Trump set to reverse Obama rules on transgender bathrooms

[maewang99]

the Artic will be ice free in 10 years... but hey, we got bathroom privileges to sort out.

[LandOfWiles]

1 minute ago, maewang99 said:

the Artic will be ice free in 10 years... but hey, we got bathroom privileges to sort out.

There's around seven billion of us. I am sure we can work on several things at once. 

[LandOfWiles]

32 minutes ago, simon43 said:

I think the problem is that if a man says that he identifies as a woman, then he can use the female toilets.  

 

I read a news report where a man who appeared totally male claimed that he identified as a woman, and therefore he could use the female toilets.

 

Believe it or not, there are 'straight' men out there who would love to exploit this legislation and claim their right to enter a female toilet for purposes other than taking a pee.

There are definitely some things where the costs outweigh the benefits - gun ownership in the USA would be an obvious example. However, I don't think transgender people using the ladies toilets is one.  You can also note that Thais mainly use this system without any real issues.  

Edited February 24, 2017 by LandOfWiles

[Scott]

1 hour ago, Grouse said:

I really need to do some research into this

 

For me, if you have a Y chromosome you're male.

 

How can homosexuality be "inherited"

 

It seems to me that it is a "defect"; how could it be anything else?

 

I will read up on it.....

Transgender people are not necessarily homosexual.   I know a few transgender and some are straight and some are bi and some are gay.  

[55Jay]

America is still a Center-Right country but that is changing. One example is the  Gay/Lesbian Community, which got sick and tired of being the brunt of jokes, discrimination and worse, so it went on the offensive in the late 90's (thereabouts) and became an organized, highly effective, in-your-face social and political force.   You can see, hear and feel the change in attitude with the current generation coming up, including current, mid-range adults, like me, brought up in the late 70/80's.  That's a good thing.  Even folks who are just neutral about it all now, can be considered a victory in the overall social re-programming campaign. 

 

Social/political change is cyclic, so when the stars align in your favor, you gotta go for it and strike while the iron's hot.  I do feel, however, that we've seen the natural innings on this genre, but the organizers have become tone deaf.  Finger off the pulse of a fatigued nation.

 

In the last 2 years or so of Obama's term, among other big pendulum swings, feminist and gay lobbying groups knew the clock was running out, and started throwing the rest of their mud on the wall to see what else would stick.  The dizzying array of gender/sexual pref related acronyms, Bruce Jenner, women in direct combat and elite special forces units.....  even my head started to spin and when that happens, I've had enough and want off the ride for a while. 

 

The "which bathroom" battle ground is, IMO, a good example of one of those 11th Hour Hail Mary Mud Slings that's lost momentum and seems about ready to back-fire. 

[Credo]

Here's something interesting:

LGBT

More GOP politicians have been arrested for sexual misconduct in bathrooms than trans people

 

 

http://deadstate.org/more-gop-politicians-have-been-arrested-for-sexual-misconduct-in-bathrooms-than-trans-people/

 

 

[Grouse]

2 hours ago, LandOfWiles said:

Evolution is just a long list of "defects". 

But this particular "defect" would seem to mitigate against inheritance....

[Scott]

2 minutes ago, Grouse said:

But this particular "defect" would seem to mitigate against inheritance....

Continue to use the word defect and you will receive a suspension.  

[LandOfWiles]

26 minutes ago, Grouse said:

But this particular "defect" would seem to mitigate against inheritance....

Yes, this is well-known paradox that is addressed in the article I linked to above (hint hint). 

[Tapster]

I haven't read anything about the practical aspects of being transgender, with regard to clothing.

 

If one has struggled with life as male and now identifies as female, that transition would normally be reflected in the way that the person dressed. Therefore, the transgender person who dressed as a woman would use the women's toilets. She would lock herself into the toilet stall and do her business privately, using whatever tackle she had available (pre-or post-op).

 

Likewise, transgender people who identify as male would be dressed as male and use male toilets (stalls, not urinals).

 

Nobody would be waving their dick at anyone, and there's no way that a straight man, dressed as a man, would have access to a female toilet. It simply wouldn't happen because the gender identification would determine the clothes which would determine the toilet used.

 

The whole issue of straight men abusing this Obama recommendation is a red herring. In practice, a straight man would have to dress up as a woman to get access to a women's toilet. That could happen now, with or without the Obama recommendation.

 

There's little discussion on here about the way transgender people might feel about this. They want to be seen as normal, while identifying as the gender they feel most comfortable as. If a male was in the agonising process of discovering and working through a gender transition, he'd use the male toilets until he started to dress as a woman, after which he'd use the women's toilets. Transgender people would only ever want to use the toilet dictated by the way they dress, so as to feel comfortable.

 

If you force people always to use the toilet of their birth gender, you'd get exactly what most people on this forum say that they don't want: some people in men's clothes using the women's toilet and vice versa. That would definitely open the way to abuse, as straight men in men's clothes could walk into the women's toilet with impunity (possibly threatening women) and transgender people in women's clothes would have to use the male toilets and possibly be at threat from men.

 

 

[Jingthing]

It's even worse than that. The transphobic agenda is about making it almost impossible for trangender people to exist in the public world. You hear it often in their ignorant hate speech ... just hold it in and only use your toilet at home. Doing this to children -- DISGUSTING. 

 

Consider the feelings and experiences of transgender people. It's called COMPASSION. That's easy for me to do even though I've always identified with my birth gender. It's not so easy for me to imagine why so many closed minded intolerant people want to hurt people just for differences like that. 

 

 

Edited February 24, 2017 by Jingthing

[rijb]

15 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

It's even worse than that. The transphobic agenda is about making it almost impossible for trangender people to exist in the public world. You hear it often in their ignorant hate speech ... just hold it in and only use your toilet at home. Doing this to children -- DISGUSTING. 

I'm confused.  Who's stopping children from going to the bathroom?  What's disgusting?

[Grouse]

6 hours ago, LandOfWiles said:

I would recommend starting with this article. 

 

http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-26089486

Thanks for that!

 

Imteresting read

 

I can at least understand how such genes might continue

[Grouse]

4 hours ago, Scott said:

Continue to use the word defect and you will receive a suspension.  

What is the appropriate word for a gene which has received some random change? I was not intending to be derogatory in any way. In fact I found an article that was recommended to be very educational.

[Dagnabbit]

2 hours ago, Jingthing said:

It's even worse than that. The transphobic agenda is about making it almost impossible for trangender people to exist in the public world. You hear it often in their ignorant hate speech ... just hold it in and only use your toilet at home. Doing this to children -- DISGUSTING. 

 

Consider the feelings and experiences of transgender people. It's called COMPASSION. That's easy for me to do even though I've always identified with my birth gender. It's not so easy for me to imagine why so many closed minded intolerant people want to hurt people just for differences like that. 

 

 

Obama was trying to force schools to allow children to shower with members of the opposite sex.

 

That is disgusting.

 

Edited February 24, 2017 by Dagnabbit

[LandOfWiles]

7 minutes ago, Grouse said:

What is the appropriate word for a gene which has received some random change? I was not intending to be derogatory in any way. In fact I found an article that was recommended to be very educational.

Mutation is the common name. Mistake or defect would be fine when talking about a single cell that splits in two and leads to a DNA mismatch due to a copying error. But defect makes no sense at species level because it implies that there is some specification or upfront design to follow, which isn't true. 

[rijb]

4 hours ago, Jingthing said:

transphobic agenda

Couldn't find it in Google.  Do you have a copy?

[Tawan Dok Krating Daeng]

3 hours ago, Grouse said:

What is the appropriate word for a gene which has received some random change? I was not intending to be derogatory in any way. In fact I found an article that was recommended to be very educational.

 

Assuming that you are not trolling - you may consider that you are discussing a genetic condition or abnormality or 'defect'. You are not. You are discussing actual people. Calling real people abnormal or defective because they are LGBT is actual hate speech.

 

It is quite well established that LBGT people are responding to their genetic identity. Disputing this by saying LGBT people are making 'lifestyle choices' denies their reality and is also hate speech.

 

You may be pushing an anti-PC agenda, in which case you are trolling or you may be genuinely interested in the genetics issue, in which case there are ways of having a science based discussion without implying that LGBT people are abnormal. You should enable the reader to discriminate between the social and scientific uses of such words.

[Tawan Dok Krating Daeng]

12 hours ago, hdkane said:

Unless researchers can substantiate a real contribution of genetics to transexualism, then it's just a man/woman who is delusional and wants everyone else to play along...because liberals in the social sciences refuse to publish or conduct such research (such research might display real differences between sexes and race...surprise, people are not equal in all situations), the rest of us are expected to play along with the stupid mind game...if you have a penis, you're a man...if you have a vagina you're a woman...

 

Trump is spot on about this one

 

Research already has identified the genetic relationship to LGBT status. Take your anti-left crap elsewhere. This is about people's lives. If you are not LGBT or do not deal with LGBT issues, then it really is none of your affair. it certainly is not about liberalism or conservatism unless you are being intentionally provocative. Instead of flapping your gums about something you don't understand, go talk to a trans person or find out for yourself instead of spouting off ignorance - as amply demonstrated by your crass concluding statement.

[Tawan Dok Krating Daeng]

3 hours ago, Dagnabbit said:

Obama was trying to force schools to allow children to shower with members of the opposite sex.

 

That is disgusting.

 

 

You are clearly not LGBT. You clearly have no idea about LGBT issues. You clearly subscribe to a binary world despite vast evidence to the contrary. You may be too old to accept current reality. That's your problem. Don't pass that burden onto LGBT people who have enough to deal with.

 

Here is the link to the Memo from the DOJ under the Obama Administration. https://www2.ed.gov/about/offices/list/ocr/letters/colleague-201605-title-ix-transgender.pdf

 

It is far more than about bathrooms. It is about compliance with the law. Specifically Title IX of the Education Amendments 1972 that prohibits sex discrimination. You and those like you wish to control the debate by asserting a binary world. By doing so you deny the existence of LGBT people and deny them the right to dignity. It is a form of genocide. If you want to understand the sense of disgust, think about that. You could start with this Wikipedia entry: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_homosexuals_in_Nazi_Germany_and_the_Holocaust

[Scott]

7 hours ago, Grouse said:

What is the appropriate word for a gene which has received some random change? I was not intending to be derogatory in any way. In fact I found an article that was recommended to be very educational.

The word 'defect' has a negative connotation.   I would suggest that you use a term that is a little less emotionally charged, such as anomaly be used, but that said, it is probably well beyond the scope of this particular thread.    As I said, some transgender people are straight, some bi and some are gay.   Trans is really it's own category.

 

There is some research on the subject of sexuality and transgender, but there isn't anything definitive.   There is a book, written by a UK gal, who underwent a sex change in Thailand which might be of interest to you.   The book is Three Weddings and a Sex Change, by Kirsty Crow.   She currently works in Thailand.   It won't answer your questions, but might give some insight into it.

 

The point here is that regardless of the situation, everyone has to use the toilet.   Who we want seeing our 'junk' is probably the question, and that requires answering.   Most people go in, do their business and leave, paying little attention to who is around.   A reasonable level of privacy is what is required.   

[Jingthing]

So much for the naive silly people that thought trump was going to protect LGBT civil rights. 

Also, the hypocrisy of it.

Calling this a state's rights issue and now we hear the feds are going to go after marijuana users in the numerous states now where it is LEGAL. 

 

Quote

The health consequences of anti-transgender school policies at a state and local level are devastating. Research in 2016 found a significant link between lack of access to bathrooms for transgender students and acts of self-harm as a result of increased minority stress and stigmatization. According to the Williams Institute at the University of California, Los Angeles, transgender students often miss class or experience absences as a result of lack of facilities access. Fifty-four percent reported adverse health effects from trying to avoid using public restrooms, such as dehydration, kidney infections, and urinary tract infections; and 58 percent reported that they have avoided going out in public due to a lack of safe public restroom facilities.

 

http://www.advocate.com/commentary/2017/2/24/making-america-great-again-apparently-means-separate-equal

[Dumbastheycome]

I think  some people  are  just  taking  the piss ! 

[Dagnabbit]

Sanity

 

 

And not a single question was answered that day

Edited February 24, 2017 by Dagnabbit

[Jingthing]

The real Stephen Colbert --

 

 

 

[JimmyJ]

 

 

Edited February 26, 2017 by JimmyJ

[whatawonderfulday]

Personally I think Trump is only out to enhance his own ventures but in this instance he seems to have got it absolutely right by making sure these deviants face up to what they really are, males, and pee in the correct toilets.

[Jingthing]

Personally I think Trump is only out to enhance his own ventures but in this instance he seems to have got it absolutely right by making sure these deviants face up to what they really are, males, and pee in the correct toilets.

But females that look like and identify as men you want to use the women's room. Sure thing dude.

[rijb]

13 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

But females that look like and identify as men you want to use the women's room. Sure thing dude.

Objection!  Leading the witness.  

[Scott]

Off-topic posts removed.