Do Thai Students Know How to Think?

[off road pat]

5 hours ago, Srikcir said:

Let me repeat some of that "crap":

 

Education System in Thailand: A Terrible Failure in S.E. Asia http://ireport.cnn.com/docs/DOC-985267

Low ranking for quality despite high spending: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/news/national/aec/30214172

Thailand 'Stunned' by Poor Education Ranking: http://investvine.com/thailand-stunned-by-poor-education-ranking/

Thai education system unsatisfactory, admits Deputy Prime Minister: http://www.thephuketnews.com/thai-education-system-unsatisfactory-admits-deputy-prime-minister-55544.php

THX, for this info !!!

[lvr181]

Problem solved?

 

 

[bermannor]

Do Thai Students Know How to Think?

The author of this post should ask himself about his way of thinking. Is there any law or rule for thinking? Why must Thais think the way ignorant expats think? Why is it not relevant for many Thais, where Thailand is on the world map or why the sun rises in the east and leaves us in the west or why Europe is 6 hours ahead of us? It's not relevant for them and there are other topic in their lifes which are much more essentiell like e.g. "loosing the face", a way of thinking which doesn't exist in a farang's brain.

[bermannor]

Or, even more important, the straight use of.the small word "NO!".

[bkkgriz]

Here's my 2 satang. I taught Thai kids for 8 years in a private elementary school. Most of the students were what you would call middle to upper middle class. There were a few here and there that were from very wealthy families as well. Now, most of these kids were 12 years old or under, and according to Jean Piaget, most of these kids wouldn't be able to think critically. Of course, there will be exceptions. My point is that after encouraging my students to ask questions and asking them questions that develop higher order thinking, many students were able to discuss things at a deeper level. We weren't discussing Kafka or anything like that, but we were having discussions. Most of the Thai teachers just put stuff on the board and had the kids copy it down and memorize it. Rote learning was very much the preferred method. So I believe one of the biggest problems is that there are very low expectations for most students. Raise expectations and you will raise smarter kids. Anyway, I'm no super teacher, but I did my best to teach my students.

[whatawonderfulday]

3 hours ago, hawker9000 said:

Yeah, just what we need.  Another "expert" pontificating from academia and reminding us how fortunate we are to have the benefit of their ineluctable genius.   Laughable, in a pathetic sort o' way.  But hey, "lame" IS the new "comedy".

 

[bermannor]

What is better?

To learn a kid that 2 plus 2 is 4 full stop, or why it is 4 and how important the number 0 is.

I believe, most expat teachers can't explain it. Ok, most of you are English language teachers, but basically it's the same. Why is kanon pan bread. Where originates the word bread and how it changed over time.

[bkkgriz]

3 minutes ago, bermannor said:

What is better?

To learn a kid that 2 plus 2 is 4 full stop, or why it is 4 and how important the number 0 is.

I believe, most expat teachers can't explain it. Ok, most of you are English language teachers, but basically it's the same. Why is kanon pan bread. Where originates the word bread and how it changed over time.

 

 

I'm not sure how knowing that kanom pan comes from the French word for bread (pain) helps students in day to day life. I told my Japanese high school students that their word for bread パン (pan)  is derived from Portuguese. They shrugged their shoulders and got on with their physics homework. It's good for trivia I suppose.

[rijb]

2 minutes ago, bkkgriz said:

I'm not sure how knowing that kanom pan comes from the French word for bread (pain) helps students in day to day life. I told my Japanese high school students that their word for bread パン (pan)  is derived from Portuguese. They shrugged their shoulders and got on with their physics homework. It's good for trivia I suppose.

You're right.  Some teachers are so caught up in their own wonderfulness, they forget to make learning relevant to the student.

[Petchou]

10 hours ago, petedk said:

I think that Thai students are able to think for themselves if prompted.

Often they are too lazy to think and simply agree with whatever is being said.

The biggest problem in my opinion is their lack of world affairs or even general knowledge.

I teach at a fairly big university and I also teach a couple of 10 year olds who study at a top international school.

The 10 year olds read classics and have a far greater knowledge of the world and world affairs than the university students.

Sent from my BLL-L22 using Thaivisa Connect mobile app
 

They are not missing international knowledge more than other people, you should hear American university students, you will change your mind.

There are bad tradition to not criticise or challenge people older or in position of authority.  Once they feel comfortable, they can be like any young anywhere.

[bkkgriz]

5 hours ago, connda said:

I've taught high-school aged kids here in the Land of Smiles.

 

First, simply from a generational stand-point, I don't particularly see the last couple of generations really cultivating critical thinking skill, although that acutally may be changing with Gen Xers. 

However....Thai kids.  One of the biggest problems with Thais in general, and students in particular are they are terrified of making a mistake, therefore the art of learning though trail and error is completely foreign to them.  And because they aren't willing to engage in risk, they also do not develop critical thinking skill, because risk taking, learning through experience, and the development of critical thinking go hand in hand.  Did Edison develop the light bulb the first time around?  Nope.  Not even close.  A 'Thai Edison" would never attempt the experiments for fear of losing face. 
Are there bright, risk-taking, critical thinking Thais in the Thai population?   Of course there are - but they are a small minority who have probably been exposed to other cultures other than their own. 

 

I have a similar problem in Japan. My classes are fairly large, up to 48 students, and getting a volunteer to answer a question is pretty much impossible. I think the fear of making a mistake is to blame. Now I just roll some dice and get my volunteers that way. When specifically called upon, they will answer, and 90% of the time, correctly.

[bermannor]

Many years ago I learned Thai for a couple of years at an German university. It was not a Thai person but an older German teacher.And his lectures were thrilling.

Beside Thai he spoke Pali and Sanskrit, so I learned Thai from a complete different perspective, from the roots.

 

 

 

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[bermannor]

bkkgriz, are you needed as a teacher? Give your students a learning tape. You on't need to roll a dice, just check what was spoon feeded.

[bkkgriz]

9 minutes ago, bermannor said:

Many years ago I learned Thai for a couple of years at an German university. It was not a Thai person but an older German teacher.And his lectures were thrilling.

Beside Thai he spoke Pali and Sanskrit, so I learned Thai from a complete different perspective, from the roots.

 

 

 

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Fair enough. What works for some, may not work for others, That is the real challenge of teaching. Trying to find ways to get all students interested in the topic at hand.

[whatawonderfulday]

12 minutes ago, rijb said:

You're right.  Some teachers are so caught up in their own wonderfulness, they forget to make learning relevant to the student.

Which illustrates exactly their pathetic responses on TV

[bkkgriz]

1 minute ago, bermannor said:

bkkgriz, are you needed as a teacher? Give your students a learning tape. You on't need to roll a dice, just check what was spoon feeded.

 

I need the dice to get volunteers to answer my questions. I'm trying to get a discussion going in a class of 48 kids who don't want to talk. I don't spoon feed my students. I challenge them to learn. Big difference.

[scorecard]

9 hours ago, DavisH said:

They can. They are just not taught HOW to. It's nothing to do with their intellect. It's conditioning.

How to and I would add not prompted to think or to analyze.

 

Here's my experience.

 

My Thai son studied the last 3 years of high school in Singapore. Before that in Thailand, in a not too bad so called 'Bi-lingual school'. During this time he was able to think and analyze, mostly from his home life and my encouragement to contribute to family and other discussions, and etc., and we always made it clear we were listening and continued the home discussions. But very little encouragement at school and 99% of his Thai teachers did not allow questions or discussions in the class room.

 

As most folks would know education in Singapore, all levels prompts, encourages, pushes kids to talk, to discuss, to analyze, to engage all day every day. The student centered learning approach.

 

When my son came home after a month or so in Singapore he had noticeably become much more analytical, regularly started good discussions and came up with big picture arguments rather than focus on small details, etc. 

 

IIMHO Thai kids can learn to think, to analyze etc., if /when pushed and encouraged. 

[bermannor]

Bkkgriz, teach your students that learning a language successfully is only by applying it permanently. Nothing is more ineffective than having just an English class for 2 hours once a week.

 

[bkkgriz]

10 minutes ago, bermannor said:

Bkkgriz, teach your students that learning a language successfully is only by applying it permanently. Nothing is more ineffective than having just an English class for 2 hours once a week.

 

 

Indeed. That is one of the biggest hurdles I face here. I only see my students once a week for 50 minutes. There are kids who leave school after six years of English who can't answer basic questions. I beg and plead to change the way English is taught in my school, but the directors only care about how students do on university entrance exams. Japan needs to change its education model from the top down. Unfortunately, change takes place at glacial speed here.

[bermannor]

Foreign language learning in a native country has a simple mantra (basically valid for all kind of learning): "practice, practice, practice"!

So, you as a teacher have the most important task to overcome the shyness of students to speak, and advise them how to do that. Have you seen the wonderful movie "Good morning Vietnam?"

[bermannor]

bkkgriz, I agree, you are not in a comfortable position in Japan. Students there do not learn for life but simply for the next entrance exam, so cramming is the mantra.

So no wonder, that after 3 years of English learning, the only sentence they can speak to a foreigner is: "What is your name"! ?

[scorecard]

41 minutes ago, bkkgriz said:

Indeed. That is one of the biggest hurdles I face here. I only see my students once a week for 50 minutes. There are kids who leave school after six years of English who can't answer basic questions. I beg and plead to change the way English is taught in my school, but the directors only care about how students do on university entrance exams. Japan needs to change its education model from the top down. Unfortunately, change takes place at glacial speed here.

 

Even worse, at uni in Bkk my Thai son had a 2 hr English lesson once a week. In reality my son could already read, comprehend, converse and write, in English, at a close to native speaker level.

 

His English teacher was an 18 year old abrupt girl who had no qualifications in anything and could not speak English. Each lesson went like this:

 

- Teach arrives 30 minutes late.

 

- Teacher had a hand written handout on a page ripped from an exercise book.

 

- The handout had 3 or 4 hand written sentences, all in block letters and no punctuation, example:

 

1. YESTERDAY was TODAY WAS WILL GOT SHOPPING NOW WENT NOW OK GO 

- One student sent to get copy for each student, handout distributed.

 

- No explanation of anything. Instruction from teacher 'I will read the sentence, then all students, in unison, have to read the sentence twice'.

 

- Lesson now finished, teacher immediately walks out, 45 minutes early.

 

Just one more point, the teacher was the niece of the dean of the uni.  

 

 

[swissman53]

Many time when i go in town (Korat), some students asking me  for answering a few questions in english. And every time the same rubbish. What is your name? Where you come from? What do you like to eat? How old are you? And then they have to take a picture from the whole group including me. If i'm asking some questions too, as.. Do you know where is Switzerland? No! Do you know where is Europe? No. How many years are you going to school? Aehhhhhhhh....I don't know....or, not understand...

My neigbour was an "english teacher" married with a english guy. He had to learn thai so they could chat with each other...

Edited February 26, 2017 by swissman53
Forgot something

[whatawonderfulday]

1 minute ago, scorecard said:

 

Even worse, at uni in Bkk my Thai son had a 2 hr English lesson once a week. In reality my son could already read, comprehend, converse and write, in English, at a close to native speaker level.

 

His English teacher was an 18 year old abrupt girl who had no qualifications in anything and could not speak English. Each lesson went like this:

 

- Teach arrives 30 minutes late.

 

- Teacher had a hand written handout on a page ripped from an exercise book.

 

- The handout had 3 or 4 hand written sentences, all in block letters and no punctuation, example:

 

1. YESTERDAY was TODAY WAS WILL GOT SHOPPING NOW WENT NOW OK GO 

- One student sent to get copy for each student, handout distributed.

 

- No explanation of anything. Instruction from teacher 'I will read the sentence, then all students, in unison, have to read the sentence twice'.

 

- Lesson now finished, teacher immediately walks out, 45 minutes early.

 

Just one more point, the teacher was the niece of the dean of the uni.  

 

 

Typical. Just because she was his niece means nothing.  But if you tell me she had a good figure and was pretty than that would explain it !! Seriously, English teaching in Thai schools is pathetic.  Most is American English and we all know how that is a bastardisation of true English.

[phantomfiddler]

After 36 years here I am of the opinion that this is the place Darwin was searching for.

[blazes]

12 hours ago, DavoTheGun said:

I have been Teaching in Thailand some years now, a couple of weeks ago I carried out an experiment, re Geography, I put a large World Map up and asked each of my classes to show me Thailand on the map, they are M4-6 Students, I offered a prize of 50Baht to Each student, providing their was no prompting from others. Out of about 80 Students on the day, not one could show me! I was stunned! I spoke to on of the Thai English Teachers about it and asked her if she could show me, she could not, she laughed!

National Geographic once did a survey of Americans' knowledge of world geography.

The participants were given a world map with bare spaces to be filled in.

30% of the respondents thought Brazil was America....

[mrfaroukh]

I think it is more about the Thai culture. They have learned to respect the elders specially parents, teachers . Many think that Thai people or students are stupid. But just think twice. A simple village girl make fool of a well educated person from Europe to pay huge some of money to her and her family, buy house, open a big bank account for her. And when she is done with him if she love him she stay and if she doesn't just kick him out. Now who is smart? 

[BaldPlumber]

No

[Scott]

I was involved in the Thai education system for the past 20 years.   I find that generally critical thinking skills are largely lacking.   There is nothing innate about the Thais that prevents them from thinking critical, but the culture does not at all reward critical thinking.  

 

Thais, like everyone else, are capable of critical thinking, but it is beaten out of them at an early age.   Children need to have a great deal of life experience and trial-by-error learning when they are young.   This helps them to learn how to solve problems.   By and large, Thai children are not given this opportunity at an early age.   They are now allowed to play or explore their world.   Seldom do they crawl as an infant; they are carried.   They live in a very narrow and confined world that borders on intellectual neglect.  

 

There are exceptions and there are some students who overcome these barriers, but sadly, for many it just doesn't happen.  

[Odysseus123]

4 hours ago, Scott said:

I was involved in the Thai education system for the past 20 years.   I find that generally critical thinking skills are largely lacking.   There is nothing innate about the Thais that prevents them from thinking critical, but the culture does not at all reward critical thinking.  

 

Thais, like everyone else, are capable of critical thinking, but it is beaten out of them at an early age.   Children need to have a great deal of life experience and trial-by-error learning when they are young.   This helps them to learn how to solve problems.   By and large, Thai children are not given this opportunity at an early age.   They are now allowed to play or explore their world.   Seldom do they crawl as an infant; they are carried.   They live in a very narrow and confined world that borders on intellectual neglect.  

 

There are exceptions and there are some students who overcome these barriers, but sadly, for many it just doesn't happen.  

From my personal observations around here (Isaan) I would say that your post is spot on.

The main object of the exercise appears to be to produce a collective group think.Always play to the middle-the individual is nowhere near as important as the group.Encouraging an individual to think outside the Skinner box is anathema as it destroys the group's interior "harmony" which is far more important than inventiveness or creativity.A lazy non-achieving student is a far more preferable outcome then one that produces a bunch of intellectual firebrands.

 

One presumes,historically speaking, that it mirrors the communal mindset required for intensive village based rice farming economies to survive and thrive-being a bunch of pushy individuals in such circumstances would only have led to disaster.

 

The problem now is how to make education somewhat congruent with the West's expectations?The solution-create a Potemkin village and hope that everyone is fooled by the external (superficial) appearance and maybe-just maybe- those noisy,analytical and critical "foreigners" and ASEAN will go away one day....along with motor cycle helmets and the wearing of seat belts and all those other superficial encumbrances foisted upon them.

Edited February 27, 2017 by Odysseus123
clarity