zaphod reborn Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, Banana7 said: You're absolutely wrong. She did not do her job. She doesn't get to decide which laws are upheld or not to uphold, it's not her choice. The President has the authority to direct her to uphold the law. Her dismissal was approved by counsel of the Department of Justice, completely legal and with cause. That's misleading. Lawyers have an ethical obligation not to pursue frivolous actions or defenses. FRCP Rule 11. That overrides an AG's duty to obey an order of the executive department. However, she serves at the whim of the current President, and Trump is within his powers to relieve her of her duties. Edited January 31, 2017 by zaphod reborn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NanLaew Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 (edited) 2 hours ago, webfact said: "I think that's a further demonstration of how politicized our legal system has become," said Stephen Miller, a policy adviser to Trump, in an interview on MSNBC. Huh? Like Trump isn't just itching to get his flavour of judge on the Supreme Court as soon as legally possible... and sooner if otherwise? Notable local election results buried in the hubris of Trump's election, in the 'better red than dead' state of Texas, both Dallas and Houston joined Austin, El Paso and San Antonio with Democrat adminstrations and/or judiciary. The mid-terms are going to be a cracking show! Edited January 31, 2017 by NanLaew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ezzra Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 1 hour ago, maewang99 said: Trump is nuts. Yes but the good kind of nuts.... the kind Nor Obama of any other had the cojones to do it and keep their election's promises....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaywardWind Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 25 minutes ago, localczar said: Trump is on a major rip...this is damn fine entertainment...and cheap too. People (Americans and otherwise) are going to die as a direct result of these orders. You consider that as entertainment as well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NanLaew Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 20 minutes ago, lovelomsak said: getting rid of a treasonist lawyer seems justifiable to me Getting rid of what now? trea·son ˈtrēzən/ noun the crime of betraying one's country, especially by attempting to kill the sovereign or overthrow the government. "they were convicted of treason" synonyms: treachery, disloyalty, betrayal, faithlessness; the action of betraying someone or something. plural noun: treasons "doubt is the ultimate treason against faith" synonyms: treachery, disloyalty, betrayal, faithlessness; historical the crime of murdering someone to whom the murderer owed allegiance, such as a master or husband. noun: petty treason; plural noun: petty treasons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintLouisBlues Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 Just now, WaywardWind said: People (Americans and otherwise) are going to die as a direct result of these orders. You consider that as entertainment as well? It beats wringing my hands and stamping my foot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NanLaew Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 2 minutes ago, SaintLouisBlues said: It beats wringing my hands and stamping my foot There will still be much wailing and gnashing of teeth though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintLouisBlues Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 1 minute ago, NanLaew said: There will still be much wailing and gnashing of teeth though... I prefer that old saying "Life is a tragedy to those that feel and a comedy to those that think" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovelomsak Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 the action of betraying someone or something. plural noun: treasons "doubt is the ultimate treason against faith" synonyms: treachery, disloyalty, betrayal, faithlessness; I feel that,s right She betrayed her President and her authority Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rwdrwdrwd Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 1 hour ago, Ace of Pop said: So Trump is Nuts .Most constructive!!.What is he supposed to do ,just let these anochists run people into the ground Obama Style.Peace at any price is not what America was built onA few positive ideas from you Lefty posters would make a ChangeOf I was him I'd just piss another like Branson n enjoy my wealth Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect My suggestion is that he focuses on the education of US citizens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NanLaew Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 12 minutes ago, SaintLouisBlues said: I prefer that old saying "Life is a tragedy to those that feel and a comedy to those that think" Oh yes... pithy. 8 minutes ago, lovelomsak said: the action of betraying someone or something. plural noun: treasons "doubt is the ultimate treason against faith" synonyms: treachery, disloyalty, betrayal, faithlessness; I feel that,s right She betrayed her President and her authority Well you would, wouldn't you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banana7 Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 (edited) 32 minutes ago, zaphod reborn said: That's misleading. Lawyers have an ethical obligation not to pursue frivolous actions or defenses. FRCP Rule 11. That overrides an AG's duty to obey an order of the executive department. However, she serves at the whim of the current President, and Trump is within his powers to relieve her of her duties. It is 100% accurate, not misleading. See for yourself at: https://www.justice.gov/jmd/organization-mission-and-functions-manual-attorney-general For your convenience, she had a duty to "Perform or supervise the performance of other duties required by statute or Executive Order." and she refused to enforce the immigration executive order, a lawful and necessary federal order. That is a betrayal of her office as stated by Stephen Miller, advisor to the President. Edited January 31, 2017 by Banana7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Opl Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 (edited) Bannon Is Drafting The Executive Orders & Using Putin's Playbook. Trump's Just The Signing Hand "Bannon needs to be under a constant microscope and his role needs to be in the forefront because he is using Putin’s methods of propaganda.. He is forging a civilian shock troop ready to commit violence and accept atrocities." " The orders have come so quickly, and from seemingly out of nowhere, that aides sometimes aren’t even sure which actions Trump will sign until they cross his desk. “He was determined to show people that he’s getting to work from Day One,” a source told Politico. " http://www.dailykos.com/story/2017/1/26/1625465/-Bannon-Is-Drafting-The-Executive-Orders-Using-Putin-s-Playbook-Trump-s-Just-The-Signing-Hand "State Department dissent memo: ‘We are better than this ban’ This Ban Does Not Achieve Its Aims--And Will Likely Be Counterproductive " This memo is pointing out, besides the unconstitutional nature and ineffectiveness of the Travel Ban executive order taken by Trump, its various misdeeds (including economic), and recommending other methods to contain the terrorist risk. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/josh-rogin/wp/2017/01/30/state-department-dissent-memo-we-are-better-than-this-ban/?utm_term=.9f86c770632b " The memo argues that the executive order is poorly conceived and poorly drafted and that its implementation will damage U.S. relationships with Muslim countries, U.S. standing in the Muslim world and the U.S. fight against terrorism and radicalization both at home and abroad" https://www.washingtonpost.com/r/2010-2019/WashingtonPost/2017/01/30/Editorial-Opinion/Graphics/Draft_Dissent_on_EOSec3.pdf Edited January 31, 2017 by Opl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NanLaew Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 4 minutes ago, Opl said: "State Department dissent memo: ‘We are better than this ban’ This Ban Does Not Achieve Its Aims--And Will Likely Be Counterproductive " https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/josh-rogin/wp/2017/01/30/state-department-dissent-memo-we-are-better-than-this-ban/?utm_term=.9f86c770632b " The memo argues that the executive order is poorly conceived and poorly drafted and that its implementation will damage U.S. relationships with Muslim countries, U.S. standing in the Muslim world and the U.S. fight against terrorism and radicalization both at home and abroad" https://www.washingtonpost.com/r/2010-2019/WashingtonPost/2017/01/30/Editorial-Opinion/Graphics/Draft_Dissent_on_EOSec3.pdf Not to mention the non-Muslim countries that have already publicly voiced their reservations. Poorly conceived and drafted indeed as evidenced by the flip-flopping between the DOHS, the (headless) State Department and the White House when clarification on US visas, green cards and the status of dual-nationals was sought by the UK's Foreign Minister. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NanLaew Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 20 minutes ago, Banana7 said: It is 100% accurate, not misleading. See for yourself at: https://www.justice.gov/jmd/organization-mission-and-functions-manual-attorney-general For your convenience, she had a duty to "Perform or supervise the performance of other duties required by statute or Executive Order." and she refused to enforce the immigration executive order, a lawful and necessary federal order. That is a betrayal of her office as stated by Stephen Miller, advisor to the President. Betrayal of her office my arse. Trump feels betrayed, end of. A Constitutional challenge within the first 2 weeks at the helm? Not bad going. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lannarebirth Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 It looks like the Republicans are letting Trump dig his own grave. Heads they win, tails they win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zaphod reborn Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 29 minutes ago, Banana7 said: It is 100% accurate, not misleading. See for yourself at: https://www.justice.gov/jmd/organization-mission-and-functions-manual-attorney-general For your convenience, she had a duty to "Perform or supervise the performance of other duties required by statute or Executive Order." and she refused to enforce the immigration executive order, a lawful and necessary federal order. That is a betrayal of her office as stated by Stephen Miller, advisor to the President. You're totally wrong. Where does it state that an AG can violate the ethical duties owed to their respective bar association in carrying out the duties of their office or carry out an order that violates the Constitution? She can be disbarred for doing so. Here's a recent example of an opinion piece on the issue. http://www.rawstory.com/2016/02/texas-attorney-general-could-be-disbarred-for-telling-clerks-to-violate-us-constitution Nice try, but you obviously don't understand that an executive can't order someone to violate the law (ie, the Constitution) or ethical rules of their profession. An executive order can only be carried out, to the extent that the AG determines that the order is lawful. If it violates the Constitution, she has an ethical, legal, professional and moral duty to disobey the executive. Remember, she takes an oath of office to uphold the Constitution, and an oath of the federal bar association to act within the bounds of the law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaywardWind Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, Banana7 said: It is 100% accurate, not misleading. See for yourself at: https://www.justice.gov/jmd/organization-mission-and-functions-manual-attorney-general For your convenience, she had a duty to "Perform or supervise the performance of other duties required by statute or Executive Order." and she refused to enforce the immigration executive order, a lawful and necessary federal order. That is a betrayal of her office as stated by Stephen Miller, advisor to the President. You mean this Stephen Miller? Bannon's sidekick? The same Stephen Miller who was a chief architect of the repugnant executive orders? The right wing racist in the White House? You need better sources. Incidentally, I do suppose that you have a valid reason for only quoting the last of the six general responsibilities of the AG, leaving out the remainder, especially #1: " Represent the United States in legal matters." Whether you like it or not, Sally Yates had the right, indeed the duty, to decline to defend what she judged to be illegal orders from the White House. By the way, I am still waiting for you to identify the the source for your assertion several hours ago that the Department of Justice had approved the executive orders. Edited January 31, 2017 by WaywardWind Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wwest5829 Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 3 hours ago, Banana7 said: Trump fired her based on results. She refused to produce results as he directed. Any and every employer has the right to fire an employee who doesn't produce the correct result. If you're my employee, a flower picker, I tell you to go out pick 10 red tulips, and you return and say I don't want to pick tulips because of (whatever)... - your fired. Nobody will stand-up for a insubordinate employee. Would be funny if the thinking was not so off base. Employees? Federal employees work for the citizens of the United States. The Donald will learn, governing is quite different than running a private company. He in fact, is the employee in chief and himself is subject to being overruled by the other two branches of government or possibly being fired by his bosses...the citizens of the US. You would think an intelligent individual would recognize he did not receive majority of eligible voter support and the lack of approval ratings ... oh, right, intelligent... 3 hours ago, Banana7 said: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baerboxer Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 4 hours ago, Prbkk said: An early impeachment looking ever more likely. 6 months and he'll be gone. If the liberal democrats can conspire one, and think they can get away with it. What then, give it to Hilary the Innocent as best runner up? Or promote Pence first and then try and do the same to him, then give it to Hilary. Or will it be another election in which Hilary can again cheat to get nominated and get even more money for the family fund foundation. What is looking more obvious, and not just in the US, is this new liberal democrat PC tactic of refusing to accept any results they don't like and then be as disruptive and decisive as possible. The few wanting to dictate to the many. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovelomsak Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 16 hours ago, Baerboxer said: If the liberal democrats can conspire one, and think they can get away with it. What then, give it to Hilary the Innocent as best runner up? Or promote Pence first and then try and do the same to him, then give it to Hilary. Or will it be another election in which Hilary can again cheat to get nominated and get even more money for the family fund foundation. What is looking more obvious, and not just in the US, is this new liberal democrat PC tactic of refusing to accept any results they don't like and then be as disruptive and decisive as possible. The few wanting to dictate to the many. I know this sounds like broken record but seems Democratics in America use the same way,s as Thai Democrati,s to keep power Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baerboxer Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 Just now, lovelomsak said: I know this sounds like broken record but seems Democratics in America use the same way,s as Thai Democrati,s to keep power It's seems any political party or any country that feels the need to include democratic in their title - isn't! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prbkk Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 ...and this is only Episode 1 , Series 1. But he still gets to say "you're fired". God save us all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Usernames Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 4 hours ago, WaywardWind said: She is most definitely NOT his employee. You really need to read up on how the USG works. She is an independent officer of the government, sworn to uphold the Constitution and US law, not respond to directions from any other source. I am still waiting for the identity of the Department of Justice official who you claim approved Trump's order. Utterly clueless comment. The AG position, acting or otherwise, is appointive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
user82374298374 Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 5 hours ago, zaphod reborn said: The 120 day immigration ban is obviously unconstitutional, because the President can't use an executive order to change an act of Congress (that being the 1965 law that set immigration quotas). You have no idea what you're talking about. See Section 212(f) of the Immigration and Nationality Act: "(f) Whenever the President finds that the entry of any aliens or of any class of aliens into the United States would be detrimental to the interests of the United States, he may by proclamation, and for such period as he shall deem necessary, suspend the entry of all aliens or any class of aliens as immigrants or nonimmigrants, or impose on the entry of aliens any restrictions he may deem to be appropriate." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpeakeasyThai Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 4 hours ago, maewang99 said: Trump is nuts. Wish it was that simple. He's also very dangerous in an uncertain world. Hopefully he will he impeached or taken out of office one way or another very swiftly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banana7 Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 (edited) 2 hours ago, WaywardWind said: You mean this Stephen Miller? Bannon's sidekick? The same Stephen Miller who was a chief architect of the repugnant executive orders? The right wing racist in the White House? You need better sources. Incidentally, I do suppose that you have a valid reason for only quoting the last of the six general responsibilities of the AG, leaving out the remainder, especially #1: " Represent the United States in legal matters." Whether you like it or not, Sally Yates had the right, indeed the duty, to decline to defend what she judged to be illegal orders from the White House. By the way, I am still waiting for you to identify the the source for your assertion several hours ago that the Department of Justice had approved the executive orders. As I indicated, Stephen Miller I quoted, is the adviser to the President. He is the person that indicated that The Office of Legal Counsel which is an Office within the Department of Justice, reviewed and approved the immigration executive order. There are many lawyers in the Office, and the one that signed the opinion is unimportant. Why do you need a specific person's name? The AG has duty to the citizens of USA and Yates lost her job as AG for cause, according to the President. Usually, a person can only be fired from their job by their boss. So it seems to me, Trump was Yate's boss. Trump, as Chief Executive and the President not only has the duty to enforce laws, but also the authority to decide how to do so. Executive authority to take action is thus “fairly wide,” as former INS Commissioner Doris Meissner indicated. The Supreme Court has emphasized the federal government’s “broad discretion,” which includes consideration of “immediate human concerns.” Read more here: https://www.nilc.org/issues/immigration-enforcement/execauthorityimm/ You demonstrate little or no understanding of the USA federal law or of the Constitution. Here, read this and please return with a reasonable intelligent opinion: https://www.uscis.gov/ilink/docView/SLB/HTML/SLB/act.html Furthermore Trump has the authority vested in him as President by the Constitution and laws of the United States of America, including the Immigration and Nationality Act (INA), 8 U.S.C. 1101 et seq., and section 301 of title 3, United States Code, to protect the American people from terrorist attacks by foreign nationals admitted to the United States. Edited January 31, 2017 by Banana7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alocacoc Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 (edited) 4 hours ago, PatOngo said: American politics becoming as entertaining as Thai politics. Yeah, I love it. Everyday new news :) Hope Trump will install the sanctions against Iran asap. Edited January 31, 2017 by alocacoc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpeakeasyThai Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 (edited) 5 hours ago, Banana7 said: Wonderful! She should have been fired during the Obama administration, a long time ago. Trump has guts to get the job done and make sure people are doing their job. Yet another opportunity to utilise yet another fully qualified family member to replace her? Edited January 31, 2017 by SpeakeasyThai Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintLouisBlues Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 2 minutes ago, SpeakeasyThai said: Maybe he can utilise yet another fully qualified family member to replace her? I understand he has a sister who's a judge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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