Intellectual Whore

[LivinLOS]

8 minutes ago, SoiBiker said:

 

Care to tell me why I'm wrong in using it?

 

 

Quote

 

rac·ism

ˈrāˌsizəm/

noun

1. prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior.

 

1.  

 

 

You presumably meaning Misogyny or Male Chauvinism 

Edited January 16, 2017 by LivinLOS

[LivinLOS]

Just now, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

There are a lot of seemingly hard-core anti-female posters here

 

And the OP and subsequent replies havent been anti-male ?? Anti western male asian female pairings, etc ?? 

 

If dishing it, dont complain when served it.. 

[WinnieTheKhwai]

14 minutes ago, cmsally said:

Still not sure if we have worked out the OP's dilemma, but sure beats discussing burgers, pizza and the latest discounts at HomePro.

 

Sure does.  Haven't completely worked it out either, but it did make me think about the topic a bit more.

 

OP eventually ended up with the enlightened view that there are two groups of men, those who are nasty to her, and those who want to have an affair with her because their Thai wives are inferior to her intellectually.   And there is a cross section.  And there is nothing else, apparently. :)

 

So from that I get the feeling that the OP hasn't gotten too much insight yet from this discussion because her Venn diagram doesn't appear to offer a circle for me. 

 

If I think about the Western women I know in Chiang Mai then there aren't actually all that many, but some of the ones I do know are among the coolest people on Earth and that includes a couple who would most certainly call themselves feminists. They also have a true love and understanding for Thailand and have been here very long term.   (I'm not interested in Expat Groups,  Digital Nomads, Missionaries, etc, so I'm very unlikely to meet anyone there, and those tend to be groups with a lot of Western women in them.)

 

When I do chat with a Western woman who I meet for the first time then it's pretty much guaranteed to be in a bar setting of the Loy Kroh (and nearby) variety. That's already cool that they ventured into a bar, and I would definitely just say 'hello', also to make sure they know they're very welcome, plus their presence in a bar will attract more female/mixed customers, which is good for the bar and the general atmosphere.

 

The same by the way applies to Chinese women, African women, or Thai women who look like they're a bit out of place in a bar, or basically any human who isn't and older Farang guy.

 

I don't have any past history with relationships with Western women so I also wouldn't know or understand any negativity that some men persist in projecting; i know some do it and it seems to make no sense unless they are total sexists and racists which is probably not far off the mark, but I don't know, because I don't have that experience.

 

It also wouldn't even occur to me to get contact info and try for some follow up meeting.. and for 'intellectual gratification'.. Seriously? Just no. I could see connecting on Facebook but i'm not really interested in any meaningful relationship and especially not behind my wife's back, nor would that be necessary.   In fact when I do end up in a social encounter that involves a Western woman in a non-bar setting then chances are my wife arranged it.

 

[SoiBiker]

4 minutes ago, LivinLOS said:

 

rac·ism

ˈrāˌsizəm/

noun

1. prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior.

   "a program to combat racism"

 

 

Your presumably meaning Misogyny or Male Chauvinism 

 

Interesting that you chose to ignore the second part of the Oxford Dictionary definition - 

 

Quote

 The belief that all members of each race possess characteristics, abilities, or qualities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races

 

- which fits the kind of disparaging comments being made here about white women rather well. 

[LivinLOS]

Just now, SoiBiker said:

 

Interesting that you chose to ignore the second part of the Oxford Dictionary definition - 

 

 

- which fits the kind of disparaging comments being made here about white women rather well. 

 

 

Women are not a race.. Its misogyny.. 

 

 

Quote

 

mi·sog·y·ny

məˈsäjənē/

noun

 

1. dislike of, contempt for, or ingrained prejudice against women.

   "she felt she was struggling against thinly disguised misogyny"

 

1.  

[SoiBiker]

White is, though.

[fruitman]

On 13-1-2017 at 9:13 PM, Simbaya said:

 I feel I'm being asked to be their "intellectual whore."

 

Did they also offer you money to talk to them? Nope? So why do you use the word whore?

[WinnieTheKhwai]

7 minutes ago, LivinLOS said:

 

 

9 minutes ago, SoiBiker said:

- which fits the kind of disparaging comments being made here about white women rather well. 

 

Women are not a race.. Its misogyny.. 

 

Hello, pay attention: white women would arguably be a race, or half of one anyway.

 

However I still agree more with LivinLOS than SoiBiker because any criticism would be more related to culture than race or genetics: I bet you could take a white female baby and have her raised in Thailand and she'd end up just fine.

 

[Yes I'm laughing almost out loud just writing that.  Carry on. :) ]

 

 

Edited January 16, 2017 by WinnieTheKhwai

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

13 minutes ago, LivinLOS said:

 

And the OP and subsequent replies havent been anti-male ?? Anti western male asian female pairings, etc ??

 

 

I'm a western male, and I have a Thai wife, and I haven't perceived the OP and subsequent replies as anti-male or anti mixed-relationships. And some of the women posting have explicitly said they don't have anything against mixed relationships here.

 

[SoiBiker]

2 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

I'm a western male, and I have a Thai wife, and I haven't perceived the OP and subsequent replies as anti-male or anti mixed-relationships. And some of the women posting have explicitly said they don't have anything against mixed relationships here.

 

 

None of the western women I know here are against mixed relationships. Some of them are in one themselves. 

[14Stevie]

23 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

If there's going to be any value here (not that everyone participating expects any value to result), it's going to be because men and women here can somehow manage to talk WITH each other vs. talking AT or DOWN to others.

 

There are a lot of seemingly hard-core anti-female posters here, illustrating one of the points made by the OP.  But as yet, not ONE of them has managed to answer or respond to my call for all of us to treat and judge each other as individuals, and stop trying to unfairly paint people and segments with the broad brush of their own personal history.

 

 

"Simbaya, I'm glad you've worked this out in your mind. As I said earlier I can't match you TV name with you so I didn't know if you are one of those foreign women who are bothered with Thai/Western pairs. You say not so OK.

It finally dawned on you that some men are cads no matter where they live. As I mentioned, I know some women who retired here with their husbands, only to have the husband "run off" with a young Thai woman during the first year.

They may blame Thai women, but in truth the marriage had problems before they got here. It wasn't the first time the husband strayed."
 

Notwithstanding any of the generalisations in the OP original post the above is just a taste of what has been said against the male side of the argument yet the bold type in your own post seems to be aimed solely against the male side of things (Anti-female posters....one of them).

 

Don't get me wrong - I'm all for parity - but your post appears so biased towards a particular male element that you are seen to be solely on the female side.

 

There are two sides to every argument and generalisations either way DO NOT help.

 

If you want value aim your comments squarely at both sides of the divide otherwise you leave any perceived bias open to all.

 

I repeat - I want parity with an equal, fair discussion and respect to both sides.

[LivinLOS]

Just now, SoiBiker said:

 

None of the western women I know here are against mixed relationships. Some of them are in one themselves. 

 

 

Reread the posts.. Men are unfulfilled and want her to be thier mind whore.. have bad sex lives with asian wives (really.. I cant quite work that one out)..
 

Quote

farang men don't come here for the weather, the food or the laid-back lifestyle, they arrive looking for their lost youth as regards their long-since faded attraction for the opposite sex. The sight of an intelligent farang woman is like a red rag to a bull, revealing misogynism second only to that of the USA's appalling president elect! 

Quote

sad old guys who simply can't accept intelligent women as worth even talking to. 

 

Quote

 

What I did NOT know ...men here hate Western women.  Thai women run the show.  Thai women do not allow friendships with other women.  I have more money than most Western men here and what money you do have gets sucked away to your Thai ladies and their family so you cannot afford to do anything with me.  I seem not to have much in common with 80% of the kind of men who chose Thailand as a place to live ..those were not the kind of male friends I had in the past.

 

You men have nothing in common with Thai women and neither do I  ...so why would you expect that.  In fact you have more than I do, simply because you are having sex with them and children and family maybe and I am not.

 

Quote

Many of you seem to project your own feelings and thoughts on to us. Some of you didn't have much money and status in your old life and you couldn't get lovely young women, so you were jealous of men who could.  Now you come here and feel for the first time, that you have money and status ...but this is still SE Asia.  You play the game in front of each other but try to exclude us because we know the truth? We know it anyway,

Quote

There are surely some among you who don't feel this way and would like our company, but you have your pack mentality and that wins out.  I believe there are some men who would like to date some Western women but would find if difficult due to this also, and if you really haven't given up on Thai relationships yet, maybe a Western woman will not date you.

 

 

And all of this started from the basic premise that someone coming up and starting a conversation equally hates her and yet wants her to be his intellectual whore.. 

 

And you dont see any dishing out.. 

 

[SoiBiker]

I was referring to the women I know. As far as I know, the OP is not one of them. 

[NancyL]

5 hours ago, Gonzo the Face said:

WOW ! ! !  I have to marvel at this thread.   A topic of wanted or unwanted conversation.   Nearly  300 posts in less than 3 days ! ! !   One may be forgiven for thinking that so many are shunning live conversation.   OP how did you ever find anyone out there able to speak to you ?  Like going back to olden times , people using sign language , speaking with their fingers  instead of verbal.  Com'on posters with a little effort you should be able to catch up with the " RAIN " thread post count, in no time at all.

Love the vote of confidence, Gonzo.  So, what's your opinion?  Does your missus get upset if you engage in a little banter with an old white broiler?  

[LivinLOS]

2 minutes ago, SoiBiker said:

I was referring to the women I know. As far as I know, the OP is not one of them. 

 

I assumed you meant the posters.. One described a marriage to a younger asian wife as worse than death.. Nice.. 

[cyberfarang]

56 minutes ago, cmsally said:

 

OK "smarty pants" how did you work that one out?

 

Still not sure if we have worked out the OP's dilemma, but sure beats discussing burgers, pizza and the latest discounts at HomePro.

It has even dragged me out of the "Ladies" section. That is the section where you guys don't have access! Sorry couldn't resist that one .!

But here`s the main thing, I am truly intrigued to learn that western women are facing dilemmas in Thailand and the worse of it is, I think the western male expats here, including me, are failing to understand what are their dilemmas and instead this turns into a battle of the sexes. 

 

For me personally and I bet for the majority of male posters would like these women to cut to the chase and describe exactly what they expect from the expat community in Thailand? Because these women are not coming across loud and clear. I can understand that older western women can end up as becoming invisible, feeling neglected and unnoticed and maybe believing that their male counterparts only want to know them for all the wrong reasons. 

 

So what`s exactly going down here? Because I`m darned if I know.

 

 

[SoiBiker]

Just now, LivinLOS said:

 

I assumed you meant the posters.. One described a marriage to a younger asian wife as worse than death.. Nice.. 

 

You should hear some of the stuff people say on here about being married to a white woman. 

[NancyL]

5 hours ago, cyberfarang said:

Thailand is a male dominated country, always has been always will. I would guess the most Farlang expats in the country are middle and old aged men. Even on TV most of the posters are males that becomes obvious when reading the posts.

 

I also guess that western women expats are a very small minority here and for the over 50s women trying to get themselves established and into a social circle must be difficult and they face tough competition from the non feministic beautiful Thai ladies that don`t think too much and although consider themselves equal to men, rightly or wrongly believe that men and women have their separate roles to play in society, it`s how they have brought up and part of their culture. This for western women maybe difficult for them to comprehend having been brought up in a society of women`s lib and when they come here it can hit them hard that they do not have the same status as women they enjoyed in the west and seem resentful of this fact. This can often lead to these women ending up friendless and isolated because they can`t contend with the attitudes towards women in the Thai society it becomes a culture shock for them.

 

It seems that male expats are much better at adapting into Thai society then their female counterparts and maybe why it`s a majority of males that settle into the country.

 

Wow, you're being led around by the nose with blinders on.  This is NOT a male-dominated country, not by any stretch of the imagination.  Yeah, I'll give you that most TV posters are male, but that not representative of Thai society.  Look at who runs the families and most small businesses.  Look who is sent out from the family to send home money.  And in western/Thai relationships, it's usually the women who really exerts the power, esp. if the man has never bothered to become fluent in the Thai language.

 

Just look at what happens at the bank, immigration, gov't offices, hospitals when a mixed couple comes in.  The staff speaks to the Thai woman.  In many cases, the staff is fully capable of speaking English, but are more comfortable speaking Thai and what is translated to the man is "sign here", "take this pill", "we go here".  Not good.  As my old man used to say, "if they want my money, they can damn well speak my language."  

[LivinLOS]

1 minute ago, cyberfarang said:

But here`s the main thing, I am truly intrigued to learn that western women are facing dilemmas in Thailand and the worse of it is, I think the western male expats here, including me, are failing to understand what are their dilemmas and instead this turns into a battle of the sexes. 

 

For me personally and I bet for the majority of male posters would like these women to cut to the chase and describe exactly what they expect from the expat community in Thailand? Because these women are not coming across loud and clear. I can understand that older western women can end up as becoming invisible, feeling neglected and unnoticed and maybe believing that their male counterparts only want to know them for all the wrong reasons. 

 

I would wish them all the success possible.. 

 

But you have to recognize certain things.. There are real social issues which will prevent them (single older western females) having a decent social life outside of perhaps a very small amount of other western females, if they refuse to learn Thai. 

 

That lack of opportunity isnt someones fault, its the reality of the country they have chosen to live in. If I was in that position I would be bailing on the place in short order, because I ensure an environment which maximised my own happiness. 

[LivinLOS]

Just now, NancyL said:

 

Wow, you're being led around by the nose with blinders on.  This is NOT a male-dominated country, not by any stretch of the imagination.  Yeah, I'll give you that most TV posters are male, but that not representative of Thai society.  Look at who runs the families and most small businesses.  Look who is sent out from the family to send home money.  And in western/Thai relationships, it's usually the women who really exerts the power, esp. if the man has never bothered to become fluent in the Thai language.

 

Just look at what happens at the bank, immigration, gov't offices, hospitals when a mixed couple comes in.  The staff speaks to the Thai woman.  In many cases, the staff is fully capable of speaking English, but are more comfortable speaking Thai and what is translated to the man is "sign here", "take this pill", "we go here".  Not good.  As my old man used to say, "if they want my money, they can damn well speak my language."  

 

I agree in Thai relationships women run the household and finances.. Many times because the males blow it on giks and booze (at least thats how its been in the families of the women I have known / married / etc).. 

 

While I guess the couples you describe exist, I dont know any guys who cant function themselves, I personally dont take the wife when I want to get something done as people refuse to engage with the foreigner if they can help it, so not involving her in that kind of thing means I can force the engagement. In my circle I dont know many but I guess the more doormat type of guy who gets wandered about exists. 

[WinnieTheKhwai]

23 minutes ago, NancyL said:

 

Wow, you're being led around by the nose with blinders on.  This is NOT a male-dominated country, not by any stretch of the imagination.  Yeah, I'll give you that most TV posters are male, but that not representative of Thai society.  Look at who runs the families and most small businesses.  Look who is sent out from the family to send home money.  And in western/Thai relationships, it's usually the women who really exerts the power, esp. if the man has never bothered to become fluent in the Thai language.

 

Just look at what happens at the bank, immigration, gov't offices, hospitals when a mixed couple comes in.  The staff speaks to the Thai woman.  In many cases, the staff is fully capable of speaking English, but are more comfortable speaking Thai and what is translated to the man is "sign here", "take this pill", "we go here".  Not good.  As my old man used to say, "if they want my money, they can damn well speak my language."  

 

I like your post and agree with most of it, but why 'Not good.' ?  I think it makes sense for Thai staff in a Thai company or office to be speaking Thai when possible. It also makes it a lot more likely that there are no misunderstandings, plus if there are any shortcuts or workarounds then they're a LOT more likely to offer those in Thai than when speaking a foreign language in their own country.

 

If for example a mortgage contract has to be negotiated or some stuff needs taken care of at Immigration, the land department, tax office or getting a Wing41 pass outside of the normal application period then it's really much better for everyone to let the Mrs. get to work, as she's objectively very good at it.  (With bank staff volunteering how to circumvent her own bank's rules for example, and with government of course every rule can be broken or bypassed at any time when pressing the right buttons).   Somehow I don't think that would be happening when it was conducted in English.  Meanwhile I understand it all but that's not really relevant.

 

EDIT: to clarify: the language I understand, but Thai tax law  I really don't, and I also don't feel like learning about it. And never took a Corruption 101 course, if that would even help because it seems to involve having gone to school with the person in the bank or government office .  Very happy to let the Mrs. weave her financial web at the end of the year "because I pay too much tax".

Edited January 16, 2017 by WinnieTheKhwai

[Chicog]

1 hour ago, NancyL said:

OK, Amykat, Buddhalady, the OP and I need to draw up a roster, so we can cover this thread 24/7 to keep it under control.  Meanwhile, we'll invite TallGuyJohn who came up from BKK to join our team as someone who can write from our perspective. 

 

Amykat's been deflecting more than her share of bullcr@p on this thread.    I spent Sunday working on CEC stuff, today at CM Immigration and tomorrow I'll be helping someone at Suan Dok hospital.  Hard to chime in when I'm typing on a Smartphone.  I'll do what I can this evening.

 

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

16 minutes ago, 14Stevie said:

 

 

"Simbaya, I'm glad you've worked this out in your mind. As I said earlier I can't match you TV name with you so I didn't know if you are one of those foreign women who are bothered with Thai/Western pairs. You say not so OK.

It finally dawned on you that some men are cads no matter where they live. As I mentioned, I know some women who retired here with their husbands, only to have the husband "run off" with a young Thai woman during the first year.

They may blame Thai women, but in truth the marriage had problems before they got here. It wasn't the first time the husband strayed."
 

Notwithstanding any of the generalisations in the OP original post the above is just a taste of what has been said against the male side of the argument yet the bold type in your own post seems to be aimed solely against the male side of things (Anti-female posters....one of them).

 

Don't get me wrong - I'm all for parity - but your post appears so biased towards a particular male element that you are seen to be solely on the female side.

 

There are two sides to every argument and generalisations either way DO NOT help.

 

If you want value aim your comments squarely at both sides of the divide otherwise you leave any perceived bias open to all.

 

I repeat - I want parity with an equal, fair discussion and respect to both sides.

 

I believe you've quoted one of Nancy's posts in bold above, in responding to my call for all of us to treat and judge each other as individuals, and stop broad-brushing disdain for people posters don't even know.

 

I don't have any problem with Nancy's post above. She's speaking of her real personal experiences with particular people.

 

And I don't disagree with her comment that "some men are cads no matter where they live." Just as I don't disagree with the notion expressed by some men here that some women they've known are "harpies" and such.

 

But it's an entirely different and unsupportable matter to start broad-brushing those kinds of negative stereotypes against entire populations/segments of people, especially people that you don't actually know. Like some of the very negative characterizations made in this thread by some people against western female expats at large here.

 

That's the difference between the two things.

 

 

 

[fruitman]

She only abused the word "whore" to get our free attention....guess she's lonely here and doesn't want to pay for attention.

 

Well she won't get mine though, and after reading all this i sure won't speak to ANY farang woman i see in Thailand...figure it all out yourself is my reply.

[NancyL]

25 minutes ago, 14Stevie said:

 

 

"Simbaya, I'm glad you've worked this out in your mind. As I said earlier I can't match you TV name with you so I didn't know if you are one of those foreign women who are bothered with Thai/Western pairs. You say not so OK.

It finally dawned on you that some men are cads no matter where they live. As I mentioned, I know some women who retired here with their husbands, only to have the husband "run off" with a young Thai woman during the first year.

They may blame Thai women, but in truth the marriage had problems before they got here. It wasn't the first time the husband strayed."
 

Notwithstanding any of the generalisations in the OP original post the above is just a taste of what has been said against the male side of the argument yet the bold type in your own post seems to be aimed solely against the male side of things (Anti-female posters....one of them).

 

Don't get me wrong - I'm all for parity - but your post appears so biased towards a particular male element that you are seen to be solely on the female side.

 

There are two sides to every argument and generalisations either way DO NOT help.

 

If you want value aim your comments squarely at both sides of the divide otherwise you leave any perceived bias open to all.

 

I repeat - I want parity with an equal, fair discussion and respect to both sides.

Reason for edit:  John already figured out that the post in BF was mine, the response was nonsense.

[cyberfarang]

16 minutes ago, fruitman said:

She only abused the word "whore" to get our free attention....guess she's lonely here and doesn't want to pay for attention.

 

Well she won't get mine though, and after reading all this i sure won't speak to ANY farang woman i see in Thailand...figure it all out yourself is my reply.

I wouldn`t go as far to say I won`t speak to any Farlang women here, but I would say approach with caution. Seems they are frustrated, bitter about somethings and consider everyone in Thailand as being against him. They appear to be victims of themselves and come across as depressing and unhappy and to add to the misery I have met several old Farlang women in my social circles that can`t hit it off with each other either, at times it`s been hate at first sight. A few have responded to my posts as if on the defense but I`m still none the wiser as to exactly what they want? And in fact I`m not sure whether they know what they want either or they`re aiming their expectations too high.

 

Definitely an eye opener and would make me hesitate if trying to hold out the hand of friendship to them.

[Get Real]

As I think, you might be right in a lot of what you describe. Unfortunately Thailand has a tendancy to attract both older and younger men, that mostly hang with their friends in the bars everyday and discuss how much problem they have with the wife at home. After that might pick up a girl for the night. Not saying that all are like that, but it exists in a big scale.

That might then be the men you are talking about, because the ones that know how to live and respect the ones they live with normally don´t start conversations regarding other women´s phone number or a coffée.

It might also be that you occasionly meet men that live by themselfs. In that case I suspect it might be just a friendly gesture, or maybe a chance to get together with a western woman in Thailand. On the other hand that would be rare.

Any other things I just can´t come up with, and I wish you a continued good stay in Thailand. Just don´t bother so much about it. As always what you see is the things you react to. Mostly that is the bad things. When everything is normal and work like it should, it´s many times invisible instead.

[SoiBiker]

The farang women I know in Thailand are either out enjoying themselves most of the time or happily married and enjoying a pleasant lifestyle here. I guess there must be some miserable harpies too, but I've never met them. 

[WinnieTheKhwai]

13 minutes ago, SoiBiker said:

The farang women I know in Thailand are either out enjoying themselves most of the time or happily married and enjoying a pleasant lifestyle here. I guess there must be some miserable harpies too, but I've never met them. 

 

Well they do by and large have the good sense to leave when they're unhappy.

 

Unlike the men..

[fruitman]

19 minutes ago, cyberfarang said:

I wouldn`t go as far to say I won`t speak to any Farlang women here, but I would say approach with caution. Seems they are frustrated, bitter about somethings and consider everyone in Thailand as being against him. They appear to be victims of themselves and come across as depressing and unhappy and to add to the misery I have met several old Farlang women in my social circles that can`t hit it off with each other either, at times it`s been hate at first sight. A few have responded to my posts as if on the defense but I`m still none the wiser as to exactly what they want? And in fact I`m not sure whether they know what they want either or they`re aiming their expectations too high.

 

Definitely an eye opener and would make me hesitate if trying to hold out the hand of friendship to them.

 

The ones i sometimes meet are lesbians by the look of them, found a tom and have to cook for her every day.

 

But the OP considers herself intellectual  (like if Thai can't be so) and also thinks all men here are attracted to whores (which is not the case). 

 

This OP is full of problems and wants attention from us here cause she can't get it from the Thai which she thinks are too un-intellectual for her to speak with.

 

The problem with this whole forum is that many only stay in lowclass places of Thailand and think that represents the whole country.

There are plenty educated thai as well but you won't find them on the streets, at least you'll have to pass security to meet them, anywhere.