Visa Difficult? So Now Farangs Feel What Asians Feel!

[lopburi3]

The US offers immigrant visas to those married to Americans and that provides everything but requires a few months to process.

The 10 year non immigrant visitors visa is just for travel type visits. Generally I believe they will be limited to six months or less per year (but there can be exceptions). It requires the normal proof that you will leave. It is not a visa to remain in the US on. It is the visa for family visits/vacations.

[Heng]

If you want to talk about the outflow of wealth and assets + investment in one's local environment: given the nature (broad generalization alert, and it varies of course) of Asian cultures vs. western cultures, this results in an outflow of wealth and assets from western countries more than it does from Asian countries.

Actually, I'd expect that in the last 200 years the outflow of wealth has benefitted Europe - colonialism really had a way of doing that. For example, after Hernan Cortes conquored Mexico City, he sent 7 thousand tons of silver to Europe and more than one thousand tons of gold. Thats more than double what all of Europe had. And where is Mexico today?

And where is Spain today? They'd be better off (not a trillion US$ in debt), IMO if they were still drawing income and wealth (and countries aren't always the sum of their "portable" natural resources) from Mexico. An excellent example though that I feel goes along with my comment. Britain would be better off if they still had a permanent stake in China, India, and everywhere else they were temporarily. And the same for the Romans, Mongolians, and Persians....

Every single Asian culture that I can think of sends wealth home... and their communities outside of Asian tend to be going concerns (permanent or at least planned as permanent). Westerners do it as well, but on a far smaller scale. Again, I'm more referring to the individual and SME level (like... Vietnam was virtually rebuilt by Vietnamese Americans in the same way that Cuba benefits greatly from Cuban Americans sending wealth home; overseas Chinese pouring funds into China, etc). For arguments sake I'll say that multinationals balance each other out and are temporary when compared to communities. It might be difficult to determine who benefits or loses more when it comes to multinationals.

My comment was mere speculation that the 'going concern' nature of Asian communities in the west vs. the rather temporary nature of western communities in the east IMO results in a net loss of wealth from the west. Again, I accept and state again that it's a broad generalization that surely has exceptions.

edit: and before I get an off topic flag... And because of these overseas communities, millions of Asians are born in the west with no visa or citizenship worries. How many westerners are born in Asia in the same way? These overseas Asian folks grow up, can move to Asia and produce another generation of Asians who don't need to worry about western visas or citizenship without ever setting foot in the west (all of my children, all to be born in Thailand, will never have to worry about getting a visa to go to the US and therefore anywhere else an American can go, for example). It almost seems unfair -if one looks at the big picture- that some Asian folks insist on feeling petty anger at having their own visa application refused.

Edited December 19, 2006 by Heng

[drummer]

I rather suspect that the amount of 'sending wealth home' has far more to do with income potential than culture. Certainly, Asians respect their parents to a far greater degree than Westerners, and the Asian obligation (hey that'd make a good band name, along with Iranian Uranium) to give them financial help is a lot stronger, but the real mechanism is purely the income potential gradient.

I think another more important factor is the amount of manufacturing, which also puts Asia at an advantage. I don't have the numbers in front of me, but I know America is running big trade deficits, and countries like Vietnam and China, and likely Thailand, are exporting more than they import. I don't doubt the conclusion, just that there are a lot more things going on.

My son has to enter the Thai miliary to keep his Thai citizenship. His American passport is his birthright. I certainly agree with your conclusion there. Personally, I suspect that a multicultural society is stronger than a homogenous one.

[Jonson83]

junkofdavid2,

You are generalising a bit by using the term 'asians' .Be more specific.Japanese,korean,fillipinos,thais,laotian etc etc

Asians from certain(poor) countries might have a hard time getting in certain western nations(not mine tho..the UK).Thats because they are poor and can't spend that much money and then there is the chance that they won't <deleted> leave! Those that have the money will be let in.There is just to much evidence showing us that rich asians can get into western nations with no trouble at all.For example,the Japanese.You know why? because they are rich,they will spend lots of money and then they will go home and maybe return for another holiday the next year.

Now farangs in thailand,ohh they don't spend any money at all.Just take take take where farangs are concerned.I didn't really spend upward of $9k of my own money this year in SEA.Tourism doesn't really account for for 10% (or more?) of Thailands GDP....

Being serious,about wealthy asians walking into the west..

Please read,

http://www.hotel-online.com/News/PR2004_4t...JapanVegas.html

http://www.tourism.jp/english/statistics/outbound/

http://www.cnn.com/2003/TRAVEL/11/20/austr...reut/index.html

"CANBERRA, Australia (Reuters) -- Australia is hoping to lure WEALTHY ASIAN TOURISTS and other upmarket travellers with a major campaign to help its tourism industry overcome the fear of terrorism and effects of the SARS virus and Iraq war. "

Its pretty simple,if you have money to spend.Our Goverments will want you to come.If you don't.Some western goverments will be wary of you.

I can't help but feel this is just another asian rant,you know chip on the shoulder thing..ahem.Your not letting us in ,just because were oriental etc...

[junkofdavid2]

junkofdavid2,

You are generalising a bit by using the term 'asians' .Be more specific.Japanese,korean,fillipinos,thais,laotian etc etc

Asians from certain(poor) countries might have a hard time getting in certain western nations(not mine tho..the UK).Thats because they are poor and can't spend that much money and then there is the chance that they won't <deleted> leave! Those that have the money will be let in.There is just to much evidence showing us that rich asians can get into western nations with no trouble at all.For example,the Japanese.You know why? because they are rich,they will spend lots of money and then they will go home and maybe return for another holiday the next year.

Now farangs in thailand,ohh they don't spend any money at all.Just take take take where farangs are concerned.I didn't really spend upward of $9k of my own money this year in SEA.Tourism doesn't really account for for 10% (or more?) of Thailands GDP....

Being serious,about wealthy asians walking into the west..

Please read,

http://www.hotel-online.com/News/PR2004_4t...JapanVegas.html

http://www.tourism.jp/english/statistics/outbound/

http://www.cnn.com/2003/TRAVEL/11/20/austr...reut/index.html

"CANBERRA, Australia (Reuters) -- Australia is hoping to lure WEALTHY ASIAN TOURISTS and other upmarket travellers with a major campaign to help its tourism industry overcome the fear of terrorism and effects of the SARS virus and Iraq war. "

Its pretty simple,if you have money to spend.Our Goverments will want you to come.If you don't.Some western goverments will be wary of you.

I can't help but feel this is just another asian rant,you know chip on the shoulder thing..ahem.Your not letting us in ,just because were oriental etc...

I have no doubt that western countries want "rich Asians" (okay Southeast Asians aside from Singapore) to come to your countries.

What I am talking about is the process which these rich Southeast Asians have to go through just to "prove" that they're "one of the few" rich ones.

Complaining about that? Nope. Just pointing out that this "process" is now similar to what Farangs have to go through starting January in order to also "prove" that they are "legit" farangs and not the "non-legit" farangs.

Lastly, I think you misunderstood the post a bit. Rich and poor Asians is different from rich and poor Asian countries.

In trying to lure, as you say, rich Asians, western countries relaxed rules on rich Asian countries such as, as you say, Japan. However, if you look at the visa application process which "rich Asians from poor Asian countries" have to go through, you will see that western countries are not luring these rich Asians at all (the rich Asians from poor Asian countries)

[rogerdee123]

Also the other point is immigration ... i.e. citizenship.

Over the years I've been amazed at the number of Thai's (in Thailand) who hold green cards (US resident status ... the step before US citizenship). A lot of these people are in very high positions in both industry and Government and Military. Really the numbers amaze me.

Back when things were a bit easier, I used to write letters for Thai friends who wanted to "visit" the USA and usually a letter from a US Citizen legitimately working in Thailand carried a lot of weight (no longer). I hate to say it but many of these individuals overstayed their visas .. working etc. Some have become citizens. Even today I know Thais who are applying for tourist or student visas who have intentions of finding a job in the USA and staying there.

The problem is ... the US has a quota for new citizens ... Thailand (like every other country) has a quota. There are Thai's who have been approved for immigration but who are waiting in line ... sometimes for years ... for their visas to immigrate to the USA. But every time a Thai tourist overstays and finds a job and then applies for a green card .... they take one of the slots in the quota. And the sincere Thai individual patiently waiting in line gets pushed back another space.

This is why the consular officers put everyone thru the wringer. These consular officers get really frustrated because good legitimate Thai applicants (some who are waiting to join family in the USA) for immigration keep being pushed back by tourists or students who overstay and end up taking one of the slots. This is why these consular officers at the embassy have become such bastards and bitches.

But anyway back to the point I was originally intending to make ....

OK a few Americans and Europeans may desire to become Thai citizens ... but my guess is not many and not usually the leaders of industry.

Sure a lot of Europeans and Americans would like to live in Thailand and enjoy the weather, food, beaches etc ... but not so many want to become Thai citizens.

The opposite is true for Thais and several other Asian (and African, Latin American, Eastern European, etc) nationalities .... they are actively seeking US or other European citizenship ... they say they are tourists but really they have every intention of immigrating if they can manage it ... and because of lax immigration policies, they can if they are persistant and willing to take advantage of the systems.

If no one could become citizens of another country .... I think the tourist visas to the USA and Europe would be very easy.

Sorry if I've upset anyone. Not intended. I too am embarrassed when my Thai friends are treated so badly at my Embassy.

[crocodilexp]

Of more importance is to compare like with like. Could a Thai single male with a bit of money who like the Californian climate, enjoys Californian wines, fancies a bit of Californian ***** front up in California and be given the right to stay for 30 days without any visa? Could he stay for years provided that every 30 days he crooes the border into Mexico? I do not know the answer, but if he can you have a point. This seems to be what many farang regard as their absolute right in Thailand.

Unfortunate as it may be, it all comes down to wealth and qualifications.

For the sake of the argument, let's say that an average salary in California is $2.000/month. Now, take the ratio of a solid Thai salary 10k baht, and a western salary in Thailand 40k baht (4x), western salary out of Thailand 80k baht (8x).

Assume that the said Thai guy earns $16.000/mo outside of the U.S. and would be able to earns $8.000 /mo in the U.S.

I'd say it would be no problem for him to come and stay in the California for a long time. I know several people who hold 10 or 5-year tourist visas to the U.S.

Compare like to like.

[Ijustwannateach]

I have the feeling that this topic is going to end in tears, but here're my two cents anyway:

Immigration departments in every country are trained by nature to be suspicious of foreign immigration and primarily attempt to promote the country's laws and interests. In a sense, their staff are the worst possible people (from the point of view of the foreign immigrant) to be dealing with. I'm familiar with the way my own country deals with immigrants (at the local-office level, too) and with the way several countries here in Asia deal with their tourists and immigrants.

Basically, you wind up with embassy staff that are usually xenophobic and bubble-sheltered (with exceptions, I know, I know). The U.S. even makes sure they rotate around so frequently that no one has a chance to "go native." No country that I know of makes full residency and citizenship rights truly easy for the masses- Heng's claim that it's easy for Asians to "settle" in the U.S. leaves out a lot of the pain and trouble that normal (poor or middle-class) immigrants have adapting and getting by while they're raising that 2nd generation that's supposedly going to be on the gravy train. As for continued patterns of sending money back to their own countries- it doesn't seem likely for that to persist beyond a generation or so in most families, and even the first immigrant generation- for example a man I know (same age as me) whose parents sent him to the U.S. from Vietnam when he was a baby, and who steadfastly refuses to fall in line with his father's plan for him to support them economically- doesn't always work out this way after influence from U.S. culture.

While the U.S. may be easier on married couples in some ways, you still have investigations- sometimes very intrusive and personal ones- to verify a couple is truly living together- and while the foreign partner him/herself may not be required to have a specific income, there may be questions of the U.S. partner's ability to support a spouse. It doesn't really seem to be a cakewalk on either side, and from what I've seen of the intergenerational tensions especially between first- and second-generation Asian immigrants in the U.S., many Asian immigrants may wonder from the behavior of their U.S.-acculturated children if it wouldn't have been better for them to remain poorer but also Asian.

There are some competitive advantage differences, too- so since Asian doctors and nurses cost less to educate, the U.S. can snap them up and fast-track them through immigration; likewise, certain educated professionals from the U.S. have skills to offer "developing" nations and are worth a higher premium than paid locally.

There are lots of challenges on each side. Don't see much point or accuracy to declaring that one side or the other truly has it "easier" in any global sense.

"Steven"

[edh]

Funnily enough, it was neither a lottery nor humiliating for my husband and I when we applied after we first got married. Oddly enough, we were both quite young, I had no job in the US, had just finished University and we planned on living with my parents and getting it was no huge difficulty. Lots of paperwork, yes, but eventually, because we qualified and my husband had no criminal record, it came through.

I often wonder how many people who have difficulties find they do so because they don't actually qualify?

Maybe so, sbk, and you were both fortunate.

The USA is not the same USA anymore since you married and that was quite some time ago. But you know better than me.

The US has become an unfriendly country to visit. The number of tourists is in sharp decline and even the number of business visitors is going down.

I read an article that the US ministry of tourism is talking now with Disney about HOW to stop this trend...

Not so long ago many Europeans were visiting the US for a holiday...not anymore.

I always enjoyed visiting the US untill some 10-12 years ago; I even built my own business in SF/California but it's no fun anymore since people do NOT enjoy handing over all their private information to the US authorities and waiting in line for hours once arriving at the airport(s) greeted by unfriendly customs/passport authorities asking (again) so many questions.

Sad but true.

LaoPo

What does a tourism decline in the US have to do with obtaining a visa? What role does Walt Disney play in the issuing of visas? What do new European holiday trends have to do with US visas? What does you thinking that the US is "no fun anymore" have to do with US visa policies??

Both you and the OP have obtained the visas that you're complaining it's too hard to obtain... was the paperwork THAT difficult?

BTW, there is no Ministry of Tourism in the US.

and customs officials are not meant to be friendly.

Sad but true.

CBP’s Pledge to Travelers

(06/15/2006)

We pledge to cordially greet and welcome you to the United States.

We pledge to treat you with courtesy, dignity, and respect.

We pledge to explain the CBP process to you.

We pledge to have a supervisor listen to your comments.

We pledge to accept and respond to your comments in written, verbal, or electronic form.

We pledge to provide reasonable assistance due to delay or disability

[CRUNCHER]

Of more importance is to compare like with like. Could a Thai single male with a bit of money who like the Californian climate, enjoys Californian wines, fancies a bit of Californian ***** front up in California and be given the right to stay for 30 days without any visa? Could he stay for years provided that every 30 days he crooes the border into Mexico? I do not know the answer, but if he can you have a point. This seems to be what many farang regard as their absolute right in Thailand.

Unfortunate as it may be, it all comes down to wealth and qualifications.

For the sake of the argument, let's say that an average salary in California is $2.000/month. Now, take the ratio of a solid Thai salary 10k baht, and a western salary in Thailand 40k baht (4x), western salary out of Thailand 80k baht (8x).

Assume that the said Thai guy earns $16.000/mo outside of the U.S. and would be able to earns $8.000 /mo in the U.S.

I'd say it would be no problem for him to come and stay in the California for a long time. I know several people who hold 10 or 5-year tourist visas to the U.S.

Compare like to like.

But these 5 and 10 year US tourist visas do not give the king of residency rights in the states that many farang aare looking for in Thailand

[Vespa]

Unfortunate as it may be, it all comes down to wealth and qualifications.

And a quota system , The Embassy needs to approve a certain amount of visa's per month in relation to the numbers they deny.

[Heng]

No country that I know of makes full residency and citizenship rights truly easy for the masses- Heng's claim that it's easy for Asians to "settle" in the U.S. leaves out a lot of the pain and trouble that normal (poor or middle-class) immigrants have adapting and getting by while they're raising that 2nd generation that's supposedly going to be on the gravy train. As for continued patterns of sending money back to their own countries- it doesn't seem likely for that to persist beyond a generation or so in most families, and even the first immigrant generation- for example a man I know (same age as me) whose parents sent him to the U.S. from Vietnam when he was a baby, and who steadfastly refuses to fall in line with his father's plan for him to support them economically- doesn't always work out this way after influence from U.S. culture.

Like anything else, it's all relative (except for the sheer numbers of Asians permanently settled in the west compared to westerners settled in the east, which is clearly one sided). Whether it's easy or not, the results are what they are. As for repatriation of funds, the man you know aside, it's simple 80-20 rule (Pareto named it, but it likely could be applied to all humanity long before he named it) and physics: specifically the path of least resistance. Those who are relevant can and do repatriate and invest. Again, it's relative... overseas Chinese do a bit more; overseas Indians less so, but still significant; overseas Mongolians are probably way down the list, etc.

As for the why, for those who are relevant and do repatriate/invest funds, it's difficult to come up with a generalization, whether cultural or economic, but it doesn't negate the fact that it takes place. I certainly wasn't suggesting it was all or even mostly for altruistic reasons. I would guess less resistance in terms of tax and legal rigidity is an important one for many folks. Should I keep my net income where I am subject to a X% or XX% tax?; where there is almost no property tax or where I must make yearly payments?; where there is no real tax enforcement authority?; Not to mention where there is much much more room for development and gain. They can also do so because they typically have a clear cut advantage over both of their countrymen (their homeland AND western countrymen). I'm not just talking about business families either. Whether it's overseas Asians building factories employing thousands or working class folks who choose to have that second home in Asia instead of in Florida, the reasons are along the same line.

It's nothing new that I'm suggesting. Some westerners do the exact same thing, it's just that their 'relevant' folks are going to be fewer and farther between because of their incomplete generational immigration circle.

[LindsayBKK]

I think you part right but mostly wrong in your prognosis as one has to look at each case seperately. I have lots of Thai friends but some just do not have the income to travel like westerners do nor as frequent, thus the check by immigrations to secure no people will overstay their visa and have sufficient funds to travel same as westerners have do in Thailand.

English? What percentage of Thais going to embassies can speak adequately to answer questions regarding their travel plans?

Thailand is a strange country and is ever more being seen as anti-western so maybe one day we will not be in Thailand and you will be free to travel to USA or Australia as much as you like.

[Jonson83]

junkofdavid2,

You are generalising a bit by using the term 'asians' .Be more specific.Japanese,korean,fillipinos,thais,laotian etc etc

Asians from certain(poor) countries might have a hard time getting in certain western nations(not mine tho..the UK).Thats because they are poor and can't spend that much money and then there is the chance that they won't <deleted> leave! Those that have the money will be let in.There is just to much evidence showing us that rich asians can get into western nations with no trouble at all.For example,the Japanese.You know why? because they are rich,they will spend lots of money and then they will go home and maybe return for another holiday the next year.

Now farangs in thailand,ohh they don't spend any money at all.Just take take take where farangs are concerned.I didn't really spend upward of $9k of my own money this year in SEA.Tourism doesn't really account for for 10% (or more?) of Thailands GDP....

Being serious,about wealthy asians walking into the west..

Please read,

http://www.hotel-online.com/News/PR2004_4t...JapanVegas.html

http://www.tourism.jp/english/statistics/outbound/

http://www.cnn.com/2003/TRAVEL/11/20/austr...reut/index.html

"CANBERRA, Australia (Reuters) -- Australia is hoping to lure WEALTHY ASIAN TOURISTS and other upmarket travellers with a major campaign to help its tourism industry overcome the fear of terrorism and effects of the SARS virus and Iraq war. "

Its pretty simple,if you have money to spend.Our Goverments will want you to come.If you don't.Some western goverments will be wary of you.

I can't help but feel this is just another asian rant,you know chip on the shoulder thing..ahem.Your not letting us in ,just because were oriental etc...

I have no doubt that western countries want "rich Asians" (okay Southeast Asians aside from Singapore) to come to your countries.

What I am talking about is the process which these rich Southeast Asians have to go through just to "prove" that they're "one of the few" rich ones.

Complaining about that? Nope. Just pointing out that this "process" is now similar to what Farangs have to go through starting January in order to also "prove" that they are "legit" farangs and not the "non-legit" farangs.

Lastly, I think you misunderstood the post a bit. Rich and poor Asians is different from rich and poor Asian countries.

In trying to lure, as you say, rich Asians, western countries relaxed rules on rich Asian countries such as, as you say, Japan. However, if you look at the visa application process which "rich Asians from poor Asian countries" have to go through, you will see that western countries are not luring these rich Asians at all (the rich Asians from poor Asian countries)

It does not matter if you are wealthy.What matters is where you are from.For example,if a wealthy Thai arrives at Heathrow.The first thing they will show at immigration/customs is what? their THAI passport.In otherwords their 'poor country' passport.The immigration offical has to do the right checks to make sure you really do have the money to live,travel and then eventually leave the UK.The 'poor' Japanese guy behind this Thai will not face the same delays because by the worlds standards he is exceptionally wealthy(even if by japanese standards he is poor) and the immigration offical will regonise this.

"Just pointing out that this "process" is now similar to what Farangs have to go through starting January in order to also "prove" that they are "legit" farangs and not the "non-legit" farangs."

The vast majority of Farang come from the worlds richest nations.The Thais have not got tougher to make sure that we have enough money.They already know we have enough money! What they want is the extra revenue ,imo.Generated by the purchase of visa's from embassies/consulates and maybe they also want less farang living inside Thailand.The latter is what riles many farang.They want our money but they don't want us...

So,no.Its not similar at all.Your original post is just rubbing salt in open wounds imo.

[sbk]

The vast majority of Farang come from the worlds richest nations.The Thais have not got tougher to make sure that we have enough money.They already know we have enough money! What they want is the extra revenue ,imo.Generated by the purchase of visa's from embassies/consulates and maybe they also want less farang living inside Thailand.

This is, IMHO, the most likely explanation for the entire thing. Not only does it generate revenue from visas but by forcing more foreigners to go legal, also generates additional tax revenue.

[CRUNCHER]

The vast majority of Farang come from the worlds richest nations.The Thais have not got tougher to make sure that we have enough money.They already know we have enough money! What they want is the extra revenue ,imo.Generated by the purchase of visa's from embassies/consulates and maybe they also want less farang living inside Thailand.

This is, IMHO, the most likely explanation for the entire thing. Not only does it generate revenue from visas but by forcing more foreigners to go legal, also generates additional tax revenue.

If extra revenue was the reason they could have got that by charging the 30 day "visa runners" baht 2000 (what they pay the visa run companies) to renew their visa exempt stay at the local immigration office. The government would have raked in a fortune. As for taxes, who can blame the government if that is part of the reason. Just about anywhere you go if you earn money the tax man wants his share.

[Francis Maube]

My humble contribution to this thread. I have been living away from from my home country for about 25 years, most of the time working which took me to about 40 different countries and a good number of them with my Thai wife so we had a good opportunity to compare the sort of treatment we were getting. Some countries are easier than others to get work permit, residency etc etc. One thing remain the same, in western countries, the process is simple and straight forward, you either qualify or not. My wife was given a 5 years residency in the UK when I was working there and I am not a UK citizen. Most country I worked in would qualify as developping countries and as a general rule, the least developped one were the most difficult to get visa and work permit. Middle eastern countries were particularly difficult but a few Asian countries were not very helpful either.

At the end of the day very few countries make life difficult for their own citizen's foreign spouse, LOS seems to be one of them.

[papakapbaan]

If extra revenue was the reason they could have got that by charging the 30 day "visa runners" baht 2000 (what they pay the visa run companies) to renew their visa exempt stay at the local immigration office.

Yes, quite clearly it's not just about money. Unfortunately, I'm tempted to add.

Money might be part of the equation (the equation of the" new rules") but they also VERY CLEARLY re-wrote every rule in a way that goes beyond financial considerations. Just for example: to make sure notions like Farang supporting Thais are not in the picture anymore .

Watch your steps! There is a POLITICAL/"IDEOLOGICAL" drive behind the new rules, it's very obvious.

[bangkokgas]

The vast majority of Farang come from the worlds richest nations.The Thais have not got tougher to make sure that we have enough money.They already know we have enough money! What they want is the extra revenue ,imo.Generated by the purchase of visa's from embassies/consulates and maybe they also want less farang living inside Thailand.

This is, IMHO, the most likely explanation for the entire thing. Not only does it generate revenue from visas but by forcing more foreigners to go legal, also generates additional tax revenue.

If extra revenue was the reason they could have got that by charging the 30 day "visa runners" baht 2000 (what they pay the visa run companies) to renew their visa exempt stay at the local immigration office. The government would have raked in a fortune. As for taxes, who can blame the government if that is part of the reason. Just about anywhere you go if you earn money the tax man wants his share.

The old cliche applies here. Only death and taxes are guaranteed, though my Dad says "only death and even more taxes apply!"

[maccaroni man]

i have now been on a 1 year visa for nearly a decade and I still need to check in every 90 days? I lived in Indo got the visa paid every year and renewed every 3 years much easier but no waiver for the children. I know one thing for sure no matter how long i live in thailand i will never have a political voice nor be able to facilitate a positive change whereas my thai brothers can go to my country and after the same amount of time not only feel like a part of my country but be a part of my country.

[Prakanong]

There is a very good reason why Thai people sometimes find it hard to get overseas visas.They tend to overstay a lot more than most nations.

While immigration can be very tough,they do have their reasons.

That's right. David, If you could get a visa to a first world country, you'd see that we got our undesirables over there too.

I am admittedly embarassed when I travel to the US (or even just Singapore!) where I see my fellow countrymen (i'm not Singaporean) acting uncivilized and giving me a bad name...

Sorry David, you were saying how "###### hard" it is to get a visa....?

btw, only YOU can give you a bad name. Be careful not to do that buddy.

He mentions Singapore - well he has probably not given himself a bad name but I bet he would find it hard getting a taxi in Beach Road of a Sunday Evening.

Its worse for Thai women travelling abroad - I know of colleagues travelling on business pulled into room with 20 other Thai girls for spot checks in certain Asian countries.

So others do give others a bad name unfortunatly.

[drummer]

At the end of the day very few countries make life difficult for their own citizen's foreign spouse, LOS seems to be one of them.

I wonder if Thailnd's de facto bygamy has anything to do with this attitude? i.e. Why is this so important when you probably have another wife or two back home?

Watch your steps! There is a POLITICAL/"IDEOLOGICAL" drive behind the new rules, it's very obvious.

While there were a number of reasons for my departure, this was a big one. I'm not going to wait around to see how bad things get, or if they merely remain uncomfortable. I don't need it.

Edited December 23, 2006 by drummer