copd anyone?

[jamden]

any one here have COPD and how are you dealing with it?

[sinbin]

I assume  you may have it? Are you 100% sure it is COPD?

[jamden]

yes according to hospital

[Thanyaburi Mac]

I've been seeing  Dr. Paneda Chandapasa, M.D.  at the Vibhavadi Hospital's Respiratory Center for several years now for Adult Onset Asthma and mild, she says, COPD.

 

For a while I was on Symbiccort then last year she switched me to Seretide Evohaler 25/50, both of which work quite well.   I've not had a breathing problem for 5-6 years now.

 

Mac

 

 

[jamden]

I'm on Seroflo 25/50 but now not help much, do you still smoke?

 

[sinbin]

1 hour ago, jamden said:

yes according to hospital

I just wrote a large reply and lost it. Anyways I'll cut this short. Do not take your doctors word as being fact. Get a second, third or tenth opinion before you accept your condition. I did and I never had what doctors were telling me. So anyone with a chest problem ie cough or wheezing then get another opinion. You may well have a gut bacteria problem instead. I did caused by H Pylori bacteria. I had it eradicated and my pulmonary problems went also. I'm open to questions.

 

 

Quote

 

New hope for lung disease sufferers... in a stomach bug: Bacteria that is common among patients with pulmonary conditions is detected by a simple breath test and can treated with antibiotics

• The bacteria helicobacter pylori often found in pulmonary disease patients
• It can be detected with a simple breath test and treated with antibiotics
• May point to new ways of tackling chronic obstructive pulmonary disease
• Levels of the bacteria up to three times higher in COPD patients, study finds 

 

New studies have found that levels of the bacteria are up to three times higher in people with COPD.

Disabling lung disease may be triggered by a common stomach bug, groundbreaking research has found. 

The bacteria helicobacter pylori, which is involved in the development of stomach ulcers, has been found to be common in patients with chronic obstructive pulmonary disease (COPD).

The findings may point the way to new ways of tackling COPD, because H. pylori can be detected with a breath test and treated with antibiotics.

New studies have found that levels of the bacteria are up to three times higher in people with COPD, and one theory is that infection in childhood may affect the growth of the lungs, making them more vulnerable to disease.

The discovery, say researchers, could open up the way for new preventive strategies.

‘Our findings raise the tantalising possibility that early eradication of helicobacter pylori in childhood may enable full development of lungs and reduce the risk of COPD later on in life,’ says Professor Don Sin, head of respiratory medicine, St Paul’s Hospital and Professor of Medicine at University of British Columbia, Canada, and senior author of a paper in the medical journal Thorax.

COPD is an umbrella term that includes emphysema and chronic bronchitis. It is the fifth-biggest killer and the second most common cause of emergency hospital admissions, and all types lead to severe narrowing and damage to the airways. It affects more than a million Britons

Smoking is the main cause of COPD, but researchers are now suggesting a role for H. pylori. The bacteria was identified in 1982 but genetic studies have suggested it has been present in humans for 58,000 years.

It mainly colonises the stomach, but evidence is accumulating that it is found at other sites too, including the ears, nose, skin and even the eyes.

It is now known to be responsible for stomach ulcers and to increase the risk of stomach cancer. But it has also been linked to a larger number of other diseases, most involving inflammation.

A new research review in the World Journal Of Gastroenterology lists associations with a wide range of diseases, including colon cancer, larynx cancer, lymphomas, rosacea, glaucoma, gall bladder disease, auto immune diseases, iron deficiency anaemia, and several conditions of the skin, ears, nose and throat.

Four new studies have now added to the list by linking the bacteria with COPD. Specialists at Tianjin Medical University in China analysed data on 15,000 people including 2,000 with COPD, and found that H. pylori infection was associated with a twofold increased risk of COPD. In addition, doctors at the University of Jinan-Shandong Academy of Medical Sciences, China, gathered data on more than 1,000 people, and showed that those with chronic bronchitis were three times more likely to be infected with the bacteria.

One in five tested positive for H. pylori, and each of these patients had poorer lung function and higher levels of inflammation than those who were uninfected.

And writing in the Medical Journal Of Cairo University, Dr Nahla Khattab and his team say that H. pylori stimulates the release of cytokines, immune system compounds that have an inflammatory effect.

When the infection is eradicated, cytokine levels return to normal.

Dr Khattab suggested: ‘Activation of inflammation by H. pylori infection might be the mechanism of the disease.’

Dr Steve Holmes, medical adviser for the British Lung Foundation, warns: ‘These are interesting studies and have found an association, but that does not mean one causes the others. We have a long way to go before we can say H. pylori is a cause of COPD.’

He added: ‘Having said that, we did not know until 30 or so years ago that stomach ulcers were caused by H. pylori.’

 

 

[jamden]

Thank you so much for the info, I had never heard of this before and will ask for this test

[jamden]

can I ask which hospital did the test and found the bacteria you had?

[sinbin]

1 hour ago, jamden said:

Thank you so much for the info, I had never heard of this before and will ask for this test

I have time now I will tell you my story.

About 2 years ago I developed a bad wheeze and a persistent cough. I saw a couple of doctors and I was told I had Bronchitis and treated accordingly. The symptoms persisted. Meds didn't work. Went to a larger hospital and told I had Asthma. I saw 4-5 doctors over a period of time at that hospital who just kept giving me x-rays, meds etc. I told them Seretide and Ventoline didn't work. I was told I wasn't taking the meds properly.

I then went private to St Mary's in Korat. The specialist sent me for a Spirometer test. It showed I didn't have Asthma. He said the test was done wrong. I then had a MRI scan. No problems found. Doctor told me I had to live with it.

Next I went to the Suranaree Military (Government) hospital in Korat. Saw a Pulmonary specialist there. He too said I had Asthma. Upon seeing the MIR scan and the Spirometer test results from St Mary's he was kinda puzzled. He sent me for a second Spirometer test which also said I didn't have Asthma. He gave me 6 months meds and told me to come back after the course finished. In the meantime he asked me to go to Suranaree University of Technology, just outside of Korat, and see a Gastroenterologist and have a Endoscopy done. I wasted no time and had that done. Nothing visual was found to be wrong. The Gastroenterologist took a sample of my gut bacteria. The reading was high for H Pylori bacteria. He put me on a 2 week course of antibiotics used basically for this bacteria eradication. The side affects are not good. I was told to stop all other meds

At the end of the course, 2 weeks, my wheeze and cough had basically all but disappeared. 2 weeks after that, now one month, I had to report back  to the Gastroenterologist. My symptoms were completely gone now. I was retested and confirmed H Pylori free. I'm an happy bunny and have been cough/wheeze free for 3-4 months.

Jamden, a stool sample can be taken to any testing clinic to find if you have the H Pylori bacteria. It's estimated about 50% of the worlds population is infected with this bacteria. Everyone needs to read up about this horrendous bacteria and the problems it can/may cause. The jury is still out as testing is still ongoing. For me eradicating it worked.

[sinbin]

A question  some may ask is 'how does a gut bacteria cause a persistent (Asthma like) cough/wheezing?' The basic answer is that they believe it is caused by acid reflux/GERD. Whereby the stomach acids and bacteria are passed into the esophagus. Tests are still on going. The 2 Aussie doctors who discovered this bacteria being the cause of Stomach Ulcers were awarded the Nobel Prize for Medicine if I remember correctly. Read the Google story. Very interesting.

 

Edit: I don't think one can get a test to confirm H Pylori by breath in Thailand. A stool sample will do fine. Cost, no more than 500 Baht.

[Sheryl]

Although asthma and COPD are different conditions, spirometry is also the gold standard for diagnosis of COPD.

 

Specifically, COPD is diagnosed based on abnormal spirometry results which are not improved by use of bronchodilators.

 

 

[sinbin]

58 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

Although asthma and COPD are different conditions, spirometry is also the gold standard for diagnosis of COPD.

 

Specifically, COPD is diagnosed based on abnormal spirometry results which are not improved by use of bronchodilators.

 

 

Even though my 2 Spirometry test showed normal readings they were still seen as abnormal due to the wheezing and coughing I had, indicating something wrong. Something should have showed up. It didn't.

I've yet to find out whether the Pulmonary specialist who advised me to go for a H Pylori test was guessing or knew of the connection, or was the Endoscopy a shot in the dark? I find out 4 April.

[jamden]

This is fantastic info Sinbin and i will be talking with my Doctor asap, again thank you so much.

[sinbin]

I'm sorry if I'm boring some but I think it's important for all who are told they have some medical condition to ensure you really have it. Just because a doctor tells you have it doesn't mean you have. I wasted about 2 years of being treated by many doctors for the wrong thing. Never again.

 

Quote

 

A third of asthma patients may not actually have the disorder, according to new research published Tuesday in the Journal of the American Medical Association (JAMA).

The researchers surveyed 613 randomly-selected asthma patients who were receiving treatment across Canada. They found that 203 of the patients – 33 percent of the survey – didn’t have the condition and were needlessly taking medications. Of the patients whose medical records could be accessed, the researchers found half had not been properly tested before being diagnosed.

If someone has asthma-like symptoms, they may seek a physician to determine the cause, said Shawn Aaron, an asthma doctor at the Ottawa Hospital Research Institute who led the study. These signs can include wheezing, chronic airway obstruction and shortness of breath, but they are not always asthma.

“Without any testing, a physician might say ‘gee that sounds like asthma, here, take this inhaler,’” Aaron continued, but that’s not the way things should go.

Medical guidelines call on doctors to request a spirometry report, which confirms how well a patient’s lungs are working, rather than simply relying on reported symptoms. These tests should happen before doctors hand out prescriptions, based on these guidelines.

“But there are no regulations,” Aaron said. “Doctors ultimately have a lot of power to practice the way they want to.”

Misdiagnosis, however, may not shoulder all the blame. Some of the survey patients may have had asthma that has since become inactive, but they have continued taking medicine.

Canadian and American asthma treatment guidelines suggest that doctors reassess their patients’ symptoms periodically. If a patient’s asthma symptoms are under control, the physician could taper down treatment. “But in reality most doctors are not doing this,” Aaron said. Aaron himself admits to being part of group. Sometimes physicians assume that if a patient isn’t having health problems, their treatment must be working.

Overdiagnosis, which occurs in a variety of medical fields, can have lasting negative impacts for asthma patients. For example, a Nova Scotia woman had to go to the emergency room after feeling fatigued and experiencing dangerously low blood pressure. Doctors discovered that her asthma treatment –inhaled steroids–had shut off her adrenal glands. She had never taken the appropriate tests to validate her asthma diagnosis.

That story “highlights one of the side effects — that [these drugs] can suppress your own natural ability to make these hormones,” said Brian Christman, an asthma doctor at Vanderbilt University who was not involved in the study. “Although these medicines have a great safety records, they’re not entirely benign.”

Aaron and Christman both cited convenience as a reason that doctors skip spirometry reports before prescribing asthma medication. However, Aaron notes, it would be considered absurd for a diabetes doctor to prescribe medication without clinically confirming the disorder.

Of the surveyed patients who had an asthma diagnosis without active asthma, a third had nothing wrong with them at all. Two percent had serious health conditions like heart disease or pulmonary hypertension, and 65 percent had minor health conditions like allergies.

Christman and Aaron agree that asthma medication is critically important and has saved many lives. But the new study highlights the prevalence of misdiagnoses.

 

 

[Naam]

21 hours ago, sinbin said:

I just wrote a large reply and lost it. Anyways I'll cut this short. Do not take your doctors word as being fact. Get a second, third or tenth opinion before you accept your condition. I did and I never had what doctors were telling me. So anyone with a chest problem ie cough or wheezing then get another opinion. You may well have a gut bacteria problem instead. I did caused by H Pylori bacteria. I had it eradicated and my pulmonary problems went also. I'm open to questions.

thanks a lot for your extremely interesting contribution! i was also diagnosed with COPD which more or less appeared within a period of weeks caused by (according to specialists) an allergy (causing a lot of phlegm in the lungs) of unkown source.

 

could you tell us more what kind of antibiotics and any other detail were used to cure you?

[Naam]

2 hours ago, jamden said:

This is fantastic info Sinbin and i will be talking with my Doctor asap, again thank you so much.

i second that whole-heartedly!

[Naam]

19 hours ago, Sheryl said:

Although asthma and COPD are different conditions, spirometry is also the gold standard for diagnosis of COPD.

 

Specifically, COPD is diagnosed based on abnormal spirometry results which are not improved by use of bronchodilators.

 

 

pardon my layman's logic Sheryl which says "spirometry" is worthless if the bronchial obstruction is caused e.g. by bacteria (TVmember Sinbin) or (like in my case) an allergy which clogs the lungs with phlegm that absorbs any inhaled bronchodilators. over the last five years spirometry results showed huge differences. a few years ago i experienced days when i couldn't walk 25 meters without pausing a minute but also days when i was able to "jog" around my pool 25 times.

[sinbin]

1 hour ago, Naam said:

could you tell us more what kind of antibiotics and any other detail were used to cure you?

To cleans my body of the H Pylori bacteria I just took the antibiotics that the Gastroenterologist prescribed. They weren't pleasant regarding side affects  but I was determined to sort out my medical condition. I don't appear to have kept a copy of the antibiotics that cleansed me but each doctor will use different anyway. The course of antibiotics is about 14 days. A stool test to confirm eradication is done 2-3 weeks post antibiotic course.

 

Quote

 

Combination drug therapy regimens commonly used to treat an H. pylori infection include the following options:

• A proton pump inhibitor (PPI) plusclarithromycinplusamoxicillin or metronidazole
• A proton pump inhibitor plus a bismuth compound plus metronidazole plustetracycline

 

 

 

My course of antibiotics consisted of 3 meds. Cost 2,669 Baht (Government Hospital price) and a, approx, 500 Baht stool test to confirm eradication.

God knows how much money I wasted over 2 years with a MIR scan, 2 Spirometer tests, Asthma medications, multiple X-rays, Bronchial medication etc etc. Doctors are not Gods and can get it wrong sometimes. In my case I knew all were wrong in stating that I had Asthma.

 

 

Edit: I'm almost sure these were the medicines I took for the course.

 

Quote

Twice-daily, 10-day triple therapy with omeprazole, amoxicillin, and clarithromycin for Helicobacter pylori eradication in duodenal ulcer disease: results of three multicenter, double-blind, United States trials.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9820381

 

[jamden]

Hi sinbin,

I just wanted to let you know how I got on regarding the ''H pylori'' test, I first went to a large inter Hospital and was quoted 3000-5000 Baht, I refused but had to pay 400Baht for Doctor consultation, I then checked with another and was quoted 3000 Bt, finally I checked with another and was quoted 800 Baht which I accepted, unfortunatly my test was negative so I am still in a poor breathing state.

The next step is to have a ''spirometry test''.

I will say that your advice and info was wonderful and thank you so much.

James

[sinbin]

You should have gone to a government hospital for the test. 50 Baht to see the doctor and approx 500 for the test. Did they do the stool test or blood sample?

[jamden]

I had the blood test, I know the government hospitals are cheap but usually most of the day waiting especially this time as many people go because of he flu or a cold and I would most likely get the same.

[sinbin]

8 hours ago, jamden said:

I had the blood test,

The blood test doesn't really tell you if you have H Pylori. It just tells if you're body is producing antibodies. Should have had the stool test.

 

Quote

 

Blood Tests

• Blood tests are used to measure antibodies to H. pylori. Antibodies are proteins made by the body's immune system when it detects harmful substances such as bacteria.
• Blood tests for H. pylori can only tell if your body has H. pylori antibodies. It cannot tell if you have a current infection or how long you have had it. This is because the test can be positive for years, even if the infection is cured. As a result, blood tests cannot be used to see if the infection has been cured after treatment.

 

•  

 

You'll be hard pushed to be waiting more than 2 hours at Suranaree Military or Suranaree Uni Hospital in Korat. You should have gone and found a drop in independent testing lab. There  are loads here in Thailand.

Anyway now you go for a Spirometery test. Both my tests indicated nothing wrong and both were ruled out as being in error because the doctors could hear my cough and wheezing. Therefore it should have shown on the test result but didn't. So in my case my Spirometery tests didn't show any ailment. Which baffled the doctors.

 

Good luck in where you go from here.

[Sheryl]

The limitation of the blood test is that a positive result cannot distinguish between current and past infection.

A negative result-- which seems to be what he had -- on the ither hand means you do not have h.pylori infection now and never did in the past. The only situation in which you might have negative result yet actually have the infection would be if you had just become newly infected and not yet had time to form antibodies. This would not be the case for anyone whose respiratory symptoms were due to gerd/ h. Pylori