Fuel Filter

[JN45]

 

Hi, 

 

Hoping someone out there can help please !

 

I am having an issue with Ford. My Ranger 3.2 broke down recently, there were 4 loud cracks and then the engine died and wouldn't start again.

 

It turns out that 2 injectors are broken, plus the fuel pump and fuel filter to the tune of 90 000 Baht.

 

Ford claim that dirt, from dirty fuel, had got through the filter and into the system causing the damage.  They say that the filter became so full of dirt that some passed though into the system.

 

The truck was serviced on time every time.

 

My question is this, is it possible for dirt to pass through a fuel filter that was not used beyond it's expected lifespan ??

 

My argument is surely that if the filter is there to stop dirt and even if it gets too full then fuel pressure drops and the engine would simply stop running well.  Also there was no fuel filter warning light.

 

Any ideas or suggestions would be very welcome as i am not too keen on the 90 000 Baht bill !

 

Thanks.

[Daffy D]

Never heard of that.

 

If there is so much dirt to clog the filter it would do just that, clog up and stop all flow of fuel, which is after all the whole point of having a filter.

 

Also I don't see how dirt can break an injector, a dirty injector would just stop working.

 

Have you had a filter replacement recently or work done on the injectors and the fuel lines between the filter and engine?

 

Sound like the problem is more than just dirt in the fuel.

 

 

[JoeW]

Actually it is possible that even when the filter is so clogged, fuel might go through with dirt particles and affect the carburetor and/or injectors. 

I can't remember correctly, but I think Ford changes the fuel filter every 30,000 kms? If you serviced with Ford, show them your records that the fuel filter was changed according to their service plan and get ready for a fight (discussion).

 

Now, the cost for 2 injectors, fuel pump and fuel filter should not be 90,000 baht of course.

I'm giving you the cost for a Volkswagen Passat B5 as a reference so you know 90,000 baht for a Thai-made vehicle is too much.

 

2 Injectors: 3,500 baht / piece x 2 = 7,000 baht

Fuel pump: 2,800 baht x 1 = 2,800 baht

Fuel filter: 400 baht x 1 = 400 baht

 

Total cost: 10,200 baht (incl Vat). These are the prices which we sold parts for to our customer. The buy-in price for us is 30% of 10,200 baht.

 

I'm not sure how old your vehicle is, but it might be worth bringing it to a garage which is not Ford. There are plenty good workshops in Bangkok. 

[Kwasaki]

l would take up the issue with Ford head office and see where that goes,  failing that because l take it, it's out of warranty get it to another car repair outlet.

[transam]

Does your dash board "not" have a clogged/change fuel filter warning light...?

Edited March 9, 2017 by transam

[canthai55]

Wonder if by 'dirty fuel' they mean contaminated ?  Most likely culprit would be water. Big No-No in diesel injection systems. When it is repaired, install a Racor before the factory fuel filter. Will remove water, some have a warning light when water detected. Save the factory filter for stage 2 filtration duties. World Leader.

http://www.parker.com/portal/site/PARKER/menuitem.223a4a3cce02eb6315731910237ad1ca/?vgnextoid=0f439bd01975e210VgnVCM10000048021dacRCRD&vgnextfmt=EN

[Ace of Pop]

2 hours ago, transam said:

Does your dash board "not" have a clogged/change fuel filter warning light...?

The Dasboard isnt Cloged i bet.

[transam]

My 10 year old Vigo has a dash light that tells you if anything is wrong with the fuel system, if water is detected in the filter/ water  trap assembly the light flashes, if the filter is clogged with crap it stays on. I would assume a newish Ford ride would have a similar warning system. If it has and never warned the OP I question their reasoning to the fault.

[MINIMIGLIA]

This is just typical rip off Ford.

[JN45]

19 hours ago, Daffy D said:

Never heard of that.

 

If there is so much dirt to clog the filter it would do just that, clog up and stop all flow of fuel, which is after all the whole point of having a filter.

 

Also I don't see how dirt can break an injector, a dirty injector would just stop working.

 

Have you had a filter replacement recently or work done on the injectors and the fuel lines between the filter and engine?

 

Sound like the problem is more than just dirt in the fuel.

 

 

 

Hi Daffy.

 

Not had anything done other than standard service when required.

 

Thanks for the reply.

[JN45]

7 hours ago, JoeW said:

Actually it is possible that even when the filter is so clogged, fuel might go through with dirt particles and affect the carburetor and/or injectors. 

I can't remember correctly, but I think Ford changes the fuel filter every 30,000 kms? If you serviced with Ford, show them your records that the fuel filter was changed according to their service plan and get ready for a fight (discussion).

 

Now, the cost for 2 injectors, fuel pump and fuel filter should not be 90,000 baht of course.

I'm giving you the cost for a Volkswagen Passat B5 as a reference so you know 90,000 baht for a Thai-made vehicle is too much.

 

2 Injectors: 3,500 baht / piece x 2 = 7,000 baht

Fuel pump: 2,800 baht x 1 = 2,800 baht

Fuel filter: 400 baht x 1 = 400 baht

 

Total cost: 10,200 baht (incl Vat). These are the prices which we sold parts for to our customer. The buy-in price for us is 30% of 10,200 baht.

 

I'm not sure how old your vehicle is, but it might be worth bringing it to a garage which is not Ford. There are plenty good workshops in Bangkok. 

 

Hi Joe,

 

Very interesting price info. that is going to come in handy.

 

Truck is 5 years old and been serviced on schedule every time.

 

Thanks for the reply.

 

[JN45]

5 hours ago, transam said:

Does your dash board "not" have a clogged/change fuel filter warning light...?

 

Hi Transam,

 

This is one of the main points i am going back to them with shortly, it did not show.

 

Thanks for the reply.

Edited March 9, 2017 by JN45

[JN45]

4 hours ago, canthai55 said:

Wonder if by 'dirty fuel' they mean contaminated ?  Most likely culprit would be water. Big No-No in diesel injection systems. When it is repaired, install a Racor before the factory fuel filter. Will remove water, some have a warning light when water detected. Save the factory filter for stage 2 filtration duties. World Leader.

http://www.parker.com/portal/site/PARKER/menuitem.223a4a3cce02eb6315731910237ad1ca/?vgnextoid=0f439bd01975e210VgnVCM10000048021dacRCRD&vgnextfmt=EN

 

Hi Canthai,

 

Water contamination has been ruled out, just normal dirt apparently.

 

Will look at that Racor.

 

Thanks for the reply.

[JN45]

23 minutes ago, MINIMIGLIA said:

This is just typical rip off Ford.

 

Hi Minimiglia,

 

Just had a call yesterday, now i have to fix the aircon at 6 000 Baht.  

 

There was definitely no problem with this before the truck went to Ford.

 

I tried to explain logically that i would have told them before if the aircon had an issue and to fix whilst fixing the fuel system as i wouldn't want to drive to Phuket town again and rejoin the queue...that fell on deaf ears.

 

Thanks for the reply.

[transam]

Matey, you are being  'taken"...............If the ride is drivable GET IT OUT......

[JN45]

2 minutes ago, transam said:

Matey, you are being  'taken"...............If the ride is drivable GET IT OUT......

 

Unfortunately the engine was completely dead and the truck couldn't be driven elsewhere for 2nd opinions etc.

 

Had to give them the go ahead as need this truck to haul our kit for work and wanted it quickly...they have had it 2 months.

 

Thing is who can you turn to when this kind of thing happens ?  Called Ford HO in Bkk in the US and was told speak to the dealer. 

[transam]

1 minute ago, JN45 said:

 

Unfortunately the engine was completely dead and the truck couldn't be driven elsewhere for 2nd opinions etc.

 

Had to give them the go ahead as need this truck to haul our kit for work and wanted it quickly...they have had it 2 months.

 

Thing is who can you turn to when this kind of thing happens ?  Called Ford HO in Bkk in the US and was told speak to the dealer. 

Tell them not to fix the A/C as it WAS OK......

[JN45]

7 minutes ago, transam said:

Tell them not to fix the A/C as it WAS OK......

 

It's making a loud noise now ( since they had it ) so needs fixed.  Although since i called the manager at Ford yesterday they have changed from replacing the aircon to now fixing instead.

 

I am getting rinsed at this stage but there will be a reckoning when it comes to bill time.

[transam]

3 minutes ago, JN45 said:

 

It's making a loud noise now ( since they had it ) so needs fixed.  Although since i called the manager at Ford yesterday they have changed from replacing the aircon to now fixing instead.

 

I am getting rinsed at this stage but there will be a reckoning when it comes to bill time.

Toyota next time...

[Martyjustice]

More likely like said in early post that it was disel in the gas. Had the same thing happen to a Dodge in the US. Same injectors and pump problems. Went back to the station where got gas, they fessed up and paid the repairs. That was Texas though, good luck trying that in LOS.


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[JN45]

47 minutes ago, Martyjustice said:

More likely like said in early post that it was disel in the gas. Had the same thing happen to a Dodge in the US. Same injectors and pump problems. Went back to the station where got gas, they fessed up and paid the repairs. That was Texas though, good luck trying that in LOS.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

Hi Marty,

 

Sorry, did you mean diesel in the gas ? The truck has a diesel engine.

 

Thanks for the reply.

[1BADDAT]

@JN45

 

I am here at my desk at work in USA and actually work for Racor and used to work at the Racor plant not to far from where your truck was made.  Before that I used to work for a diesel engine manufacturer that supplies to Ford in the states as well. 

 

Modern diesel engines are highly sensitive to both water and dirt.  Most systems have a sensor to tell you when the water needs to be drained and if the filter is too clogged it will indicate low fuel pressure.  I do not know the exact configuration of the 3.2 Ranger engine but it should be very similar or will tell you the change interval for each.  If you have followed the proper maintenance and used approved OEM filters, you should have no issues.  Therefore the blame should be on Ford or ultimately the filter manufacturer. 

 

It sounds to me that your filter had a bypass which would indicate a faulty filter.  It could have loaded with enough dirt that the pressure caused it to rupture.  It could have also had a bypass from the day it was manufactured for whatever reason.  Ford would have to send the entire fuel filter module back to the manufacturer to verify this.  There is no way a technician at the dealer would be able to make that determination.

 

Having said that, if the filter did bypass it could easily damage the fuel pump and then damage the injectors.  If you are going to replace the injectors then replace all 4.  The other ones are probably just going to need replacing in the near future.

[Don Mega]

13 hours ago, MINIMIGLIA said:

This is just typical rip off Ford.

 

 

Care to elaborate on what the rip of is.

 

Price of injectors = ??

Price of pump = ??

Price of filter = ??

Labor Total = ??

Edited March 9, 2017 by Don Mega

[Martyjustice]

JN45. Yes it was a gas engine. I've always hear gas in a Diesel engine equals "boom". But have no experience there. The post above seems to have the answer (1baddat's).


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[Gary A]

Anyway you look at it, if the truck was still under warranty, Ford should be liable for any serious problems. A 90,000 baht repair is indeed a serious problem. If the fuel filter was at fault, the engine should have shut down before it was damaged.

[Pomthai]

JN45 - first do some research over on the New Ranger forum http://newranger.net/forums/ there is heaps of info over there regards fuel system issues.

 

Also if the engine doesn't run, how did they test the AC? Someones lying. A running engine is a requirement for AC operation. If the engine is not running, the only thing that can operate is the cabin fan, and if it is making weird noises, its most likely got some leaves stuck in it. The fan is easily removed from the passenger foot well under the glove box.

 

These engines are susceptible to dirty fuel, the piezo injectors commonly get stuck open or closed due to contamination. However, regular service should eliminate this therefore its down to Ford.

 

The poster giving prices earlier and comparing it to a Passat I'm afraid is off the mark - the pump ford will be referring to is the high pressure common rail injection pump - no way that'd be replacable for anywhere close to 2,800 baht.

 

Problem sounds to me like water in the fuel which can't be filtered out if there's largish amounts by the OEM filter and water would explain the damage to the high pressure pump and injectors. I'd take a sample of the bottom of your tank, and be talking to insurance and the last gas station you filled up at if you have no joy from Ford.

 

Good luck.

[MINIMIGLIA]

5 hours ago, Don Mega said:

 

 

Care to elaborate on what the rip of is.

 

Price of injectors = ??

Price of pump = ??

Price of filter = ??

Labor Total = ??

Just price absolutely a complete rip off like all Ford here, and they rarely have a clue what the problem is,just replace every thing until it works again, absolutely useless.

[JoeW]

12 minutes ago, Pomthai said:

JN45 - first do some research over on the New Ranger forum http://newranger.net/forums/ there is heaps of info over there regards fuel system issues.

 

Also if the engine doesn't run, how did they test the AC? Someones lying. A running engine is a requirement for AC operation. If the engine is not running, the only thing that can operate is the cabin fan, and if it is making weird noises, its most likely got some leaves stuck in it. The fan is easily removed from the passenger foot well under the glove box.

 

These engines are susceptible to dirty fuel, the piezo injectors commonly get stuck open or closed due to contamination. However, regular service should eliminate this therefore its down to Ford.

 

The poster giving prices earlier and comparing it to a Passat I'm afraid is off the mark - the pump ford will be referring to is the high pressure common rail injection pump - no way that'd be replacable for anywhere close to 2,800 baht.

 

Problem sounds to me like water in the fuel which can't be filtered out if there's largish amounts by the OEM filter and water would explain the damage to the high pressure pump and injectors. I'd take a sample of the bottom of your tank, and be talking to insurance and the last gas station you filled up at if you have no joy from Ford.

 

Good luck.

 

Ford Ranger 3.2 Fuel Pump

- buy-in price: 1,900 baht

- sales price: up to the shop

 

Price from our system.

[Don Mega]

13 minutes ago, JoeW said:

 

Ford Ranger 3.2 Fuel Pump

- buy-in price: 1,900 baht

- sales price: up to the shop

 

Price from our system.

Errrr, that would be the in-tank pump, the high pressure pump on the engine is about 35,000 baht

Edited March 10, 2017 by Don Mega

[Don Mega]

16 minutes ago, MINIMIGLIA said:

Just price absolutely a complete rip off like all Ford here, and they rarely have a clue what the problem is,just replace every thing until it works again, absolutely useless.

Oh ok it is a rip off because you say it is without offering any proof.