Tragedy played out on Facebook as sick and uninsured Bangkok expat dies on the way to hospital

[Sumarianson]

Maybe so. But again, what's there to suggest that that is the reason he had no private insurance?
 
Btw.: I've had a private policy for the last 15 years here, with 2 exclusions relating to a prior road accident. So far, the company has always met its obligations with any claims that I filed with them.

What is the name of the company and your annual bill if you dont mind saying?

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[wvavin]

R.I.P.

[starfish]

21 minutes ago, redwinecheese said:

Never tell an insurance agent yes, always answer no, because insurance is a form of gamble

Yep, it´s just that they dish out the cards !

It´s like with thai girls, how to find the good ones, life could be over, before you have success . . .

 

 

[bamukloy]

5 hours ago, little mary sunshine said:

 

 

(My post to Machesta-

couldnt fix quote box..apologies little Mary sunshine)

 

For my money
insurance is the biggest scam industry second only to boiler rooms.

 

Not knowing details, but going from Machesta (post 74) 

as example

Has paid 145,000 baht already, and by age 74, will pay around 300,000 if the same policy is kept.

 

If this policy had the same conditions as the poster 'retiredandhappyhere' mentions, reaching 75 y.o means insurance finishes and they will not cover you.

 

If you had no or very few claims, that would mean you've virtually thrown away 300k, which could have been used for conditions from age 75+

 

As it is, after paying all that insurance, your left high and dry, no coverage,

Its way to expensive to look for other alternative insurance at that age, most probably you would need to watch every baht  

 

IMO, Insurance companies are for profit pure and simple, and along with their notorious reputation for pulling any dirty trick to get out of paying..best avoided IMO

A bunch of cockroaches!

[redwinecheese]

3 minutes ago, paulbj2 said:

The mother had no means to pay the bill.

At least her passport won't be confiscated like here in Thailand till she pay her dues! at least that is what I know before Brexit...

[Sheryl]

6 hours ago, ajarngreg said:

From reading his posts on FB, it seems that he had the Thai SS and didn't know details.

 Most unfortunate and avoidable then.

Under SS everything is paid for, no need to upfront costs, but one is registered at a specific hospital (which there is some choice in) and has to get care at that hospital unless they provide a letter of referral to a higher level facility.

 

If problems are encountered and a hospital doesn't refer when it should, or provide treatment that it should, there are numbers to call which will assist. I have seen dramatic turn-arounds with just one call from the SS office.

 

So either he  did not know the system at all and was going around to hospitals where he was not registered and then getting upset when told he had to pay, or he had gone to the hospital he is registered at and not gotten proper care and then not known the procedures for dealing with that. (It is not to go elsewhere expected other hospitals to accept your SS card; they cannot as they will not be reimbursed if you are not registered there. It is to call the SS hotline. If it is a true live and death immediate emergency, then go to the nearest government hospital and once stable, call SS and they will arrange for payment, there are clauses for such contingencies).

 

Anyone with SS should take the time to be thoroughly familiar with all this, and keep the SS office number in their wallet. Also should give careful thought to which hospital you register at. Private is usually not best; participation in the SS scheme is completely voluntary for private hospitals and those who agree tend to be those that are desperate for patients/in bad financial straits due to low numbers, and there will be reasons why they are in that state. Best choice is usually the largest/highest level government or military hospital on the list.

 

 

 

[Sumarianson]

But it isn't regardless ...
 
When there was discussion about requiring tourists and foreign residents to pay for or have proof of medical insurance there were howls of protest on TV.
 
If you're traveling you should have insurance coverage and if you decide to settle in Thailand you should face the fact that medical needs have to be planned for. Waiting until you get sick or have an accident and then carrying on about poor me and someone should give me care for free,  is just irresponsible. 
 
It's tragic that this man died, although it apparently had nothing to do with his infected leg (which had been treated). If he had survived the accident he would have been treated for his injuries in hospital, but whether or not he could pay for it, someone would have to.
 
One of the things that affects the prices we all have to pay for medical treatment is the provision that hospitals have to make to cover the cost of treating people who can't pay. If you want to pay for those without funds or insurance, then please step forward with cash in hand the next time some foreigner is reported in hospital with hundreds of thousands in unpaid bills.
 
Even in western nanny states medical treatment for non-residents/citizens is limited or non-existent.
 
 
 
 RIP Christian.

 In the first instance you are completely wrong with regard to the UK.
It may be the policy of the Government not to treat aliens. However in practice no one is refused.
Secondly your approach in this very sad affair is cold and callous. Not everything is about money. The Governments of the Country where the individual had paid tax and insurance all his life should be held responsible for his bill if he has a right to SS in his own Country if he were resident there. Just because you move country should not absolve a scheme that you have funded and paid for all your life of their responsibility under that scheme.
It may be that you might be oblidged to cover any costs that exceed what would normally be paid in that country, other than that you paid for insurance! You should have a right to be treated.
This would mean free care in Thailand as the majority of hospitals and procedures here are cheaper than most western countries.
I dare say that if an individual took say the UK NHS to court, I think they would have a case!



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[paulbj2]

3 minutes ago, redwinecheese said:

At least her passport won't be confiscated like here in Thailand till she pay her dues! at least that is what I know before Brexit...

Yes, that would hardly be rational, would it. So the NHS spends hundreds of thousands to save her life and that of her babies then leaves her to fend for herself in the UK where she would have no right to work and would therefore be dependent on Social Security thus costing the taxpayer even more money!

[redwinecheese]

3 minutes ago, paulbj2 said:

 thus costing the taxpayer even more money!

A lot better taxpayers money goes to helping lives not killing lives in wars, don't you agree?

[paulbj2]

5 minutes ago, Sumarianson said:

7 hours ago, Suradit69 said:

But it isn't regardless ...
 
When there was discussion about requiring tourists and foreign residents to pay for or have proof of medical insurance there were howls of protest on TV.
 
If you're traveling you should have insurance coverage and if you decide to settle in Thailand you should face the fact that medical needs have to be planned for. Waiting until you get sick or have an accident and then carrying on about poor me and someone should give me care for free,  is just irresponsible. 
 
It's tragic that this man died, although it apparently had nothing to do with his infected leg (which had been treated). If he had survived the accident he would have been treated for his injuries in hospital, but whether or not he could pay for it, someone would have to.
 
One of the things that affects the prices we all have to pay for medical treatment is the provision that hospitals have to make to cover the cost of treating people who can't pay. If you want to pay for those without funds or insurance, then please step forward with cash in hand the next time some foreigner is reported in hospital with hundreds of thousands in unpaid bills.
 
Even in western nanny states medical treatment for non-residents/citizens is limited or non-existent.
 
 
 
 RIP Christian.

 In the first instance you are completely wrong with regard to the UK.
It may be the policy of the Government not to treat aliens. However in practice no one is refused.
Secondly your approach in this very sad affair is cold and callous. Not everything is about money. The Governments of the Country where the individual had paid tax and insurance all his life should be held responsible for his bill if he has a right to SS in his own Country if he were resident there. Just because you move country should not absolve a scheme that you have funded and paid for all your life of their responsibility under that scheme.
It may be that you might be oblidged to cover any costs that exceed what would normally be paid in that country, other than that you paid for insurance! You should have a right to be treated.
This would mean free care in Thailand as the majority of hospitals and procedures here are cheaper than most western countries.
I dare say that if an individual took say the UK NHS to court, I think they would have a case!



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The act of parliament that set up the NHS says that cover is only provided within the UK. Unfair as it may be, I don't think anyone taking the government to court would have a leg to stand on.

[mommysboy]

This subject has resonance for me because my father has just died a long, lingering death from cancer in the UK.  They did a good job.  The care was excellent during the last few years of a quite miserable decline.  It took ages for him to pass away.  In the end he was reduced to skin and bones, and gasping for breath. Despite paying in to NHS for near on 50 years, they sent a letter to us to say that continuing care was being withdrawn as he did not have a priority need.  He was gasping on his deathbed, minus one leg!  Dad wanted out a long time ago.  He especially wanted to pass on the family home to look after us kids.

 

So, I look at poor Christian, and yes it is a dreadful tragedy, but in all honesty I know which way I want to go.  All in all, UK is about as comprehensive as it gets, but even the best care couldn't do much in those last years, and they can't give as much pain relief as you'd hope.

 

Mum, meanwhile has Alzheimers, has had to be sectioned, and is set for a terrible decline. She will likely not receive funding since it is not regarded as an illness in UK for free funding purpose.  There will come a time after the house has been sold and resources drained when local council will pick up tab. She'll likely end up as one of those dreadfully decrepit creatures that is no more than a gibbering, curled up ball.

 

I never thought someone dying suddenly could be considered lucky, but in a sense perhaps they are.

[Dumbastheycome]

I have great sympathy for this  man. After  6  months of debilitating pain  and  no  conclusive  outcome leading to  any effective  resolution  it  is  very possible  his  accident may have been the  result of a  combination  of many  factors.

I  also have some confusion as to the  difficulty in receiving adequate  medical  care.

I personally have  experienced  the  need  for urgent medical intervention due  to an optical infection. I spent  6 days in a Government   hospital where at the end admitted they were  unable  to identify it, bring  it  under control,and did  not have the  surgical  facilities to cope  further.They  advised I accept  a  referral to one  of two Government  hospitals  with  surgical  capacity which  I  naturally  did. 

Despite  immediate ongoing  attempts  at theraputic intervention at the next  hospital within  hours  I  underwent  emergency  surgical procedure.which  saved  my eye. The  very  professional and  genuinely concerned interest in this  outcome  was  evident at the  outset  from all involved.

There was  never any preceding discussion involving  cost. Only  the reality  of the  medical  situation and possible outcomes.

The  resulting  cost  of an emergency surgical procedure including  an Anesthetist at 10 pm was 22,000Bht.

Day stay cost for a week was 400 Bht per day which included regular medication 3 hourly  for  6  days.

Ongoing  outpatient consultation and medications over the next  year eventually  raised  the  entire  cost to approximately 87,000Bht.

Considering the  fact that  I spend  considerably  more than that  on cigarettes,  alcohol  and  other  relatively frivalous  items in any one  year  and the treatment  I received  was  at least  comparable  with  any I would  get in  my  home  country I am left  impressed  with  the  surgical  standards in Thailand. 

That is in contrast to the capacity of general practitioners which is what led to my  emergency  in the beginning due  to  superficial diagnosis.

I  have  also attempted  to find a  diagnosis/resolution to a  much  more  minor  problem  via  a very  high profile  private  hospital.

Despite an exorbitant  cost the  outcome was nil.

This  has lead  me  to conclude  my personal  decision  to refuse expensive insurance  which is likely to refuse me  anyway  via   Clause  XXXX and instead  stay aware  that  i  need  some  reserves to offset risk  on my own behalf is  the wiser choice. It also  gives  me  the incentive  to contemplate  risk instead of  relying  on speculative  "coverage".

 

 

[mommysboy]

10 minutes ago, Dumbastheycome said:

I have great sympathy for this  man. After  6  months of debilitating pain  and  no  conclusive  outcome leading to  any effective  resolution  it  is  very possible  his  accident may have been the  result of a  combination  of many  factors.

I  also have some confusion as to the  difficulty in receiving adequate  medical  care.

I personally have  experienced  the  need  for urgent medical intervention due  to an optical infection. I spent  6 days in a Government   hospital where at the end admitted they were  unable  to identify it, bring  it  under control,and did  not have the  surgical  facilities to cope  further.They  advised I accept  a  referral to one  of two Government  hospitals  with  surgical  capacity which  I  naturally  did. 

Despite  immediate ongoing  attempts  at theraputic intervention at the next  hospital within  hours  I  underwent  emergency  surgical procedure.which  saved  my eye. The  very  professional and  genuinely concerned interest in this  outcome  was  evident at the  outset  from all involved.

There was  never any preceding discussion involving  cost. Only  the reality  of the  medical  situation and possible outcomes.

The  resulting  cost  of an emergency surgical procedure including  an Anesthetist at 10 pm was 22,000Bht.

Day stay cost for a week was 400 Bht per day which included regular medication 3 hourly  for  6  days.

Ongoing  outpatient consultation and medications over the next  year eventually  raised  the  entire  cost to approximately 87,000Bht.

Considering the  fact that  I spend  considerably  more than that  on cigarettes,  alcohol  and  other  relatively frivalous  items in any one  year  and the treatment  I received  was  at least  comparable  with  any I would  get in  my  home  country I am left  impressed  with  the  surgical  standards in Thailand. 

That is in contrast to the capacity of general practitioners which is what led to my  emergency  in the beginning due  to  superficial diagnosis.

I  have  also attempted  to find a  diagnosis/resolution to a  much  more  minor  problem  via  a very  high profile  private  hospital.

Despite an exorbitant  cost the  outcome was nil.

This  has lead  me  to conclude  my personal  decision  to refuse expensive insurance  which is likely to refuse me  anyway  via   Clause  XXXX and instead  stay aware  that  i  need  some  reserves to offset risk  on my own behalf is  the wiser choice. It also  gives  me  the incentive  to contemplate  risk instead of  relying  on speculative  "coverage".

 

 

There's hope for all of us.  Great posting.

[redwinecheese]

7 hours ago, bipper said:

Why all the rubbish about health insurance? A man's dead most likely caused by a car/truck driver. Drive safely! Be aware!

 

Christian didn't die by blood poisoning he was most likely killed by driver carelessness.

 

 

Over speeding motorcyclists are to be blamed because in worst cases fatal injuries won't happen if motorcyclist drive rationally.

[fstarbkk]

1 hour ago, Sumarianson said:

What is the name of the company and your annual bill if you dont mind saying?

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It's Bupa Thailand. And in 5 minutes on the phone with them, you will know what your annual premium would be. It depends on your age and the level of coverage you need. So, telling you mine would be irrelevant. Suffice it to say, it's about 20% of what a basic plan would cost me in the States. 

Edited February 25, 2017 by fstarbkk

[Dumbastheycome]

1 minute ago, redwinecheese said:

Over speeding motorcyclists are to be blamed because in worst cases fatal injuries won't happen if motorcyclist drive rationally.

There  is  not  much " rubbish" in the  question  of  how to  pay to treat medical issues. It is a  matter of  choice s to  risk. 

Motorcyclists  are at greater risk regardless  of  speed because they are physically   more  vulnerable and  the  drivers  of  cars know it regardless  of the fact  both  are  equally  legitimate  users  of a  public  road.t

 

[Kudzu]

R.I.P

[redwinecheese]

Please I do not need irrational sympathizers, because I strongly believe bad endings happen to bad people and vice versa.

Some people die in peace in their bedrooms or recliners and some die in rest rooms

[realfunster]

9 hours ago, brianwl said:

I have can't get health insurance in Thailand because of pre-existing conditions.  

 I don't get this answer, or the multiple likes , in respect of this particular story.  I appreciate it is difficult to get insurance with an existing condition, but this guy had an acute, rather than chronic medical issue and I don't see why he can't sell his big bike/assets, as the previous poster suggested,  for THB xxx,000 and use that money for urgent medical care. I had surgery & hospital stay of 1 week in Bangok, in a half-decent Bangkok hospital,  for less than THB 150,000. If you 'self-insure' (whether your choice or not) you have to be prepared to cash-in on what you own to pay your medical fees when the time comes. 

Edited February 25, 2017 by realfunster

[starfish]

My wife and me went to a private Hospital. Good insurance in Hand.You know, the Hospital, which starts with a "B". Ovary Zysts. Now we know, they come and go, completely normal for a woman, they wanted to do surgery immediately, that was 5 or 7 years ago, can´t remember. Didn´t do it. We have no Zysts today, well, my wife at least

Never say, you have good insurance, they will do surgery on you, even if you don´t need it. Stay away from private Hospitals, unless you enjoy beeing cut open for nothing !

I think its best to say: "i´m paying out of pocket", but i´m not "completely broke" Thats the sweet spot there . . .

[Janner1]

 

Regardless of what you think about him having no insurance, he should have gone to the best and nearest hospital. Doctors swear an oath. 

 

Is the Hypocratic oath really taken seriously in Thailand when so many Thais die needlessly when ambulances cannot get through the me me gang no matter how many sirens are blaring and blue lights are flashing. And the treatment appears to be so slip shod.

 

If these doctors and hospital administrators really cared I am sure they could lobby the government with total success to make the obstructin of emergency services an offence.

Sadly the cops are all part of the me me gang, so no action would ever be taken me thinks

 

RIP

 

[HHTel]

RIP the victim in this.  Very sad.

However, I was impressed by the way the traffic gave way to the ambulance - NOT.  The amount of paraphernalia on the ambulance's windscreen was ridiculous.  Plus while making his way to the scene, it must have been very scary seeing an ambulance driving against the traffic on a busy slip road.  And how many 'rubber neckers' had stopped and blocked the road.  They must qualify for a Guinness Record!  Why do people go out of their way to view the gory details?

[geriatrickid]

9 hours ago, rkidlad said:

Regardless of what you think about him having no insurance, he should have gone to the best and nearest hospital. Doctors swear an oath. 

 

Get treated first and worry later. Life and death should have no price tag.

 

What oath  do they swear?  Is this something new?  Don't confuse  a  voluntary optional pledge of conduct with no legal standing that some countries have, as an obligation.  This is not a  television novella.

 

You are delusional if you believe that physicians in Thailand are obliged to provide complex and invasive medical treatments gratis. It does not occur. The best that one can hope for is a stabilization of an incident, but not a treatment or a "cure".  Thai hospitals may have compassionate care policies that will allow for emergency immediate care, but  they are not obliged either legally, nor morally, to do anything more.  

[mommysboy]

3 minutes ago, realfunster said:

 I don't get this answer, or the multiple likes , in respect of this particular story.  I appreciate it is difficult to get insurance with an existing condition, but this guy had an acute, rather than chronic medical issue and I don't see why he can't sell his big bike/assets, as the previous poster suggested,  for THB xxx,000 and use that money for urgent medical care. I had surgery & hospital stay of 1 week in Bangok, in a half-decent Bangkok hospital,  for less than THB 150,000. If you 'self-insure' (whether your choice or not) you have to be prepared to cash-in on what you own to pay your medical fees when the time comes. 

 

In the middle you write: 'I dont see why he can't', and I suppose no more really needed to be said. You're entitled to your view and I guess it is fair to say that there is moral hazard here, and you perhaps think it right that people like him don't deserve to be treated because of his poverty, or recklessness. 

 

If I've got it right then that is a fair viewpoint, but a lot of posters want to attribute blame or say they don't understand why he didn't, etc.

 

I think the truth is that we are irrational beings. Most of us are not successful, and increasingly lower classes are becoming poorer and poorer.  This makes people do crazy things.

 

Personally, I take the view that people should be treated regardless, because I am a humanitarian. If you were the one making the decision next to a bedside, what would you do?

[redwinecheese]

8 minutes ago, starfish said:

My wife and me went to a private Hospital. Good insurance in Hand.You know, the Hospital, which starts with a "B". Ovary Zysts. Now we know, they come and go, completely normal for a woman, they wanted to do surgery immediately, that was 5 or 7 years ago, can´t remember. Didn´t do it. We have no Zysts today, well, my wife at least

Never say, you have good insurance, they will do surgery on you, even if you don´t need it. Stay away from private Hospitals, unless you enjoy beeing cut open for nothing !

I think its best to say: "i´m paying out of pocket", but i´m not "completely broke" Thats the sweet spot there . . .

Good point I don't have medical insurance and I use Thai government hospitals, in the end they are all doctors

[Janner1]

Firstly may I apologise to rkidlad I quoted him without crediting him I am sorry 

 

secondly geriatrickid, 

All doctors all over the world have to sign the Hypocratic oath, to preserve life and give treatment in a timely and professional manner.

If they do not sign the oath they can not use the moniker " Doctor " , and they can not lawfully practise , it is not enough to study and pass exams.

That is why they can be " Struck off "

 

This is not meant in any way to be offensive to you , merely a clarification

[geriatrickid]

9 hours ago, brianwl said:

I have can't get health insurance in Thailand because of pre-existing conditions.  

Let's correct what you wrote for accuracy;

1.  You cannot insure  the pre-existing condition itself, but you can  obtain coverage for everything else. For example if you have  heart disease, you cannot insure loss arising from the  heart disease itself, but you can insure injury due to mishap such as a fall or crash.

 

2. You do not wish or you cannot afford the cost of insurance coverage. Whatever the reason, that is your choice. You must accept the consequences of your choice.  It is not an insurer's fault.

 

3. It is not overly difficult for people to obtain medical insurance if they are wiling to be reasonable and to accept the fact that an insurance policy is a contract that transfers risk. You say to an insurer, here is my risk, please take it. The insurer  says, we will take the risk, but require this amount of money to cover the  transfer.  It is rather sad yet funny, to see people complain about insurers not accepting a risk for a low premium. Well, if the risk is considered to be so minimal, why doesn't the party seeking to offload it, keep it?  Some people actually expect an insurer  just to accept  the risk, for next to nothing. Not much one can say to such people, because they also believe their sh*t doesn't stink.

 

Customers never stop to consider what they can do to make their risk transfer more appealing to an insurer. Consider the use of a self retention. Offer to retain 50,000 or 100,000 baht in any policy term. Treat the insurance  as a catastrophic financial instrument. Use the insurer to manage the claims if need be.  Too many people claim for small charges of 500 or 1000 baht and then wonder why the premium increases upon renewal.  Don't make small claims. Keep the small stuff. Benefit from the higher deductible.  People say they paid for the insurance and want to use it. Well,  that strategy works for a year or two and then the insurer  says, whoa we will lose money on this customer, see ya, bye.

 

 

 

[mommysboy]

1 hour ago, bamukloy said:

 

(My post to Machesta-

couldnt fix quote box..apologies little Mary sunshine)

 

For my money
insurance is the biggest scam industry second only to boiler rooms.

 

Not knowing details, but going from Machesta (post 74) 

as example

Has paid 145,000 baht already, and by age 74, will pay around 300,000 if the same policy is kept.

 

If this policy had the same conditions as the poster 'retiredandhappyhere' mentions, reaching 75 y.o means insurance finishes and they will not cover you.

 

If you had no or very few claims, that would mean you've virtually thrown away 300k, which could have been used for conditions from age 75+

 

As it is, after paying all that insurance, your left high and dry, no coverage,

Its way to expensive to look for other alternative insurance at that age, most probably you would need to watch every baht  

 

IMO, Insurance companies are for profit pure and simple, and along with their notorious reputation for pulling any dirty trick to get out of paying..best avoided IMO

A bunch of cockroaches!

 

Agreed.  It appears to me they are great, just as long as you don't really need them!

 

Really, it seems that those without means have to run the risk of a premature death, eg, succumbing to cancer and knowing that is the end, as opposed to being treated as we might in Farangland, where we might stand a fighter's chance.

 

And even those with substantial sums will likely face ruination after 75 say if they decline in to dementia, or suffer serious chronic illness, since the bill could be in multiple millions.

 

I suppose a move back home is the only option for those that do not have ties.

Edited February 25, 2017 by mommysboy

[mommysboy]

14 minutes ago, geriatrickid said:

Let's correct what you wrote for accuracy;

1.  You cannot insure  the pre-existing condition itself, but you can  obtain coverage for everything else. For example if you have  heart disease, you cannot insure loss arising from the  heart disease itself, but you can insure injury due to mishap such as a fall or crash.

 

2. You do not wish or you cannot afford the cost of insurance coverage. Whatever the reason, that is your choice. You must accept the consequences of your choice.  It is not an insurer's fault.

 

3. It is not overly difficult for people to obtain medical insurance if they are wiling to be reasonable and to accept the fact that an insurance policy is a contract that transfers risk. You say to an insurer, here is my risk, please take it. The insurer  says, we will take the risk, but require this amount of money to cover the  transfer.  It is rather sad yet funny, to see people complain about insurers not accepting a risk for a low premium. Well, if the risk is considered to be so minimal, why doesn't the party seeking to offload it, keep it?  Some people actually expect an insurer  just to accept  the risk, for next to nothing. Not much one can say to such people, because they also believe their sh*t doesn't stink.

 

Customers never stop to consider what they can do to make their risk transfer more appealing to an insurer. Consider the use of a self retention. Offer to retain 50,000 or 100,000 baht in any policy term. Treat the insurance  as a catastrophic financial instrument. Use the insurer to manage the claims if need be.  Too many people claim for small charges of 500 or 1000 baht and then wonder why the premium increases upon renewal.  Don't make small claims. Keep the small stuff. Benefit from the higher deductible.  People say they paid for the insurance and want to use it. Well,  that strategy works for a year or two and then the insurer  says, whoa we will lose money on this customer, see ya, bye.

 

 

 

 

Isn't it really about people not being able to afford it?  So just carrying on with fingers crossed.

[Torrens54]

and what about all the Ageing/Aged ExPats who dropped Health Insurance "at home" and bought the THAI GOVERNMENT Scheme, only to have that scheme KILLED OFF, leaving them UNINSURED, Unable to afford Overseas Insurance and facing "The Big JUMP" if they contract something NASTY?