Foreign tourist hangs herself in the toilet on the Lampang to Bangkok train

[redwinecheese]

extreme drug abuse certainly can lead to death in any form, overdose or extreme mental disorder, flying off building roofs etc.

Edited February 25, 2017 by redwinecheese
clarification

[GOLDBUGGY]

On ‎2‎/‎24‎/‎2017 at 4:47 AM, smedly said:

the report hasn't really said a lot to either believe or not to believe - they found a girl hanging in the toilet, as for the police and what they believe - well they are not pathologists and until a proper examination is carried out they are guessing more or less the same as anyone here on this forum can do.

 

Does it sound suspicious - personally I would have to say yes at this point based on very little and hope that a thorough professional investigation is carried out to completely rule out foul play

I think you did leave out one very important factor here. The toilet door was locked from the inside. Since most public toilets are made in such a way to prevent accidental locking, a person needs to be inside to lock this door.

 

I haven't travelled by train in Thailand yet, but from the trains I was on and if there is a window at all, it is usually very small and too small for someone to climb out of.

 

So since this person was found dead in the WC, and the door was locked from the inside, and there is no way for anyone else to escape, I think it is a pretty safe bet to call this one a suicide.

[smedly]

53 minutes ago, GOLDBUGGY said:

I think you did leave out one very important factor here. The toilet door was locked from the inside. Since most public toilets are made in such a way to prevent accidental locking, a person needs to be inside to lock this door.

 

I haven't travelled by train in Thailand yet, but from the trains I was on and if there is a window at all, it is usually very small and too small for someone to climb out of.

 

So since this person was found dead in the WC, and the door was locked from the inside, and there is no way for anyone else to escape, I think it is a pretty safe bet to call this one a suicide.

when people refer to door locks they normally mean something that requires a key - code or card to open - toilet doors are generally none of these and are very simple to lock and unlock from the outside using a small coin etc, there is also the option of climbing over the door

 

you can always call it what you want - that is entirely up to you, I personally would not be coming to any conclusion based on a simple toilet door latch

[GOLDBUGGY]

5 minutes ago, smedly said:

when people refer to door locks they normally mean something that requires a key - code or card to open - toilet doors are generally none of these and are very simple to lock and unlock from the outside using a small coin etc, there is also the option of climbing over the door

 

you can always call it what you want - that is entirely up to you, I personally would not be coming to any conclusion based on a simple toilet door latch

Have you ever been in a toilet on the airplane? It has to be locked from the inside and there is no way to climb over anything. There is a key to open it but very few have access to this key. Just like on a train.

 

Let me ask you another question. Here is what you are given. A young woman who at first appears to have been on drugs is found hanging in a Train Toilet Door which the door is locked and appears to be locked from the inside. There is no window or if there is one it is too small to climb out of. At first it appears to be a suicide.

 

Now the question for you. You are given a certain budget to which you must live by. This only allows you a limited amount of cases you can investigate. So for this case would you use part of this budget to investigate a case which is so obvious?

 

Sure! A Midget could have followed this woman to the toilet, held her at knife point, but did nothing to her or take any money except hang her on a toilet door without her fighting back or screaming for help. Then threw his chair out the window he needed to get to her height to hang her and then locked the door and jumped out of a moving train.

 

Why does every case have to be a Sherlock Holms Murder Mystery? Why can't an obvious suicide just be that?    

[smedly]

51 minutes ago, GOLDBUGGY said:

Have you ever been in a toilet on the airplane? It has to be locked from the inside and there is no way to climb over anything. There is a key to open it but very few have access to this key. Just like on a train.

 

 

talking nonsense, I am not going to discuss it with you because I don't like you and have no wish to have a long drawn out argument listening your usual  pile of <deleted> of trolling and baiting like you do on every thread I have ever seen you posting

 

now take a hint.....you know the rest

[LandOfWiles]

1 hour ago, smedly said:

when people refer to door locks they normally mean something that requires a key - code or card to open - toilet doors are generally none of these and are very simple to lock and unlock from the outside using a small coin etc, there is also the option of climbing over the door

 

you can always call it what you want - that is entirely up to you, I personally would not be coming to any conclusion based on a simple toilet door latch

"It took half an hour for railway staff to break in, according to Col. Songklod Pattanawaraporn of Noppawong Railway police."

 

http://www.khaosodenglish.com/news/crimecourtscalamity/calamity/2017/02/24/woman-hangs-hua-lamphong-bound-train/

 

I think the fact that it took 30 minutes to break in means that it wasn't a simple latch or the type of bathroom latch that can be unlocked from the outside (this type are normally found on domestic rather than public doors). 

[redwinecheese]

Never argue because people who like to argue not debate are arrogant they will never accept your clues.

[ukrules]

1 hour ago, GOLDBUGGY said:

Have you ever been in a toilet on the airplane? It has to be locked from the inside and there is no way to climb over anything. There is a key to open it but very few have access to this key. Just like on a train.

 

Let me ask you another question. Here is what you are given. A young woman who at first appears to have been on drugs is found hanging in a Train Toilet Door which the door is locked and appears to be locked from the inside. There is no window or if there is one it is too small to climb out of. At first it appears to be a suicide.

 

Now the question for you. You are given a certain budget to which you must live by. This only allows you a limited amount of cases you can investigate. So for this case would you use part of this budget to investigate a case which is so obvious?

 

Sure! A Midget could have followed this woman to the toilet, held her at knife point, but did nothing to her or take any money except hang her on a toilet door without her fighting back or screaming for help. Then threw his chair out the window he needed to get to her height to hang her and then locked the door and jumped out of a moving train.

 

Why does every case have to be a Sherlock Holms Murder Mystery? Why can't an obvious suicide just be that?    

 

You picked the wrong example when mentioning an airplane toilet.

 

I've seen this on many different types of aircraft over the years.

 

 

They are designed to be opened from outside and it's so easy you won't believe it if you don't already know this.

 

I have no idea if train doors work in the same way.

 

 

Edited February 25, 2017 by ukrules

[KhaoNiaw]

It's really easy to choke yourself from a door handle and it's not a rare way to commit suicide. 

To commit murder on a train you'd have to go to quite extraordinary lengths, even if you were part of the train staff. 

The priority here should be to identify the girl. From there the rest of the story may become clear. 

[bannork]

6 hours ago, ukrules said:

 

You picked the wrong example when mentioning an airplane toilet.

 

I've seen this on many different types of aircraft over the years.

 

 

They are designed to be opened from outside and it's so easy you won't believe it if you don't already know this.

 

I have no idea if train doors work in the same way.

 

 

The toilet she was found in was the old style toilet, a squat hole through to the tracks job. The lock is a bolt style lock, nothing like this plane lock which is presumably designed for emergency entry, a passenger sick or trying to blow up the plane.

Apart from the difficulties already mentioned by posters, how would the supposed killer get out through the toilet door having already locked it from the inside!?

[LandOfWiles]

9 hours ago, LandOfWiles said:

"It took half an hour for railway staff to break in, according to Col. Songklod Pattanawaraporn of Noppawong Railway police."

 

http://www.khaosodenglish.com/news/crimecourtscalamity/calamity/2017/02/24/woman-hangs-hua-lamphong-bound-train/

 

I think the fact that it took 30 minutes to break in means that it wasn't a simple latch or the type of bathroom latch that can be unlocked from the outside (this type are normally found on domestic rather than public doors). 

Actually,  the 30 minutes to break in was likely because the body was jamming the door. This might explain what appears to be red marks around the woman's waistline. 

[Srikcir]

10 minutes ago, LandOfWiles said:

Actually,  the 30 minutes to break in was likely because the body was jamming the door. This might explain what appears to be red marks around the woman's waistline. 

The woman was clothed and had "signs of lacerations to her right wrist."

No mention of red marks around her waistline that would not have been exposed.

But it does seem her body was blocking the door if she really hung herself from the door handle.

[LandOfWiles]

5 minutes ago, Srikcir said:

The woman was clothed and had "signs of lacerations to her right wrist."

No mention of red marks around her waistline that would not have been exposed.

But it does seem her body was blocking the door if she really hung herself from the door handle.

I was referring to the video, not the report. There appears to be red marks around her waist and stomach which could be the result of the break in. A body slumped behind the door with feet flush against the opposite wall could make entering very difficult. The 30 minutes were likely spent pushing the door which could have caused further damage to her body. 

[Srikcir]

21 minutes ago, LandOfWiles said:

I was referring to the video, not the report. There appears to be red marks around her waist and stomach which could be the result of the break in. A body slumped behind the door with feet flush against the opposite wall could make entering very difficult. The 30 minutes were likely spent pushing the door which could have caused further damage to her body. 

Obviously, the crime scene is complicated and a thorough autopsy with a detailed investigation of the crime scene will provide answers regarding her death. But the RTP already suspects suicide that will likely influence the direction and thoroughness of their investigation, ie., quickly close the case as solved.

[LandOfWiles]

3 minutes ago, Srikcir said:

Obviously, the crime scene is complicated and a thorough autopsy with a detailed investigation of the crime scene will provide answers regarding her death. But the RTP already suspects suicide that will likely influence the direction and thoroughness of their investigation, ie., quickly close the case as solved.

It's very difficult to see this as anything but suicide IMO. If she had "fallen" from her condo balcony I would be more suspicious but being behind a locked door makes foul play seem unlikely. All that is missing is her motive and that will likely become clear once she's been identified and friends are family are found. 

[PaPiPuPePo]

11 hours ago, smedly said:

talking nonsense, I am not going to discuss it with you because I don't like you and have no wish to have a long drawn out argument listening your usual  pile of <deleted> of trolling and baiting like you do on every thread I have ever seen you posting

 

now take a hint.....you know the rest

 

Agreed, usual low-information speculation. You think there's no way for a railway employee with a master key to get into one of these bathrooms?

Dunning-Kruger effect in play.

 

At least he didn't try blame it on a couple of Burmese passengers 

[LandOfWiles]

13 minutes ago, PaPiPuPePo said:

 

Agreed, usual low-information speculation. You think there's no way for a railway employee with a master key to get into one of these bathrooms?

Isn't your second sentence also "low-information speculation"? 

[GOLDBUGGY]

41 minutes ago, LandOfWiles said:

It's very difficult to see this as anything but suicide IMO. If she had "fallen" from her condo balcony I would be more suspicious but being behind a locked door makes foul play seem unlikely. All that is missing is her motive and that will likely become clear once she's been identified and friends are family are found. 

 

51 minutes ago, LandOfWiles said:

It's very difficult to see this as anything but suicide IMO. If she had "fallen" from her condo balcony I would be more suspicious but being behind a locked door makes foul play seem unlikely. All that is missing is her motive and that will likely become clear once she's been identified and friends are family are found. 

 Yes! I agree totally!

 

Anything is possible I suppose but the best one can hope for here is if this is likely a suicide, or unlikely.

 

Even if her background history tells a story of previous attempts on committing suicide, a drug addiction, and desperation and depression, some people would still argue she was murdered. So unless you were the room with her at this time there is no way to prove it differently.

[PaPiPuPePo]

1 hour ago, LandOfWiles said:

Isn't your second sentence also "low-information speculation"? 

Do you see that curvy symbol at the end of my sentence? (there's another one). It's makes what comes before it a question.

 

And what's your reply then, just low-information miscomprehension times a drive-by lame attempt to shoot me down. 

[thesetat2013]

Apparently you didnt read the story. She must have been going somewhere hence, being on the train

[LandOfWiles]

1 hour ago, PaPiPuPePo said:

Do you see that curvy symbol at the end of my sentence? (there's another one). It's makes what comes before it a question.

 

And what's your reply then, just low-information miscomprehension times a drive-by lame attempt to shoot me down. 

Calm down, mate. I was only pointing out the inconsistency in what you wrote (question mark or not). Even your second post seems inconsistent given that your first post was itself a 'drive-by attempt' at speculators. 

 

I already posted what I think above. I believe this is suicide just as it has been assumed. All that's missing is a motive, which is not unusual at this stage and will likely come to light soon. 

[roo860]

Actually,  the 30 minutes to break in was likely because the body was jamming the door. This might explain what appears to be red marks around the woman's waistline. 

If someone has been dead for a period of time, is it still possible for the body to show marks inflicted post mortem?

Sent from my SM-G920F using Thaivisa Connect mobile app

[LandOfWiles]

12 minutes ago, roo860 said:

 

If someone has been dead for a period of time, is it still possible for the body to show marks inflicted post mortem?

Sent from my SM-G920F using Thaivisa Connect mobile app
 

 

Good point. I'm not sure. When the heart stops then maybe bruises are no longer visible. In fact, if it was red that i saw in the video (it's hard to tell) then it could have just as easily been bloodstains.

[smedly]

I notice apart from the injuries to her abdomen that she appears to have blood from her nose and facial swelling indicating that she may have been assaulted, the injuries to the lower part of her body could seep blood post mortem depending on body position and TOD

 

I do hope they are open and honest when they carry out the medical examination as it will  confirm if she died from hanging or strangulation made to look like hanging, it should not be difficult to determine the what happened to this poor girl.

[PaPiPuPePo]

18 hours ago, LandOfWiles said:

Calm down, mate. I was only pointing out the inconsistency in what you wrote (question mark or not). Even your second post seems inconsistent given that your first post was itself a 'drive-by attempt' at speculators. 

 

I already posted what I think above. I believe this is suicide just as it has been assumed. All that's missing is a motive, which is not unusual at this stage and will likely come to light soon. 

The reason I got annoyed is I see a lot of these "drive-by shoot-down" attempts on TV. Later thought I shouldn't assume that was what you were doing, but if you've been here a while you must have seen a lot of it. Anyway, my first comment wasn't that type because I have a bit of history with this gold buggy dude and he's earned the scorn of many of us here. So I was referencing that history, which both he/she and the other commenter would have understood.

 

And it's not speculation because if you think about it, my semi-supposition (I was being much more questioning, not making the assumption like GB) that trains would have a fail-safe for entry to the toilet (where, you know, people can do crazy things like take drugs or kill themselves, or be murdered for that matter) differs significantly from GB's assertion that there would definitely be no such thing with the further implication that therefore it must have been a suicide.

 

So there's the long response; it seems obvious to me so I some times go off on poorly-reasoned comments like GBs because I decide a long-winded deconstruction of their arguments is a waste of time. As was noted, GB comments (often, sometimes, I don't know or care) like a troll, so I've decided rational debate with him/her is a losing gambit.

 

But I do get a little too salty in my language at times and should tone that down.

Edited February 27, 2017 by PaPiPuPePo

[PaPiPuPePo]

14 hours ago, smedly said:

I notice apart from the injuries to her abdomen that she appears to have blood from her nose and facial swelling indicating that she may have been assaulted, the injuries to the lower part of her body could seep blood post mortem depending on body position and TOD

 

I do hope they are open and honest when they carry out the medical examination as it will  confirm if she died from hanging or strangulation made to look like hanging, it should not be difficult to determine the what happened to this poor girl.

 

Blood freshly coming from wounds or needle marks on her arm, IIRC, that is one thing that really stood out to me. There's enough strange evidence to warrant investigation, not that it will happen. Suicide is painless mostly for the authorities who'd like that to be the catch-all reason for fallings deaths in Thailand.

[PaPiPuPePo]

Hey Mr. Auto-corect. I prefer falang to farang so don't "auto-correct" falang to falling!

 

And interesting mis-correction though, isn't it ;-)

[GOLDBUGGY]

On ‎2‎/‎26‎/‎2017 at 11:16 AM, PaPiPuPePo said:

 

Agreed, usual low-information speculation. You think there's no way for a railway employee with a master key to get into one of these bathrooms?

Dunning-Kruger effect in play.

 

At least he didn't try blame it on a couple of Burmese passengers 

Why would I do that?

 

She wasn't raped and tortured was she?

[GOLDBUGGY]

8 hours ago, PaPiPuPePo said:

The reason I got annoyed is I see a lot of these "drive-by shoot-down" attempts on TV. Later thought I shouldn't assume that was what you were doing, but if you've been here a while you must have seen a lot of it. Anyway, my first comment wasn't that type because I have a bit of history with this gold buggy dude and he's earned the scorn of many of us here. So I was referencing that history, which both he/she and the other commenter would have understood.

 

And it's not speculation because if you think about it, my semi-supposition (I was being much more questioning, not making the assumption like GB) that trains would have a fail-safe for entry to the toilet (where, you know, people can do crazy things like take drugs or kill themselves, or be murdered for that matter) differs significantly from GB's assertion that there would definitely be no such thing with the further implication that therefore it must have been a suicide.

 

So there's the long response; it seems obvious to me so I some times go off on poorly-reasoned comments like GBs because I decide a long-winded deconstruction of their arguments is a waste of time. As was noted, GB comments (often, sometimes, I don't know or care) like a troll, so I've decided rational debate with him/her is a losing gambit.

 

But I do get a little too salty in my language at times and should tone that down.

Since you seem to want to bring my name up so much, yet use it like a Drive By Shooting, and accuse me of that, can I at least make myself heard perfectly clearly here.

 

I never said you can't get into a locked toilet on a train. The one I remember they used to lock them each time they came to a stop. As someone pointed out the old hole in the floor onto the tracks type toilet. I just pointed out that not everyone has a key. That breaking the door down to get would be easy, but locking it from the outside with nobody else noticing anything, would not be. Or at least not for me as I never tried.

 

Sure! If the young woman was raped and found hanging locked in the train toilet with her hands bound together, then red flags would go up. Or she was carrying a great deal of money and that suddenly disappeared. What you have here is a young woman found hung, that she could easily do herself,  inside of a locked public toilet, on her last dollar, with needle marks on her arm.  Yet want to make a murder mystery out of that. It is sad! But it is not a murder!

 

Get Real!  

[dcnx]

4 hours ago, GOLDBUGGY said:

Since you seem to want to bring my name up so much, yet use it like a Drive By Shooting, and accuse me of that, can I at least make myself heard perfectly clearly here.

 

I never said you can't get into a locked toilet on a train. The one I remember they used to lock them each time they came to a stop. As someone pointed out the old hole in the floor onto the tracks type toilet. I just pointed out that not everyone has a key. That breaking the door down to get would be easy, but locking it from the outside with nobody else noticing anything, would not be. Or at least not for me as I never tried.

 

Sure! If the young woman was raped and found hanging locked in the train toilet with her hands bound together, then red flags would go up. Or she was carrying a great deal of money and that suddenly disappeared. What you have here is a young woman found hung, that she could easily do herself,  inside of a locked public toilet, on her last dollar, with needle marks on her arm.  Yet want to make a murder mystery out of that. It is sad! But it is not a murder!

 

Get Real!  

 

Was there any mention of drugs or a needle found? If not, a puncture wound in her arm doesn't mean much.