European cities scramble to stop Turkish referendum rallies

[rooster59]

European cities scramble to stop Turkish referendum rallies

By Thomas Escritt and Shadia Nasralla

 

Turkish Foreign Minister Mevlut Cavusoglu at the International Tourism Trade Fair ITB in Berlin, Germany, March 8, 2017. REUTERS/Fabrizio Bensch

 

ROTTERDAM/VIENNA (Reuters) - Turkish Foreign Minister Mevlut Cavusoglu will not be allowed to campaign for votes among expat Turks during a visit to Rotterdam on Saturday, the mayor of the Dutch port said, joining a growing list of European cities that have blocked such rallies.

"He has diplomatic immunity and everything so we will treat him with respect, but we have other instruments to prohibit things happening in public spaces," Mayor Ahmed Aboutaleb told reporters.

Four planned Turkish political meetings in Austria and one in Switzerland were also cancelled, in the latest signs of unease across Europe over Turkey's efforts to rally support for President Tayyip Erdogan in the run-up to an April 16 referendum on granting him extensive new powers.

Relations between Turkey and the European Union have deteriorated in recent months, with Erdogan bristling at criticism from EU members for waging a mass crackdown on opponents since he saw off a coup attempt last July.

The row over campaigning among the large Turkish communities in Europe has exacerbated tensions. Erdogan has compared the cancellation of rallies in Germany with Nazi-era fascist tactics; Chancellor Angela Merkel said on Thursday that such comments were 'unworthy' and must stop.

Having survived the July coup, Erdogan says the referendum is needed to guarantee stability. European politicians accuse him of using the failed putsch as a pretext for mass arrests and dismissals that stifle dissent.

The proposed constitutional changes to greatly strengthen his powers would be a "dangerous step backwards" for democracy, a panel of legal experts at the Council of Europe said on Friday.

It said the amendments would give the president "the power to dissolve parliament on any grounds whatsoever, which is fundamentally alien to democratic presidential systems".

The legal opinion has no binding power over Turkey, which joined the 47-nation Council of Europe in 1950.

SECURITY RISKS

Swiss police cited "significant security risks" for their decision to cancel a speech by a Turkish politician on Friday evening.

Foreign Minister Cavusoglu is still looking for a new venue for an event on Sunday after one hotel near Zurich pulled out on security grounds and an alternative, in the city of Winterthur, was rejected as inappropriate.

A call by Zurich's security chief for Cavusoglu to be barred from speaking there has been rejected by the Swiss government.

The Austrian town of Hoerbranz cancelled an event with a former Turkish minister because the organisers had falsely labelled it as a book presentation. Other events were scrapped in Linz, Herzogenburg and Wiener Neustadt.

Austria's interior minister said on Tuesday he wanted to change the law to permit a ban on foreign officials making speeches in the country if human rights or public order are threatened, but the bill has not reached parliament yet.

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2017-03-11

[the guest]

Be careful what you say to Turkey, they could at any time open the floodgates to Europe with even more immigrants

[jollyhangmon]

Good!

 

^ Well, then hit 'em with some friendly reminding sanctions if they don't comply (or threaten not to), for sure they took the fat money already!
Just start to really 'check' all their trucks coming into EU for once - wouldn't even have to find any contraband (highly unlikely scenario btw.) and still they'd start to crumble when it all comes to a halt the 3rd day ...
As in: you call us Nazis, we practically ground your fleet of moving rust-heaps until further notice if need be - all in full compliance with the law of course.

 

Sultan goatlover needs to be shown his place emphatically once again, that much is for sure. 

[Saradoc1972]

5 hours ago, jollyhangmon said:

Good!

 

^ Well, then hit 'em with some friendly reminding sanctions if they don't comply (or threaten not to), for sure they took the fat money already!
Just start to really 'check' all their trucks coming into EU for once - wouldn't even have to find any contraband (highly unlikely scenario btw.) and still they'd start to crumble when it all comes to a halt the 3rd day ...
As in: you call us Nazis, we practically ground your fleet of moving rust-heaps until further notice if need be - all in full compliance with the law of course.

Difficult. Need agreement of all other NATO-states to impose sanctions against a member. But has been done, and against Turkey, back in 1992, if memory serves. Let's see what comes out of Merkel's visit to Trump this week.

[Saradoc1972]

6 hours ago, the guest said:

Be careful what you say to Turkey, they could at any time open the floodgates to Europe with even more immigrants

You're overestimating that option. They've threatened with that at least one too many times, Turkish economy is down on its knees to the point that they've actually started pleading with Germany for some fresh money. Lots of fences in place now, the southern states (forget Greece) have mustered some resolve on the issue, plus Germany, Netherlands and Austria are in election mode right now with the (more-or-less) far-right breathing down the established parties' necks, the UK, Sweden, and France have basically shut down. No repetition of 2015 in sight.

 

And the EU would be rather unforgiving for a loooong time, if it came to that. Megalomaniac airport near Ankara would be for naught, new "silk-road" with China would lead nowhere without a big accessible market on the Turkish side, only so much options with Russia with a rather shaky entente so far. Germany and Austria, for example, could get what they import from Turkey, like textiles or automotive parts, from scores of different sources, the machinery, parts, tools, tourism, remittances and investments from Germany and Austria now... 

[jollyhangmon]

2 hours ago, Saradoc1972 said:

Difficult. Need agreement of all other NATO-states to impose sanctions against a member. But has been done, and against Turkey, back in 1992, if memory serves. Let's see what comes out of Merkel's visit to Trump this week.

Yeah, know what you mean & should have said 'sanctions'.

I've repeatedly seen how much goods-traffic sums up especially at Kapitan Andrewo Kapikule (Turkey/Bulgaria) which used to be the main entry point into the EU from Turkey+Syria+Iran etc. at least some 15 years ago (don't think anything has changed there).

What i meant: Start to really check all lorries and they'll pile up back across all of Turkey, just 'proper law enforcement', not sanctions.

 

But you're right, even if you forget that shady refugee-deal there's still Incirlik airbase which is of importance not only for DE but mainly for the USofA, so yes, let's see ... 

 

Netherlands have just become the next ones being called 'fascists' by the goat-kisser ... 

[ddavidovsky]

There are so many Turks living in these countries that the Turkish Foreign Minister goes there to campaign? Good grief.

[jollyhangmon]

28 minutes ago, ddavidovsky said:

There are so many Turks living in these countries that the Turkish Foreign Minister goes there to campaign? Good grief.

Well, i believe Berlin was - at least for some time but probably still is - considered to be the city with second largest Turkish population after Ankara! EU's Mechico, sort of ;-) 

 

Was/is basically ok and was long before that slight Syria-problem, nothing to do with current refugees of course ... 

Edited March 11, 2017 by jollyhangmon

[jollyhangmon]

3 hours ago, Saradoc1972 said:

You're overestimating that option. They've threatened with that at least one too many times, Turkish economy is down on its knees to the point that they've actually started pleading with Germany for some fresh money. Lots of fences in place now, the southern states (forget Greece) have mustered some resolve on the issue, plus Germany, Netherlands and Austria are in election mode right now with the (more-or-less) far-right breathing down the established parties' necks, the UK, Sweden, and France have basically shut down. No repetition of 2015 in sight.

 

And the EU would be rather unforgiving for a loooong time, if it came to that. Megalomaniac airport near Ankara would be for naught, new "silk-road" with China would lead nowhere without a big accessible market on the Turkish side, only so much options with Russia with a rather shaky entente so far. Germany and Austria, for example, could get what they import from Turkey, like textiles or automotive parts, from scores of different sources, the machinery, parts, tools, tourism, remittances and investments from Germany and Austria now... 

... very well put, sir!

[heroKK]

10 hours ago, the guest said:

Be careful what you say to Turkey, they could at any time open the floodgates to Europe with even more immigrants

I wish if that things happen so we can rid of the EU as fast as possible.

[Saradoc1972]

1 minute ago, heroKK said:

I wish if that things happen so we can rid of the EU as fast as possible.

Be careful what you're wishing for.

 

Voting to quit the EU was both the only reasonable thing Britain could have done and the dumbest idea ever, at the same time.

Let's hope, for everyone involved, that things are going to fall into place with possibly a new referendum in Britain after a new, amicable, and reasonable deal has been struck between all nations involved, regulating immigration, remittances, child and housing benefits, asylum, corporate taxes, and certainly no Euro-currency. Really the best option for everyone involved, even with Bulgaria and Rumania having come into the fray at least 5 years too early.

[heroKK]

11 hours ago, Saradoc1972 said:

d, even with Bulgaria and Rumania having come into the fray at least 5 years too early.

I witnessed an experiment that was done in Portugal and Spain, where small-mid sized entrepreneurs and local authorities were trying to lure businesses and investments by all possible means. They reformed the labor laws to be the most attractive levels, offered attractive tax incentives and cuts, legalized all sort of entertainments etc... and the committee had one conclusion jobs cant be brought back because of the Euro, yes the Euro is blocking all progress,  without it, the local currency would depreciate until it will reach attractive threshold, right now those southern Mediterranean nations that rely on tourism revenue can't be competitive because they don't have overall control over their currency which theoretically pegged to the German Euro.

 

The EU was establishment for the benefits of Germany and Austria period. Big multinationals and large corp loves the EU because they could introduce draconian regulations via their powerful lobby groups to kill all sort of smaller competitions, all the stats proves this, since its creation very few startups became successful or went public, with the exception of Germany it has the lowest growth rates among all industrial nations and the periphery states(Greece, Ireland, Italy ...) are plunged into deeper debts.

 

Edited March 12, 2017 by heroKK

[Saradoc1972]

5 hours ago, heroKK said:

I witnessed an experiment that was done in Portugal and Spain, where small-mid sized entrepreneurs and local authorities were trying to lure businesses and investments by all possible means. They reformed the labor laws to be the most attractive levels, offered attractive tax incentives and cuts, legalized all sort of entertainments etc... and the committee had one conclusion jobs cant be brought back because of the Euro, yes the Euro is blocking all progress,  without it, the local currency would depreciate until it will reach attractive threshold, right now those southern Mediterranean nations that rely on tourism revenue can't be competitive because they don't have overall control over their currency which theoretically pegged to the German Euro.

 

The EU was establishment for the benefits of Germany and Austria period. Big multinationals and large corp loves the EU because they could introduce draconian regulations via their powerful lobby groups to kill all sort of smaller competitions, all the stats proves this, since its creation very few startups became successful or went public, with the exception of Germany it has the lowest growth rates among all industrial nations and the periphery states(Greece, Ireland, Italy ...) are plunged into deeper debts.

 

The EU was established as an economic project, more importantly a project for lasting peace, mostly between Germany and France, additional founding members were Italy and the Benelux states. It was a huge success, growing to what it is now with 28 member states, the east and south European states *had* to be included to facilitate economic growth there, we would have been seeing the same refugee crisis from there mid of the nineties hadn't we done that, and bind them politically to the west. Russia can't go and isolate or pressurize individual states economically, for example. Helmut Kohl, when German chancellor from 1982-1998, bent over backward to further the EU and keep everyone aboard, and he treater especially the small states with utmost respect so nobody was feeling dragged around by the nose.

 

Things derailed only with the introduction of the Euro. That was one of the things France demanded from Germany 1989 in return for the re-unification of Germany. Idea was apparently to bind a stronger Germany so strongly to the EU to make it impossible to break lose or turn against France. Bit of a history there. Kohl, in his last year in office, had his doubts about the Euro, especially about Greece, but decided, it was up the French to bring it up and postpone the project, for the reasons above, but they did not. 

 

The problem is not the EU, it's the southern states, Spain, Italy, Greece, and Portugal, the "Club Med", not being able to cope with the Euro, both economically and culturally/politically. Look to Ireland, they could, with a little hickup. That was aggravated by Germany, that round 2000 was a bit of "the sick man of Europe" introducing austerity measures, mostly welfare-cuts ("Hartz4", named after one workers' representative at Volkswagen, Peter Hartz), which were necessary, but badly implemented and went a bit over the top. Under a Labour Government, SPD, mind you. That way German economy picked up the way it did, but the germany defended it's role as top exporter now, too, with a view to worklessness, because the poor states were stuck in the Euro and could not devalue their currencies to counter that effect. 

[overherebc]

21 hours ago, ddavidovsky said:

There are so many Turks living in these countries that the Turkish Foreign Minister goes there to campaign? Good grief.

My time in Germany 70's many of the road workers, garbage collectors, road sweepers were Turkish. I can see many of their kids were born and grew up there.

[Saradoc1972]

 

On 3/12/2017 at 0:04 AM, ddavidovsky said:

There are so many Turks living in these countries that the Turkish Foreign Minister goes there to campaign? Good grief.

2 hours ago, overherebc said:

My time in Germany 70's many of the road workers, garbage collectors, road sweepers were Turkish. I can see many of their kids were born and grew up there.

There are strong Turkish/Kurdish minorities in the Netherlands (400.000, 2.3%, largest non-European minority) and Austria (200.000, 2.2%) and, of course, in Germany with the largest group of Turkish expats in the world. Some 3.5 to 4 millions, nobody knows for sure because many got naturalised, officially some 2.7 million are Turkish nationals. These three states are the big ones, there are sizable Turkish minorities in other states, but nowhere near that quota per population.

 

Start of the sixties, they were first treated as "Gastarbeiter", guest-workers, on a planned rotating schedule, so none of them would stay longer than 2 years in the country and certainly not bring family. That was not implemented as companies preferred keeping their accustomed "Ali" (somewhat affectionate) with the rudimentary German or Dutch these first arrivals had already acquired over that time. First generation Turks were never a problem, did their work, got themselves German friends at work even if keeping somewhat to themselves, as is the norm with new arrivals in a country, no criminality above the normal German level. Having a job and local colleagues is *the* key to integration.

 

After that things went a bit downhill as nobody had anticipated extra effort with integration and language-course would be in order, as those were not needed for other immigrants, chiefly Yugoslavs, Greek, Spanish, Portuguese, and Italians, which just mingled with the majority society and, apart from some minor hiccups with the latter, were not heard of, went "pop", and are run-of-the mill German citizens now. Or Austrian, or Dutch. Many Turks did, too, a greater number did not. Well over half of the Turks see themselves as Turkish, even in the third generation now, even if born and raised over here. They are proud of their country and their president, but it's not Germany or, well, that Gauck guy, can't really blame them.

 

I usually say, Germany and the other countries have been relatively lucky with the Turks and their somewhat moderate, secular Islam, compared to Arab immigrants (got those chiefly from Morocco and Tunisia), although they can be very nationalistic (so can the Greek), both thanks to state-founder Attatürk. Relatively lucky, sure wasn't a catastrophe, it's certainly not a love story either.

 

So that is what the situation is about now. Erdowahn hopes to get what margin of maybe 2% he may be lacking to change the Turkish constitution into a presidential dictatorship, with a strong bias to Sunni Islam, from the Turkish diaspora. Thing is, many of the Turks abroad are not political, and certainly not all are followers of Erdo. Seems to be split down the middle, we're even having brawls now in Germany between those groups.

 

Oh, and some 800.000 of those "Turkish" nationals in Germany are actually Kurds, same anywhere else. Good luck bringing those on board. But I would not be be surprised in the slightest if the weirdest things were to happen to the ballots cast at the Turkish consulates abroad.

[ChidlomDweller]

We have a large Turkish community in Belgium but they're for the most part well integrated.  I don't mind them.  Now for the Moroccans...  

[katana]

Turkish newspaper runs full page headline: "The Dutch army has only 48,000 troops, but 400,000 Turks are living in the Netherlands."

www.reddit.com/r/The_Donald/comments/5yyy88/disgusting_proerdogan_islamist_turkish_newspaper/

 

 

Edited March 12, 2017 by katana

[Saradoc1972]

Just now, katana said:

Turkish newspaper runs full page headline: "The Dutch army has only 48,000 troops, but 400,000 Turks are living in the Netherlands."

www.reddit.com/r/The_Donald/comments/5yyy88/disgusting_proerdogan_islamist_turkish_newspaper/

 

Read that, too, Yeni Akit "magazine". Sounds like a Turkish newspaper, sounds like their big bellowing chieftain. I actually sometimes wonder whether we could not stop Turkish newspapers in our countries and scramble Turkish government propaganda over satellite. German prisons mostly don't offer foreign channels, so sad. 

 

Had some of Yeni Akit ("new deal") artikels run through google-translate just now. Was sorta readable, actually. Maybe Turkish lends itself to translation, or more likely it was simple language for simple people. Tabloid style, plain propaganda, no opinion pieces, "Yes" to Erdo, all Nazis but Turkey, Turks don't want the EU, we'll show them, so "Yes!", yes a thousand times, Erdo-this, Erdo-that.....  Yawn

 

Best one was Erdo being quoted how their Dutch consulate was exterritorial, Turkish soil. Wrong. And "international organizations" were invited to impose sanctions on the Netherlands. Who? Ku-Klux-Klan?

 

Let's break those numbers down, shall we? 400k Turks, half male 200k, half of them not interested or too young or too old 100k, one half very much opposed to Erdo 50k, , 10% militant at best yields 5k. And minus some 20% Kurds among those, some of which might join the fray, just on the other side.

 

Go for it, Erdo-Turks! Get your ticket home to Turkey! Nah, come on, this is very theoretical and supposed to be a joke. But makes you wonder if there should not be some legal reaction to that sort of war-mongering in a newspaper.