been deployed to follow the carrier group, which is sailing up the west side of the median line of the strait. he said.

 

China has said the Liaoning aircraft carrier was on drills to test weapons and equipment in the disputed South China Sea and its movements comply with international law.

 

The latest Chinese naval exercises have unnerved Beijing's neighbours, especially Taiwan which Beijing claims as its own, given long-running territorial disputes in the South China Sea.

 

China claims most of the energy-rich waters of the South China Sea, through which about $5 trillion in ship-borne trade passes every year. Neighbours Brunei, Malaysia, the Philippines, Taiwan and Vietnam also have claims.

 

China distrusts Taiwan President Tsai Ing-wen and has stepped up pressure on her following a protocol-breaking, congratulatory telephone call between her and U.S. President-elect Donald Trump last month.

 

Beijing suspects Tsai wants to push for the island's formal independence, a red line for the mainland, which has never renounced the use of force to bring what it deems a renegade province under its control.

 

Tsai says she wants to maintain peace with China.

 

(Reporting by J.R. Wu; Editing by Michael Perry)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2017-01-11

[NanLaew]

46 minutes ago, webfact said:

... China claims most of the energy-rich waters of the South China Sea, ...

 

There's no oil and gas in the middle of the South China Sea. It's a pure territorial grab by the Chinese.

 

I guess this Chinese carrier groups sail plan was hastily drawn up after the Taiwan president stopped over in Houston, meeting with Senior State Republicans while in transit to Central America for meetings.

[tonbridgebrit]

Republic of China, get real. The Peoples' Republic of China is not interested in harming you.

If Beijing actually wanted to harm you, they would reduce the flood of Chinese tourists turning up in your place. Also, they would slap some tax onto your goods entering China. This would cripple your economy.

Actually, Taiwan, you're allowed to export your stuff to China, with minimal taxes. But European, American and Japanese goods are taxed highly when entering China. I reckon that's unfair. I reckon we should have a level playing field. How about Beijing puts taxes on the Taiwanese goods being exported to China. I mean, if British goods are taxed when entering China, why not Taiwanese goods ?

A level playing field, and not one that is rigged by Chinese people.

[impulse]

7 minutes ago, tonbridgebrit said:

How about Beijing puts taxes on the Taiwanese goods being exported to China. I mean, if British goods are taxed when entering China, why not Taiwanese goods ?

 

You don't figure that would fly in the face of their "One China" thing?  If Taiwan is "an indisputable part of China", how would they spin that one?

 

That would be like Oklahoma imposing a duty on stuff from Texas.  In more than one way, since some Texans occasionally make noises about seceding.

[Familyaffairs]

China's multifaced worm-on-a-hook wriggling.......

 

 they don't accept the outcome of an Int'l Maritime tribunal, but state this in defense of sailing near Taiwan:

 

 China has said the Liaoning aircraft carrier was on drills to test weapons and equipment in the disputed South China Sea and its movements comply with international law

[ilostmypassword]

2 hours ago, tonbridgebrit said:

Republic of China, get real. The Peoples' Republic of China is not interested in harming you.

If Beijing actually wanted to harm you, they would reduce the flood of Chinese tourists turning up in your place. Also, they would slap some tax onto your goods entering China. This would cripple your economy.

Actually, Taiwan, you're allowed to export your stuff to China, with minimal taxes. But European, American and Japanese goods are taxed highly when entering China. I reckon that's unfair. I reckon we should have a level playing field. How about Beijing puts taxes on the Taiwanese goods being exported to China. I mean, if British goods are taxed when entering China, why not Taiwanese goods ?

A level playing field, and not one that is rigged by Chinese people.

In other words it's Taiwan's fault that China is unfairly imposing tariffs on goods from other countries? And the problem will be solved if China imposes tariffs on Taiwan?

[ilostmypassword]

2 hours ago, NanLaew said:

 

There's no oil and gas in the middle of the South China Sea. It's a pure territorial grab by the Chinese.

 

I guess this Chinese carrier groups sail plan was hastily drawn up after the Taiwan president stopped over in Houston, meeting with Senior State Republicans while in transit to Central America for meetings.

Well, since the article didn't mention the middle of the South China Sea, I don't understand why you do. That said, if you mean that the South China Sea has no oil and gas, you're going to be on the opposite side of opinion from the geological community's consensus.

https://www.eia.gov/beta/international/regions-topics.cfm?RegionTopicID=SCS

http://www.wsj.com/articles/south-china-sea-tensions-leave-oil-potential-untapped-1468387010

http://www.forbes.com/sites/timdaiss/2016/05/22/why-the-south-china-sea-has-more-oil-than-you-think/

[elgordo38]

5 hours ago, webfact said:

South China Sea and its movements comply with international law.

Really international law?? What about the takeover of the Spratly Island and fortifying them. The international toothless law body said this was illegal and China just thumbed their nose. They only quote international law when it suits them. Maybe its time international law got some stones and declared Taiwan a free and open country not under China's so called outdated "One China Policy" Taiwan need only look at Hong Kong to see how the Chinese keep their hands off policy. 

[tonbridgebrit]

4 hours ago, impulse said:

 

You don't figure that would fly in the face of their "One China" thing?  If Taiwan is "an indisputable part of China", how would they spin that one?

 

That would be like Oklahoma imposing a duty on stuff from Texas.  In more than one way, since some Texans occasionally make noises about seceding.

Well, yes, it's Beijing that reckons that Taiwan is part of China, that's why Beijing allows Taiwan to export it's goods to China, with minimal taxes slapped on the goods.

Now then, how about Taiwan declares that it is part of the Peoples' Republic of China, and Taiwan continues to export to China, with minimal taxes. Or, Taiwan declares that it is not part of the Peoples' Republic of China, that it intends to go on a path that will eventually lead to independance, and this means Taiwan will (immediately) no longer be allowed to export to China with minimal taxes.

How about Taiwan makes one of these two declarations ?

 

[impulse]

1 minute ago, tonbridgebrit said:

Well, yes, it's Beijing that reckons that Taiwan is part of China, that's why Beijing allows Taiwan to export it's goods to China, with minimal taxes slapped on the goods.

Now then, how about Taiwan declares that it is part of the Peoples' Republic of China, and Taiwan continues to export to China, with minimal taxes. Or, Taiwan declares that it is not part of the Peoples' Republic of China, that it intends to go on a path that will eventually lead to independance, and this means Taiwan will (immediately) no longer be allowed to export to China with minimal taxes.

How about Taiwan makes one of these two declarations ?

 

If Taiwan were to make such a formal declaration, their duty rate on exports to the PRC would be real low on their list of concerns.

[tonbridgebrit]

2 hours ago, ilostmypassword said:

In other words it's Taiwan's fault that China is unfairly imposing tariffs on goods from other countries? And the problem will be solved if China imposes tariffs on Taiwan?

I'm trying to say, that Taiwan is getting a huge benefit from Beijing, by being allowed to export to China with minimal taxes. At the same time, there's people in Taiwan who want to anger Beijing by talking about an eventual declaration of independance.

If Taiwan carries on hinting and implying moves for independance, well, they should realise that such actions will probably cause Beijing to remove this huge benefit. For myself, I'ill have a smirk on my face if this benefit is removed, which will cripple Taiwan's economy.
China should be allowed to impose taxes on all goods from all countries if Beijing wants to. Consistency demands taxes on Taiwanese goods, IF Taiwan really does reckon it's not part of the Peoples' Republic of China.

 

[tonbridgebrit]

7 minutes ago, impulse said:

 

If Taiwan were to make such a formal declaration, their duty rate on exports to the PRC would be real low on their list of concerns.

Well, you're right. Taiwan will be more scared about having a load of missiles being fired from China.

But still, I think a lot of people outside of the Far East don't realise how important China is to Taiwan. People don't realise that Chinese tourists are flooding into Taiwan, and Taiwan's biggest export market is China. Taiwan's shops are stacked with goods from China as well.
 

Them Chinese people, they're always thinking about money. Peoples' Republic of China, and Republic of China, them Chinese are all the same, they've all got the same mentality. 

 

[Andaman Al]

It is amazing what can be kicked off by a telephone call and then sending a couple of your future administration over for a chat with the Taiwanese President. This is why it is absolutely clear that Trump has no political awareness or responsibility. Maybe he just knows that just as George W Bush needed his war then he needs one as well and Asia is so much bigger than the Middle East. Think what the military Industrial complex could make with a war out in this region.

[mercman24]

stick a limpet mine on it that should fk up their airforce, seems they only have 1 carrier, lol

 

[gchurch259]

2 hours ago, tonbridgebrit said:

I'm trying to say, that Taiwan is getting a huge benefit from Beijing, by being allowed to export to China with minimal taxes. At the same time, there's people in Taiwan who want to anger Beijing by talking about an eventual declaration of independance.

If Taiwan carries on hinting and implying moves for independance, well, they should realise that such actions will probably cause Beijing to remove this huge benefit. For myself, I'ill have a smirk on my face if this benefit is removed, which will cripple Taiwan's economy.
China should be allowed to impose taxes on all goods from all countries if Beijing wants to. Consistency demands taxes on Taiwanese goods, IF Taiwan really does reckon it's not part of the Peoples' Republic of China.

 

 

Well, do you know what percent of Taiwan's GDP is based on exports to Mainland China ?

 

I have read about the "Ole Common Law" theory of seven years adverse possession allows ownership to transfer, so maybe Taiwan is already Independent, you know since 1950 when Chiang Kai-Shek moved the KMT to Formosa (Taiwan).

 

Actually, China took the island by invasion to start with. Before that there were and are Aboriginals, then Portuguese and Dutch invaders too !!

 

I love the people and culture of Taiwan an believe they should be independent if they want to be !!

Edited January 11, 2017 by gchurch259

[elgordo38]

3 hours ago, tonbridgebrit said:

on a path that will eventually lead to independance, and this means Taiwan will (immediately) no longer be allowed to export to China with minimal taxes.

Path to independence will never happen. Why shouldn't Taiwan have it both ways? China's "Silk Road Project" is engulfing all the financially distressed countries and there are lots of em. China rather reminds me of all the loan sharks operating here in Thailand. 

[Srikcir]

13 hours ago, webfact said:

The Soviet-built Liaoning aircraft carrier, returning from exercises in the South China Sea, was not trespassing in Taiwan's territorial waters

Perfectly in compliance with international freedom of navigation.

Compare the 110mi distance between Taiwan and Mainland China to the 21mi Strait of Hormuz where the international navigation lane is only 4 mi wide. Or compare to the 90mi distance between the USA and Cuba.

[NanLaew]

16 hours ago, ilostmypassword said:

Well, since the article didn't mention the middle of the South China Sea, I don't understand why you do. That said, if you mean that the South China Sea has no oil and gas, you're going to be on the opposite side of opinion from the geological community's consensus.

https://www.eia.gov/beta/international/regions-topics.cfm?RegionTopicID=SCS

http://www.wsj.com/articles/south-china-sea-tensions-leave-oil-potential-untapped-1468387010

http://www.forbes.com/sites/timdaiss/2016/05/22/why-the-south-china-sea-has-more-oil-than-you-think/

 

Vietnam, Philippines, Indonesia and Malaysia all have producing oil and gas fields that are on the extreme periphery of the South China Sea and mostly well inside their individual Exclusive Economic Zones (EEZ). However, these are also handily inside the Chinese "11 dash line" territorial claim to the South China Sea. The Vietnamese, Malaysian and Indonesians have been very active explorers and producers with several fields on tap whereas the Philippines has long been a minor player with only a couple of small producing fields. Note how the Chinese claim sweeps a lot closer to the Philippines natural coastline than it does any of the other neighboring countries. 

 

Due to the nature of sub-surface oil and gas producing systems where hydrocarbons are found in various geological 'basins' on its periphery, the middle of the South China Sea where coincidentally the Chinese have been constructing their very visible man-made islands, is indeed bereft of oil and gas.

 

Thanks for the links. I read them and can see where some not involved with oil and gas exploration may see the South China Sea as a huge reservoir of untapped energy; the biggest estimates do come from the Chinese themselves who have done virtually no exploratory work in the region. However, none of the articles quoted are from the 'geological community' and the Forbes article could well have been penned by a Chinaman it is so full of speculative nonsense.

Edited January 12, 2017 by NanLaew

[NanLaew]

6 hours ago, Srikcir said:

Perfectly in compliance with international freedom of navigation.

 

As are the monthly passages by US navy warships through the South China Sea. These very publicly named 'freedom of navigation' excursions are the same ones the Chinese get all upset about. Although the Indians had a carrier fleet and the Japanese had a helicopter assault fleet participating in joint  naval exercises in Indonesian waters, the Chinese never said a word when these vessels separately conducted drills and exercises while in transit back home after the exercises were concluded... but they did shepherd a US frigate on a FoN cruise to Okinawa.

[stevenl]

Republic of China, get real. The Peoples' Republic of China is not interested in harming you.

If Beijing actually wanted to harm you, they would reduce the flood of Chinese tourists turning up in your place. Also, they would slap some tax onto your goods entering China. This would cripple your economy.

Actually, Taiwan, you're allowed to export your stuff to China, with minimal taxes. But European, American and Japanese goods are taxed highly when entering China. I reckon that's unfair. I reckon we should have a level playing field. How about Beijing puts taxes on the Taiwanese goods being exported to China. I mean, if British goods are taxed when entering China, why not Taiwanese goods ?

A level playing field, and not one that is rigged by Chinese people.

Because Taiwan is part of China.

Sent from my ROBBY using Thaivisa Connect mobile app

[Caps]

4 minutes ago, stevenl said:

Because Taiwan is part of China.

Sent from my ROBBY using Thaivisa Connect mobile app
 

 

I thought that Taiwan had been independent since the 50's and it is only China that sees it as a rouge state that needs to be ruled by China 

[stevenl]

1 hour ago, Caps said:

 

I thought that Taiwan had been independent since the 50's and it is only China that sees it as a rouge state that needs to be ruled by China 

Yes, where was something different stated? My reaction was to the poster who claimed that China should raise import taxes on Taiwan. Which of course can not be done since according to China Taiwan is just another province.