Appeals Court upholds death penalty for Koh Tao murders

[stephenterry]

1 minute ago, saminoz said:

It's safe because the RTP, the court and the grinch say so!!!

Which has been the prosecution's case all along. The RTP said it was them so they did it. Good old reliable RTP, huh?  

[sanemax]

31 minutes ago, DiscoDan said:

what argument are.you trying to make ?I'd there was a partial match with Mind of would that make him innocent even if there was a dna match with the victim ?

Can you really not understand ?

Imagine your telephone number ,

Its like me saying that your telephone number has 3 digits the same as my telephone number , so that means we both have the same telephone number, so we are the same person .

   (Completely disregarding the other 8 digits in the phone numbers)

[greenchair]

1 hour ago, alant said:

And the UK government say nothing

The UK judge said there was nothing in their report that would be of use to exonerate the 2, therefore it would be a pointless exercise to break treaties to give information. Andy did go to meet with the coroner, then did a

backpeddle about wanting the UK to test dna and reveal what they know. The UK, in my opinion supported the verdict. Guilty. 

[sanemax]

4 minutes ago, greenchair said:

The UK judge said 

Which UK Judge was that, who said that ?

[stephenterry]

A key extract from the media report:

the Koh Samui court said evidence presented by the state in the original trial was adequate and reliable, and therefore declined to overturn the December 2015 verdict.

 

...and thereby completely ignoring the defence submission, which detailed exactly what was unreliable (and why), i.e the DNA evidence - which was the cornerstone of the original court's verdict. If I remember correctly, the judge stated words to the effect that the DNA evidence produced by the state trumped everything else.

 

In which case, I am minded to believe that the same judge is unable to understand what DNA evidence is required to prove beyond reasonable doubt - but more likely the statement is just rhetoric as it had already been decided to dismiss the appeal.

 

 

 

[DiscoDan]

31 minutes ago, stephenterry said:

Apart from not understanding what you've written from an English grammatical POV , let me put it this way:

 

If one of the B2's DNA was on the alleged murder weapon it would be a 99.99% match, not a partial match, not a 25% match or whatever % that was recorded. In effect, that rules out his involvement from a DNA point of view.  

 

Bearing in mind both victims DNA were on the hoe, logically it was some other perp who committed murder. That is as reliable as night follows day. 

Simple question if it was Nomsod  on trial and there was a partial match with him and the hoe, and there was a full dna match. Would that make him innocent ? Because it was not a full profile on the hoe does that mean he definitely did not touch it ?

 

I notice no one is mentioning that the  dna from the victim was replicated anymore  as an excuse, another allegation that has proved to be a myth.

[saminoz]

54 minutes ago, DiscoDan said:

what argument are.you trying to make ?I'd there was a partial match with Mind of would that make him innocent even if there was a dna match with the victim ?

If it was a quarter partial match to one of the accused scapegoats, how many hundreds of thousands more people would have fit that quarter partial match?

[greenchair]

13 minutes ago, sanemax said:

Can you really not understand ?

Imagine your telephone number ,

Its like me saying that your telephone number has 3 digits the same as my telephone number , so that means we both have the same telephone number, so we are the same person .

   (Completely disregarding the other 8 digits in the phone numbers)

Well no, because if you were on an island of 250 people you would only share those same 3 digits with 4 or 5 other people. 

Out of those 5 people maybe 4 were in the same place at some time of the night. 

3 left belongings behind. 

2 were caught on video 

But only one did all of the above. 

Had an object belonging to the victim and had a full dna with those same 3 digits on the victim. 

As the judge said, it is not one thing that reached the verdict. 

You must look at everything together in a whole package. 

[sanemax]

1 minute ago, DiscoDan said:

Simple question if it was Nomsod  on trial and there was a partial match with him and the hoe, and there was a full dna match. Would that make him innocent ? Because it was not a full profile on the hoe does that mean he definitely did not touch it ?

 

   The person who had the full DNA match would show that he was the murderer

The person who only has a partial DNA match would show it wasnt him (based on that evidence .

    It doesnt matter whether it was Nomsod or the Burmese boys , the same rules apply to both and everyone else

 

 

[sanemax]

3 minutes ago, greenchair said:

Well no, because if you were on an island of 250 people you would only share those same 3 digits with 4 or 5 other people. 

 

 

  No, 25% of the 250 would share those same numbers .

(Although I am talking about DNA, rather than just telephone numbers)

 

 

[soalbundy]

secretly, say's it all, it would appear that even the judges are ashamed.

[greenchair]

I looked at the Thai news. They got about 30 seconds tv time and nobody is protesting their innocence anymore. These lawyers should stop the bullshit. take the guilty plea and beg the supreme Court for a reduction in sentence. 

Not that I mind them staying in jail, still that would reduce their sentence by many years if the judge was feeling generous on that day. 

[stephenterry]

2 minutes ago, DiscoDan said:

Simple question if it was Nomsod  on trial and there was a partial match with him and the hoe, and there was a full dna match. Would that make him innocent ? Because it was not a full profile on the hoe does that mean he definitely did not touch it ?

 

I notice no one is mentioning that the  dna from the victim was replicated anymore  as an excuse, another allegation that has proved to be a myth.

If Nomsod was on trial, and there was a partial match on the hoe, it would not prove anything. That's why it's dangerous to convict anyone of murder based on that.

 

However had DNA been taken from both David and Hannah's clothes (the latter's went missing!) it could have been proven that any accused on trial had been involved beyond reasonable doubt. It was the absence of any such evidence, which doesn't surprise me as it would also have been a negative match with the B2, IMO, because had they really been murderers this ACTUAL evidence would have sealed the prosecution's case. 

 

As far as the 'DNA evidence' (a one page report full of crossing outs) produced in court is nothing but hearsay, as no original samples were made available - that's if any existed at all.

 

...and there you have it...

 

 

 

[DM07]

This whole case was a messy shame from day 1!

From the trampled- on- crime scene to the re- arranged crime scene to the abysmal handling of evidence to the forced confessions to the laughable court- case to the secret upholding of the verdict!

Anybody who is not able to see that, should have their heads checked!

Just two things: if it was your son on trial, would you be satisfied with the handling of this case?

(If the answer is "yes", a head check would do you no good after all!)

And even IF the B2 were involved in the murder or be guilty of it, the laughable handling of the case makes it absolutely impossible, to ever prove that, beyond a shaddow of a doubt!

And that is, what even the RTP-shills should see...if they are willing to open their eyes!

[DM07]

7 minutes ago, greenchair said:

I looked at the Thai news. They got about 30 seconds tv time and nobody is protesting their innocence anymore. These lawyers should stop the bullshit. take the guilty plea and beg the supreme Court for a reduction in sentence. 

Not that I mind them staying in jail, still that would reduce their sentence by many years if the judge was feeling generous on that day. 

I know some other people, who should stop the BS!

I also could tell them, what else they should do, but I love my posting rights!

[sanemax]

1 hour ago, Marvo said:

That's a real nugget of a story there FXE!

Was   Pol Lt-Gen Panya Mamen the guy who was swiftly taken off the case?

As I recall , he said something like "We know who did it and there will not be a cover-up" he said that just after the murders .

   He named the suspects and said they were currently looking for them to arest them

   He then got moved from the case and relieved of his duties and never heard of again

[smedly]

22 minutes ago, greenchair said:

Well no, because if you were on an island of 250 people you would only share those same 3 digits with 4 or 5 other people. 

Out of those 5 people maybe 4 were in the same place at some time of the night. 

3 left belongings behind. 

2 were caught on video 

But only one did all of the above. 

Had an object belonging to the victim and had a full dna with those same 3 digits on the victim. 

As the judge said, it is not one thing that reached the verdict. 

You must look at everything together in a whole package. 

the part you are missing is that all Asians have the potential to match 3 digits because their DNA is largely the same - it is either a match to an individual ticking all the boxes or it isn't - in this case the latter is correct

 

stop spreading and repeating this hogwash and lies - you really are a piece of work 

 

the DNA actual report - that itself is a joke, and no way the defence could verify the findings and even bigger joke

 

 

1. It consists of a one page table replete with hand written amendments, date changes and data alterations. This document would NOT be admissible in any court in the UK, Australia, USA, EU, Hong Kong, Malaysia or Singapore.

2. It is NOT supported by any case notes, chain-of-custody records, nor statistics based on validated population data bases. The omission of that information is a COMPLETE abrogation of international ISO 17025 standards and would lead to a FULL audit of the police laboratory by an international accreditation agency!

3. The table has been used to match DNA components, which is an extreme oversimplification of the entire DNA process! It relies on single alleles rather than genotypes. (An allele is ONE of a pair of genes that appear in ONE part of a chromosome that help to determine heredity traits.)

4. Because there is NO statistical analysis to determine the probability of the stated frequencies in the table, it is absolutely NOT possible to determine the likelihood of the accused as being the contributors to the mixture! There, in fact, could be a VERY large number of other individuals who could NOT be ruled out as contributors!

5. It is, therefore, COMPLETELY erroneous (wrong) to claim a DNA match on the basis of the position of mere alleles on a DNA molecule without statistics to determine the probability!

For these reasons, it CANNOT be said (from any kind of scientific or legal standpoint) that there was a match between the DNA from the semen the police alleged to have and the DNA that was (forcibly, without consent or legal representation) retrieved from the two accused! Basing the conviction on COMPLETELY flawed DNA evidence has resulted in an EXTREME miscarriage of justice!

[Jai Dee]

Several flame posts and troll posts have been removed from this thread.

 

A couple of members have also had their posting rights removed for a short while.

 

C'mon guys... you know the rules.

 

If you don't want this topic shut down like all the previous KT topics, then keep your discussions civil and on-topic.

[soalbundy]

2 minutes ago, sanemax said:

As I recall , he said something like "We know who did it and there will not be a cover-up" he said that just after the murders .

   He named the suspects and said they were currently looking for them to arest them

   He then got moved from the case and relieved of his duties and never heard of again

He was lucky that they didn't find his finger prints on the hoe all of a sudden.

[sanemax]

37 minutes ago, greenchair said:

 

What happened to the Scottish guy ?

The two original suspects chased him around the Island just after the murders

He posted on FB that they were trying to kill him and make it look like a suicide and blame him for the murders.

That shows the two Thais must have known about the murders , soon after they happened .

   How did they know about the murders?

Why didnt they immediately inform the RTP

Why did they seek to make the Scottish guy a scapegoat ?

How come the Scottish guy has never been heard of since?

Why has that incident never been fully, or even partially explained ?

 

[thetruth revealer]

1 hour ago, fxe1200 said:

You may not criticize a Thai court, but the Thai court may treat the defense with contempt. Let us have a look at an old website, which told us all we needed to know already:  http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/one-tourist-murder-suspect-now-arrested-another-run/

 

 

And , obviously they stepped on somebody high ranking feets ....So , they removed said Police Command.....What a farce of Trial afterwords !!!!

[Artisi]

14 hours ago, DiscoDan said:

DNA remnants not replicated 

 

Definition : a remaining usually small part, quantity number or the like 

 

http://www.khaosodenglish.com/news/crimecourtscalamity/2015/12/25/1451042373/

 

However, the defense team eventually abandoned the idea of the retest, saying they were unsure whether the DNA remnants would still make for an accurate retest.

 

http://www.greatyarmouthmercury.co.uk/news/defence_team_reverse_demands_to_retest_dna_found_on_body_of_hannah_witheridge_1_4204183

 

the lead defence lawyer said today that it would no longer serve any useful purpose and they believe their own experts will effectively discredit the prosecutions’ case.

Nakhon Chomphuchat intimated that control of the re-testing procedure was the issue, as the results would not be directly returned to the defence, but to the police and then the court.

 

 

 

Do you think that Nakhon might have been making a point re police integrity?

[smedly]

There is not one part of this investigation that I can think of that was done correctly, the whole thing stinks from start to finish..................all of it

 

- The original team of investigators suddenly removed when they looked like they were actually making the correct enquiries

 

- withheld cctv from the last place the victims were seen before they were murdered, with reports of an altercation involving Hannah 

 

- Phone unaccounted for that was found at the crime scene !!!!!!!

 

- Puncture wounds on Davids body clearly seen in photos and remain unexplained - looked exactly like the wound a shark tooth would make

 

- The clothing lost, other evidence lost

 

- How Mon was able to identify that the hoe was the murder weapon even though it wasn't on the beach and in the place it should have been and then got the gardener/handyman who had removed it to put it back under the tree - seriously !!!!!!!!!!!! that one really blows me away - there is only one possible way he could have connected the (at the time)  MISSING hoe to the murders

 

- DNA that cannot be reliably retested to confirm a match to B2 - how convenient when such supposed sperm samples from the alleged rape by the B2 would have been enormous in quantity, the UK coroner said she found no evidence of rape on/in Hannahs body - that would include sperm  - go figure

 

- No CCTV of the B2 leaving the beach yet there were working cameras everywhere that were on all night as seen from various video footage that was released

 

the list is endless

 

 

 

Something happened in that bar that night and Hannah lost her life because of it, David I believe happened upon the scene of the assault on Hannah and was brutally murdered trying to save her - someone that was used to getting what they wanted praying on young Western women  was denied by Hannah and didn't like it - lets remember that this is an Island were Thais and farangs are socialising/drinking in the same places - in most holiday locations in Thailand that doesn't happen for obvious reasons - it is a well known fact that Thais on these islands are praying on young western woman - ideal when they feed them all sorts of drugs booze get them off their heads then select their next victim - a well seasoned and rehersed routine that has been going on for years - try saying no and you are on your way to a big mess of trouble  

[JacChang]

They did so to protect the Thai Justice System, to admit fault, would attack the very core existence of the Thai Justice System and police. When all fails, chaos starts.

 

Sadly, the two lives were sacrificed for this cause none of us wanted. It's always those corrupted powerful people protecting their "system" and controlling the normal human beings.

 

Stand up, never tolerate anything you don't believe in. Fight back.

[Khon Kaen Dave]

Never expected anything else, regardless of guilt or innocence..The judges could not be seen to  lose face and admit anything was inadequate.The system, could not be seen to lose face, and admit that maybe their justice system is total shit.

Run,  represented, and acted out by children dressed as adults.

[thetruth revealer]

11 minutes ago, smedly said:

There is not one part of this investigation that I can think of that was done correctly, the whole thing stinks from start to finish..................all of it

 

- The original team of investigators suddenly removed when they looked like they were actually making the correct enquiries

 

- withheld cctv from the last place the victims were seen before they were murdered, with reports of an altercation involving Hannah 

 

- Phone unaccounted for that was found at the crime scene !!!!!!!

 

- Puncture wounds on Davids body clearly seen in photos and remain unexplained - looked exactly like the wound a shark tooth would make

 

- The clothing lost, other evidence lost

 

- How Mon was able to identify that the hoe was the murder weapon even though it wasn't on the beach and in the place it should have been and then got the gardener/handyman who had removed it to put it back under the tree - seriously !!!!!!!!!!!! that one really blows me away - there is only one possible way he could have connected the (at the time)  MISSING hoe to the murders

 

- DNA that cannot be reliably retested to confirm a match to B2 - how convenient when such supposed sperm samples from the alleged rape by the B2 would have been enormous in quantity, the UK coroner said she found no evidence of rape on/in Hannahs body - that would include sperm  - go figure

 

- No CCTV of the B2 leaving the beach yet there were working cameras everywhere that were on all night as seen from various video footage that was released

 

the list is endless

 

 

 

Something happened in that bar that night and Hannah lost her life because of it, David I believe happened upon the scene of the assault on Hannah and was brutally murdered trying to save her - someone that was used to getting what they wanted praying on young Western women  was denied by Hannah and didn't like it - lets remember that this is an Island were Thais and farangs are socialising/drinking in the same places - in most holiday locations in Thailand that doesn't happen for obvious reasons - it is a well known fact that Thais on these islands are praying on young western woman - ideal when they feed them all sorts of drugs booze get them off their heads then select their next victim - a well seasoned and rehersed routine that has been going on for years - try saying no and you are on your way to a big mess of trouble  

The reputation of the Bar , related to the murder... Its a well known place for drugs , and other crimes in the past repeatedly.

I also personally know from a case of another young blonde woman, which was held on Ko Tao  by keeping her PASSPORT, she told me about that when i spent some time on the Island.... And most probably she  is still there in "good company ".....

 

No Fake

 

 

 

[sanemax]

7 minutes ago, Khon Kaen Dave said:

Never expected anything else, regardless of guilt or innocence..The judges could not be seen to  lose face and admit anything was inadequate.The system, could not be seen to lose face, and admit that maybe their justice system is total shit.

Run,  represented, and acted out by children dressed as adults.

I do think that theres more to it than that .

KPG is quite famous to its drug availability .

The KT village  headman seems to have some influence with the Police chiefs .

Influencing who investigates .

  Big money from the drug trade .

Police turn a blind eye .

Local mafia protected 

Is it all connected ?

[Khon Kaen Dave]

sanemax

For Gawd's sake mate, thats what i meant,  but encompassed everything you have said but in a much shorter version.I know all these people exist, all the villany of head men and dodgy DNA, and sons who said they were at college and weren't.i know all that.Dodgy cops, drugs, bribe money.Of course its connected.What do you expect here.

[elgordo38]

19 hours ago, Jonathan Fairfield said:

The ruling was came as a surprise to defense lawyers, who said they had no knowledge the court made a ruling last week, which it apparently relayed to their clients without notification.

 

Their ink pad for the rubber stamp ran dry sorry. 

[brewsterbudgen]

And the victims?

The victims were from the UK but unfortunately there is nothing the UK government can do for them. The UK police were involved in the investigation but to not much effect. The victims' relatives have mostly expressed satisfaction with the case.

The two people found guilty of the crime are from Myanmar and there is nothing the UK government can do for them.