British PM May to reject Scottish referendum demand - Times newspaper

[RuamRudy]

2 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

 So will you grace us with your opinion on

 

 

Would? No idea. What would I like? Of course, I would prefer a Scottish fiat currency, however as my expertise is more closely related to delivering oil and gas projects than to devising financial instruments, I will decline from providing you with an avenue to attack my lack of intricate knowledge on the setting up of currencies.

[whatawonderfulday]

S ince when have SNP and its supporters thought of the big picture ?  its all me, me, me which is why they never have had a congruous nation and never will have. Fundamentally, as history shows, you can never have a successful nation when it is run and supported by a bunch of bigoted despots.

[whatawonderfulday]

4 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

Would? No idea. What would I like? Of course, I would prefer a Scottish fiat currency, however as my expertise is more closely related to delivering oil and gas projects than to devising financial instruments, I will decline from providing you with an avenue to attack my lack of intricate knowledge on the setting up of currencies.

Fiat currency ? seems Italian to me but there again the Scots have never been able to do anything on their own. Historically they were supported by the French until they ( the French) realised that they were wasting their resources on what proved to be a lost cause.

[RuamRudy]

8 minutes ago, juice777 said:

Probably not but do you think you not think tbey will have ths same problem with Europe?

From the link you sent me it sounds like Scotland will be giving away more of there Soventery then they have now. I actually don't really care if Scotland go independent. I want what is best for the UK. And I don't pretend to have the knowledge to know what that is. Saying that It dose strike me as unfair that they are even considering another referendum, If in the event of Scotland leaving the UK damages the rest of the UK. They voted to remain they shouldn't get another chance already. If I could see into the future and it wasn't going to Damage the UK I couldn't give a monkeys if they went independent. Actually I am surprised they didn't before I probably would have voted for Independence if I was Scottish. But they didn't so it's to late now

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During the 2014 referendum, it was made abundently clear to Scots that the only way that Scotland could remain in the EU was to vote to remain in the UK. If we were to vote Yes, we would be kicked out of the UK and out of the EU. Further, naked threats were made that we would struggle to get into the EU again. This was not a sideshow, but a fundamental aspect of the Better Together campaign.

 

Alex Salmond made clear that if a Brexit was to take place, this would be considered as a material change in the circumstances of the EU, and if the Scottish electorate wanted to remain in the EU then another referendum would be called. Furthermore, the SNP manifesto 2014 has been clear that they seek to retain Scotland's membership of the EU, whether as a part of the UK or as a separate entity. The overwhelming support that the SNP has in both Holyrood and Westminster is taken as a mandate, therefore, to pursue another independence referendum.

[pegman]

2 hours ago, 7by7 said:

 So are you now saying that by 'English' what you meant was 'the majority?'

 

That is how democracy works, and the UK is a democracy.

 

But that does not mean the English always get their way. Far from it.

 

For example; outside of London and other large cities, most English constituencies historically return Tory MPs. Without the MPs from Scotland and Wales, the UK would never had had a Labour government! 

It will also be a democratic vote, by a majority of Scots, that will havre Scotland remove itself from the UK. As for the Cons of England, when the coming economic depression from losing the EU financial industry hits, they will be solely to blame. They could very well get decimated like the P.Cons of Canada did in 1993. 

[mommysboy]

2 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

Would? No idea. What would I like? Of course, I would prefer a Scottish fiat currency, however as my expertise is more closely related to delivering oil and gas projects than to devising financial instruments, I will decline from providing you with an avenue to attack my lack of intricate knowledge on the setting up of currencies.

Something of a microcosm for lack of financ

 

40 minutes ago, pegman said:

It will also be a democratic vote, by a majority of Scots, that will havre Scotland remove itself from the UK. As for the Cons of England, when the coming economic depression from losing the EU financial industry hits, they will be solely to blame. They could very well get decimated like the P.Cons of Canada did in 1993. 

 

It is generally recognized that Financial Services will not be nearly so badly hit as generally thought- one of those urban myths. In fact it is perhaps the only area where EU stands to suffer more than the UK, which is effectively the EU's banker. Yes there will be losses in the retail sector, indeed this is already happening, but even then we are talking about partial loss as banks open European subsidiaries. Even then this may well be unnecessary, as UK would probably still operate under equivalence.  EU really can't afford to let anything else happen: remember this is a 2 way thing and it would be a disaster, even catastrophe, if EU were to be locked out of the City of London.

Edited March 16, 2017 by mommysboy
addition

[Basil B]

4 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

During the 2014 referendum, it was made abundently clear to Scots that the only way that Scotland could remain in the EU was to vote to remain in the UK

So how many Scott,s voted for Independence to rid Scotland of the EU tyranny??? 

[Basil B]

May say's no...

 

The Scottish Government could hold a referendum but it would not be legally binding, and if it went "tits up" for Sturgeon it could be construed as a vote of no confidence of her.

[citybiker]

May say's no...
 
The Scottish Government could hold a referendum but it would not be legally binding, and if it went "tits up" for Sturgeon it could be construed as a vote of no confidence of her.

And I've just seen the Scottish Parliament in action.

The Sturgeon backlash was tangibly clear.

The vibe was simply unwarranted, unwanted an unnecessary.


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[nontabury]

10 hours ago, Pikeybkk said:

I wish the Scottish nation well in their quest to be released and form their own independent government. Every country has a right to be independent from another and manage their own affairs 100%.

 That's a fair comment. What country are you from?

[nontabury]

11 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

 

This is from 2012, but clearly this has not turned on its head since then:

 

"-for 62 of the last 67 years, Scottish MPs as an entity have had no practical influence over the composition of the UK government. From a high of 72 MPs in 1983, Scotland's representation will by 2015 have decreased to 52, substantially reducing any future possibility of affecting a change.

-on only TWO occasions, the most recent of them being 38 years ago, (1964 and the second of the two 1974 elections), have Scottish MPs given Labour a majority they wouldn't have had from England/Wales/NI alone."

 

 

And in the meantime,Scotland has formed it's own parliament covering many issues. And please remind us all how many P.M. have we had over the last 100yrs, that were Scottish.The same could apply to the make up of the cabinet. At one time since ww2 the cabinet of 19 consisted of 16 Scots from a region with a population of 5million, and just 2 from England with a population at that time of about 45million. This just leaves one question, "Why" has England never given birth to a nationalist moment to free us from our Scottish colonial masters.

 

 

Edited March 17, 2017 by nontabury

[RuamRudy]

4 hours ago, citybiker said:

 

 

And I've just seen the Scottish Parliament in action.

The Sturgeon backlash was tangibly clear.

The vibe was simply unwarranted, unwanted an unnecessary.


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Of course it would be clear - the SNP does not have a majority in Holyrood but leads a slim coalition. The opposition parties are all opposed to independence.

[RuamRudy]

1 hour ago, nontabury said:

This just leaves one question, "Why" has England never given birth to a nationalist moment to free us from our Scottish colonial masters.

I sincerely wish you had, but I guess that most English realise what a good thing they are on with maintaining the status quo  

[RuamRudy]

1 hour ago, nontabury said:

 

I never got to see Question Time last night, but I understand that the crowd was very much a moderated version of the man in my video yesterday.

English racist abuse of non-Brits is already at alarming levels. Now, sadly, English racist abuse of fellow Brits seems to be acceptable also. Can I look forward to some delightful memes from you decrying this seemingly acceptable form of English racism?

[sidgy]

Fair enough, cut the pie however you choose to try to make your point; it doesn't detract from the fact that the influence of Scottish voters on the compostion of Westminster is negligible.

What relevance is this, you can say this for any area/region of the U.K. The Yorks and Humber for example has a greater population than Scotland but it's number of seats is being reduced from 53 to 50.
You say Scotland has only had influence in two general election results. Well two out of the eighteen in your timeframe is over 9to1 so therefore 8% of the population has influenced over 11% of results


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[RuamRudy]

20 minutes ago, sidgy said:

What relevance is this, you can say this for any area/region of the U.K. The Yorks and Humber for example has a greater population than Scotland but it's number of seats is being reduced from 53 to 50.
You say Scotland has only had influence in two general election results. Well two out of the eighteen in your timeframe is over 9to1 so therefore 8% of the population has influenced over 11% of results


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That's an interesting interpretation of democracy and representation, you have there.

[mommysboy]

37 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

That's an interesting interpretation of democracy and representation, you have there.

Well, I'm all for the Scots having more representation when it really matters: one country one vote.

 

But my impression with you, is that Scotland gets its way regardless!!  Even if it's own people think differently.

 

Take this independence vote: there does not at this point appear to be a single justification for it!  The majority of Scottish people don't seem to want another referendum, and we had a decisive one 2 years ago.  99% of normal people would come to the same conclusion.

 

Hell bent on independence, that's all.

[RuamRudy]

3 minutes ago, mommysboy said:

Well, I'm all for the Scots having more representation when it really matters: one country one vote.

 

But my impression with you, is that Scotland gets its way regardless!!  Even if it's own people think differently.

 

Take this independence vote: there does not at this point appear to be a single justification for it!  The majority of Scottish people don't seem to want another referendum, and we had a decisive one 2 years ago.  99% of normal people would come to the same conclusion.

 

Hell bent on independence, that's all.

I agree that there appear to be mixed signals. The SNP mandate is undisputable, and polls show a relentless climb in support for independence to record levels - even yesterday's Telegraph printed that one. However the referendum results were very disappointing.

 

If you look at the demographics of the referendum, you will see that it is a bit less cut and dried than simply saying the majority of Scots think don't support independence.

 

And the current push for referendum number 2, well maybe people are a bit fatigued by it all.

[mommysboy]

I think the truest thing to say is that Scottish people want an independent Scotland within the UK.  Devo/Devo Max was supposed to address this issue, but is/was inadequate.

 

And they do not wish to be ruled over by the English, but rather, by choice, delegate some power over to the UK as a whole regarding decisions that can only be made collectively, eg, EU membership.

 

Currently, that indeed does not appear possible, since by weight of numbers English voters invariably get their way, even with relatively tight referendi: the Brexit vote provides a stark example.

 

Personally I see certain votes, as a 'by country' issue.

 

In effect then, I see the whole independence issue something of a false dichotomy.  One which both sides are happy to play along with for their own narrow gain, and that does the people of England and Scotland no good whatsoever.

 

 

[Basil B]

12 hours ago, nontabury said:

And in the meantime,Scotland has formed it's own parliament covering many issues. And please remind us all how many P.M. have we had over the last 100yrs, that were Scottish.The same could apply to the make up of the cabinet. At one time since ww2 the cabinet of 19 consisted of 16 Scots from a region with a population of 5million, and just 2 from England with a population at that time of about 45million. This just leaves one question, "Why" has England never given birth to a nationalist moment to free us from our Scottish colonial masters.

 

 

 

Yes, Sturgeon reminds me of Violet Elizabeth Bott... I will scream and scream.

[juice777]

I know it's a long way of but after Brexit and if Scotland leave the UK. Will we have to build a trump style wall to keep all the Europeans out? who would like to get to England to work without Visas. If Scotland is part of Europe and England ant, then it will be easy route into England and Wales. How much would that cost and who will pay?

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[whatawonderfulday]

Not sure about the cost but sure as hell we won't get the Italians to build it again, wasn't high enough the first time

[mommysboy]

On 17/03/2017 at 2:41 AM, Basil B said:

So how many Scott,s voted for Independence to rid Scotland of the EU tyranny??? 

 

500,000 is the figure being bandied around by media. To clarify: that is the number of people who voted for independence, and then voted for Brexit.  I don't know if this is true.  It would throw up some interesting permutations if there was to be a referendum any time soon.

[juice777]

Not sure about the cost but sure as hell we won't get the Italians to build it again, wasn't high enough the first time

I know a few builders who will put a quote In. But thinking about it they won't be able to do it after Brexit it because they might have to go home.

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[nontabury]

9 minutes ago, juice777 said:

I know it's a long way of but after Brexit and if Scotland leave the UK. Will we have to build a trump style wall to keep all the Europeans out who would like to get to England to work without Visas. If Scotland is part of Europe and England ant then it will be easy route into England and Wales. How much would that cost and who will pay.

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Cheap at any price.

If in the event of another referendum,would it be possible to include in the ACT, That should Scotland vote to remain in the union,that the rest of the Union would get the opportunity to have a referendum on the inequalities of the Barnet Formula and the West Lothian question.  

[mommysboy]

24 minutes ago, juice777 said:

I know it's a long way of but after Brexit and if Scotland leave the UK. Will we have to build a trump style wall to keep all the Europeans out? who would like to get to England to work without Visas. If Scotland is part of Europe and England ant, then it will be easy route into England and Wales. How much would that cost and who will pay?

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Convention dictates it would be Scotland.  I doubt it would be a 'Trump' style wall- probably a wall in some places and drones in others.

[juice777]

Convention dictates it would be Scotland.  I doubt it would be a 'Trump' style wall- probably a wall in some places and drones in others.

Sorry but what good will drones be?

Will they be able to drop nets?

Also why would Scotland want to pay to build a wall to keep Europeans out of England and Wales. Mexico don't want to pay for the trump wall. Unless they want to keep the English out.

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[mommysboy]

1 minute ago, juice777 said:

Sorry but what good will drones be?

Will they be able to drop nets?

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The problem is walls are symbolic, but not insurmountable- in fact to some there is no greater challenge!  There is also the underground element, as well as the straight through the middle bunch.  I can't see too many Scots being desperate enough to want escape, or vice- versa.  In theory, by the time of its construction their shouldn't be many illegals.

 

Drones! I don't know exactly, but I suppose they supply a constant stream of video/ infra red pictures to ground patrols.

 

[juice777]

The problem is walls are symbolic, but not insurmountable- in fact to some there is no greater challenge!  There is also the underground element, as well as the straight through the middle bunch.  I can't see too many Scots being desperate enough to want escape, or vice- versa.  In theory, by the time of its construction their shouldn't be many illegals.
 
Drones! I don't know exactly, but I suppose they supply a constant stream of video/ infra red pictures to ground patrols.
 

The problem is walls are symbolic, but not insurmountable- in fact to some there is no greater challenge!

Reminds me of Glastonbury

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[RuamRudy]

15 minutes ago, juice777 said:

Sorry but what good will drones be?

Will they be able to drop nets?

Also why would Scotland want to pay to build a wall to keep Europeans out of England and Wales. Mexico don't want to pay for the trump wall. Unless they want to keep the English out.

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I envisage it more like the Berlin wall, with we Scots encouraging our repressed English brethren to risk all for a life of freedom on our side, but a crack force of BrexiStasi with machine guns are mannning the ramparts, 'encouraging' the English to remain in the promised land.