Do you consider Chiang Mai as your permanent home?

4MyEgo · February 11, 2017

11 minutes ago, mamborobert said:

4MyEgo...I guess we are an example of "one man's fish is another's poisson".

After years in Thailand I still vote in Australian Federal and State elections, claim tax free threshold, pay on investments and superannuation and shares, pay Medicare Levy, will never qualify for OAP as exceed financial and asset limits (Inever planned to rely on OAP or remain in Australia till 65), hold a valid passport, pay my council rates etc etc. As said my social contract is very much with Australia. I fully particpate in Australian democracy, social and financial obligations and entitlements......basically all the things that come with me being a citizen (something I am not and unlikely ever to be, in Thailand not matter what I wish).

Make no mistake...I really enjoy living here, there are few things I miss as other Oz have pointed out, I have a very good quality of life here...sit on my balcony looking out and even on the hazy, rainy, or hot days would not want to be dead for quids.

But home it aint (as far as having an ongoing and social contract with the nation state) ...and by extension permanent home it cannot be regardless of any desire on my part. In the end living here is very much the junta giveth and the junta taketh away, nothing permanent or asured or certain in Thailand as far as expats are concerned or even Thai citizens.

The thing I fail to understand is how can you be a resident of Australia under the taxation system, if you are outside of the country for more than 183 days, or even longer 8 years, are you living in Australia 50/50 i.e. 6 months of the year there and 6 months here, because my interpretation of the legislation is ones abode, is where one resides, be it a park.

Having said the above, and with no disrespect, I understand one may think its not as cut and dry as that, but I think a lot of xpat Aussies are going to become unstuck, if ever audited.

Edited February 11, 2017 by 4MyEgo

jonwilly · February 11, 2017

Home is where the heart is.

Why Oh Why do some folk bring the colour of ones skin into the problem.

Me Honkey, ex wife Brown, light brown, never bothered me then or now.

Spent 9-10 years in Mid East, can't say I would move to a Islamist country.

Knew some good people, but never forget an Infidel is a Kafer no matter what their skin colour is, very fair our Islamist cousins.

Not religious, but find Buddhists tolerant bring their kids up in a way I understand and that will do for me.

john

cyberfarang · February 11, 2017

1 hour ago, 4MyEgo said:

I can't say that "I still call Australia home"

How could one, as soon as you leave, in my case 40 years as a tax payer, they impose the most stupid rules on you, i.e. if you own a property you are taxed @ at a flat rate of 32.5c in the $ for every $ you earn from rent, on top of that you have your usual rates, insurances and agents fees to pay, making it unfeasible, and you are not entitled to the normal $18,200 threshold that you would have usually received, they also charge you full capital gains tax on your property from the day you leave the country, that's right, no 50% discount, meaning any increase in value on your property goes to the government.

They also take away your voting rights from you so you have no say as an Australian citizen, work that out ?

They cancel your Medicare card so you are not entitled to any health care, they also make no provision for you to contribute to the Medicare Levy Tax surcharge.

If you want your pension, you have to return and stay in the country for 2 years, however on the other hand, if you are a refugee you receive benefits straight away, if you are of a certain religion whereby you can have 4 wives with 30,000 kids, you receive benefits for everyone, providing 3 of your wives live in separate accommodation, supplemented no doubt, and of course CentreLink will provide you with family A & B payments for each kids which adds up to a hell of a lot per child, $11,000 last time I checked, if your sitting there smoking on your Hookah and not working.

I have no property in Australia as I refused to pay the ridiculous taxes and full capital gains tax, that is their plan anyway.

I invest in the stock market like yourself and pay zero tax to the government and zero capital gains tax because, and its all legal, now just think how much they are losing in taxes, their choice.

I have money in term deposits and they get 10% withholding tax, that's far less than they would get if I was taxed under the normal process, again their choice.

Me personally I wouldn't call Australia home because of its unjust ways as to how Australia treats its xpats, suffice to say I am enjoying Thailand where I live, but I can only call Thailand home as long as Thailand allows me to stay, and when the time comes, if it comes, and I have to leave, I will say thanks, and look for my next abode.

It is similar for us Brits. Although I have paid into it all my working life I am no longer entitled to receive medical treatment under the UK national health service unless I return to England and become a full time resident there again with a residential address that is impossible because I sold up everything when I left. Considering I`m also not entitled to any subsidised medical in Thailand, I`m sort of stuck in limbo.

4MyEgo · February 11, 2017

2 minutes ago, cyberfarang said:

It is similar for us Brits. Although I have paid into it all my working life I am no longer entitled to receive medical treatment under the UK national health service unless I return to England and become a full time resident there again with a residential address that is impossible because I sold up everything when I left. Considering I`m also not entitled to any subsidised medical in Thailand, I`m sort of stuck in limbo.

I hear you, was talking to a Brit the other day and he said England was going down Australia path, perhaps we should all become refugees in our next life 555

mamborobert · February 11, 2017

4MyEgo...we digress a bit but yes I do believe a lot o people will become unstuck if and when the Oz govt catches up with people here or enhances data matching.

In my own circumstances I obtained a tax ruling on my resident status. I did this very much for financial reasons (threshold claim, medicare safety net). The residency test does have some "interpretation" to it and continuing ties is assessed on a case by case basis. For that reason alone I keep my house there, vote there, have weekly video calls with parents and adult children, attend family social occasions (anniversarys and funerals etc as required for a few days), always make a trip back for two weeks twice a year, keep my Aussie license valid, pay rates under own name, do not rent out house (have family staying there looking after the place)...and hand on my heart I can say that I have not decided to permanently leave Australia. I have ongoing and demonstrable financial, social and permanent property ties solely to Australia and nowhere else.

Of course tax ruling can change...and 100% agree with you that having a definitive tax ruling for all expats over "X" years residence in Oz (in my case 48 years) as far as Medicare and tax free threshold is concerned should be a monty and provide security and ongoing financial certainty to Oz expats in their old age.

Despite the ruling I do try to keep my head down, fulfil my obligations as a citizen, and will never qualify for OZ OAP.

I do feel for those on OAP and Disability pension or seeking the OAP in the future (with two year resident rule)...they are certainly under the most scrutiny and need to continually "evidence" there ongoing entitlement, and are subject to the whims of legislative and policy changes. Its an odd thing that the easiest targets are always the most vulnerable and disenfranchised (which again beyond OZ could apply to expat status and swathes of Thais in Thailand)

PS. I might be a bit of an oddity here in CM in that it costs me more to stay here than in OZ. around 450000 Baht pa easy. I do not mind this given the enjoyment etc I have here. Having said that the day that the ATO determines officially that I am not a resident for tax purposes is the day I quit Thailand. At that point staying will cost me a motza and the enjoyment return on dollars seriously diminishes. Would be making shorter trips in 5 star hotels and resorts then. Hope it does not come to that.

Edited February 11, 2017 by mamborobert

LannaGuy · February 11, 2017

9 minutes ago, cyberfarang said:

It is similar for us Brits. Although I have paid into it all my working life I am no longer entitled to receive medical treatment under the UK national health service unless I return to England and become a full time resident there again with a residential address that is impossible because I sold up everything when I left. Considering I`m also not entitled to any subsidised medical in Thailand, I`m sort of stuck in limbo.

me too... still have my NHS card but useless now so all the 1000s I paid in are useless too and don't even start me on the pension!

The manic · February 11, 2017

Farang? Why speak pigeon English? In answer to your question-I could not care less.

The manic · February 11, 2017

28 minutes ago, cyberfarang said:

It is similar for us Brits. Although I have paid into it all my working life I am no longer entitled to receive medical treatment under the UK national health service unless I return to England and become a full time resident there again with a residential address that is impossible because I sold up everything when I left. Considering I`m also not entitled to any subsidised medical in Thailand, I`m sort of stuck in limbo.

So basically if you want NHS treatment keep an address in the UK with two bills. you only have to be resident for six months when you return. The NHS is so shit its not worth worrying about.

cyberfarang · February 11, 2017

6 minutes ago, The manic said:

So basically if you want NHS treatment keep an address in the UK with two bills. you only have to be resident for six months when you return. The NHS is so shit its not worth worrying about.

Wrong and right.

You don`t have to be resident for 6 months in the UK to receive NHS treatment. From the first day of return providing you can convince the NHS that you have returned to stay on a permanent basis, then you are entitled to free NHS treatment. And yes, the NHS service is abysmal and literally have to be almost dead before they`ll admit you into a hospital.

worgeordie · February 11, 2017

It will be 30 years for me this year,so i suppose Chiang mai is my permanent

home,and I have a plot bought in the foreign cemetery ,so I will never leave.

I was on my way to retire in Costa Rica,the long way round,and ended up

here,and did not really want to move,Chiang mai and Thailand have been

good to me,the changes here have been mind boggling,some good and some

not so, I was lucky enough to do a lot of travelling when I was younger,so

don't have itchy feet now,although I would like to visit Madagascar,and Easter

Island,before I call it a day. Life is what you make it,wherever you are.

regards Worgeordie

balo · February 11, 2017

I would never stay in one place too long , I find it just too boring. I would call myself a digital nomad yes , it's some sort of lifestyle I guess.

Now I left my ex behind in Bangkok and I would probably move back to BKK if I had to stay for many years , just more options down there. Yes I love the scenery and the mountain areas here but it's not something I would call my permanent home . We only live once, if you have a big family here and don't want to move then good for you.

My grand dad stayed in the farm his whole life , he never experienced the world outside and he was still happy I guess. We are the lucky ones who can travel the world , earn money and enjoy different cultures.

CMHomeboy78 · February 11, 2017

1 hour ago, The manic said:

Farang? Why speak pigeon English? In answer to your question-I could not care less.

What you are responding to is a good example of the kind of cultural misunderstanding that prevents so many foreigners from ever being truly at home in Chiang Mai.

The term farang is not, and never has been, a racial insult.

It has been part of the Thai lexicon since the early 16th century when it was taken from the Farsi word farangi, meaning Frank, and by extension, Europeans.

No historical sources in Thai have been found that use the word in a derogatory sense.

Anyone who lives among Thais will know that when used alone it is totally inoffensive.

There is a small but vocal faction of Chiang Mai expats who try to convince newcomers that the word is an insult.

Encouraging people to take offense where none is intended looks like the work of troublemakers.

wwest5829 · February 11, 2017

Quote

Came to Thailand twice in 2009, then again in 2010 staying a month each visit. Ctraveled around Thailand but Chiang Mai felt right and so sold everything in the US and settled here. Chiang Mai is my only home although should I find, "a heart of gold" other locations are an option.

jonwilly · February 11, 2017

"I hear you, was talking to a Brit the other day and he said England was going down Australia path, perhaps we should all become refugees in our next life 555 "

I understand what your saying only in UK being a Refugee and Honkey will not work. UK you need to be an illegal immigrant to 'Proff' from the system.

Thai's are decent folk. Yes we have all met wrong ones but the vast majority are normal folk just making what they can for them and their family.

john

CMKiwi · February 11, 2017

I've got an English mate who lives just down the road. He said the last time he went back to London it just wasn't the same.

He met up with friends at the local pub for a few ales and a catch up. When asked where he's been and what's he's doing, they weren't really that interested to learn.

His old friends from Blighty were more interested in the dog races or football or virtually anything else that was happening in their backyard rather than hear about overseas goings on.

I suspect that's why the likes of us move overseas. We can get a bit tired of the 'rut' some previous friends get into. But that's not the only reason.

I've been in Chiang Mai (Mae Rim) for near on 5 years and it's home for now. I do miss the diving around the islands in the Philippines but if it's really annoying/nagging me I can pop down to Krabi.

Haven't been back to NZ for over 7 years and have no real craving to do so. Sure I miss the clean air, great dairy food, white wine and excellent seafood but it's not cheap to live there. The tax nazis are terrible too.

So for now it's CM for me. Should the Thai government/junta make life unbearable then perhaps Cambodia will beckon me. But NZ is definitely not on the game card. It's a nice place to visit though.

Sandy Freckle · February 11, 2017

Question 1(the OP's heading question) - No way..., Chiang Mai is nice enough to visit during the southern Australian winter..., at best for me CM is a compromise...., I can use CM as a reasonably pleasant base to travel outwards to other parts of LOS or Myanmar, Lao, Cambodia, Vietnam, Malaysia and Indonesia while living off off the rental proceeds of my Australian home....., but best of all, I get to go home when I choose..., to a 'relatively' orderly, coherent, uncorrupted, predictable and very, very unpolluted Australia. Why would I give that up. Buy a book or join a library ? No contest.
Question 2(at the end of OP's post)...., please excuse me but, obviously a rhetorical question..., outside of a Chang Mai farang plebicite or referendum..., how can anyone know and or quantify an answer to this question ?

So I wonder, am I as an expa.textClipping

Edited February 11, 2017 by Sandy Freckle

opalred · February 11, 2017

i was first in Asia sent to nam and spent some time in los which it was very much so then

i retired to cm and with my perfect Thai wife i couldn't have made a better chose

as being oz like the warm weather

lived in many country's in the world

and i say if god wanted us to live in the cold country's

he would have put hair on us like a polar bear

after 14yrs here the people you meet always move on after a few years or months

most broke and broken heart finding the wrong girl

i have to add most payed a life membership fee to a cec club to find friends

have to say good luck nancy in Malaysia

i lived there for a few years as a Muslim and went close to going in a mental-home

cheers to cm

stament · February 11, 2017

10 hours ago, LivinLOS said:

GBP or euros yeah.. I find making money back there just easy.. I started a biz back there last year and its running on autopilot now while I am here, all projections are its going to be bigger than the last time I did the same thing, that one made mega in 5 years (I retired here at 28 with enough dough for this lifetime if I dont rage too hard).

I think thats also a big part of it, what age you are.. I think its a lot easier as someone who has had a full routine working life and want to take it easy, possibly with a cute younger wife etc and retire and wind down. Me I came here late 20s, been through a decade of every night nightlife in Patong, with the clifftop villa and party pad for full of gogo girls, and 5 or so years relaxing up here, playing with my motorbikes, dirtbiking Laos and Cambodia, things like that up here (even bought a bar there with the mia noi).. But at low 40s I am feeling like theres lots of 'action' I am missing out on by being here, being back there for more than just a visit made me realize I could be spending raceweek at Le Man, theres a sailplane / glider club just down the road from one of my bases, theres just so much more activity around europe which I could be doing. I guess I am saying if I am going to have a mid life crisis and buy a 911 my mid life crisis has more bang for its buck back there :)

That doesnt mean I am quitting here.. I have a nice 5 rai plot and I still intend to build a secure base there which I will regularly return to over the years. But right now I feel like its too slow here for year round living.

good on you, I wish I could make money that easily. If I did I would be retired now!

drbill · February 11, 2017

7 hours ago, NancyL said:

I wasn't going to respond. As a rule, I find it distasteful when foreigners refer to themselves as "farangs" or even worse (farlang?) and forget that non-white foreigners make their home in Chiang Mai, too. In fact, Chiang Mai Immigration reports that the second largest nationality for retirement extensions are Japanese people.

I'd like to clear up a false report that I will be moving to Kuala Lumpur later this year. Argh. No, Hubby and I are planning to continue our retirement in Kota Kinabalu (KK), Sabah state, Borneo. Use Google to learn more.

We've been here in Chiang Mai since 2008 and have certainly considered it our "home" during that time. Our "only home". We don't own property anywhere else. Haven't returned to the U.S. and have traveled outside Thailand just for short periods since then. We've been very involved in the community -- Rotary, Ladies Lunch, CEC, Lanna Care Net, etc. If these aren't the actions of people who consider Chiang Mai to be a "permanent home", I don't know what is. This has been our pattern wherever we have lived and we've lived in Chiang Mai longer than we have in many other places.

It's not a matter of whether you plan to stay in one location forever, but rather what you contribute while you're there. If you make a place better than when you arrived, then it's home.

Nancy, I'm not new to CM but have only recently attended CEC meetings and want to say thank you for making me feel very much at home within the first few minutes of my first biweekly breakfast meeting. I wish you and your husband my best wishes for happiness in Kota Kinabalu.