"Forget it," London tells Scots who want second independence vote

[evadgib]

We covered this ol' chestnut weeks ago.

[evadgib]

Link to all things Brexit:

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/policies/brexit

[jpinx]

4 minutes ago, evadgib said:

Link to all things Brexit:

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/policies/brexit

Don't clutter the thread up with facts -- when all everyone wants to do is vent their spleen and posit their favourite theory. 

[RuamRudy]

12 minutes ago, jpinx said:

It can continue if all the people in it agree on the breakup

Then we should have had a EU wide vote on whether UK could leave - that is the equivalent.

[jpinx]

2 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

The we should have had a EU wide vote on whether UK could leave - that is the equivalent.

Do try to keep up old man :)

 

 

[evadgib]

Humour from the McKremlin :)

 

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-38845568

[RuamRudy]

5 minutes ago, jpinx said:

Do try to keep up old man :)

 

 

Ah, I never noticed that someone else came to the same logical conclusion. Apologies for the repetition.

 

Just for clarification, you want to keep the terms that give you the result that you want, but reject terms that may not?

[jpinx]

1 minute ago, RuamRudy said:

Ah, I never noticed that someone else came to the same logical conclusion. Apologies for the repetition.

 

Just for clarification, you want to keep the terms that give you the result that you want, but reject terms that may not?

The result would have to be filtered through at least 50 threads on TVF and then a TVF poll taken :)

[jpinx]

3 minutes ago, evadgib said:

Humour from the McKremlin :)

 

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-38845568

If the Scottish Greens are "lentil-munching sandal-wearing watermelons" --  one wonders what he calls the SNP !! 

[dunroaming]

Perhaps Sturgeon should just sit on the fence for now and see how things pan out of the next couple of years.  The UK is in the EU until then and what happens next in Europe is uncertain to say the least.  It may just be that the EU won't look so attractive in the future and in the meantime another referendum just limits Scotland's future options.

[jpinx]

Just now, dunroaming said:

Perhaps Sturgeon should just sit on the fence for now and see how things pan out of the next couple of years.  The UK is in the EU until then and what happens next in Europe is uncertain to say the least.  It may just be that the EU won't look so attractive in the future and in the meantime another referendum just limits Scotland's future options.

Megalomaniacs can not "sit on the fence", and she's got a problem with being a one-trick-pony.  She has no clue how to run the country, only shout for independence

[RuamRudy]

12 minutes ago, dunroaming said:

Perhaps Sturgeon should just sit on the fence for now and see how things pan out of the next couple of years.  The UK is in the EU until then and what happens next in Europe is uncertain to say the least.  It may just be that the EU won't look so attractive in the future and in the meantime another referendum just limits Scotland's future options.

 

But she has to be seen, in Scotland, to be showing leadership and vision - Scots clearly want to remain in the EU so she has to offer them hope that she can deliver that goal.

 

Personally, I think much of the hatred she receives from our brexit friends is because they are swayed by the daily attacks on her in the Mail, Express and Telegraph, each of which are fervent defenders of the English empire, routinely apopleptic at the thought of any lesser subjects having ideas above their station.

[The Dark Lord]

18 minutes ago, jpinx said:

If the Scottish Greens are "lentil-munching sandal-wearing watermelons" --  one wonders what he calls the SNP !! 

Possibly and as one of my sweaty sock chums often referred to his fellow countrymen, "haggis munching, caber tossing, kilt wearing Dunder heeds"

[jpinx]

5 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

 

But she has to be seen, in Scotland, to be showing leadership and vision - Scots clearly want to remain in the EU so she has to offer them hope that she can deliver that goal.

 

Personally, I think much of the hatred she receives from our brexit friends is because they are swayed by the daily attacks on her in the Mail, Express and Telegraph, each of which are fervent defenders of the English empire, routinely apopleptic at the thought of any lesser subjects having ideas above their station.

Ahhhhh!!  I *love* the smell of apoplexy before breakfast ! 

 

You're right, RR --  she is a one-trick-pony and has no clue how to lead the country without a prominently singular issue to write on her banner.  I have said many times that Scotland could go it alone, but not with that clown at the helm.  

[dunroaming]

3 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

 

But she has to be seen, in Scotland, to be showing leadership and vision - Scots clearly want to remain in the EU so she has to offer them hope that she can deliver that goal.

 

Personally, I think much of the hatred she receives from our brexit friends is because they are swayed by the daily attacks on her in the Mail, Express and Telegraph, each of which are fervent defenders of the English empire, routinely apopleptic at the thought of any lesser subjects having ideas above their station.

I take your point but she isn't showing vision, just knee jerk reaction to her failed attempt to get her way with May.  Leadership should mean getting the best for Scotland and sometimes that means sitting on your hands until you really can see the wood for the trees.  I actually think that if there was another referendum in Scotland at the moment the people would once again reject independence.  then she completely screwed.

[RuamRudy]

20 minutes ago, jpinx said:

Ahhhhh!!  I *love* the smell of apoplexy before breakfast ! 

 

You're right, RR --  she is a one-trick-pony and has no clue how to lead the country without a prominently singular issue to write on her banner.  I have said many times that Scotland could go it alone, but not with that clown at the helm.  

 

I have said a few times also that the SNP is the transport, not the destination.

[ddavidovsky]

I like this new fashion of no-bs straight-talking from politicians. It's incisive and honest and saves time.

[RuamRudy]

4 minutes ago, ddavidovsky said:

I like this new fashion of no-bs straight-talking from politicians. It's incisive and honest and saves time.

 

I would normally disagree as I think that, in general, politics are being reduced to populist soundbites, but in this case I am all for English Tory MPs being unnecessarily antagonistic.

[elgordo38]

11 hours ago, webfact said:

"a democratic outrage"

I think this is what we are all living through today. 

[jpinx]

2 minutes ago, elgordo38 said:

I think this is what we are all living through today. 

Tell that to the Americans

[elgordo38]

1 minute ago, jpinx said:

Tell that to the Americans

51% are well aware of this fact. 49% think like it says in the bible somewhere that someone will rise up out of nowhere and become the undisputed demon to rule the world. Its been years since I read the bible so I am playing this by ear.

[jpinx]

1 hour ago, RuamRudy said:

 

I would normally disagree as I think that, in general, politics are being reduced to populist soundbites, but in this case I am all for English Tory MPs being unnecessarily antagonistic.

Soundbites -- like "Ich bin ein Berliner", "Peace in our time", "We will never surrender"........

Nothing's changed, it's the same old format -- great oratory but little substance. 

[nontabury]

3 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

Your arithmetic is spot on - it is the actualité that escapes Baerboxer.

That's if you believe the population of the U.K. Is only 65.5. I've read estimates of 75 million, Personnally I've no idea.

 

As to the number of M.P.s that Scotland has.Read up on the late Scottish politician Tam Dalyel regarding the West Lothian question.

[nontabury]

3 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

 

Sturgeon doesn't want to dictate to the rest of the UK any more than any other Scot does - but we want an equal say of our future because that is what happens in an equal partnership.

But your not asking for an equal partnership, what you want to see is the tail wagging the dog.

[RuamRudy]

5 minutes ago, nontabury said:

But your not asking for an equal partnership, what you want to see is the tail wagging the dog.

I appreciate that, from your perspective, we are the junior partner and should do as we are told, however I do not agree that an English want is worth more than a Scottish one - but let's not return to the whole UK / regional thing because we know that that will achieve nothing.

 

I am sure that I told you before that I would not want to stand in the way of the English securing their chosen goal of departing the EU, however the Scots have even more emphatically chosen to remain. Clearly the situation is only going to create more tension.

[baboon]

3 hours ago, dunroaming said:

I take your point but she isn't showing vision, just knee jerk reaction to her failed attempt to get her way with May.  Leadership should mean getting the best for Scotland and sometimes that means sitting on your hands until you really can see the wood for the trees.  I actually think that if there was another referendum in Scotland at the moment the people would once again reject independence.  then she completely screwed.

Not at all - I'll wager she would sweep it to the side and simply demand another referendum due to discrepancies. Then demand to know why not. Then state it is because Westminster knows they would lose because the Scottish people are on the SNP's side and as a result, a referendum is needed...

 

Which poster was it who compared her to an irritating terrier that keeps coming over and humping your leg...?

[3NUMBAS]

Let the sweatys commit suicide and give us a laugh when they all starve and start fighting amongst themselves

[George FmplesdaCosteedback]

15 hours ago, webfact said:

While Sturgeon says she wants Scottish independence, she will also seek to avoid triggering another referendum that she would lose; public opinion polls show support for Scottish independence is still at around 45 percent as it was in 2014.

The recent polls have shown they are not a reliable indicator of what will happen, but it is all they have to go on. Sturgeon is a cold fish that wants her own way all the time. Maybe when the Scottish MPs are excluded from voting on exclusively English affairs at Westminster she might have more credibility. She seems to think if she shouts long enough and loud enough her demands will be met.

Personally, since realistically the Scots just can't afford to leave the UK, I think she should get her 2nd vote.

If she loses, bye bye to the Krankies, Salmond and Sturgeon. If she wins bye bye and good luck Scotland. Win - win situation.

Oh! and remember Scotland you need to pay your share of the UK national debt before you go.

 

 

 

[George FmplesdaCosteedback]

13 hours ago, Kasset Tak said:

When the Scots voted on the referendum 2014 the "stay" side with the backing of the parliament (located in England) talked about the difficulties Scotland would get with staying in EU if leaving UK... Then England voted to voted to leave EU while Scotland voted to stay and now the English people say that the Scots don't have the choice to leave UK!?
If Brexit would have been on the table at the 2014 referendum then Scotland would have voted to leave UK!

The Scots were made aware of the possibilities at the time and voted to stay in the UK come what may (no pun intended).

[George FmplesdaCosteedback]

3 hours ago, baboon said:

Not at all - I'll wager she would sweep it to the side and simply demand another referendum due to discrepancies. Then demand to know why not. Then state it is because Westminster knows they would lose because the Scottish people are on the SNP's side and as a result, a referendum is needed...

 

Which poster was it who compared her to an irritating terrier that keeps coming over and humping your leg...?

A Highland Terrier?

I thought the SNP had a minority government at Holyrood, propped up by the tree huggers.