Yingluck testifies to Central Administrative Court

[mike324]

3 hours ago, Wilsonandson said:

So it should be Thaksin in court and not Yingluck. But they can't catch Thaksin so they'll string up his sister instead. That should stir the Issanites into an uprising. Just what Thaksin wants.

 

I guess you do not know about Thai politics and its history. Prior to Yingluck it was the Dems in power, after the new election -- Yingluck was elected. Yingluck repeated the Rice Scheme (the same that was introduce under Thaksin) when she was PM, many organizations around the world have even warned her that she was repeating history and would be a major disaster. She says all the things are in place to prevent corruption. Her party kept on saying it is sustainable and will be free from corruption as checks are in place. Not only that, YIngluck was the head of the Rice Committee yet she has never attended a single meeting.

 

So the fault lies squarely on her.

 

So no, this has nothing to do with Thaksin.

[JAG]

All said before, getting boring. Are you taking over from el?

 

Quote: "There is one essential difference which you (and others) refuse to acknowledge."

 

And I throw all of that back at you. You refuse to accept that the last group of immoral paid thieves  were way less than capable or genuine, they refused to respect the rules, should have been the high moral compass, and quite openly weren't, and had made progress to create a dictatorship directed by a convicted criminal living in self imposed exile to avoid a jail term (which was not politically motivated) and operating through a family naive puppet. In fact highly insulting to the people of Thailand.

 

You, and others love to use the terms like 'junta huggers', 'junta lovers' etc., because you think it somehow enhances your line. But you never acknowledge the many posters who refute these terms and indicate that they see the current situation as highly undesireable and very bumpy, but pragmatic. You want people to respect your opinion then please respect others opinion.

 

Yes this country is way out of balance and desperately needs to get much closer to equal opportunity, equal justice etc., and I presume we all hope it changes in the very near future. Reality is of course that the rich are not going to roll over, however IMHO more and more Thai folks are demanding justice, demanding to be heard etc, and I hope it picks up speed. 

1. You still refuse to address that essential difference - the Thaksin governments, in their various forms, were repeatedly elected.

2. You allege that they refuse to respect the rules, and were creating a dictatorship, yet they offered themselves for election when challenged. The junta took power by force - which act is the action of a dictator?

3. What could be more insulting to the people of Thailand than a military which repeatedly overthrown the governments they choose to install a cabal in thrall to a wealthy minority, who as you rightly state "are not going to roll over".

4. It's not that I don't " respect your opinions", I don't agree with them, think that they are fundamentally wrong, repeatedly explain why I think that and criticise them accordingly. I'm sorry if you find that boring, but then the constant stream of clichés such as "paid thieves", "convicted criminal", and "naive puppet " palls after a while as well. Respect doesn't come into it. I tend to avoid phrases such as "Junta Huggers", although you yourself are hardly averse to the odd derogatory comment - does "go play in your sand pit" ring any bells? If not go and look at post# 20. Respect?

So yes, it has all been said before, by me and others, and no doubt we will say it all again, because it reflects the fundamentals of a discussion which seeks to justify the overthrow and replacement of a constitutionally established democratically elected ( if flawed in many ways) government, repeatedly chosen by the Thai electorate, with a military junta.

[bkk75]

Make her pay!  Make her pay!  Make her pay!

 

I'm sure she can afford it by selling all her shoes and purses.

 

[Cuchulainn]

 Blub blub blub wail screech scream...........ha ha ha ha.

 

Som nam naa, you evil contemptible corrupt failed puppet.

 

[tukkytuktuk]

All said before, getting boring. Are you taking over from el?

 

Quote: "There is one essential difference which you (and others) refuse to acknowledge."

 

And I throw all of that back at you. You refuse to accept that the last group of immoral paid thieves  were way less than capable or genuine, they refused to respect the rules, should have been the high moral compass, and quite openly weren't, and had made progress to create a dictatorship directed by a convicted criminal living in self imposed exile to avoid a jail term (which was not politically motivated) and operating through a family naive puppet. In fact highly insulting to the people of Thailand.

 

You, and others love to use the terms like 'junta huggers', 'junta lovers' etc., because you think it somehow enhances your line. But you never acknowledge the many posters who refute these terms and indicate that they see the current situation as highly undesireable and very bumpy, but pragmatic. You want people to respect your opinion then please respect others opinion.

 

Yes this country is way out of balance and desperately needs to get much closer to equal opportunity, equal justice etc., and I presume we all hope it changes in the very near future. Reality is of course that the rich are not going to roll over, however IMHO more and more Thai folks are demanding o justice, demanding to be heard etc, and I hope it picks up speed. 

"This country needs equal opportunity and equal justice. But the rich won't let it happen. More and more Thai's want justice and to be heard." Said Scorecard.

Are you a red shirt? UDD supporter not Chinese New Year celebrator.

[Xonax]

Now would be the perfect time to admit, what everybody already knows. That she was only a puppet.

[elgordo38]

17 hours ago, snoop1130 said:

She was accompanied by three lawyers during the pre-trial hearing.

Yes the lawyers are the big winners in all this with their meters running. Sorry YL your peeing into proverbial wind. Your just going through the motions. Surely you had enough sense to move your money out of the country if not well you and Joan of Arc have much in common. 

[elgordo38]

15 hours ago, Wilsonandson said:

You have to hand it to her. She never gives up.

 

The populist card is about the only one she has left to play. 

[elgordo38]

3 hours ago, scorecard said:

Twist, twist, twist - did you forget all the stuff about dereliction of duty - you seem to have a shot memory when needed. 

They cannot get at Thaskin so they look for a surrogate to punish. Sending an indirect message. There are other countries in the world that hold families of diplomats etc. hostage. In this case the intent is the same but the reaction a bit more subtle. Its kind of a takeoff as the saying "Paying for the sins of the fathers"

[Baerboxer]

8 hours ago, oldgent said:

this young lady was made Prime Minister by the people she did not make up this rice scheme

by her self there were others who if i could call them advisers suggested that this was the right thing to do

my point is why is she being held responsible, ok ok i know she had the last say, but her advisers should

also be brought to justice 

 

 

Maybe because she appointed herself Chair of the Scheme, stood up several times and said she and only she was in charge, and asserted on numerous occasions that there were no problems or issues within the scheme.

 

Check out her time in office and the statements she issued. Sadly riddled with lies.

 

Maybe that's why.

[Baerboxer]

7 hours ago, Wilsonandson said:

So it should be Thaksin in court and not Yingluck. But they can't catch Thaksin so they'll string up his sister instead. That should stir the Issanites into an uprising. Just what Thaksin wants.

 

No. Yingluck appointed herself Chair of the Scheme, although couldn't be bothered to actually turn up and do any work. She claimed several times that she and only she was in charge, she asserted many times all was well in the scheme and threatened or ignored any who dared speak against it.

 

Undoubtedly she was controlled by her brother, the family patriarch but she went very willingly along and played her part without apparent remorse.

 

I doubt anyone would "rise up" to benefit the Shins anymore. 

 

 

[Baerboxer]

6 hours ago, JAG said:

 

"who use ill gotten monopoly money to buy ruthless power with no respect for laws, the building and maintenance of civil society "

Congratulations, a remarkably accurate description of the current regime.

 

 

Are you denying that describes the Shins?

[oldsailor35]

14 hours ago, aguy30 said:

I see 2 options:

1 She was Taksin's puppet, so let Taksin support her. He can afford it.

2 Try to get a job at 7-11, if she can pass the interview and if she can learn how to use the cash register and make change.

If all politicians were held personally responsible for every project in which  they were involved around the world. Nothing would ever get done. But of course this is Thailand where revenge and blame seems to be the objective of every political party and its supporters against its opposition. Especially when they cannot get rid of them through the ballot box.  Say no more!

[oldsailor35]

8 hours ago, onthesoi said:

You've successfully answered your own question there oldgent.

 

You know the rice scheme was really a rice scam right?

It is the only way that the opposition can defeat her popularity. Something to note is that the present government are trying to accomplish exactly the same rice project.

 

[Baerboxer]

5 hours ago, robblok said:

Correct, he will never give up on the amnesty, that is why even when it was killed nobody believed the government. It could have been revived without voting and became law. Given how his name just miraculously appeared after votes on an other version (seems democratic does it not) who would trust them. It was this amnesty that brought out the people that finally helped to topple that corrupt PTP government. 

 

They would have been in power still, without the amnesty. People say the army would have stepped in for "the event" but I doubt that they would have as there would have been no support like there as at that time. This was brought on their heads by Thaksin.. the guy will never stop to ruin the country for his own amnesty. 

 

Actually Rob, although PTP said they killed all the Amnesty Bills off in response to the mass civil protests. But they missed one! And of course it was the one illegally amended to add Thaksins name. That bill, rejected by the Senate, would have in a few months, returned to the lower house where it could have been voted into law, without further referral to the senate - and volila Chummy is a free man - of convictions, criminal charges, outstanding cases, warrants - the lot. 

 

Quite a good plan. But he pushed it too far and failed to recognize the massive revulsion and reaction it would cause. 

[Baerboxer]

Just now, oldsailor35 said:

It is the only way that the opposition can defeat her popularity. Something to note is that the present government are trying to accomplish exactly the same rice project.

 

Wrong on both counts.

[Baerboxer]

4 minutes ago, oldsailor35 said:

If all politicians were held personally responsible for every project in which  they were involved around the world. Nothing would ever get done. But of course this is Thailand where revenge and blame seems to be the objective of every political party and its supporters against its opposition. Especially when they cannot get rid of them through the ballot box.  Say no more!

 

But Politicians should be held responsible for negligence - like when they appoint themselves chair of something and never bother to actually do anything to the point of threatening and ignoring all who try and get them to do something?

 

A tad different to what your're claiming.

[oldsailor35]

1 hour ago, Xonax said:

Now would be the perfect time to admit, what everybody already knows. That she was only a puppet.

 

It never ceases to amaze me how the farang  "sheep" which follow the Democrat party in Thailand, just keep on repeating the same old cliches and actually believing them, indicating  their complete inability to even begin to think for themselves.

[Baerboxer]

3 hours ago, JAG said:

1. You still refuse to address that essential difference - the Thaksin governments, in their various forms, were repeatedly elected.

2. You allege that they refuse to respect the rules, and were creating a dictatorship, yet they offered themselves for election when challenged. The junta took power by force - which act is the action of a dictator?

3. What could be more insulting to the people of Thailand than a military which repeatedly overthrown the governments they choose to install a cabal in thrall to a wealthy minority, who as you rightly state "are not going to roll over".

4. It's not that I don't " respect your opinions", I don't agree with them, think that they are fundamentally wrong, repeatedly explain why I think that and criticise them accordingly. I'm sorry if you find that boring, but then the constant stream of clichés such as "paid thieves", "convicted criminal", and "naive puppet " palls after a while as well. Respect doesn't come into it. I tend to avoid phrases such as "Junta Huggers", although you yourself are hardly averse to the odd derogatory comment - does "go play in your sand pit" ring any bells? If not go and look at post# 20. Respect?

So yes, it has all been said before, by me and others, and no doubt we will say it all again, because it reflects the fundamentals of a discussion which seeks to justify the overthrow and replacement of a constitutionally established democratically elected ( if flawed in many ways) government, repeatedly chosen by the Thai electorate, with a military junta.

 

Election - Deflection, that's the name of the game. Whatever question was put to Yingluck, standard answer - I come from election. Some posters love that same deflection.

 

The point is, elected or not, if you deliberately and repeatedly act in a negligent fashion, you can be charged with negligence.

 

It no time have I read Yingluck's explanation of how she could appoint herself Chair of this scheme, but never bother to ever do any work or even turn up; how she could dismiss all warnings from international bodies; how she could threaten and browbeat people who brought issues to light; how she could continually assert there were no issues without making sure; etc etc etc .

 

Perhaps you have read them and can enlighten us all.

[oldsailor35]

2 minutes ago, oldsailor35 said:

It never ceases to amaze me how the farang  "sheep" which follow the Democrat party in Thailand, just keep on repeating the same old cliches and actually believing them, indicating  their complete inability to even begin to think for themselves.

One Baerboxer is a very good example of this type of brainwashed individual.  who just keeps on spewing the same old crap.  Duhhhhh

[JAG]

52 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Are you denying that describes the Shins?

I'm suggesting that describes the junta.

Oh, and don't bother trying to trick me into saying something you can then crow about. You know very well my views on the PTP governments. If you've forgotten you only have to look at my last couple of posts on this thread.

[oldgent]

10 hours ago, onthesoi said:

Cliff notes..

 

The rice scheme was originally conceived by Thaksin.

 

Buy rice from poor Thai farmers at above-market prices,

Stockpile the rice to drive up global prices with a view to sell later for big profits.

 

While it might sound like a shrewd idea, It was actually a huge, reckless gamble with almost half a trillion baht of public money.  Because, rice markets are volatile & rice is a perishable item of variable quality with a limited shelf life and picky end customers & it's simply crazy to believe Thailand could brace the world rice market, who in their right mind would expose so much money to huge risks.

 

India then decided to re-enter the global rice market thus flooded the world with cheap rice, which dropped the global rice price, leaving Thailand with a huge mountain of overpriced, putrefying asset in place of expected profit.  Rice isn't like other commodities, not like gold, that can be stored forever until the price goes up.

That's why it was a stupid and reckless idea.

 

But, wait.  Where is the scam I hear you ask?  Ask yourself, how a shrewd, seasoned business family like the Shinawatras could make such an obvious schoolboy blunder?

 

Well, the poor Thai rice farmer thought they had died and gone to baht heaven.

All that free money from government subsidy.

The rice scheme was heavily promoted via Shinawatra' political party to attract votes which it did in spades ...So the poor majority kept voting for the Shinawatras and kept them in power for a long time.  That's why Issanites(rice farmers) to this day love the Shinawatra clan so much....free money!

Except, it wasn't free money, it was/is the money the Thai governments should be using to run the country, build schools etc

 

The rice scheme was actually just smoke and mirrors.  The Shinawatras don't actually care about the lost money because it's not their money & the lost money bought the real prize, control of Thailand, which paid for itself ten fold straight into Thaksin's foreign bank accounts.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

thank you for putting me in the picture so old Thaksin was the mastermind

[JAG]

4 hours ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Election - Deflection, that's the name of the game. Whatever question was put to Yingluck, standard answer - I come from election. Some posters love that same deflection.

 

The point is, elected or not, if you deliberately and repeatedly act in a negligent fashion, you can be charged with negligence.

 

It no time have I read Yingluck's explanation of how she could appoint herself Chair of this scheme, but never bother to ever do any work or even turn up; how she could dismiss all warnings from international bodies; how she could threaten and browbeat people who brought issues to light; how she could continually assert there were no issues without making sure; etc etc etc .

 

Perhaps you have read them and can enlighten us all.

Not at all a deflection, the fact is that "I come from election", to use a malapropism which you so love to quote, gives her government a legitimacy which the junta cannot claim. Its not a deflection, it is perhaps the central point in the whole issue. She was elected, her government was elected.  Its relevance is reinforced by the fact that the coup which installed the junta took place whilst an entirely constitutional election was being arranged, an election which had been initially blocked by those who were calling for a military coup and appointed government.

 

Your second point , that if you deliberately and repeatedly act in a negligent fashion, you can be charged with negligence, may have some validity, were the charges to be made as a result of a transparent apolitical investigation, conducted free from political interference and the charges subsequently heard in an independent court  That the charges were brought by a junta government installed by a coup,  that her ability to call witnesses in her defense has been curtailed, and that the penalty has been decided and imposed by decree before the trial has been completed, let alone before a verdict has been announced  ( I nearly said decided, but of course it was decided long ago - driven by the need to destroy the Shinawatras as a political force), rather removes that validity. There are arguments to be made that her government was incompetent, that it was negligent, that it was corrupt, full of cronyism and nepotism. Those are arguments that should have been resolved by the verdict of the electorate, were that to be allowed, not turned into quasi criminal charges by a junta which is itself incompetent, full of cronyism and nepotism, and not exactly untainted by corruption, (I make no comment upon its competence).

 

 

Edited January 27, 2017 by JAG

[Wilsonandson]

8 hours ago, mike324 said:

 

I guess you do not know about Thai politics and its history. Prior to Yingluck it was the Dems in power, after the new election -- Yingluck was elected. Yingluck repeated the Rice Scheme (the same that was introduce under Thaksin) when she was PM, many organizations around the world have even warned her that she was repeating history and would be a major disaster. She says all the things are in place to prevent corruption. Her party kept on saying it is sustainable and will be free from corruption as checks are in place. Not only that, YIngluck was the head of the Rice Committee yet she has never attended a single meeting.

 

So the fault lies squarely on her.

 

So no, this has nothing to do with Thaksin.

Prior to the elections it was the Dems in power?

They stole power from the democratically elected People's Power Party. Yes I remember that. The new international airport shutdown by protesters. Now the rice scheme would have worked but China supported the coup makers who have made many financial deals with China since. I guess I'm talked about a conspiracy theory here. But the Chinese rice deal failing is what brought about the crisis.

 

Oh and to all posters you can be an expert at anything you want just type into google your specialised subject and add wiki. Then just read. Voila, your an expert.

[onthesoi]

5 hours ago, oldsailor35 said:

Something to note is that the present government are trying to accomplish exactly the same rice project.

 

Do you have a source for that? (other than Yingluck's FB page) ...which shows the present government are planning to strong arm the world rice market, stock spilling rice & paying inflated prices to farmers? 

 

Thai rice farmers are currently being paid 5 baht per kilo which barely covers their operating costs, so while the current government might be considering a subsidy or some other measures to ease their burden they are in no way copying the utterly reckless Shinawatra scheme.

 

 

[Wilsonandson]

11 minutes ago, onthesoi said:

 

Do you have a source for that? (other than Yingluck's FB page) ...which shows the present government are planning to strong arm the world rice market, stock spilling rice & paying inflated prices to farmers? 

 

Thai rice farmers are currently being paid 5 baht per kilo which barely covers their operating costs, so while the current government might be considering a subsidy or some other measures to ease their burden they are in no way copying the utterly reckless Shinawatra scheme.

 

 

Again it's China producing more rice domestically and therefore not importing as much rice from Thailand. So if the Thai government purchases some submarines maybe next year the Chinese will purchase more rice. The Chinese conspiracy theory.

 

There's no link it's all in my head.

[George Graham]

23 hours ago, scorecard said:

 

Are you trying to say she's brave, or what?

 

With a bill of 35Billion Baht hanging over her head and the possibility of her assets being confiscated are you really surprised. 

 

A different angle, perhaps she's being pushed to take a certain line.

 

And there's the impact of her case on two other high profile leeches and then more. 

 

Actually I wonder if she thinks these are social events resplendent with roses (red of course) etc.  

She is, quite obviously, smarter than you.

[George Graham]

11 hours ago, mike324 said:

 

I guess you do not know about Thai politics and its history. Prior to Yingluck it was the Dems in power, after the new election -- Yingluck was elected. Yingluck repeated the Rice Scheme (the same that was introduce under Thaksin) when she was PM, many organizations around the world have even warned her that she was repeating history and would be a major disaster. She says all the things are in place to prevent corruption. Her party kept on saying it is sustainable and will be free from corruption as checks are in place. Not only that, YIngluck was the head of the Rice Committee yet she has never attended a single meeting.

 

So the fault lies squarely on her.

 

So no, this has nothing to do with Thaksin.

Anyone who claims, by inference, to understand Thai politics, is a bloody idiot.

[473geo]

2 hours ago, onthesoi said:

 

Do you have a source for that? (other than Yingluck's FB page) ...which shows the present government are planning to strong arm the world rice market, stock spilling rice & paying inflated prices to farmers? 

 

Thai rice farmers are currently being paid 5 baht per kilo which barely covers their operating costs, so while the current government might be considering a subsidy or some other measures to ease their burden they are in no way copying the utterly reckless Shinawatra scheme.

 

 

Go out and ascertain the current rate being paid by the BAAC for 'stored on the farm' rice - government is already assisting the farmers who held their crops....well done the government

[scorecard]

8 hours ago, oldsailor35 said:

One Baerboxer is a very good example of this type of brainwashed individual.  who just keeps on spewing the same old crap.  Duhhhhh

I can't recall anything that validates your comment.

 

Baerboxer in the preceeding post writes about the specific truth and the specific realities of the matter at hand - no connection whatever to being brainwashed by anybody let alone by the dems.

 

Same old crap - not crap at all - he quotes the realities of the case.