NeoDinosaw Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 22 hours ago, Grouse said: Good man, Bercow ? Please read what Bercow said ........ " I feel very strongly that our opposition to racism and to sexism and our support for equality before the law and an independent judiciary are hugely important considerations," Contrary to the introduction to this story, he did NOT cite "Trump's temporary immigration ban as a factor. " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yardrunner Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 19 hours ago, Lokie said: As speaker of the house Mr Bercow's job is to act neutral and ensure fair play etc. He has no business giving a statement on his personal opinion of President Trump nor any of his policies and no one is interested in Bercow's opinion either. After he has been called in for attitude adjustment all will be well, the little man will carry on with his duties as per his remit and the US president will address both houses, such as his standing as leader of the free world which is also the correct protocol between two such countries as the UK and USA. no his job is to oversee the behaviour of members of the house of commons and the day to day running of the house so it is well within his remit, and Trump might think he is leader of the free world but that is only Trumps opinion, the free world is a loosely knit group of countries who do not always agree with each other and can think and act independently unlike the warsaw pact countries of the USSR era and i wonder how many MP's have contacted the speaker about the concerns ot their constituents Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yardrunner Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 14 hours ago, Lokie said: Exactly, He has overstepped the line as I stated, he works for the Parliament and sitting Government - not against it. A few hundred years ago heads would have been rolling or the gallows and the long drop. We would not be having these distractions from waste of time Re-mainers and anti-Trump leftists. no he works for parliament full stop he does not work for the sitting goverment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simple1 Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 Isn't wonderful to see the negative responses from all those who constantly whine about PC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boomerangutang Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 An author, who wrote a book about Trump several years ago, was invited by one of the Koch brothers to go an play golf at one of Trump's courses. When the men showed up, Trump was there. The author went up to Trump to congratulate him on winning the presidency. Trump, in an instant fit of anger, then threw the author off the course. Koch left with the author. They went to another golf course, which they said was much nicer. Note to British lawmakers: a vote against Trump, for any reason, will compel Trump to revert to his 7 year old angry character. He will bad-mouth you, he will denigrate your culture, and he will ban you from functions at any of the many properties he owns. He is the poster boy of vindictiveness. You've been warned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yardrunner Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 14 hours ago, Lokie said: Exactly, He has overstepped the line as I stated, he works for the Parliament and sitting Government - not against it. A few hundred years ago heads would have been rolling or the gallows and the long drop. We would not be having these distractions from waste of time Re-mainers and anti-Trump leftists. and yes a few hunded years ago heads were rolling and one of them was Charles 1st who thought kings had a divine right to rule but parliament stood up to him (English civil war)and that is what Bercow is doing standing up for the rights of parliament over the government Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dagnabbit Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 I am no fan of Bercow but on this I am fully behind him. Let's not forget that he is the Speaker of the House and therefore he is the one who would extend the invitation to Trump to address both Houses. He may need to be impartial to the political parties but you can't be impartial to doing the right thing (or not).What you are fully behind is censorship of a democratically elected leader that you just happen to disagree with.ShamefulSent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yardrunner Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 14 minutes ago, Dagnabbit said: What you are fully behind is censorship of a democratically elected leader that you just happen to disagree with. Shameful Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk no Teresa May's invitation to Trump still stands (unless the UK parliament votes to cancel the invitation) and he can say what he wants if he comes to the UK, just not in the houses of parliament and it will be intresting to see what alternative truth he comes up with to explain why he is not being invited to speak in the UK parliament Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simple1 Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 (edited) 15 minutes ago, yardrunner said: no Teresa May's invitation to Trump still stands (unless the UK parliament votes to cancel the invitation) and he can say what he wants if he comes to the UK, just not in the houses of parliament and it will be intresting to see what alternative truth he comes up with to explain why he is not being invited to speak in the UK parliament Probably better for Trump's creditably not to address both Houses of Parliament with his propensity for false / misleading content in his speeches. Edited February 8, 2017 by simple1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jayboy Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 Probably better for Trump's creditably not to address both Houses of Parliament with his propensity for false / misleading content in his speeches.Yes, since naturally the Mother of Parliaments has never in its long history been the scene of lies and deception.Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jayboy Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 and yes a few hunded years ago heads were rolling and one of them was Charles 1st who thought kings had a divine right to rule but parliament stood up to him (English civil war)and that is what Bercow is doing standing up for the rights of parliament over the government That is a misleading summary of the cause of the English Civil War.Charles the First was a rotten and obstinate monarch but the Protectorate was no less arbitrary and in some ways more dictatorial, and Cromwell was no standard bearer for parliamentary democracy.Most don't realise that the leadership on both Roundhead and Cavalier sides was landed gentry.Anyway the English people were fully behind the restoration of Charles the Second. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SheungWan Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 8 minutes ago, jayboy said: Yes, since naturally the Mother of Parliaments has never in its long history been the scene of lies and deception. Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect It is not permitted for a member of parliament to accuse another member in the Chamber of lying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jayboy Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 It is not permitted for a member of parliament to accuse another member in the Chamber of lying.And your point is?Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grouse Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 17 hours ago, Lokie said: Exactly, He has overstepped the line as I stated, he works for the Parliament and sitting Government - not against it. A few hundred years ago heads would have been rolling or the gallows and the long drop. We would not be having these distractions from waste of time Re-mainers and anti-Trump leftists. Good god, surely you're not pro Brexit AND pro Trump? How awful for you ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yardrunner Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 (edited) 31 minutes ago, jayboy said: That is a misleading summary of the cause of the English Civil War.Charles the First was a rotten and obstinate monarch but the Protectorate was no less arbitrary and in some ways more dictatorial, and Cromwell was no standard bearer for parliamentary democracy.Most don't realise that the leadership on both Roundhead and Cavalier sides was landed gentry.Anyway the English people were fully behind the restoration of Charles the Second. I was not referring to how the conflict evolved but to how it began and it began because Charles dissoved parliament for a number of years until he needed taxes to be raised to pay for a war and he recalled parliament so that taxes could be raised but parliament refused, charles threatened to arrest those MP's who defied him and that was the cause of the fighting begining and at this time although Cromwell was an MP he was not the famous leader of troops that he later became, what diffrence does it make if a large majority were in favour of the restoration of the monarchy, this was past the end of the civil war and the English republic ended when Charles the second returned Edited February 8, 2017 by yardrunner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grouse Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 Actually, it would be hilarious to allow Trump to address parliament. No TelePrompTer, just straight off the cuff. And then face MPs questions. He would be eviscerated! Imagine Skinner digging in! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lokie Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 14 hours ago, dunroaming said: Bercow a leftie and re-mainer? News to me. Always looking to hang labels on people and as usual, way off of the mark I was not referring to Bercow...; I was talking in general about all the time wasters of elected free world countries governments who whinge on and on about things when the vote has gone against them, you know people like you and a few others posting in the thread. Talk about having to spell things out lol... You refer to 'as usual' you are talking rubbish - read my post and try engaging your brain before attempting to give a retort Yes Grouse, Pro Brexit and Pro Trump (think he will do more good for US than last three Presidents) IMO of course, I may be wrong, time will answer that though. Oh and Pro UKIP in case you was wondering, Nigel Farage about the best orator involved in UK politics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jayboy Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 2 hours ago, yardrunner said: I was not referring to how the conflict evolved but to how it began and it began because Charles dissoved parliament for a number of years until he needed taxes to be raised to pay for a war and he recalled parliament so that taxes could be raised but parliament refused, charles threatened to arrest those MP's who defied him and that was the cause of the fighting begining and at this time although Cromwell was an MP he was not the famous leader of troops that he later became, what diffrence does it make if a large majority were in favour of the restoration of the monarchy, this was past the end of the civil war and the English republic ended when Charles the second returned Fair enough and point taken.What I was getting at earlier was that we tend to look at history through a contemporary prism, particularly focusing on what we are interested in now - parliamentary democracy and the challenge to autocracy.In fact, important though these aspects are, we tend to discount factors in which we are not very interested these days, in this case the impact of religious differences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lokie Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 4 hours ago, yardrunner said: no he works for parliament full stop he does not work for the sitting goverment You really believe that ha ha ha... He will have been given the third degree by TM by now and reminded of his position, that will be end of it.Trump will address both houses, we will see - then enjoy all the PC whinging TVF posters when it happens lol... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thisisnotmyrealname Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 The UK loves censorship. Most nations do, it is how they control the masses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SheungWan Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 11 minutes ago, thisisnotmyrealname said: The UK loves censorship. Most nations do, it is how they control the masses. Thank goodness you escaped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humberstone Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 I could be wrong, but Isn't this just about letting him address both houses in Westminster Hall only ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dick dasterdly Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 Bercow screwed up as its his job to be 'neutral' in parliament - regardless of whether or not one agrees with his stated viewpoint. Therefore he needs to be sacked from this position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dick dasterdly Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 (edited) 20 hours ago, Lokie said: You really believe that ha ha ha... He will have been given the third degree by TM by now and reminded of his position, that will be end of it.Trump will address both houses, we will see - then enjoy all the PC whinging TVF posters when it happens lol... There are no arrangements AFAIK for a Trump visit yet. Despite this, we have someone paid to be neutral (Bercow) publicly opposing something that hasn't been arranged... Edited February 9, 2017 by dick dasterdly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yardrunner Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 21 hours ago, Lokie said: You really believe that ha ha ha... He will have been given the third degree by TM by now and reminded of his position, that will be end of it.Trump will address both houses, we will see - then enjoy all the PC whinging TVF posters when it happens lol... yes lets wait and see Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yardrunner Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 1 hour ago, Humberstone said: I could be wrong, but Isn't this just about letting him address both houses in Westminster Hall only ? yes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humberstone Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 12 minutes ago, yardrunner said: yes Thanks. In that case I don't see what all the fuss is about. The Wiki link that someone posted in this thread shows that only a few Heads of State have addressed both houses in Westminster Hall but plenty of others have made an address from other places in HP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jayboy Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 "As we have been reminded this week, the most famous words (apart from ‘Order, order’) ever uttered by a Speaker of the House of Commons were those of William Lenthall. When King Charles I entered Parliament in search of the ‘five birds’ in 1642, Lenthall knelt to the King but told him, ‘I have neither eyes to see, nor tongue to speak in this place but as the House is pleased to direct me.’ It is only on that basis that the Speaker speaks. As soon as John Bercow said — of the speculative possibility that Donald Trump should address both Houses of Parliament — ‘I feel very strongly that our opposition to racism and sexism’ meant that the speech should not take place, he was out of order. His strong feelings are irrelevant, and it is unparliamentary of him to express them. Mr Bercow says he was putting forward the views of many MPs. The phrasing of the question from the Labour MP Stephen Doughty, which prompted Mr Bercow’s answer, certainly suggests the thing was cooked up between them. But Speaker Lenthall did not say ‘as some MPs are pleased to direct me’: he was speaking of the will of the whole House. Mr Bercow took no steps to ascertain that will. As a result of his exaltation of self over role, ‘Now does he feel his title hang loose about him, like a giant’s robe upon a dwarfish thief.’"Charles Moore in The Spectator Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grouse Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 (edited) On 08/02/2017 at 6:18 PM, Lokie said: I was not referring to Bercow...; I was talking in general about all the time wasters of elected free world countries governments who whinge on and on about things when the vote has gone against them, you know people like you and a few others posting in the thread. Talk about having to spell things out lol... You refer to 'as usual' you are talking rubbish - read my post and try engaging your brain before attempting to give a retort Yes Grouse, Pro Brexit and Pro Trump (think he will do more good for US than last three Presidents) IMO of course, I may be wrong, time will answer that though. Oh and Pro UKIP in case you was wondering, Nigel Farage about the best orator involved in UK politics. You're being ironic of course! No sane person would hold such views. Good humour though ? ( I were wondering about UKIP) Edited February 9, 2017 by Grouse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onthesoi Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 (edited) On 08/02/2017 at 11:18 AM, Lokie said: Oh and Pro UKIP in case you was wondering, I doubt anyone was wondering.... On 08/02/2017 at 11:18 AM, Lokie said: Nigel Farage about the best orator involved in UK politics. How exactly is Farage involved in UK politics? I know he lost his seat during the last election and resigned as leader of his failed party. Is he even an MP? Edited February 9, 2017 by onthesoi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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