UK TV's for wife and daughter

[Baricello]

I recently applied for UK Visas for my wife and daughter, for a ten day holiday for us. We did it through an Agent who charged 16K Baht plus Visa costs for application and translation services. The documents the Agency wanted were identification docs, and a letter from the Education Authority confirming my wife's employment as she is a Government Schoolteacher. No other documents were said as being necessary.

After flying from Udon to Bkk for the interview, which surprisingly didn't include me, the docs were accepted and we paid for express courier service for the passports/visas to be delivered to our home.

We have received refusal notifications, citing not showing sufficient evidence of financial ability to fund the trip, me being Sponsor.

I am about to re apply and would be grateful for any help. We have been married for six years, have a five year old daughter and I am on a marriage Visa.

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[samsensam]

 

an observation; a friend's university student daughters are applying for tourist visas to the uk. the form and process, while long winded, seem fairly straight forward. 16k baht seems an awful lot to pay someone to this for you, especially if the 'agent' is giving you inaccurate/misleading information?

[Baricello]

Thank you, and what am I to glean from your observation, other than what I know already?
Very little I assume!

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[theoldgit]

Seems you were given duff advice, and also paid through the nose for it.

 

Your wife as the applicant has to satisfy the Entry Clearance Officer, the decision maker, that her proposed visit was genuine, affordable and that, on the balance of probability, she would return home at the conclusion of her holiday.

 

Your "agent" should have mapped out the documentation she needed to satisfy the ECO, just remember it's her application not your, it doesn't seem like they've done so.

 

The evidence of her employment is fine, and it goes part of the way to indicating that she would return, but, as you've found out, she needed much more.

 

She should have outlined in a covering letter the reasons for her trip and how it would be funded, you should have provided evidence that you were funding the trip, bank statements, proof of income and the like, as you are living here as a married couple you should have also outlined your family circumstances, including your plans for the future.

 

As for documentation, as I say the details of her employment are fine, but she should have also included details of her income and living arrangements as well as her marital status. You should have enclosed a copy of your passport and immigration status, and, as I've mentioned earlier, evidence that you are able to fund the trip. 

 

It's a shame you used this agent and you will be aware, there's no right of appeal.

 

When your wife went to the Visa Application Centre, it's not an interview it's just a glorified mail drop, though they do carry out a cursory glance of the documents submitted, you're not allowed in, being there would have added nothing.

 

She'll need to apply again including the required evidence, I've included a check list that may be helpful, she might want to add a short para describing the reasons for the failed application.

 

It might be helpful if you posted a copy of the refusal notice, removing reference numbers and personal details first, the guys might be able to offer more specific advice.

 

You also might find this pinned topic helpful  

 

Visitor Supporting Documents Guide.pdf

[Baricello]

Theoldgit,
Thank you kindly for your very constructive and extremely helpful reply, it is really much appreciated.
Hindsight is a wonderful thing, shame it's wasted on the Shortsighted!
Once again, sincere thanks, you've given me everything I need for a successful re-application.

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[7by7]

8 hours ago, Baricello said:

I recently applied for UK Visas for my wife and daughter, for a ten day holiday for us

What is your nationality?

 

If you are British then it is possible that your daughter is, too. You can use this tool to check.

 

In which case you should get her a British passport as strictly speaking she cannot be granted a UK visa because it is illegal to place a time limit on a British citizen's stay in the UK: see

 

[Baricello]

Thank you 7by7, it appears from your link that my daughter is indeed a British citizen by descent!

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[Baricello]

To 7by7,
It appears straightforward and easy for my daughter's UK passport, and I'll then just do the re-application my wife's visa. I will try to make the two applications in one visit to Bangkok! Thanks again.

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[post]

5 minutes ago, Baricello said:

I will try to make the two applications in one visit to Bangkok!

Just a matter of interest: Isn't the child's application of British passport supposed to be made by post (to the UK)?  Does the Embassy in BKK nowadays accept such applications? 

[Baricello]

All passport aplications have to be processed by the same third party Agency that processes Visa applications at the "Trendy Building" Bangkok!

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[brewsterbudgen]

Just a matter of interest: Isn't the child's application of British passport supposed to be made by post (to the UK)?  Does the Embassy in BKK nowadays accept such applications? 

The passport will be issued in Liverpool by HMPO but you submit the application and collect the passport at The Trendy in Bangkok. It's a fairly painless and surprisingly quick process.

[Baricello]

I beg to differ, but no processes in Thailand are relatively "quick and painless"!

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[Baricello]

Albeit very few!

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[brewsterbudgen]

I beg to differ, but no processes in Thailand are relatively "quick and painless"!

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Albeit very few!

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I did say "relatively"! I was expecting the worst but got my son's UK passport in around 3 weeks.

[Baricello]

"Relatively" being the operative word, the exception rather than the rule!

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[7by7]

7 hours ago, Baricello said:

Thank you 7by7, it appears from your link that my daughter is indeed a British citizen by descent!

Remember that she should use her Thai passport to enter Thailand on your return; if she enters Thailand with her British passport she will be treated as a British citizen for immigration purposes.

 

This is commonly referred to as the 'passport swap.'

 

Thailand to UK:

When checking in, show airline her British passport so they know she can enter the UK without restriction.

At Thai passport control show her Thai passport so they know she hasn't overstayed.

On arrival in UK show UK immigration her British passport.

 

UK to Thailand:

When checking in show airline her Thai passport so they know she can enter Thailand without restriction.

Passports are not routinely checked on leaving the UK, but if asked to do so show UK immigration her British passport so they know she has not overstayed.

On arrival in Thailand, show Thai immigration her Thai passport.

 

My wife and daughter have done this many times without any problems; except once when my daughter completed her Thai landing card in English and a Thai immigration officer told her to do it again in Thai!

[Baricello]

Extremely helpful information 7by7, this will be very valuable to us, much obliged for your time and consideration!

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[grankboy]

Surely the visa agent should have told you that your daughter can't apply for a Uk visa as she is British, saw another case just last week.

The agents only want money I guess.

[Baricello]

Not necessarily, because I was using my daughter's Thai passport!

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[Baricello]

But I agree about the money part most definitely!

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[zoza]

if you have access to a computer and printer you should do the application yourself

as the "Agent" has failed miserably to inform you of the documents needed and should

give you your 16k back.

you need bank statements and letters to confirm you and your wives financial position

and proves you have the funds to cover this trip, plus marriage certificate and a travel

+ health insurance which is very cheap.

the next thing is make sure VFS submit all the documents and not put some back in

the folder without saying anything to your wife (I had them try this twice)

the second time I was allowed in with my wife but I had to make a lot of noise and

even then they tried to leave all the financial documents out of the application again.

best of luck . but with all the help you can get on here you should stroll through it.

[Baricello]

Thanks, I have since made an appointment for a re-application for my wife, and a UK passport application for my daughter. Both applications to be submitted at the same appointment with VFS.

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[brewsterbudgen]

Not necessarily, because I was using my daughter's Thai passport!

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But they would still refuse the visa once they know your nationality as her father.

[Baricello]

You obviously don't realise, she doesn't need a visa if she has a UK passport!

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[brewsterbudgen]

7 minutes ago, Baricello said:

You obviously don't realise, she doesn't need a visa if she has a UK passport!

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My comment was in regard to your comment about how would they know if she's a UK citizen, if you had applied for a UK visa using her Thai passport.  I was pointing out that when checking your citizenship details on her application, they would tell you that you have to apply for a UK passport, as they can't issue visas to UK citizens. 

[Baricello]

There was no comment as to her being a UK citizen, as she wasn't at the time of application!

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[theoldgit]

5 minutes ago, Baricello said:

There was no comment as to her being a UK citizen, as she wasn't at the time of application!

She was a UK Citizen, and as the previous poster has pointed out, it would have been picked up when the ECO checked your citizenship and the fact she was your daughter.
I'm assuming you mean that she didn't have a UK Passport, that fact alone doesn't stop her being a UK Citizen. 

[Baricello]

The point I was maki

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[Baricello]

Making, was at the time of application, my daughter was not applying as a UK citizen, as she only qualified eligibility by descent, regardless of passport possession!

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[7by7]

6 hours ago, Baricello said:

at the time of application, my daughter was not applying as a UK citizen, as she only qualified eligibility by descent, regardless of passport possession!

A British passport proves the holder is a British citizen; but obtaining one does not make one a British citizen. One has to be British in order to get one!

 

The only difference I'm aware of between a British citizen by descent and a British citizen not by descent is that the former's children will only be automatically British if they are born in the UK or a qualifying territory, whereas the latter's children will be automatically British wherever they are born.

 

So, if you are British not by descent, your daughter has been British since her birth. I assume you used the tool I linked to earlier to check this before applying for her passport.

 

In which case her application should have been refused due to her British citizenship and not for any other reason, even though she did not have a British passport at the time. Future applications should also be refused for the same reason.

 

Although ECOs do not always spot this: UK Visa for child entitled to UK Citizenship

Quote

A child who is a British citizen ( in this case, by descent) cannot be issued with a visit visa for the UK, even in a Thai passport. We know that applications for visit visas are made to the UKVI in Bangkok, and are accepted as valid applications. We also know that visit visas are sometimes issued by ECOs, but it is not legally possible. By saying “we” I mean the generic “we”, that is many of us here, as I’m sure a few of the members here have had visit visas issued to their British citizen children on their Thai passports.

The law does not allow an ECO ( or an immigration officer) to restrict admission to the UK to British citizens, or to impose a time limit on their stay, as British citizens automatically have the right of abode in the UK. Therefore, an ECO cannot issue a visa which restricts the child’s stay in the UK to 6 months. What should happen is that, firstly, VFS should refuse to accept the application ( but I doubt that they are even aware of the legalities involved). If the application gets past VFS, then the ECO should refuse to consider it. That, basically, is it.

What should actually happen is ( assuming the child holds only a Thai passport) that the applicant ( or parent) should be told to apply for either a British passport for the child, or for a Certificate of Entitlement to The Right of Abode. The visit visa application cannot be considered as it is unlawful to do so.

A CoE to the ROA costs 289 GBP.

If a child already holds a British passport, then a CoE cannot be issued, even into a Thai passport.

 

However, as you have already applied for a British passport for her the point in your case is moot.