UK government Brexit bill defeated again

[webfact]

Brexit: Government suffers second defeat in Lords

 

LONDON: -- The government has suffered a second Brexit defeat in the House of Lords as peers backed, by 366 votes to 268, calls for a "meaningful" parliamentary vote on the final terms of withdrawal.

 

Ministers said it was disappointing and they would seek to overturn the move when the bill returns to the Commons.

 

Lord Heseltine, one of 13 Tory peers to rebel, said he had been sacked as a government adviser on regional growth.

 

Full story: http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-39200658

 

-- © Copyright BBC 2017-03-08

[daveAustin]

Time to abolish the Lords. A bloated, anachronistic bunch of unelected snobs that have very little connection with ordinary people and the will of ordinary people.

[Laughing Gravy]

It really shows how out of touch these Lords are, who mostly are on the take from the EU. TM will overturn the Lords, get on with Brexit and I hope completely reform the House of Lords which is way overdue.

[Grouse]

Splendid!

 

The grown ups hit back on behalf of everyone by ensuring that parliament is sovereign NOT the Con Party.

 

Of course, numpties won't understand and won't be able to explain what, exactly, they disagree with! After all, the amendment only seeks to put into law TMs pre -existing undertaking ? 

Edited March 8, 2017 by Grouse

[webfact]

UK government vows to reverse parliament's changes to Brexit bill

 

LONDON (Reuters) - The British government will seek to overturn changes made by parliament's upper chamber on Tuesday to legislation that will give Prime Minister Theresa May the power to begin EU exit talks, Brexit minister David Davis said in a statement.

 

The House of Lords voted to give lawmakers more power to reject the final terms of the country's exit from the European Union, ignoring pleas from May's government not to hamstring their negotiations.

 

"It is clear that some in the Lords would seek to frustrate that process, and it is the Government's intention to ensure that does not happen. We will now aim to overturn these amendments in the House of Commons," Davis said.

 

(Reporting by William James; Editing by Robin Pomeroy)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2017-03-08

[Laughing Gravy]

It has nothing to do with trying to give parliament sovereignty or a say. It is exactly what the clown has said. He believes it is a fightback from the will of the people leaving the EU and the wrong decision leaving. That's his reasoning for this and he should be kicked out of the Lords like all the other traitors. a bunch of unelected, out of touch, self serving idiots.

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/03/07/lord-heseltine-sacked-government-adviser-rebelling-brexit/

 

"He told the Lords that he “deeply” regretted the outcome of last year’s EU referendum and that "the fightback starts here".

 

"He stated that quitting the European Union was the "most momentous peacetime decision of our time".

 

Mr. Heseltine (You don't deserve the title Lord) being conned into joining the EU was.

 

Edited March 8, 2017 by Laughing Gravy

[Grouse]

Yes, the Con Party hoist by their own petard!

 

Their nasty secret is that they really don't want a deal; they want to walk away! They want a low rent off shore economy that will be a boon to the few and awful for the majority!

[edandpranee]

I'm from the States so  I don't know a lot about how it works in England but the House of Lords sounds like our Democrat Party--out of touch with the whole of society and after their own self serving interests.

   

[oxo1947]

47 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Of course, numpties won't understand and won't be able to explain what, exactly, they disagree with!

This is the same arrogance that is being shown today--we the great unwashed are just too Numpty to understand these things, we should leave it all to higher individuals.

.

Grouse to (me anyway) this is not about "is it good to leave/Stay,"  its about an unelected group of people taking the stand to ignore.

 

1/ The vote of the people

2/ The vote of the peoples elected (MPs) to represent them.

 

I didn't vote because after not living there for over 50 years I didn't think I had a moral right to.

 

I don't want take away from this thread but-the set up of not only the Lords but of parliament numbers should really be looked at.

 

Britain -pop 65 (aprox) million                                   USA- pop 330 (aprox) million

MPs  650                                                                         Senators 100     (2 for each state)

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

House of Lords                                                             Congress  435  elected                                                        

800 unelected Members

and growing as each prime

minister pays back favours

 

https://www.google.co.th/search?q=how+many+people+in+the+senate+usa&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-b&gws_rd=cr&ei=2mG_WJakO4HpvATqmLzwBw#q=how+many+people+in+the+congress+usa&*

https://www.google.co.th/search?q=how+many+members+house+of+lords&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-b&gws_rd=cr&ei=gWW_WPPBK8L1vATRkqiwDQ

https://www.google.co.th/search?q=how+many+members+uk+parliment&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-b&gws_rd=cr&ei=2GW_WKKsFYTkvATvhb7ACA

 

Edited March 8, 2017 by oxo1947

[Grouse]

28 minutes ago, Laughing Gravy said:

It has nothing to do with trying to give parliament sovereignty or a say. It is exactly what the clown has said. He believes it is a fightback from the will of the people leaving the EU and the wrong decision leaving. That's his reasoning for this and he should be kicked out of the Lords like all the other traitors. a bunch of unelected, out of touch, self serving idiots.

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/03/07/lord-heseltine-sacked-government-adviser-rebelling-brexit/

 

"He told the Lords that he “deeply” regretted the outcome of last year’s EU referendum and that "the fightback starts here".

 

"He stated that quitting the European Union was the "most momentous peacetime decision of our time".

 

Mr. Heseltine (You don't deserve the title Lord) being conned into joining the EU was.

 

The last para defeats me! What on earth does it mean?

[Laughing Gravy]

2 minutes ago, Grouse said:

The last para defeats me! What on earth does it mean?

Two quotes from Heseltine in the article and I am saying the quote from Heseltine of "most momentous peacetime decision of our time". was the UK, being conned into joining the EU. Get it!

 

[Grouse]

3 minutes ago, oxo1947 said:

This is the same arrogance that is being shown today--we the great unwashed are just too Numpty to understand these things, we should leave it all to higher individuals.

.

Grouse to (me anyway) this is not about "is it good to leave/Stay,"  its about an unelected group of people taking the stand to ignore.

 

1/ The vote of the people

2/ The vote of the peoples elected (MPs) to represent them.

 

I didn't vote because after not living there for over 50 years I didn't think I had a moral right to.

 

I don't want take away from this thread but-the set up of not only the Lords but of parliament numbers should really be looked at.

 

Britain -pop 65 (aprox) million                                   USA- pop 330 (aprox) million

MPs  650                                                                         Senators 100     (2 for each state)

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

House of Lords                                                             Congress  435  elected                                                        

800 unelected Members

and growing as each prime

minister pays back favours

 

https://www.google.co.th/search?q=how+many+people+in+the+senate+usa&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-b&gws_rd=cr&ei=2mG_WJakO4HpvATqmLzwBw#q=how+many+people+in+the+congress+usa&*

https://www.google.co.th/search?q=how+many+members+house+of+lords&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-b&gws_rd=cr&ei=gWW_WPPBK8L1vATRkqiwDQ

https://www.google.co.th/search?q=how+many+members+uk+parliment&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-b&gws_rd=cr&ei=2GW_WKKsFYTkvATvhb7ACA

 

There are too many Lords I agree. Get rid of the bishops for a start.

 

Apart from that, what are you complaining about. They only wish to bring TM's undertaking into law!

 

Enlighten me! What is your gripe? ?

[Laughing Gravy]

Did you not read Heseltine's in the article and in all other papers. It is about fightback for him as he stated. he is appalled that people voted to leave the EU. That is my gripe. Nothing to do with undertaking the prime minister into the law. Blatant treachery and trying to overturn the peoples will. I thought even you would see that.

[SOUTHERNSTAR]

The British empire was build on a tactic called divide and rule. What's happening now is that the EU and its British supporters are dividing GB to enable the EU to rule GB. Ironic.

[Srikcir]

4 hours ago, daveAustin said:

Time to abolish the Lords.

More pointedly maybe it's time to change the whole system of government, ie., from a parliamentary system to a republic presidential system.

[Grouse]

1 hour ago, Laughing Gravy said:

Two quotes from Heseltine in the article and I am saying the quote from Heseltine of "most momentous peacetime decision of our time". was the UK, being conned into joining the EU. Get it!

 

Ah! I see.

 

So you have nothing against the amendment, you are just complaining about Hezza?

[maingmoom]

1 hour ago, edandpranee said:

I'm from the States so  I don't know a lot about how it works in England but the House of Lords sounds like our Democrat Party--out of touch with the whole of society and after their own self serving interests.

   

Your absolutly right

[kamahele]

1 hour ago, edandpranee said:

I'm from the States so  I don't know a lot about how it works in England but the House of Lords sounds like our Democrat Party--out of touch with the whole of society and after their own self serving interests.

   

I'm from the states also and did attend school. Our representatives in the Democratic party are elected by the voters so they represent the beliefs, wants and needs of the people that elected them, unlike the representatives in the House of Lords who are appointed to / or have inherited their position. 

Edited March 8, 2017 by kamahele

[Grouse]

1) The Con Party are strangely gleeful and united about Brexit when before a majority were pro remain. Why?

 

2) The Con Party are strangely reluctant to protect the rights of EU citizens living in the UK because they fear it might not be reciprocated. Why?

 

3) The Con Party do not wish parliament to have the final say. Why?

 

It's because they intend to undermine the EU and European social democracy by turning the U.K. Into a low cost, low tax, low service off shore economy.

 

This will be terrible for most U.K. Citizens but great for companies and shareholders. They want to attract manufacturing by offering very low corporation tax. 

 

What will that do for UK health and education and society generally? Increased inequality, reduced health care, poorer education.

 

There will be a two tier school system for the masses: grammar schools and crap schools. 

 

This is NOT the kind of UK I want ?

[Grouse]

4 minutes ago, maingmoom said:

Your absolutly right

About what? The only thing he's right about is not understanding British parliamentary democracy ?

[Grouse]

3 minutes ago, kamahele said:

I'm from the states also and did attend school. Our representatives in the Democratic party are elected by the voters so they represent the beliefs, wants and needs of the people that elected them, unlike the representatives in the House of Lords who are appointed. 

The House of Lords are a bit like your senate (but more difficult to bribe)

[Laughing Gravy]

13 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Ah! I see.

 

So you have nothing against the amendment, you are just complaining about Hezza?

I am against those trying to stop the referendum result and those who think they are smartly trying to amend what should have been done already. So that includes those that have voted against the will of the people and the current government who are trying to do the best job possible whilst having to deal with a bunch of out of touch idiots who have been living lavishly off the EU.

 

I have never voted for the Conservatives but if it was a choice between the absolute disgraceful Labour and Jeremy C, Tim F, who for me is as bad as Corbyn, then it would seem I would have to break a very long tradition. It isn't about conservatives, Labour and Lib Dems anymore. It is about doing the best thing for the UK without having the EU stranglehold around her. Once this is all over, I look forward to the Lords and those MP's who are obviously out of touch with people outside of London, getting reformed. Due to Farron and Corbyn, I foresee a general election this year. Who do you think will win!

[gamini]

26 minutes ago, Laughing Gravy said:

I am against those trying to stop the referendum result and those who think they are smartly trying to amend what should have been done already. So that includes those that have voted against the will of the people and the current government who are trying to do the best job possible whilst having to deal with a bunch of out of touch idiots who have been living lavishly off the EU.

 

I have never voted for the Conservatives but if it was a choice between the absolute disgraceful Labour and Jeremy C, Tim F, who for me is as bad as Corbyn, then it would seem I would have to break a very long tradition. It isn't about conservatives, Labour and Lib Dems anymore. It is about doing the best thing for the UK without having the EU stranglehold around her. Once this is all over, I look forward to the Lords and those MP's who are obviously out of touch with people outside of London, getting reformed. Due to Farron and Corbyn, I foresee a general election this year. Who do you think will win!

You Brexits always harp on about the will of the people. 48% voted against leaving. How about them? And it is generally accepted that if there was another referendum the vote  would go against leaving. because a lot of people did not understand fully what it entailed and were conned into voting to leave.

[rixalex]

11 minutes ago, gamini said:

You Brexits always harp on about the will of the people. 48% voted against leaving. How about them? And it is generally accepted that if there was another referendum the vote  would go against leaving. because a lot of people did not understand fully what it entailed and were conned into voting to leave.

"Generally accepted" by whom? The remainers?

[stag4]

HOL trying to frustrate the will of the British people.

Like turkeys voting for an early Xmas.

 If you want parliament to debate reforming them.

 

Google

sign the petition to replace the unelected House of Lords with a publicly elected body

 

 

 

Replace the unelected House of Lords with a publicly elected body:

(116,269 Signatures):

 

Replace the unelected House of Lords with a publicly elected body:

(116,269 Signatures):

 

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/170686

 

 

[Laughing Gravy]

22 minutes ago, gamini said:

And it is generally accepted that if there was another referendum the vote  would go against leaving. because a lot of people did not understand fully what it entailed and were conned into voting to leave.

That rhetoric is insulting. people knew what they voted for like I assume you did if you voted. Saying that people didn't know what they were voting for on either side is an insult. Everyone knew. It is sad that some of those who voted remain have to say ridiculous things like people were conned. Seems you have forgot.

 

[maingmoom]

1 hour ago, Grouse said:

1) The Con Party are strangely gleeful and united about Brexit when before a majority were pro remain. Why?

 

2) The Con Party are strangely reluctant to protect the rights of EU citizens living in the UK because they fear it might not be reciprocated. Why?

 

3) The Con Party do not wish parliament to have the final say. Why?

 

It's because they intend to undermine the EU and European social democracy by turning the U.K. Into a low cost, low tax, low service off shore economy.

 

This will be terrible for most U.K. Citizens but great for companies and shareholders. They want to attract manufacturing by offering very low corporation tax. 

 

What will that do for UK health and education and society generally? Increased inequality, reduced health care, poorer education.

 

There will be a two tier school system for the masses: grammar schools and crap schools. 

 

This is NOT the kind of UK I want ?

Not the kind of UK you want but face up to the fact that you lost the vote

[RuamRudy]

20 minutes ago, Laughing Gravy said:

That rhetoric is insulting. people knew what they voted for like I assume you did if you voted. Saying that people didn't know what they were voting for on either side is an insult. Everyone knew. It is sad that some of those who voted remain have to say ridiculous things like people were conned. Seems you have forgot.

 

Is this true then? Can the NHS look forward to the chief Brexiters promise coming to pass?

 

[Laughing Gravy]

8 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

Is this true then? Can the NHS look forward to the chief Brexiters promise coming to pass?

 

Not that old chestnut. Please. This has been killed to death and is now quite boring.  Look at the slogan it is lets not we will. Stop sending the EU 350 million pound, I agree.

I will not go down the same path as some and insult you by saying you didn't know what you voted for.

[rixalex]

3 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

Is this true then? Can the NHS look forward to the chief Brexiters promise coming to pass?

 

 

Show me a person who voted to leave because they believed the NHS would get better funding, and i'll show you a person who voted to remain because they feared the effects of the emergency budget they were promised.

 

Plenty of examples of misleading information from both camps.