7/11 Language

[Pdaz]

I used to always look for a "garan" on the final letter to indicate it was a foreign word or that the last letter didn't follow the final sound rules.. But seems this isn't consistent so becomes just another rule with lots of exceptions. So yet again it appears that nothing beats practical use. practice and listening carefully to native speakers.

No different to meeting a foreigner who has learnt English from a very formal and old fashioned text book.. Grammatically correct but nobody actually speaks like that in real life ( apart from the Brit Royal family maybe )

[tgeezer]

I think I made that point Pdaz in my first post and I wasn't being pedantic. I believe that you are only the second person to mention that เวฟ ends with a บ in fact you said only a few posts ago that it was something to do with 'V' !


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[Pdaz]

46 minutes ago, tgeezer said:

I think I made that point Pdaz in my first post and I wasn't being pedantic. I believe that you are only the second person to mention that เวฟ ends with a บ in fact you said only a few posts ago that it was something to do with 'V' !


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My "pedant" quip was only intended as light hearted banter. Please don't take it personally :)

Yes I agree and I applaud your intention to explain the details. But my point was it is all going a bit deep for anyone who only has a rudimentary understanding of Thai and knows nothing of the final sounds etc. We may know that V is often transliterated as the Thai "F" (ฟ) and that ฟ becomes บ in the final position but it's academic for a fella who can't read Thai. So as in my original line why not write "wave" the OP can read and pronounce it. Plus as V is the English equivalent of ฟ the sound heard should be pretty close.

In simple contextual questions where the answer can only be in the negative "mai" or in the affirmative by the repetition of the subject I think it's pretty hard to get it wrong :)  

 

[tgeezer]

I asked: Oxx but anyone can comment naturally.
"On the subject of "not studied Thai seriously ( based upon your previous postings)" if you saw anything with jwhich you did not agree why didn't you comment?"
i don't wish to be contentious but if this forum restricts itself to what is printed in English books much of Thai is going to be lost.
if I am lucky today and the 711 is not busy I shall ask in respect of the spelling มั้ย, the use of เวฟ and อุ่น grammatically. Incidentally I hope to be able to broach the subject of schooling for the job. In fact I shall probably start there and show that I am taking notes, if มั้ย is adhered to then, I shall ask them what their opinion is of ไหม and repeat my question on มั้ย. This is shamelessly leading the witness I know but hope that it will not prove necessary. My expectation is that it will not be so 'cut and dried' as some people hope.
Considering อุ่น as a word modifying a noun, the RID sees it as "on the hot side" warm body, and "not very hot, not very cold" of the weather. I know that runners วาพ์มอับ (warm up) before running and afterwards they วาร์มดาวน์ (cool down) So how would an English book equate วาร์ม in this case?





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[tgeezer]

You see Pdaz how we agree, in fact everyone on the forum agrees fundementally, that none of us knows it all. My real point is that there is no ending with dead words, lip reading is the most accurate way to recognise them in my opinion. I did mention that some Thais might be able to say v as an ending. I have a reservation on that, I am not sure if it would appear as pretentious to a Thai as it would be to say 'omage for homage or Pari for Paris in English. I know that omage is thought to serve a purpose to the chatterati in the arts world but I am 70% left brain, which explains my pedantry and why I would never say omage especially in thei company of arty types.


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[tgeezer]

I called on to the 711 on my way home. I could not get anyone of the four employees I spoke with to commit to ไหม or มั้ย. When I suggested that with เอามั้ย that I might want a stick เอาไม้ an exasperated chap who had already explained ภาษาพูด ภาษาเขียน said เอาบาทเจ็บไหม and moved off, unamused. He may have said เอาบาทเจ็บมั้ย or even เอาบาทเจ็บมะ ,
in conversation one understands and doesn't remember.
I think that most people know that to utter a word and ask a Thai for เสียงวรรณยุกต์ the answer is on the tip of their fingers rather than the tip of their tongues: ไม ใหม่ ไม่ ไม้ ไหม and a bit of a turn-off for them.
As to heating, they agreed to ทำให้ร้อนหน่อย อุ่นหน่อย เวฟหน่อย. I only buy chrisps, (potato chips) and when I asked one girl what they are she replied เลย์(Lay) . I demonstrated "chrispsa" they were amused but too shy to try it.
Only the original two girls left by then so I had to lighten the atmosphere before leaving with my favorite ปริศนา : อะไรเอ๋ย ยิ่งตัดยิ่งยาว I gave the answer ถนน and left, childish I know, but they had forgotten it so I brightened their day I hope.
What I have realized is that in หมัย to make it rising you need to say two syllables mid-high and if you shorten it you end up with only the second part, the even shorter version would be มะ but it happens naturally.


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[Richard W]

1 hour ago, tgeezer said:

I called on to the 711 on my way home. I could not get anyone of the four employees I spoke with to commit to ไหม or มั้ย. When I suggested that with เอามั้ย that I might want a stick เอาไม้ an exasperated chap who had already explained ภาษาพูด ภาษาเขียน said เอาบาทเจ็บไหม and moved off, unamused. He may have said เอาบาทเจ็บมั้ย or even เอาบาทเจ็บมะ ,
in conversation one understands and doesn't remember.

My understanding is that, except in compounds, ไม้ is pronounced [H]maai, not [H]mai.

[Richard W]

9 hours ago, Pdaz said:

 ... ฟ becomes บ in the final position ...

A lot of Thais have forgotten that rule.

[tgeezer]

Horror of horrors, I have spelt บาด บาท painful foot. let's assume that he was going to hit me on the foot.


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[Pdaz]

"I only buy chrisps, (potato chips) and when I asked one girl what they are she replied เลย์(Lay) . I demonstrated "chrispsa" they were amused but too shy to try it"

 

Still giggling at this.

My Mrs also called any type of crunchy snack เลย์ and had never heard of "Crisps" or "Chips". Only after after a couple of trips overseas did she start to use "Crisps" but somehow the "s" gets swallowed and we end up with "Crips"

 

Another thing I noticed when I read my wife's facebook posts to her "gang" is that they don't always use the correct of formal spellings. According to her. "misspelling thai words or using transliterated English is cool"  Guess this is similar to Western kids using texting abbreviations like "M8" or "Ur"? All I know is that it's bloody annoying for a farang trying to read it

[ThaiCitizen]

On 11/02/2017 at 7:08 PM, Oxx said:

 

Absolutely.  No need to bother getting the tones right.  It doesn't matter that Thai people won't understand you.  In fact, if you do pronounce Thai correctly the locals will only think that you're trying to show off.  Far better to sound like someone who's picked up a few words from their paid-by-the-hour girlfriend.

 

Would you believe it? Some people actually spend time studying the language and learn to speak, read and write accurately.  Total tossers and poseurs and an utter waste of 100s of hours hard work.

Nobody said that. I've spent over 25 years learning the Thai language and passed the P6 exam a few years back. The tones are very important.