Intellectual Whore

[cmsally]

Maybe OP should go to her local pub, find some people to listen and try to solve her problems.

Something like "bar stool psychology"

[NancyL]

5 minutes ago, beachproperty said:

Maybe OP didn't have a problem at all.....Apparently men want to solve problems when all the women wants is someone to listen

 

Bingo!

[Cyclone88]

You sound the type of woman with her nose up her a.. 

Someone I definitely wouldn't want to meet.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

23 minutes ago, cmsally said:

16 pages of posts, we should have the solution by now, surely ?!

 

We didn't get enough feedback and follow-up from the OP, just a highly intellectual theory that there are two groups of men, those who hate her and those who want an affair with her.

 

She's a 50+ year old lady in Thailand who disrespects Thai's intellectual capabilities, AND she's picky.  Rough road ahead. :)

 

11 minutes ago, cmsally said:

Maybe OP should go to her local pub, find some people to listen and try to solve her problems.

 

Well, that's what normal people would do.  Here we have a person who in post #1 said that she doesn't want men to talk to her because she feels taken advantage of as a brain whore.

 

That's a very special kind of special.

 

16 minutes ago, beachproperty said:

Maybe OP didn't have a problem at all.....Apparently men want to solve problems when all the women wants is someone to listen

 

11 minutes ago, NancyL said:

Bingo!

 

So... after 16 pages the conclusion is we're all her intellectual whores, and at no pay no less?   I feel taken advantage of! 

[lannarebirth]

10 minutes ago, NancyL said:

 

Bingo!

 

It's that Mars/Venus thing isn't it? Surely a 50+ year old intellectual would have grokked on to that by now.

[mstevens]

To the original poster,

 

Many of the Western men in Thailand are the dregs of their homeland, and it is my observation that this is especially so amongst retirees.  Many have poor manners and are harbouring a lot of hate and anger for their situation in life which is often one of neglected health and poor finances.  They maintain that their life has never been better but many are just plain miserable.  And when it comes to Western women, many seem to blame where they're at on the fairer sex and can be openly hostile and extremely rude.  Quite frankly, many expat men in Thailand - and I reiterate that retirees appear to be the worst - are just plan not nice people.

 

I know it won't make you feel any better but there is a growing awareness amongst Thais, younger expats and those expats who are moving ahead that these cantankerous, rude types are to be avoided.

 

Thailand is a fun place and the reason I don't live their year round and prefer to spend half the year in Australia and half in Thailand is that I just cannot stomach many of the expats in Thailand.

[canuckamuck]

15 minutes ago, WinnieTheKhwai said:

We didn't get enough feedback and follow-up from the OP, just a highly intellectual theory that there are two groups of men, those who hate her and those who want an affair with her.

That relates to the view that men are simple binary units. I'd hit that, or I wouldn't hit that. They don't know men are much more complex. For instance, everything gets recalculated if their friends aren't around.

[little mary sunshine]

Mostly "your perception "of men.  Try joining

a little theatre group, book club, or expat club,

you may find these groups more stimulating and

the Western men more educated.

[nottocus]

22 hours ago, Simbaya said:

Boy, I HAVE been "overthinking things."

 

And I don't mean this sarcastically, either.

 

Today, I "got it," the penny dropped, the light bulb switched on.  And the answer was so simple.

 

When I woke up this morning, I had the solution to my question: Why some western men seem to disparage us farang women, yet seek us out  (intellectually or otherwise) for "something on the side."

 

First, let me preface this with saying, I do know the difference between a man saying he'd like me to meet his wife sometime, ask me to a group activity, or otherwise indicate he's being entirely above-board with me.  Truly, I know the difference.

 

I'm talking about the invitation that just seems a little illicit.  The kind of invitation that I'm pretty sure that wife/GF won't be hearing about, OK?

 

Anyway, my epiphany actually came to me in the form of a Venn diagram, believe it or not!

 

Here's how I was overthinking it:

 

I was thinking in terms of how some FARANG men disparage us FARANG women.  I was thinking of how some FARANG men also seemed to seek out an "intellectual" (or other) affair with us, quite possibly not revealing this to their THAI wives/GFs.

 

And although these were not the exact same men, I knew they were *potentially* the same (kind of) man, but I couldn't quite see how this "love/hate" dichotomy worked.

 

That's because it's not a dichotomy--it's an inter-relationship.

 

Here's where the Venn diagram comes in.

 

Picture one circle representing farang men who disparage us.  The men who have told me to "go home," called me a fat pig, the men who've trashed me and other women on this and other forums.

 

Picture the other circle representing men who are (IMO) not being exactly fair or truthful to their wives by asking to take me out or call me (in what seems kinda like a down-low deal).

 

The intersection of these two circles is the crux of it:

 

MEN WHO DON'T FULLY RESPECT WOMEN (farang OR their Thai wives).

 

Well, DUH!

 

Why couldn't I see it was as simple as that?  

 

There are men like this everywhere, not just LOS (although I would argue we have a lion's share here).

 

There are women everywhere who are guilty of the same or similar behavior as well.

 

Again, DUH!

 

To all the men who have followed this thread and have felt offended, please remember that I never said all, most, or even many men engaged in these behaviors--I said SOME me do.

 

To the nice guys, please accept my olive branch.

 

I honestly have been trying to work through this phenomenon. Thinking aloud in this forum, receiving feedback--good and bad--help me see the glaringly obvious facts.

 

So thanks to everyone.  I sincerely mean it.

 

That's the last word from me.  I'm out!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Clueless

[lannarebirth]

5 minutes ago, mstevens said:

To the original poster,

 

Many of the Western men in Thailand are the dregs of their homeland, and it is my observation that this is especially so amongst retirees.  Many have poor manners and are harbouring a lot of hate and anger for their situation in life which is often one of neglected health and poor finances.  They maintain that their life has never been better but many are just plain miserable.  And when it comes to Western women, many seem to blame where they're at on the fairer sex and can be openly hostile and extremely rude.  Quite frankly, many expat men in Thailand - and I reiterate that retirees appear to be the worst - are just plan not nice people.

 

I know it won't make you feel any better but there is a growing awareness amongst Thais, younger expats and those expats who are moving ahead that these cantankerous, rude types are to be avoided.

 

Thailand is a fun place and the reason I don't live their year round and prefer to spend half the year in Australia and half in Thailand is that I just cannot stomach many of the expats in Thailand.

 

You sound a lot like the OP "Simbaya". You claim that you don't live in Thailand all year as you'd wish, because you can't stomach many of the expats. Why would you give anyone that power over you? You can come and enjoy Thailand and never encounter an expat if you wish. Up to you. 

[BrainLife]

3 things:

 

- show a photo here of yourself and surely you will be bothered less after this topic

- since you seem to see western men as being a "threat" for whatever reason, you could just ignore them when speaking to you. Pretend you don't understand English

- saying that I am sure there are plenty of western A..Holes in Chiang Mai

[rijb]

1 minute ago, lannarebirth said:

 

You sound a lot like the OP "Simbaya". You claim that you don't live in Thailand all year as you'd wish, because you can't stomach many of the expats. Why would you give anyone that power over you? You can come and enjoy Thailand and never encounter an expat if you wish. Up to you. 

 

No one can make you feel inferior (or miserable) without your consent.  - Eleanor Roosevelt

[lannarebirth]

Just now, rijb said:

 

No one can make you feel inferior (or miserable) without your consent.  - Eleanor Roosevelt

 

Exactly!

[SOUTHERNSTAR]

As for the disrespectful foreign men, you now know how many Thai women feel about foreign men treating them. But it does stop there, you have the foreign women talking about them or they when refering to Thai people. For example "they never use warm water to wash the dishes" or "they don't know how to clean the house". 

 

As for the IW subject you should feel honored if men see you as a IW it maybe your best asset. As long as they are not trying to cheat their wives its ok.

[SOTIRIOS]

...sorry that you live in Chiang Mai...and I in Bangkok...you sound like someone I'd like to meet...

 

...pretty shocking and disappointing experiences....

 

...yet even I as a male.....but 'not traditional macho sports fanatic, etc'....am ostracized......anyone 'different'....

 

.....completely understand and believe you...

[onekoolguy]

I enjoy talking to intelligent western women and I think that most also enjoy speaking to a like minded western man?

Why do you have a problem with this?

Do you belong to the "Church of the Perpetually Offended"?

[SoiBiker]

It's fascinating how many of the responses - particularly those who have struggled to understand the OP - have focussed on the question of what is her problem, or what does she want?

 

Maybe she just wanted to discuss an aspect of expat life here without having a bunch of patronising men jump down her throat and tell her she's wrong, explain things to her, or try and solve her problems?

 

 

 

 

[jacko45k]

Sorry, wasn't listening.

[buddhalady]

15 hours ago, NancyL said:

OK, Amykat, Buddhalady, the OP and I need to draw up a roster, so we can cover this thread 24/7 to keep it under control.  Meanwhile, we'll invite TallGuyJohn who came up from BKK to join our team as someone who can write from our perspective. 

 

Amykat's been deflecting more than her share of bullcr@p on this thread.    I spent Sunday working on CEC stuff, today at CM Immigration and tomorrow I'll be helping someone at Suan Dok hospital.  Hard to chime in when I'm typing on a Smartphone.  I'll do what I can this evening.

Great idea, Nancy - I've been attempting to stay out of this as much as possible as I try to avoid the negativity and anger caused by reading the majority of the male posts! However, I'm overjoyed the mods decided to reopen the thread as it's one of the most definitive and interesting TVF discussions for a very long time and points to real problem here in the expat community.

To the male posters who believe we're all 'old boilers' - you'd be amazed if you bothered to actually talk with us on a human level - we'd be happy to get into that conversation but, sadly, I suspect it ain't ever going to happen! 

Nancy, Amy and I am planning to meet up sometime very soon - would be good if you could find the time to join us.

 

[FolkGuitar]

1 hour ago, cmsally said:

 

16 pages of posts, we should have the solution by now, surely ?!

 

There is no solution... Only a situation. And, sad to say, a condition.

There are a whole lot of people out there just waiting for the opportunity to be offended by something.

[lannarebirth]

22 minutes ago, SOTIRIOS said:

...sorry that you live in Chiang Mai...and I in Bangkok...you sound like someone I'd like to meet...

 

...pretty shocking and disappointing experiences....

 

...yet even I as a male.....but 'not traditional macho sports fanatic, etc'....am ostracized......anyone 'different'....

 

.....completely understand and believe you...

 

So, we've got a love connection. This is what the PM function was made for.

[thesetat2013]

Have you ever given thought that perhaps it is you and not the western men who are having a problem? You obviously show conceit and claim self righteousness as well as considering that you are thinking yourself a whore in any respect. 

Perhaps, as it is obvious you can't fathom. Is that these men who want to chat you or meet you to talk over coffee actually thought it would be nice to have a foreigner friend locally to talk easy with. As you clearly said in your little stit here. Yet, you condemn the man and consider yourself a whore? Maybe you need to either stop talking with foreign men at all, or stop over evaluating a friendly gesture. 

[lannarebirth]

1 hour ago, rijb said:

 

No one can make you feel inferior (or miserable) without your consent.  - Eleanor Roosevelt

 

I am sure the OP has spent 10's of thousands of dollars with a shrink to have them tell her just that. It is the putting it into action that is the most difficult.

[LivinLOS]

13 minutes ago, buddhalady said:

To the male posters who believe we're all 'old boilers' - you'd be amazed if you bothered to actually talk with us on a human level - we'd be happy to get into that conversation but, sadly, I suspect it ain't ever going to happen! 

 

 

Didnt this whole thing start from someone doing exactly that ?? 

[lannarebirth]

20 minutes ago, SoiBiker said:

It's fascinating how many of the responses - particularly those who have struggled to understand the OP - have focussed on the question of what is her problem, or what does she want?

 

Maybe she just wanted to discuss an aspect of expat life here without having a bunch of patronising men jump down her throat and tell her she's wrong, explain things to her, or try and solve her problems?

 

 

 

 

 

I'm not sure where it is, but it is my understanding that there is a forum here on TV, especially for women, that may be just the place she is looking for. I doubt if well traveled women will cut her much more slack than she has experienced here though. 

[Kabula]

Women generally have the power if they know how to use it!

 

After eye contact is made a nice big smile, a hello or even better yet if you are interested in that person; say; "you look like an interesting person, what is your name as I would like to get to know you better."

 

It's a negative world today so you may unconsciously be radiating negativity by not smiling or in your posture.

 

Positive people that smile today are the winners in personal relationships, and business.

 

 A big smile is the first step towards world peace.

 

We all have to go back to basics for building self esteem and happiness.

 

The worse case scenario is  your inner, child, core, subconscious hates men. 

 

Avoid negative people, verbal abuse, a gaslighting Narcissis and you will be better for it.

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaslighting

[rkidlad]

I dated an American girl here once. She was a lovely girl, but she was angry and bitter deep down. She basically thought all Western men here were sexpats. "Why do Western guys like Thai girls?" "What do you talk about?" "You really like skinny girls with no boobs?". I think I said about 5 times "Who cares?". Let other people do what they want. Also, don't stereotype all men. I know men seem to be fair game when stereotyping, but it can be offensive and insulting. 

 

I like Asian girls. I also like Western girls. I'll always be nice to anyone who's nice to me. The women I find most attractive in the world happen to be Western girls. I've met some Western girls here who were so nice. So charming. It kinda made me think that ultimately I'd like to settle down with a Western girl. I need to be able to talk with someone openly and honestly about all subjects. Nothing should be taboo. 

 

Anywho, if you're a good judge of character, it's pretty easy to spot that "I'm an angry and bitter person" vibe. I can tell this very quickly, so I simply let this person be. I won't waste any time or sleep over that person. I remember meeting a new girl from England at work. She had no clue about Thailand and needed help. She lived in an apartment on the way to mine. She asked me the best way to get home. I gave her the options and info and then said she could share a taxi with me. It's on my way back so no problem. She refused at first saying she'd figure it out. I saw her waiting outside looking bewildered, so I made the offer again. She got in the taxi, sat right on the edge, kinda turning from me. I got this bad vibe from here. On the way back, I pointed out some places of note, and she arrived home. I later became good friends with her, but she admitted she thought I was cracking onto her. She had a bf back home and thought I was making a pass. I said I was just being nice. She said she'd been warned by a friend about Western guys in Thailand.

 

I guess the message is don't assume a certain group of people are all bad. It really isn't hard to talk with someone and suss them out fairly quickly. The trick is to actually listen to what they say. So often people don't listen and just wait for their turn to talk. Listen to what the other person is saying and you can soon work out whether this person is nice, creepy, bit weird, etc. People spend way too much time and energy worrying about what other people think of them, or being angry about having an interaction with an a*****e. Build a bridge and get over it. 

[cmsally]

10 minutes ago, buddhalady said:

Great idea, Nancy - I've been attempting to stay out of this as much as possible as I try to avoid the negativity and anger caused by reading the majority of the male posts! However, I'm overjoyed the mods decided to reopen the thread as it's one of the most definitive and interesting TVF discussions for a very long time and points to real problem here in the expat community.

To the male posters who believe we're all 'old boilers' - you'd be amazed if you bothered to actually talk with us on a human level - we'd be happy to get into that conversation but, sadly, I suspect it ain't ever going to happen! 

Nancy, Amy and I am planning to meet up sometime very soon - would be good if you could find the time to join us.

 

 

On one hand you are saying you need to avoid the "negativity and anger" and on the other you are saying it's one of the most " definitive and interesting " discussions.

 

Have you ever thought that the 2 spheres actually are part of the whole. In general you need to have some of the former to achieve the latter. I don't think the problem is necessarily with Thai expat life but maybe a product of the "present " and some of Western society. There is often an expectation to be "nice" and have a conversation that is very much a veneer with no substance. There is so much pressure to avoid confrontation and "say the right thing" . Afraid of being misunderstood and jump to conclusions etc. I think it is a serious problem in Western society - the lack of real debate and conversation.

To an extent the continuation of this thread proves my point.

 

 

[IAMHERE]

'Intellectual Whore'  please tell me someone didn't say 'a penny for your thoughts' , if so it is just an expression, really.

[lungnorm]

What do you expect. You are living in a place that no matter where you go there you will encounter men from many different countries. These men are basically all dirty old men and are in Thailand to have sex with younger women maybe they marry them but its still the reason they are there. Most all have beer huge bellies and man boobs. They also have left or divorced their ageing overweight wives. So with all that said, most of the male ferangs living in Thailand will have super ego's as they have sex with many young Thai ladies. They think they are supermen, so when they see you they are reminded of what they left behind at home and your presence is a gentle reminder to their concience. Just ignore them and do your own thing.