Complicated life! Thai girlfriend twice denied UK visa, now married, next step?

[ronaldo0]

39 minutes ago, rasg said:

Yes. Two years, five years and ten years.

Is that not the time periods you have to apply to carry on staying if you entered on a residency visa?

[zoza]

a while back my wife was refused a visa and even though I put in an appeal on the same day

as she applied , the ECO commented that they had not received the appeal until after the

decision was made.

The ECO and the British consul also informed us that it was impossible for VFS to have removed financial statements because it was against the rules.

 

I have spoken to French tour agents in lao and they say exactly the same sabotage of visa

applications is carried out by VFS in Lao,

they call it the miss placing of vital documents, (very tongue in cheek)

 

she eventually got a visa but I had to go with her and even then they tried to get her to sign a false declaration of documents included, they acted as though they did not understand the written English on their form.

I do not believe all this is accidental as there are many people who just give up and say nothing, to take out of an application every single financial document is not bad luck

and two out of two applications attempts at sabotage is not an accident .

I have had dealings with the Thai nationals who work for the consul and they have all been

extremely helpful and have gone out of their way to do the right thing.

but VFS seem to have a few bad apples.   

my advice is go with your partner and check everything, be quiet and respectful as these

people have a bit of power and it seems  the British consul can't or won't go against them.    

[MarkGB]

23 hours ago, ThaiVisaExpress said:

It's clear that the ECO is concerned with her lack of reasons to return to Thailand after any visit to the UK.  But, as others have said, the decision must be made on the balance pf probabilities.  The ECO may be concerned about her background.  You say that you met in Hong Kong ?  What was she doing there ?  Did you give any explanation  in the applications ?

 

I'm interested in what you say about the telephone call to your wife.  Why did the interviewer ask her if she had ever worked in Pattaya ?  That seems a strange question to ask out of the blue.  There is one interviewer at the Embassy who can be a little aggressive in his questioning. Possibly it was him.  If you would like us to find out what exactly happened in the telephone interview, and what was asked, then we can possibly do so ?

 

 

Thank you for the offer and insight. She worked briefly worked a hotel reception job in Pattaya/Jomtien and just answered without clarity, initially. The first visa company (recommended by a friend) did not prepare her for what was to come and the second visa company (again recommended by a friend) made false promises. 

 

In answer to your other question, we were online friends for a while and I was working in Hong Kong and invited her for a trip.

 

She waited by the phone early every morning (bolstered by energy drinks!) after the second application, but the call never came. Any light you could shed on the matter would be appreciated. She doesn't really have an interest in England, just wants to be with me which makes the embassy insinuation that this is an illegitimate application more risible. But, as expected, this seems very common and par for the course.

[SaintLouisBlues]

The notion that getting married adds much weight to a visa application these days is mistaken for almost any First World Country except the USA. Ever since gay couples fought for equal billing, immigration departments have looked for evidence of the genuineness of the relationship, not its legal status. It's a matter of some irony that while immigration authorities around the world have stressed that getting married legally means nothing precisely so as to support applications from gay couples, gay couples have fought for the right to get married legally. It's a sad, mad world we live in

 

[MarkGB]

Thank you so much for the many, varied responses. I'm very sorry and sympathetic to those of you who have toiled away for years trying only to spend time with your significant other. But heartened it worked out for some of you in the end. 

 

So I guess, in summary, the 'next step' advice is:

 

Apply for a one month tourist visa if she has a job/benevolent employer willing to grant that amount of holiday? Settlement is something way down the line....

 

Explain, in my words and not those wrongly advised by the two visa companies, the previously explained facts of our relationship.

 

Possibly look at a Schengen Visa for a trip first? Paris makes obvious sense and the reasons are credible (the reason I don't have £5,000 in my account every month is because I play significant child support, which is only fair, and maintain two homes (one owned/one rented) on either side of the world and have flown to Thailand nine times in the last year. A costly business for most people, I think).

 

 

[7by7]

7 hours ago, ronaldo0 said:

There is a visit visa for 2 years ??

 

6 hours ago, ronaldo0 said:

Is that not the time periods you have to apply to carry on staying if you entered on a residency visa?

 

Different things.

 

A family settlement visa is valid for 33 months; after living in the UK for 30 months you apply for Further Leave to Remain which is valid for 30 months. At the end of that 30 months you apply for Indefinite Leave to Remain.

 

Standard visit visas are usually valid for 6 months, but if you can show a need to regularly visit the UK over a longer period you can obtain one valid for, as rasg said, 2, 5 or 10 years. See Standard visitor visa.

 

Whatever the term of a standard visit visa, the holder can only spend a maximum of 6 months in the UK per visit.

 

In addition, if on arrival at a UK port of entry a visitor appears to spending more time in the UK than out they could be refused entry on the grounds that they are using their visit visa for de facto UK residence. There is no actual rule on the frequency and duration of visits, but a standard visitor is normally expected to spend no more than 6 months out of 12 in the UK.

 

 

[rasg]

7 hours ago, zoza said:

but VFS seem to have a few bad apples.   

my advice is go with your partner and check everything, be quiet and respectful as these

people have a bit of power and it seems  the British consul can't or won't go against them.    

That's not possible. On the one occasion I went with my then, girlfriend they wouldn't let me go with her. What your GF has to do is insist that all the documents are included in the way you have supplied them.

 

There was a post on here last year where VFS had removed documents and a visa was refused. The applicant made a complaint and the staff as VFS were hauled over the coals for doing it. I wish I could find it.

Edited February 12, 2017 by rasg

[7by7]

6 hours ago, MarkGB said:

She doesn't really have an interest in England, just wants to be with me which makes the embassy insinuation that this is an illegitimate application more risible.

The ECO can only judge each application on the evidence presented by the applicant.

 

To be frank, from what you have said, and the refusal notice you posted, I can fully understand why she has been refused. Not just because of the discrepancies between what was said in the application and the telephone interview, but also because of her and your circumstances.

 

At first the girlfriend, now wife of a British citizen who, even though he visits her in Thailand frequently, has no Thai residency visa of any type and so is resident in the UK, not Thailand. She has no ties to Thailand, not even her son who doesn't live with her, who she doesn't support financially in any way and who she rarely visits.

 

You seem to be assuming that, despite this, the ECO will somehow know that she doesn't want to live in the UK with her husband!

 

In all UK visa applications, the burden of proof is upon the applicant. The level of proof is 'on the balance of probabilities,' but she still has to convince the ECO that she is not attempting to by pass the settlement rules by obtaining a visit visa and then overstaying once in the UK so she can live with her husband.

 

In her circumstances this may be difficult, she, and you, need to explain why, despite now being your wife and you not having, or being able to obtain, residency in Thailand, she and you do not want to live together in the UK.

 

Which is why I think you need the services of a reputable agent, and so suggest that you contact Thai Visa Express directly.

 

6 hours ago, MarkGB said:

But, as expected, this seems very common and par for the course.

It isn't; those who have posted their experiences of refusals are in the minority.

 

Whilst not pointing the figure at any of those posters, I don't know the full circumstances, it is also common for those who have been refused to blame the system, rather than look for shortcomings in their application.

 

I have been reading and posting on forums such as this for over 10 years, and can confidently say that the most common reason for a refusal is because although the applicant qualified for the visa applied for, they failed to show that they did!

 

If you search through the immigration statistics you will find that, on average, 95% of visit visa applications in Bangkok are successful.

 

 

[rasg]

4 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

Whilst not pointing the figure at any of those posters, I don't know the full circumstances, it is also common for those who have been refused to blame the system, rather than look for shortcomings in their application.

This happens a lot. Especially on here.

 

In the last couple of weeks there was an instance of a couple who wanted help who had been refused a VV twice last year. Both using very dodgy Thai visa companies. I helped them to put an application together that addressed the ECOs concerns for the two failed attempts, suggested they used the fact that the woman owned a house and land in Thailand as part of the application and wrote a sponsor letter explaining that the woman was now living with her mum and her situation had changed. All true.

 

The application was based around her finances after she had moved back with her mum and she was meant to supply three months bank statements showing the new circumstances. She went her own way and ordered six months worth of statements showing quite a lot of money flowing in and out of her account for the three months before we had talked about in the sponsor letter. It included £1000 that her brother had been told to put in her account to get a visa for one of the first visa application attempts last year.

 

The visa was refused because the ECO didn’t believe that her financial situation was as we had explained in the sponsor letter. If she had done as suggested she would have probably been planning a holiday in the UK right now.

[7by7]

1 minute ago, rasg said:

The visa was refused because the ECO didn’t believe that her financial situation was as we had explained in the sponsor letter. If she had done as suggested she would have probably been planning a holiday in the UK right now.

ECOs tend to be suspicious of large, unexplained amounts of money suddenly appearing or leaving an account.

 

If she had explained the reasons for the monies flowing in and out of her account over the six months she would also probably not have had a problem.

 

It seems to me that some people expect the ECOs to be psychic!

 

[7by7]

36 minutes ago, rasg said:

There was a post on here last year where VFS had removed documents and a visa was refused. The applicant made a complaint and the staff as VFS were hauled over the coals for doing it. I wish I could find it.

There was a similar topic where despite being advised to make a complaint the OP repeatedly refused to do so!

 

It seems that some people would rather vent their spleen on an internet forum than do what is actually needed.

[7by7]

18 hours ago, ronaldo0 said:

You say it doesn't work like that with VFS so can you explain how several people I know with zero money or a 2 month relationship all used the same company and paid 30000bht each and got visas?

Who did they pay this money to?

 

Are you implying that they bribed someone at VFS? A serious allegation which should be reported to VFS.

 

Even if they did, that would have no effect on an application; VFS staff play no part in the decision making process. All UK visa applications are decided by Entry Clearance Officers based at the British embassy who are direct employees of UK Visas and Immigration; an agency of the Home Office.

 

Maybe you mean they bribed an ECO? A serious allegation which should be reported to the Home Office.

 

Or do you mean they paid a reputable visa agent to prepare a proper application for them?

[brewsterbudgen]

20 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

There was a similar topic where despite being advised to make a complaint the OP repeatedly refused to do so!

 

It seems that some people would rather vent their spleen on an internet forum than do what is actually needed.

My then girlfriend wanted to apply for a UK Marriage Visitor's visa and was persuaded by the VFS staff that, as we wanted two entries, she should change the application to a regular visitor's visa, which we did, despite my reservations.  Of course, I was right and UKVI read between the lines and issued the multiple-entry Marriage Visitor visa.  I complained, by email and, eventually was refunded the 2nd visa costs.  I have a feeling that if I hadn't complained, I wouldn't have got the refund!

[rasg]

21 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

ECOs tend to be suspicious of large, unexplained amounts of money suddenly appearing or leaving an account.

 

If she had explained the reasons for the monies flowing in and out of her account over the six months she would also probably not have had a problem.

 

It seems to me that some people expect the ECOs to be psychic!

 

I know that from my reading here and elsewhere. I specifically advised that they supplied the previous three months or I would have changed the sponsor letter to explain the previous big sums of money. For one of their previous applications the visa company had specifically advised that money was put into the applicant's account. I spent quite a few hours on the application for them and it is so annoying when somebody doesn’t do what they were advised to do. It would have been so easy to explain too. The ECO was merely doing his/her job.

[rasg]

17 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

Or do you mean they paid a reputable visa agent to prepare a proper application for them?

That sounds the most likely. The amount of money is about right for a reputable visa company.

[MarkGB]

1 hour ago, 7by7 said:

The ECO can only judge each application on the evidence presented by the applicant.

 

To be frank, from what you have said, and the refusal notice you posted, I can fully understand why she has been refused. Not just because of the discrepancies between what was said in the application and the telephone interview, but also because of her and your circumstances.

 

At first the girlfriend, now wife of a British citizen who, even though he visits her in Thailand frequently, has no Thai residency visa of any type and so is resident in the UK, not Thailand. She has no ties to Thailand, not even her son who doesn't live with her, who she doesn't support financially in any way and who she rarely visits.

 

You seem to be assuming that, despite this, the ECO will somehow know that she doesn't want to live in the UK with her husband!

 

In all UK visa applications, the burden of proof is upon the applicant. The level of proof is 'on the balance of probabilities,' but she still has to convince the ECO that she is not attempting to by pass the settlement rules by obtaining a visit visa and then overstaying once in the UK so she can live with her husband.

 

In her circumstances this may be difficult, she, and you, need to explain why, despite now being your wife and you not having, or being able to obtain, residency in Thailand, she and you do not want to live together in the UK.

 

Which is why I think you need the services of a reputable agent, and so suggest that you contact Thai Visa Express directly.

 

It isn't; those who have posted their experiences of refusals are in the minority.

 

Whilst not pointing the figure at any of those posters, I don't know the full circumstances, it is also common for those who have been refused to blame the system, rather than look for shortcomings in their application.

 

I have been reading and posting on forums such as this for over 10 years, and can confidently say that the most common reason for a refusal is because although the applicant qualified for the visa applied for, they failed to show that they did!

 

If you search through the immigration statistics you will find that, on average, 95% of visit visa applications in Bangkok are successful.

 

 

Thanks again for your insight. I'm not assuming anything or a mind-reading skill on the part of the ECO. So your suggestion is to use another visa company for a tourist visa (settlement is fine for me and her in the UK, but I was told this wasn't an option)? 

 

But unless the information has changed - new job etc....she has 'no reason to return', using their language? I have to spend time in England and France (seeing my sick parent and looking after my son); those are just my circumstances. It's an imperfect world at the best of times. I can't just abandon my son  and other family, otherwise I would settle in Thailand. Just trying to find the best solution. Thanks again. Appreciated.

[rasg]

On 10/02/2017 at 7:48 AM, MarkGB said:

Both applications were through supposedly ‘reliable’ and personally recommended visa companies, but next time I will apply myself as was my original intention.

Were the visa companies OISC accredited? Thai Visa Express are the only one that I would recommend. In the last few months I read of an instance where a UK solicitor was involved with an immigration issue with a UK visa for a Thai National and they made some fundamental mistakes in the application and wanted more money to put things right.

 

With a Settlement visa she doesn’t need a reason to return. You need a provable income of £18600 pa. Your wife needs a language test (£150) and a TB test (3300 baht).

 

 

[Tony M]

You have received a lot of good advice so far, and you are now far more aware of the difficulties than you were previously.  I can fully understand your reluctance in spending even more money on a new application, but consider that there are some agencies that offer a "no-visa, no-fee" service. All you pay for in advance is the actual visa fee. So, if the visa is refused yet again,  you will have lost around 100 GBP, but not the (I assume) larger fees you have lost previously.  We (Thai Visa Express) offer such a service.  We don't offer any guarantees as, as others have said, nobody can guarantee you a visa.

Edited February 12, 2017 by Tony M

[7by7]

28 minutes ago, MarkGB said:

settlement is fine for me and her in the UK, but I was told this wasn't an option

Told by whom, and for what reason?

 

Yes, the requirements need to be met, including of course the financial requirement, and it's a lot more expensive than a visit visa. But if you can do that and are happy to live together in the UK, go for it.

 

Apply to join family living permanently in the UK

 

 

[7by7]

22 minutes ago, rasg said:

I read of an instance where a UK solicitor was involved with an immigration issue with a UK visa for a Thai National and they made some fundamental mistakes in the application and wanted more money to put things right.

Which is the problem with using a solicitor!

 

Most solicitors spend their time on conveyancing, wills, probate, family law and similar.

 

If I were arrested I want a solicitor who specialises in criminal law; if I needed advice on immigration I want a solicitor who specialises in immigration law. Although I'd be more likely to use an OISC registered advisor of the appropriate level; just as professional as an immigration solicitor, and probably cheaper!

Edited February 12, 2017 by 7by7

[MarkGB]

1 hour ago, rasg said:

Were the visa companies OISC accredited? Thai Visa Express are the only one that I would recommend. In the last few months I read of an instance where a UK solicitor was involved with an immigration issue with a UK visa for a Thai National and they made some fundamental mistakes in the application and wanted more money to put things right.

 

With a Settlement visa she doesn’t need a reason to return. You need a provable income of £18600 pa. Your wife needs a language test (£150) and a TB test (3300 baht).

 

 

Thank you. I earn over twice that amount pa and own a London home. So it seems a settlement visa is the way to go - the last visa company [name removed] said there was no chance of a settlement visa without a tourist visa first. What else is required? The usual proof of relationship and anything else? Thanks again.

[MarkGB]

1 hour ago, Tony M said:

You have received a lot of good advice so far, and you are now far more aware of the difficulties than you were previously.  I can fully understand your reluctance in spending even more money on a new application, but consider that there are some agencies that offer a "no-visa, no-fee" service. All you pay for in advance is the actual visa fee. So, if the visa is refused yet again,  you will have lost around 100 GBP, but not the (I assume) larger fees you have lost previously.  We (Thai Visa Express) offer such a service.  We don't offer any guarantees as, as others have said, nobody can guarantee you a visa.

Thank you, Tony. What about for a settlement visa? 

[MarkGB]

1 hour ago, 7by7 said:

Told by whom, and for what reason?

 

Yes, the requirements need to be met, including of course the financial requirement, and it's a lot more expensive than a visit visa. But if you can do that and are happy to live together in the UK, go for it.

 

Apply to join family living permanently in the UK

 

 

Thanks for the advice and patience with me. I wanted to go for a settlement visa, but was advised by [name removed] that this was not an option two months before my wife and I married. So we went for the tourist visa....

[theoldgit]

22 minutes ago, MarkGB said:

Thank you. I earn over twice that amount pa and own a London home. So it seems a settlement visa is the way to go - the last visa company [name removed] said there was no chance of a settlement visa without a tourist visa first. What else is required? The usual proof of relationship and anything else? Thanks again.

 

That advice is utter rubbish.
I've removed the name of the "visa company" to comply with forum rules.
I would suggest you contact Thai Visa Express directly rather than attempt to plan your options on an open forum.

[MarkGB]

11 hours ago, theoldgit said:

12 hours ago, MarkGB said:

Thank you. I earn over twice that amount pa and own a London home. So it seems a settlement visa is the way to go - the last visa company [name removed] said there was no chance of a settlement visa without a tourist visa first. What else is required? The usual proof of relationship and anything else? Thanks again.

 

That advice is utter rubbish.
I've removed the name of the "visa company" to comply with forum rules.
I would suggest you contact Thai Visa Express directly rather than attempt to plan your options on an open forum.
 

Sure, no problem and apologies, that wasn't my intention. Many thanks.

[rasg]

3 hours ago, rasg said:

With a Settlement visa she doesn’t need a reason to return. You need a provable income of £18600 pa. Your wife needs a language test (£150) and a TB test (3300 baht).

I mentioned this earlier.

 

Ge here and create an account. Select the correct visa (Settlement visa) and complete the basic details of your wife. You then have access to the form you need to complete for the visa. It will give you an idea of what is required. You will also need to complete Appendix 2.

 

Download it from here and take a look. It's a PDF.

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/270484/VAF4A-Appendix2.pdf

[MarkGB]

5 minutes ago, rasg said:

I mentioned this earlier.

 

Ge here and create an account. Select the correct visa (Settlement visa) and complete the basic details of your wife. You then have access to the form you need to complete for the visa. It will give you an idea of what is required. You will also need to complete Appendix 2.

 

Download it from here and take a look. It's a PDF.

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/270484/VAF4A-Appendix2.pdf

Thank you again. Blinded a bit by all the helpful info!

[rasg]

15 minutes ago, MarkGB said:

Thank you again. Blinded a bit by all the helpful info!

Why? Most people will give help to somebody who wants it. We have all been there at some some or other.

[RAZZELL]

On 11/02/2017 at 4:29 AM, ronaldo0 said:

Welcome to my world !!

I applied first time and the only reason they turned my wife down was she only provided 3 months bank statements not the 6 they asked for.

 

So you didn't fill out the form correctly and you wonder why you were refused? 

 

 

RAZZ

[zoza]

9 hours ago, rasg said:

That's not possible. On the one occasion I went with my then, girlfriend they wouldn't let me go with her. What your GF has to do is insist that all the documents are included in the way you have supplied them.

 

There was a post on here last year where VFS had removed documents and a visa was refused. The applicant made a complaint and the staff as VFS were hauled over the coals for doing it. I wish I could find it.

yes it is possible all you have to do is tell them you are not happy that they have left all

the financial documents in a folder and ask to see the boss/supervisor.

you then stand at the entrance telling everyone in hearing distance what they have done

an older/senior lady then came out and assured me I would be allowed to accompany my wife if we made another application.

rasg you sound like the British consul with your" that's not possible" you do not know half of what goes on, every thing actually happened as described and they even tried it on the second time,

and why did I believe the "supervisor" because by that time I had five security surrounding me and I decided to settle for what I had ,they never even checked who I was when I walked in with my wife the second time so they knew who and why I was allowed in.

does that tell you anything or is that impossible as well.