Kindergarten teachers bound and blindfolded five year olds "to teach them to concentrate"

[Bluespunk]

2 hours ago, USPatriot said:

Or they could get a quality education where the kids run the schools

No teacher should have to bind and gag a 5 year old in order to "run" their class. 

[Bluespunk]

16 minutes ago, tukkytuktuk said:

Too many to mention. Look on google and you'll see hundreds of cases.

I'm thinking this is nonsense from you, but I'll look. 

 

Edit: I've looked and found one case going back to 2014.

 

Hardly hundreds and it was allegations in a trial.

 

I'll look up the results of the trial now and see how it went. 

 

I did notice however the teacher didn't hand over £500 and ask for a new job. Instead they were rightly put in trial for child abuse and asssult. 

 

Edit 2: I now see the teacher was cleared as she wasn't involved but it was a teaching assistant who carried out the assault.

 

She comes across as a brutal thug in the story, as anyone callous enough to bind a child in this manner should be viewed. 

 

Please point me in in the direction of the "hundreds" of incidents. 

 

Edited February 25, 2017 by Bluespunk

[macgver]

I heard that it is not Kindergarten teacher but it is the Primary Teacher who did this.

[sawadee1947]

what a splendid idea.......They ask for a transfer. Who got this idea should be apply for a Noble Prize

So now they can spread their experience to other Kindergartens. Well done

[fdch]

21 hours ago, billd766 said:

 

Well done in attempting to divert the blame from the teachers.

 

To my knowledge NO teacher works 6 hours without any break at all.

 

And the strange thing about it is that ALL teachers are volunteers. Nobody forces them to be a teacher yet people still do it.

 

I assume that you think it is OK to bind young children and to blindfold them. You must do as you didn't condemn the teachers and tried to find excuses for their behaviour.

 

There is NO excuse for what they did at all.

maybe make the teachers give up their cellphone before entering the classroom, that will boost teaching up to double the level now! no need to blindfold so they cannot see the teacher  is playing"tollesap"all the time

[simon43]

Quote

 

How can a foreign teacher look after a class of even 5 students under 5 years old if he doesn't speak Thai? And who is going to allow their child under 5 years old to be looked after by just an English teacher not a trained kindergarten teacher.
It's hard enough to look after 1 under 5 year old. And the big question is this:-
Who would allow a male kindergarten teacher to look after a classroom full on 25 kids without any assistant or Thai teacher? Washing the private areas of young girls and boys. The parents are going to allow you to do that! A foreign man the parents hardly know. Come on.
 

 

 

Slightly off-topic.  But if you're referring to my post, nowhere did I say that foreign teachers should be washing the private areas of young boys and girls.  I specifically said that a local female teacher should have that responsibility, if required. (Update, I'm happy to say that none of my KG students have had an 'accident' in the classroom - they are all confident enough to ask to go to the loo in good time).

 

It is not necessary to speak the local language to be a good ESL teacher, or to teach KG student.  But what is does require is that the teacher has been trained to understand how to teach, how young children learn, how to manage a classroom of young students etc.

 

I teach KG in Myanmar, and I don't speak any Myanmar language....

 

Quote

 

Who would allow a male kindergarten teacher to look after a classroom full on 25 kids without any assistant or Thai teacher?
 

 

 

Sadly, it is that type of bigoted view that has resulted in a dire shortage of male primary and KG teachers - a shortage that is recognised by the education departments in many countries, such as the UK, Germany, New Zealand etc.

 

 If the teacher has undergone police CRB checks, what reason is there not to allow him (or her) to teach KG?  What about leaving a woman alone with 25 kids?  Is that a problem to you?

 

I teach 4 KG classes and 4 primary 1 classes, about 200 children in total. I'm a dad of 4 kids, (and probably will be a grand dad some day).  I've attended specific training in teaching KG and primary students, classroom management etc bla bla bla.

 

I'm also just hitting 58 years old.  In your opinion, at what age does a male teacher suddenly become a kiddy fiddler? 30?, 40? 50?

 

Back on topic (again).  IMHO, the actions of these 2 teachers is merely an outcome of their lack of teacher-training, (which BTW, should include training on how to manage your own temper and anger when you're having a bad day with your students).

 

Edited February 25, 2017 by simon43

[gdgbb]

4 hours ago, greenchair said:

What I expect is for schools and parents to have a list of approved/clear disciplinary measures that teachers can follow. 

I expect parents to discipline their children to a reasonable standard that they don't cause mayhem at school (because they are "special ")

I expect the schools to provide a support person to deal with disruptive children so the teacher and students can focus on the task of learning. 

I expect the parents of these children to pay for that. 

I expect the schools to provide 1 assistant per 10 kids instead of 1 teacher per 30 kids with no help. 

I expect the teacher to be given reasonable breaks throughout the day. 

I expect parents to realize , it is not the teachers job to teach personal hygiene, how to go to toilet, how to clean your arse, how use manners, how to get along with other children, how to behave yourself, and so on. 

I expect that parents, and schools to stop dumping all the responsibility on the teacher with an attitude of that's your job. 

Because it isn't. 

"What I expect is for schools and parents to have a list of approved/clear disciplinary measures that teachers can follow. "

So how come you did not even mention disciplinary action in the comment that I referenced but you bring it up now when it is irrelevant to my post?

  What has the rest of your diatribe got to do with disciplining five year-old children?

 

"..how to clean your arse, how use manners... "

You shot yourself in the foot there with that contradictory display of manners and how to use them.  A fine example of a "teacher".

 

Some people, not me, may be forgiven for getting the impression from your rant that you think that you deserve a job that entails doing next to nothing but having breaks guaranteed for so much dedication.

Edited February 25, 2017 by gdgbb

[Cake Monster]

Teaching is an honourable profession.

Well ! It is, in nearly every country in the World, but Thailand does not seem to rank among those Countries.

I was referring too the profession as a whole, and not solely to the Thai  teaching " profession "

[KenKadz]

But did it work?

[Artisi]

6 hours ago, bandito said:

I was living at Lat Phrao BKK, in the '70s, and there was a school located there who gave my Thai step daughter as punishment 2 hours standing in the burning sun, under the flagmast, at 1400 hrs afternoon.

Man. I was livid and wanted to confront the teachers but got restrained by family as it would make matters worse, their words.

Wouldn't have restrained me, and any repercussions following involving the child would have been dealt with very seriously. Child abuse does not sit well with me and forcing a child to stand in the sun for 2 hours would certainly have resulted in a very tough response - the teacher involved would never think about repeating it ever again. 

[billd766]

On 24/02/2017 at 2:29 PM, tukkytuktuk said:

The interesting part of this child abuse case is that two teachers both agreed to bound the 5 year old girls. A team decision. It beggars the question what had they done to these harmless toddlers in the past year and other children previous years.

Although I agree with Greenchair that a female kindergarten teacher be allowed to discipline the Thai way.

My wife is always discipling my naughty son. When he was a toddler she would get a long stem out of a nearby bush, take off the leaves and whip his legs. Now he's 11 she occasionally gives him a wack with a clothes hanger. He also gives back a bit to. Thumping and kicking. It reminds me of when I grew up. Big brother beating me up any chance he could get and if you say got in trouble with the police your dad would take the belt to you.

 

 

I smacked my first son in the UK only 3 times in his life by the time he was 13 and one of those times I caught him stealing.  He is 38 now and still on the straight and narrow.

 

My Thai son is 12 and I have never smacked him in his life. There are much easier ways to get him to do what I ask.

 

My neighbour did to her daughter what your wife did to your son and was not happy when I suggested that if she did it again I would do the same to her but with a bigger stick.

 

There is NO NEED to beat or abuse a child for any reason at all.

 

There is far less of a reason for ANY teacher to abuse a child.

[JAG]

On 2/24/2017 at 3:08 PM, tukkytuktuk said:

Yes, when she's wacking him with a coat hangar round the legs she has a hold of him. My son punches and kicks out at my wife so she will release him. He's only 11, I don't think it hurts too much. I don't get involved. Daddy cool. Very, very rarely have I ever had to discipline him. My way is the best. I run after him, screaming and shouting "Come here, come here, I'm going to kill you!" He's faster and gets away. I go home wait and an hour later he's back home saying sorry. Obviously it upsets the neighbours a bit. But its a rare event.

I do hope your neighbours understand - a westerner chasing a child down the road shouting "i'm going to kill you" is a tad open to misinterpretation?

[greenchair]

16 hours ago, gdgbb said:

Everything that you, a teacher, seem to be complaining about is called doing the job of the teacher, what do you expect your job to entail?

What I expect is for schools and parents to have a list of approved/clear disciplinary measures that teachers can follow. 

I expect parents to discipline their children to a reasonable standard that they don't cause mayhem at school (because they are "special ")

I expect the schools to provide a support person to deal with disruptive children so the teacher and students can focus on the task of learning. 

I expect the parents of these children to pay for that. 

I expect the schools to provide 1 assistant per 10 kids instead of 1 teacher per 30 kids with no help. 

I expect the teacher to be given reasonable breaks throughout the day. 

I expect parents to realize , it is not the teachers job to teach personal hygiene, how to go to toilet, how to clean your arse, how use manners, how to get along with other children, how to behave yourself, and so on. 

I expect that parents, and schools to stop dumping all the responsibility on the teacher with an attitude of that's your job. 

Because it isn't. 

[fruitman]

On 24-2-2017 at 0:50 PM, Bluespunk said:

Concentration comes with maturity and age. 

 

You can't teach it.

 

You certainly can't punish children into achieving it.

 

Sack them both.

I bet that Japanese kids from 5 can sit still and listen a lot better than Thai kids. So is that genetic or can it be taught?

[Bluespunk]

Just now, fruitman said:

I bet that Japanese kids from 5 can sit still and listen a lot better than Thai kids. So is that genetic or can it be taught?

Concentration cannot be taught.

 

It's a process of maturation.

[fruitman]

10 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

Concentration cannot be taught.

 

It's a process of maturation.

As a kid i did martial arts, japanese style.

 

The teacher also taught us to concentrate blindfolded or in the absolute dark dojo...we even got attacked like that, just to learn to use other sentences than eyes.

 

The kids look quite calm on the pic, it seems it works well for them. I don't see the problem. I see plenty of very wild thai kids who won't listen or anything so it might be a very good idea.

 

But of course anything to teach Thai manners is not done in Thailand...and sure not something like this...they are sooo soft there are no words for it. But they all know that farang kids can do a lot more when at the same age and both are grown in Thailand. Now why would that be?? 

 

I see Thai kids from 9 who are still babies, get babyfood to eat, have never done a job for the parents, always get what they want, cry a lot....it's time the Thai start learning from other cultures.

[metisdead]

Off topic posts and replies have been removed. 

[tukkytuktuk]

9 hours ago, Bluespunk said:

I'm thinking this is nonsense from you, but I'll look. 

 

Edit: I've looked and found one case going back to 2014.

 

Hardly hundreds and it was allegations in a trial.

 

I'll look up the results of the trial now and see how it went. 

 

I did notice however the teacher didn't hand over £500 and ask for a new job. Instead they were rightly put in trial for child abuse and asssult. 

 

Edit 2: I now see the teacher was cleared as she wasn't involved but it was a teaching assistant who carried out the assault.

 

She comes across as a brutal thug in the story, as anyone callous enough to bind a child in this manner should be viewed. 

 

Please point me in in the direction of the "hundreds" of incidents. 

 

I did 8 hours ago I posted a reply with about 10 links to uk press on similar child abuse cases. The post was deleted.

[Bluespunk]

1 hour ago, fruitman said:

As a kid i did martial arts, japanese style.

 

The teacher also taught us to concentrate blindfolded or in the absolute dark dojo...we even got attacked like that, just to learn to use other sentences than eyes.

 

The kids look quite calm on the pic, it seems it works well for them. I don't see the problem. I see plenty of very wild thai kids who won't listen or anything so it might be a very good idea.

 

But of course anything to teach Thai manners is not done in Thailand...and sure not something like this...they are sooo soft there are no words for it. But they all know that farang kids can do a lot more when at the same age and both are grown in Thailand. Now why would that be?? 

 

I see Thai kids from 9 who are still babies, get babyfood to eat, have never done a job for the parents, always get what they want, cry a lot....it's time the Thai start learning from other cultures.

Never the less, you cannot force a child into concentration by abusing them as these teachers did.

[Bluespunk]

6 minutes ago, tukkytuktuk said:

I did 8 hours ago I posted a reply with about 10 links to uk press on similar child abuse cases. The post was deleted.

I replied to it.

 

It had three stories involving UK schools, repeated in the different news articles.

 

One of them I had already referred to in an earlier post to you [three links included].

 

It did not involve a teacher.

 

The other two involved a supply teacher who was deregistered as a teacher afterwards. His actions may explain why he was involved in supply work rather than gaining a full time post. [Two mentions]

 

The other resulted in a teacher being suspended.[three mentions}

 

In no cases were the individuals allowed to offer money in return for the incident being forgotten or allowed to request a different placing.

 

They were removed from the profession because of their abuse.

 

The other stories were an American school [again not a teacher], a family abusing one of their children and a trailer for a radio programme for one of the stories you already referred to.

Edited February 25, 2017 by Bluespunk

[tukkytuktuk]

12 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

I replied to it.

 

It had three stories involving UK schools, repeated in the different news articles.

 

One of them I had already referred to in an earlier post to you [three links included].

 

It did not involve a teacher.

 

The other two involved a supply teacher who was deregistered as a teacher afterwards. His actions may explain why he was involved in supply work rather than gaining a full time post. [Two mentions]

 

The other resulted in a teacher being suspended.[three mentions}

 

In no cases were the individuals allowed to offer money in return for the incident being forgotten or allowed to request a different placing.

 

They were removed from the profession because of their abuse.

 

The other stories were an American school [again not a teacher], a family abusing one of their children and a trailer for a radio programme for one of the stories you already referred to.

So then I was right this kind of child abuse happens not just in Thailand but all over the world.

Edited February 25, 2017 by tukkytuktuk

[greenchair]

1 hour ago, fruitman said:

As a kid i did martial arts, japanese style.

 

The teacher also taught us to concentrate blindfolded or in the absolute dark dojo...we even got attacked like that, just to learn to use other sentences than eyes.

 

The kids look quite calm on the pic, it seems it works well for them. I don't see the problem. I see plenty of very wild thai kids who won't listen or anything so it might be a very good idea.

 

But of course anything to teach Thai manners is not done in Thailand...and sure not something like this...they are sooo soft there are no words for it. But they all know that farang kids can do a lot more when at the same age and both are grown in Thailand. Now why would that be?? 

 

I see Thai kids from 9 who are still babies, get babyfood to eat, have never done a job for the parents, always get what they want, cry a lot....it's time the Thai start learning from other cultures.

I don't see the problem either. 

It looks like a bit of a joke that went wrong. The child looks very comfortable. I really don't think the intention was to abuse them. I have put tape on a couple of kids over the years. Even the kids thought it was a bit of a lark. People are so serious. Making them stand outside with caps over their faces might be considered abuse. 

 

[Bluespunk]

Just now, tukkytuktuk said:

So then I was right this kind of child abuse happens not just in Thailand but all ver the world.

No, you were wrong as you claimed there are hundreds of cases involving teachers in the UK.

 

Also in all the cases you mentioned, UK, USA, family abusing their kids, action was taken to remove the individuals from children and in the more serious cases they were gaoled.

 

Hope this also happens here with these two individuals as they are unfit to work with children.

[tukkytuktuk]

14 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

No, you were wrong as you claimed there are hundreds of cases involving teachers in the UK.

 

Also in all the cases you mentioned, UK, USA, family abusing their kids, action was taken to remove the individuals from children and in the more serious cases they were gaoled.

 

Hope this also happens here with these two individuals as they are unfit to work with children.

Yes but how do you know for certain that I am wrong? It could take weeks of research to find out all the cases of child abuse that sticky tape was used in. Do you expect me to get on a plane back to England, contact the police and ask for files on this subject, say I'm doing research to win a debating contest with Bluespunk on Thaivisa Thailand news forum. Come on, pls.

 

Oh I saw this picture whilst doing research and saw this, it is blindfolded children in class playing a game. Now I'm not saying the toddlers were playing a game, but the strangest part of the story is why did the perpertrators take a photo? Maybe it was a game. A game that someone else turned it into a child abuse case.

Edited February 25, 2017 by tukkytuktuk

[Bluespunk]

3 minutes ago, tukkytuktuk said:

Yes but how do you know for certain that I am wrong? It could take weeks of research to find out all the cases of child abuse that sticky tape was used in. Do you expect me to get on a plane back to England, contact the police and ask for files on this subject, say I'm doing research to win a debating contest with Bluespunk on Thaivisa Thailand news forum. Come on, pls.

 

Oh I saw this picture whilst doing research and saw this, it is blindfolded children in class playing a game. Now I'm not saying the toddlers were playing a game, but the strangest part of the story is why did the perpertrators take a photo? Maybe it was a game. A game that someone else turned it into a child abuse case.

So you can't back up your claim then.

 

The teachers involved in this case are unfit to work with children.

 

I would say the same of any teacher anywhere in the world involved in such abuse.

 

Oh, and I never said it only happens in Thailand...

Edited February 25, 2017 by Bluespunk

[tukkytuktuk]

15 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

So you can't back up your claim then.

 

The teachers involved in this case are unfit to work with children.

 

I would say the same of any teacher anywhere in the world involved in such abuse.

 

Oh, and I never said it only happens in Thailand...

Okay, I agree too, I cannot back up my claim.

I agree that these teachers are child abusers and should be put in prison

I agree that all teachers that abuse children should be punished.

I know you never said it only happens in Thailand.

 

Edited February 25, 2017 by tukkytuktuk

[tukkytuktuk]

3 hours ago, JAG said:

I do hope your neighbours understand - a westerner chasing a child down the road shouting "i'm going to kill you" is a tad open to misinterpretation?

They all know me in my street, lived there for years. But wish I hadn't shared my private life on this forum. The term shower of ....... comes to mind sometimes.

[tukkytuktuk]

3 hours ago, billd766 said:

 

I smacked my first son in the UK only 3 times in his life by the time he was 13 and one of those times I caught him stealing.  He is 38 now and still on the straight and narrow.

 

My Thai son is 12 and I have never smacked him in his life. There are much easier ways to get him to do what I ask.

 

My neighbour did to her daughter what your wife did to your son and was not happy when I suggested that if she did it again I would do the same to her but with a bigger stick.

 

There is NO NEED to beat or abuse a child for any reason at all.

 

There is far less of a reason for ANY teacher to abuse a child.

Why are you telling me, why don't you talk to my wife.

[lvr181]

On 2/24/2017 at 3:50 PM, Bluespunk said:

Concentration comes with maturity and age. 

 

You can't teach it.

 

You certainly can't punish children into achieving it.

 

Sack them both.

Including the school director! A feudal society with seemingly few learning anything.

[tukkytuktuk]

I guess I deserve all the replies after such a open post on me and my wifes different ways to deal with a naughty son. I do think I have a problem and I'm going to do the right thing and see a family counseler. Is there such a service for expats in Bangkok? I work so hard and so does my wife we are neglecting my son's needs. Maybe I should employ a nanny to help. We obviously need help as you all have pointed out. Sorry its a bit off topic.