New constitution a recipe for more problems, red shirts say

[rooster59]

New constitution a recipe for more problems, red shirts say

By THE NATION

 

Direk

 

CERTAIN clauses in the new charter are likely to renew political conflicts rather than encourage reconciliation, speakers a panel talk hosted by the red shirts said yesterday.

 

Direk Thungfang, a former senator who led the reconciliation committee for political reform and constitutional amendment in 2009, likened the new constitution to a beautiful person with heart disease. He arged that the clause that allows a non-MP to become prime minister would lead to new political conflict.

 

“The new government formed after the next election will certainly amend this clause. And there will be a new round of conflict and possibly another coup. The problem will be unending,” Direk said.

 

Full story: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/news/national/30305133

 

 

 

-- © Copyright The Nation 2017-01-28

[JAG]

Sounds like a challenge may have been subtly issued?

[mtls2005]

The "authorities" will control the Senate, and the red-shirts will not be able to muster any sort of majority in the lower house.

 

And the "organic" laws, including the 20 Year Happiness Plan, will prevent changes to the new "Constitution". 

 

All "problems" have been successfully gerry-mandered, and besides the "courts" stand ready to slap down any populism.

 

Not seeing any "problems" here?

 

And if there are just stage another coup.

[NCC1701A]

" And there will be a new round of conflict and possibly another coup. The problem will be unending,” Direk said."

 

Sad. Thais are too fat and lazy now driving their Toyota pickups and using their credit cards to furnish their new houses to do much about this.

[Wilsonandson]

5 minutes ago, NCC1701A said:

" And there will be a new round of conflict and possibly another coup. The problem will be unending,” Direk said."

 

Sad. Thais are too fat and lazy now driving their Toyota pickups and using their credit cards to furnish their new houses to do much about this.

What else can they do? Even if they vote in their chosen political party, that party is then given a neutral Prime Minister who may or may not agree with the majority party depending on the military picked senates approval of the majority parties idea or policies.

 

For example.

Pheu Thai wins the most seats in parliament and wants a war on drugs.

They have a house vote.

The vote passes and the PM consults the senate.

The senate disapproves.

The PM throws out the new bill.

No war on drugs.

[smedly]

“The new government formed after the next election will certainly amend this clause. And there will be a new round of conflict and possibly another coup. The problem will be unending,” Direk said.

 

 

Jesus these self destructive a'hols are already trying to change the constitution before  there is even a sniff of an election - they will not be allowed to make such changes - just like every other working democracy on the planet - such a trivial approach to changes are not possible, a fine example of that would be the USA, it is exactly why the political landscape has been setup the way it has - to prevent elected governments cherry picking at will and trying to dump parts of the constitution they don't like or want - it is now set in stone, as for a non MP being PM - it doesn't have to be that way at all, the elected government selects the PM they want

[smedly]

24 minutes ago, mtls2005 said:

The "authorities" will control the Senate, and the red-shirts will not be able to muster any sort of majority in the lower house.

 

And the "organic" laws, including the 20 Year Happiness Plan, will prevent changes to the new "Constitution". 

 

All "problems" have been successfully gerry-mandered, and besides the "courts" stand ready to slap down any populism.

 

Not seeing any "problems" here?

 

And if there are just stage another coup.

and who exactly are these redshirt people - who voted for them to even have an opinion on the matter

[baboon]

10 minutes ago, smedly said:

and who exactly are these redshirt people - who voted for them to even have an opinion on the matter

Who voted for you to have an opinion? Who voted for me to have an opinion? Who voted for the army to have an opinion and subsequently barge in and stage a coup? What are you talking about? 

[FritsSikkink]

50 minutes ago, Wilsonandson said:

What else can they do? Even if they vote in their chosen political party, that party is then given a neutral Prime Minister who may or may not agree with the majority party depending on the military picked senates approval of the majority parties idea or policies.

 

For example.

Pheu Thai wins the most seats in parliament and wants a war on drugs.

They have a house vote.

The vote passes and the PM consults the senate.

The senate disapproves.

The PM throws out the new bill.

No war on drugs.

they are full of "democracy" but when the majority voted for this constitution they want to cause trouble again

[StefanBBK]

Constitution change seems to be an easy, too easy thing. I would recommend constitution change to be only allowed with 75% of voter support. Possibly adding that 50% of eligible votes must be reached too, in case of low turnout.

[SaintLouisBlues]

7 minutes ago, StefanBBK said:

Constitution change seems to be an easy, too easy thing. I would recommend constitution change to be only allowed with 75% of voter support. Possibly adding that 50% of eligible votes must be reached too, in case of low turnout.

Would that be after a free and open discussion of all of the issues?

[Eligius]

13 minutes ago, FritsSikkink said:

they are full of "democracy" but when the majority voted for this constitution they want to cause trouble again

The problem is that we only have the junta's word for it that a majority voted in favour of the new Constitution. How do we know that  this is true? The junta would not allow free and open discussion - and God forbid, criticism - of the Constitution before the 'election', so are we really so naive as to trust the word of those same people when they say: 'Everything turned out well, boys. The majority of the Thais are with us on this one'!

 

Only a person with the political discernment and nous of a peanut would give any credence to what such a bunch of unelected,  provably mendacious, oppressive, dissent-silencing militarists would say. 

 

And by the way: the very fact that no critical discussion of the 'Constitution' was allowed before the vote in itself, immediately, invalidates the legitimacy of such a poll according to recognised international norms of democracy. The Constitution vote results are thus  totally meaningless, untrustworthy and illegitimate under international law.

 

But who amongst the Thais (including the Red Shirts) is actually standing up and saying: 'Look! Don't give us any more nonsense about the Constitution vote result, as that was a totally illegitimate, illegal poll from start to finish, with no independent adjudicators and guarantors. If you want to find out what the Thais think of the new 'Constitution', allow full, unfettered and critical discussion of it across all the media - on T.V., in the newspapers, on radio, in the streets, in all public forums of political debate. Then we can take the result of any subsequent vote on the Constitution seriously - not before!'

[JAG]

1 hour ago, smedly said:

and who exactly are these redshirt people - who voted for them to even have an opinion on the matter

Exactly, they don't have any guns, tanks, unexplained bulging bank accounts, houses worth many multiples of their salaries, they are not related or connected to any of the good people!

 

And if / when there is an election, and if / when they win it, (like they have the last three of them) then they will expect that they should have some say in things - the barefaced cheek of it!

 

It"s like, I don't know, giving the people some say in who governs them. What a ridiculous idea eh, Smedly?

[mtls2005]

Forgot to mention that the "Prime Minister" will be self-appointed selected chosen anointed...thus further diminishing any potential "problems".

 

On the plus side, Prayut will become the longest reigning PM in Thai history, a title I'm sure he will only mention in passing a few thousand times, along with the fact that he didn't really want the job, and the sacrifices he's making.

 

This is not Meechai's first rodeo; this is the third constitution he's worked on (at least), so you can be sure he's eliminated any possibility of the un-educated masses getting power. I mean the bloody thing is like over one hundred pages, along with close to 300 "articles". Not to mention the accompanying courts, committees, over-seers, organic laws all meant to avoid "problems".

 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 28, 2017 by mtls2005

[scorecard]

2 hours ago, smedly said:

and who exactly are these redshirt people - who voted for them to even have an opinion on the matter

 

Agree; who are they? Are they officially recognized at law or in terms of an organized group of people with a specific manifesto and goals aligned to developing Thailand with equal opportunity, equal rights and equal justice, and much improved education? 

 

Why did their non-elected leader not make this statement? 

Edited January 28, 2017 by scorecard

[sweatalot]

The only recipe for trouble is the existence of the red shirts

[Reigntax]

3 hours ago, smedly said:

“The new government formed after the next election will certainly amend this clause. And there will be a new round of conflict and possibly another coup. The problem will be unending,” Direk said.

 

 

Jesus these self destructive a'hols are already trying to change the constitution before  there is even a sniff of an election - they will not be allowed to make such changes - just like every other working democracy on the planet - such a trivial approach to changes are not possible, a fine example of that would be the USA, it is exactly why the political landscape has been setup the way it has - to prevent elected governments cherry picking at will and trying to dump parts of the constitution they don't like or want - it is now set in stone, as for a non MP being PM - it doesn't have to be that way at all, the elected government selects the PM they want

 

No changes to the US constitution? Only if you exclude the first 27 changes.

 

More interesting is that 2 of the changes were for changes to election of the head of state and a change to have senators elected by popular vote.

 

Seems to be exactly what the article refers to as a problem?

Edited January 28, 2017 by Reigntax

[ikke]

3 hours ago, smedly said:

and who exactly are these redshirt people - who voted for them to even have an opinion on the matter

The majority of Thai people voted for them !

You should ask your question about the Junta : Who voted for them ? Nobody is the answer . 

[BlindMagician]

They'll never "reconcile".

[elgordo38]

4 hours ago, NCC1701A said:

" And there will be a new round of conflict and possibly another coup. The problem will be unending,” Direk said."

 

Sad. Thais are too fat and lazy now driving their Toyota pickups and using their credit cards to furnish their new houses to do much about this.

As most things in life this to shall end. Credit is not a finite process. 

[elgordo38]

4 hours ago, smedly said:

and who exactly are these redshirt people - who voted for them to even have an opinion on the matter

Love ya smedly but everyone is entitled to an opinion. Its one of the few luxuries we have left in life. In the not to distant future most opinions are best kept to ourselves. The new world order. 

[elgordo38]

8 minutes ago, BlindMagician said:

They'll never "reconcile".

The purpose is not to reconcile but to rule with a velvet glove. 

[Becker]

1 hour ago, sweatalot said:

The only recipe for trouble is the existence of the red shirts

Yep, that certainly is the biggest problem for the elite. No red shirts = no competition at the trough.

[rtco]

Two words that the NCPO do not understand, or want to understand are RECONCILIATION and DEMOCRACY.  And they are also colour blind when it comes to RED.

[bobmac10]

3 hours ago, sweatalot said:

The only recipe for trouble is the existence of the red shirts

Ignorance is bliss

[scorecard]

1 hour ago, rtco said:

Two words that the NCPO do not understand, or want to understand are RECONCILIATION and DEMOCRACY.  And they are also colour blind when it comes to RED.

 

 Perhaps you mean the reds are blind when it comes to reconciliation and democracy.

[jerojero]

What next election? Think it's going to be a long time before that happens. Just saying.

[George Graham]

6 hours ago, smedly said:

“The new government formed after the next election will certainly amend this clause. And there will be a new round of conflict and possibly another coup. The problem will be unending,” Direk said.

 

 

Jesus these self destructive a'hols are already trying to change the constitution before  there is even a sniff of an election - they will not be allowed to make such changes - just like every other working democracy on the planet - such a trivial approach to changes are not possible, a fine example of that would be the USA, it is exactly why the political landscape has been setup the way it has - to prevent elected governments cherry picking at will and trying to dump parts of the constitution they don't like or want - it is now set in stone, as for a non MP being PM - it doesn't have to be that way at all, the elected government selects the PM they want

Smedders,  the constitution has already been changed. And pleeeeeze - "just like every other working democracy" I'd love to ask you the question, but in these, let's say, sensitive times, I cannot.

[George Graham]

6 hours ago, smedly said:

and who exactly are these redshirt people - who voted for them to even have an opinion on the matter

If my memory serves me right, these redshirt people are largely, though not exclusively, comprised of THAI PEOPLE who wanted to choose who governs THEIR country.

[George Graham]

5 hours ago, SaintLouisBlues said:

Would that be after a free and open discussion of all of the issues?

Or perhaps just have a coup and rip up the constitution, I believe it's been done before.