Who Get Photo Credit?

[smx1313]

So here's the deal.

I had a photo shot on Sunday night. I concivied a complex set using mirrors.

Because of the mirrors, the model was able to take a shot of herself on her cell phone.

The shot was pretty much the same as mine, and her shot was great! It was exactly what I was going for.

So it was my concept, my MU/wardrobe, my lighting, my set and she gets a great shot on her cell.

Hey, I don't care if she gets TFP's, I don't even care that she took the shot on her cell.

But I have this nagging feeling that if she posts the photo on her site (and she will), I should get a photo credit.

I've hinted at it, like making a joke, but the more I think about it...

She's emailing the photo to people, hyping herself as a model, no mention of me.

Malicious? No. Spacey? Yes.

If this was a movie set and I was a DP with multipal camera operators, I would get the credit.

Whatcha think?

Edited December 12, 2006 by smx1313

[ourmanflint]

it's a tough one... I've taken many photographs before for photographers in studios etc, when I was an assistant, and they always got the credit because it was their shoot! But legally I think whoever actually takes the picture is the copyright owner unless this was specifically agreed beforehand that it was not.

[paulsworld]

Bigger concern...if your shot is less valuable than a shot from a cell phone I think you have problems. Don't wanna sound harsh, but there should be no contest between a professionaly posed, lit, set up shot and a shot from a camera phone...even with the best camera phone on the market today.

Personally no one would get a similar enough shot on their cell phone to a full on set up shot from me (possibly they could get something similar in a grip and grin cheesy snapshot of some friends I fire off at a wedding, but I don't really care about them getting that and I'm not going to fight for artistic credit there)...

I don't really understand...was this a paid job or a TFP? Either way wouldn't she be getting real files from you of quality pics? Or was this something where you hired someone out for your portfolio? Regardless I wouldn't have my name put next to a shot from a cell phone...even if it was close...still not me and I don't want my name anywhere near it

Paul

[smx1313]

Bigger concern...if your shot is less valuable than a shot from a cell phone I think you have problems. Don't wanna sound harsh, but there should be no contest between a professionaly posed, lit, set up shot and a shot from a camera phone...even with the best camera phone on the market today.

Personally no one would get a similar enough shot on their cell phone to a full on set up shot from me (possibly they could get something similar in a grip and grin cheesy snapshot of some friends I fire off at a wedding, but I don't really care about them getting that and I'm not going to fight for artistic credit there)...

I don't really understand...was this a paid job or a TFP? Either way wouldn't she be getting real files from you of quality pics? Or was this something where you hired someone out for your portfolio? Regardless I wouldn't have my name put next to a shot from a cell phone...even if it was close...still not me and I don't want my name anywhere near it

Paul

Hi Paul,

You bring up some very good points so I guess I should explain a bit about my process.

My work shows up in a lot of experimental and underground film festivals.

I create a very grainy, low-tech dark look. I use damaged film, disposable cameras, severe under/over exposure, harsh lighting.

It aint pretty.

So when I saw the cell phone shot I actually liked what I saw. It was very much a look I would go for.

Now the photo is being emailed around to people so it got me to wondering about the credit.

[astral]

I assume you and she signed a contract before the photo shoot to cover these matters..............

[smx1313]

I assume you and she signed a contract before the photo shoot to cover these matters..............

Of course not.

Boy, I could not have figured that something like the model snapping a dupe of my photo happening..

[paulsworld]

There's two things. One, always have all kinds of stuff in your contract...read other's, copy, etc...other people have run into way more stuff than you could ever think about. Pay to be a member of a pro site and get access to more experienced folks. I have a no stealing my shots clause and a no other photographer stipulation in my contract. Of course I let other folks snap with their P&S day of, but if someone's slowing me down and asking everyone to look at them I quote the contract and WILL walk off if the person doesn't stop. I love letting others shoot though as it just makes my pictures look better every time.

Second thing, if you liked what she got and were surprised by the results then it sounds like it's not your picture . If she just shot something but you liked the results remember it and use it again sometime...but by your own admission you had no idea the shot would come out like that...but now that it's kind of cool you want credit? Set it up again and do it yourself. She took that pic for all intents and purposes and got a shot you weren't going to get otherwise...not your shot. It'd be the same thing if you setup some shot and someone shot color and cross processed and you didn't know the technique or someone showed up with a Holgaroid.

Paul

[Chang_paarp]

Don't worry about the photo credit it is a lost cause at this point in time, send her an invoice for technical support, hire of your props, mirrors, set up time..... In the future use contracts.

[smx1313]

Paul,

Once again you bring up some good points, so I clairify a bit more.

I was suprised not because I saw a look I liked and had not expected to see, but because it was

the look I was going for.

I have not processed the film, but when I do, I expect it to be very much in line with what I saw.

on her cell phone.

All in all, I'm going to let it go. She really likes how it looks and is telling everybody about it so what the hel_l, I'm glad someone likes my weirdo work.

Still, no answers as to who should get credit?

It's a stumper.

If it was a film set she'd get a "camera operator" credit, I would get the Director of Photography credit.

[paulsworld]

the bottom line typically in matters of ownership in photography go to the person who took the picture. Contracts can divide that ownership up a bit, but in cases where things have really been tested it comes down to the person who clicked the image.

I don't know why you still don't have your film developed and shown to her. Possibly she'd like yours even better if you had, say, a high quality medium format film scan at 100 megs or something. Something with way more dynamic range, contrast, saturation, etc. She could be showing "your" work as you initially intended. Get yours developed and see if it came out better. If so, problem solved. If not...maybe you can assist her on future shoots Just kidding.

Paul