Foreign Radical Feminists In Thailand

[Yohan]

yes, yohan seems to be very knowledgable about this subject.

hhmmmm! i wonder why?

It is easy to explain, through my work, travelling alone for most of the time, despite being married with a Japanese woman, work usually related to customer service, I was working in a bank, serving Jews dealing with EastEurope, I was working in a travel agency related especially to SowjetUnion, I was working for black people from West Africa, working for Arabs, working for Serbia....like to travel, somewhere between Turkey and India....had a Chinese girl friend in Malaysia, was living together with a crazy, but sexy Cantonese Chinese actress in Singapore, had the intention to marry a Muslim girl - made illegal visits into Burma by motorcycle 20 years ago, , made visits to the Philippines........ now living in Japan....and Japan also is a quite free society ...

A radical feminist on this forum is calling me a woman-hater....

I think, she is wrong.... I like women too much....

And one important point more: I like to talk with the locals, and I like to ride my own motor-cycle everywhere....this is very helpful, if you want to explore the night-life of a country.....

Now I am not so *active* anymore, getting old....but still I have some insider informations...

Hope, this answers some questions about me.

Johann

[Boo]

Personally, I think this topic has fizzled out but here goes, my tuppence worth....

Yohann & Miss Nina have different ideas, fair enough but calling a person a radical femanist & asking if they are needed in any country is a bit of daft really, cause most of us expats come from countries where there are no restrictions on peoples views & beleiefs & that is also Thailand policy, so, whether we want them here on not, is tough crap. We have no choice, same as we can't stop the sex tourists so why should we be able to stop the femanazis?

Personally I'm a peopleist (made that one up, not sure if it means anything else ). I beleive there should be equal rights for all, adults & child, regardless of sex, race, religious beliefs etc. If that makes me a radical feminist, so be it.

Yohann raised some points about the policies of his own country, but instead of going off on people with different views than his, shouldn't he be rallying against those policies, instead of raving about them when he is thousands of miles away living in Asia? Surely, if you've chosen to live in Asia, your own countries policies shouldn't affect you any more, so what the problem? Just enjoy the freedom Asia obviously give you, relish it & thank yourself lucky.

As for msNina, let her come & do her research & if it helps even one person, man, woman or child in thailand, then shouldn't she be applauded for improving someones lot. Most people who come here with the mission to save the poor, uneducated, simple people of thailand , are misguided, BUT, if they can help one person, then it's a good thing, right? It doesn't matter what their original idea was, but if they can save the life of a child or educate a young boy or girl enough that they can work in an office or supermarket, instead of in the sex trade, then thats got to be a good deed!.

Now if you excuse me, I'm off to make my husband a sunday roast, do the laundry so I have clean clothes to wear for work next week, hover the floor & clean the bathroom, while hubby takes out the rubbish & then settles down to sleep off his hangover in front of the box.

Radical femanist, I ###### wish!

p.s. If nothing more interesting gets said, I will close this thread, cause to me it's just going round in circles.

[MsNina]

yohan, you not only presume an awful lot about me, but you make statements which are completely untrue. I am not a researcher and am not going to Thailand to conduct a study about the women in Thailand's sex industry/ies. I don't have my air fare paid for, will not be getting an expense account, and have no political connections. I've also quite clearly said that I'm not going there to save (or 'resque') anyone, but if you were to acknowledge that, then it would dilute your misogynistic diatribes against radical feminists, wouldn't it? You might be able to put a whole lot of internet links here, but you are still completely - and probably willfully - misinformed about radical feminists if you truly believe that radical feminists do not care about other disadvantaged groups.

You have also misquoted me - Thailand is _a_ major centre of trafficking, but not _the_ (as in, the only) major centre. Unfortunately, there are many key areas, in terms of numbers, of trafficking.

Axel, trafficked women go overseas expecting to work in restaurants, as hostesses in bars, as nannies, or to be involved in prostitution - what they don't expect is that their passports will be taken away from them, their movements restricted if not completely confined, violence, inability to choose 'clients,' or to insist upon a condom etc. etc. You might think this is naive, but who really expects that they will suffer the most violent abuses when they sign up to go overseas?

Finally, re: the question of male privilege, here are some indisputable facts which demonstrate gender inequality.

- 2/3 of the planet’s 2.8 billion poor who live on less than $2 a day, are women.

- 2/3 of the world’s 880 million illiterate, are women.

- 2/3 of the 113 million children who do not go to school are girls.

- women own 1% of the world’s land.

- 90% of war causalities are civilians, 80% of whom are women and children. A century ago, 90% of war casualties were military men.

- 2/3 of the exploited informal work force are women.

- Although women now represent 41% of all workers in developing countries, their wages are 30-40% less than those of men for comparable work.

- Adult women suffer more than men from malnutrition and girls are twice as likely to die from malnutrition and preventable childhood disease than boys.

[Yohan]

Yohann & Miss Nina have different ideas, fair enough but calling a person a radical femanist & asking if they are needed in any country is a bit of daft really, cause most of us expats come from countries where there are no restrictions on peoples views & beleiefs & that is also Thailand policy, so, whether we want them here on not, is tough crap. We have no choice, same as we can't stop the sex tourists so why should we be able to stop the femanazis?

.......

Yohann raised some points about the policies of his own country.................

1-

First of all, it was not I, who was calling MsNina a radical feminist from beginning on - she introduced herself as a radical feminist and is not against that at all......

I was thinking first, she is from any religious sect, but she declined and told us, she is an atheist and a radical feminist.....

and by the way, she called me a WOMAN-HATER....

Read the postings, before complaining.....

2-

The question is, do we need somebody, who is a RADICAL?

Do you welcome RADICAL MOSLEMS in Thailand?

Do you welcome RADICAL RACISTS in Thailand?

YES or NO?

Why do you welcome RADICAL FEMINISTS in Thailand?

The only argument, what you might answer to me, is that a RADICAL FEMINIST is a WOMAN (mostly, but not always.....by the way) -

3-

MsNina was quoting SWEDEN (man a criminal, woman innocent)

This is EQUALITY for you?

Yes, I was quoting some examples in return of Norway, and Austria (my own country) both female dominated society .....

Do you call such strange laws EQUALITY?

Just enjoy the freedom Asia obviously give you, relish it & thank yourself lucky

Yes, this is the reason, why I do not like the RADICAL FEMINISTS here in Thailand!

4-

You cannot stop a sex-tourist, and I cannot stop a femi-nazi. But:

A sex-tourist is not entering my family-life, however a femi-nazi is doing it.

A sex-tourist is not a RADICAL, but a femi-nazi is a RADICAL....

5-

To help poor people in Thailand?

Seems, YOU are misguided.

A radical feminist is not in Thailand to help.... but to produce questionable reports, and then to try to make money out of it -

what else do you expect from a person, who adores scandal writers like Dworkin or Greer?

In fact, all heterosexual sex seems tantamount to rape.

Intercourse with men as we know them is increasingly impossible.

Unambiguous conventional heterosexual behavior is the worst betrayal of our common humanity (Dworkin 1974, p.184).

6-

Now if you excuse me, I'm off to make my husband a sunday roast, do the laundry so I have clean clothes to wear for work next week, hover the floor & clean the bathroom, while hubby takes out the rubbish & then settles down to sleep off his hangover in front of the box. 

What about to help these poor bar-girls and to employ one as your maid?

Johann

[natee1]

"NOBODY is interested to help people"

I really don't understand what makes you say this, and all the attacks you come out with, but thanks for the link, anyway, Johan, I hope it is not a virus or Trojan.

I would say everyone agrees that it is a good thing to help the handicapped, but if you say you want to prevent sexual exploitation, people dispute whether it exists at all.

qote axel:

"Is any of the members reading in here prepared to come forward and say, yes, I do exploit women, yes, I support exploitation of children and I support and know of traffickers in the sex industry. Perhaps yes, but I doubt it and do give the members blank credit."

They won't come forweard, but maybe exposed and arrested. Let's pick up on this subject when news from Chiang Mai comes up.

Thanks for the link, MsNina.

[Yohan]

.........it would dilute your misogynistic diatribes against radical feminists..........

Finally, re: the question of male privilege, here are some indisputable facts which demonstrate gender inequality.

- 2/3 of the planet’s 2.8 billion poor who live on less than $2 a day, are women.

- 2/3 of the world’s 880 million illiterate, are women.

- 2/3 of the 113 million children who do not go to school are girls.

- women own 1% of the world’s land.

- 90% of war causalities are civilians, 80% of whom are women and children. A century ago, 90% of war casualties were military men.

- 2/3 of the exploited informal work force are women.

- Although women now represent 41% of all workers in developing countries, their wages are 30-40% less than those of men for comparable work.

- Adult women suffer more than men from malnutrition and girls are twice as likely to die from malnutrition and preventable childhood disease than boys.

your misogynistic diatribes against radical feminists..........

Great formulation, MsNina, you make me smile.....

You are admitted to Radical Feminist High School!

-----

Your data have nothing to do with gender equality......

If yes, it should be in all countries about the same situation.....

Your data are related to rich/poor countries......

Strange to me to mix all together from Norway to Mali and PapuaNewGuinea, and then to explain me, a man has privileges in Norway, according to that results.......

for example:

Adult women suffer more than men from malnutrition and girls are twice as likely to die from malnutrition and preventable childhood disease than boys.

I did not know, that you have malnutrition in Australia -

- women own 1% of the world’s land

I wonder, how you know, which share is owned by a man or by a woman.....

How do you calculate such strange data???

- 2/3 of the exploited informal work force are women

Who cares about the other 1/3 ?

-----

Yes, IF living in Saudi Arabia or in Iran, it is an advantage, to be a man.....

And also in Niger or in Somalia.......

It is different however in most Westernized countries.....

About Thailand.....I am not sure....

Do you have the same data related to Thailand only?

Are there rights a Thai man has, and a Thai woman does not?

Johann

[Yohan]

"NOBODY is interested to help people"

I really don't understand what makes you say this, and all the attacks you come out with, but thanks for the link, anyway, Johan, I hope it is not a virus or Trojan.

Good evening, Natee1

These are just ordinary links to homepages, which I think, might be useful for your questions,....I do not offer virus, worms or trojans, but I am receiving them sometimes in my email as hate-mail or similar messages...

For your better understandings,

What I said.....

NOBODY is interested to help people, who truly need help.....and no feminist radical group will care about:

Mentally retarded children ....

Deaf and blind people

Old people, who are requiring intensive elderly care

Sick people, who have not enough money for medical care

Handicapped people, often victims of war....

and so on and so on.....

I want to point out, that such poor people like bar-girls are getting much more attention by all these radical feminists compared to people, who are really helpless.

A 25-yrs old bar-girl in Pattaya can help herself much easier than a 25-yrs blind man in Songkhla.

A jobless woman, somewhere in Bangkok, can help herself easier than a man in a wheel car after a labour accident.

A healthy orphan will find new parents by adoption, but a mentally retarded child has no chance.....

Who helps these really poor people? Or do they not need our help?

The problem with MsNina and the radical feminists is, that such services will not help them in their propaganda.....

To save a poor bar-girl out of the wild foreigners in Thailand is a great story,

but to help a blind person to find some possible work will not find the way on the first page of an Australian newspaper.

They must help, where they can make a profitable story out of it.

How do you think, otherwise can they finance their organisation?

Johann

[natee1]

The thread is going around in circles, no more comments.

[Yohan]

The thread is going around in circles, no more comments.

You are right,

after 44 votes, 217 postings and 2757 views......opinions are going around in circles..

discussions do not have an end or a solution - they continue endless, or they die, because nobody posts anything anymore......

Still people posting here - everyday - it is not dead yet.

MsNina is still here, and Yohan is still here....should one of us give up.....

But these radical feminists do not give up.......

So you think, I should give up?

Johann

[natee1]

You won't get me this time, no more postings from me.

[Axel]

Boo I am sorry, but I think you went off on the wrong foot. As I said earlier,

In the beginning there was a lady (apologies, if this form of address is politically incorrect) who posted to the effect, that she does "not have any interest in mingling with the men who sustain the exploitation of women and children in Thailand's sex industries."

Now, in my eyes the original posting, innocent as it was, asking for help on accomodation etc., was an attack in disguise, already. Escalating into human trafficking.

In this context, I daresay the majority of members in her disagree. I can, however, only speak for myself, I am absolutly sure, I am not interested in exploiting woman and children, neither in trafficking them.

Yes, I agree, anybodt involved in either or all, would not stand to say, it is me, perphaps enough to admit to one's self?

Yohan does a good job in counter acting, bringing some back ground information and trying to get deeper into the matter.

His threat is a clear question, "Do we need radical feminist in Thailand?"

My reply is easy, NO, Thailand does not need anything radical.

MsNina, after I posted this afternoon, I realized your post beforehand, to some points I even might agree, albeit you explained it more clearly:

Axel, trafficked women go overseas expecting to work in restaurants, as hostesses in bars, as nannies, or to be involved in prostitution - what they don't expect is that their passports will be taken away from them, their movements restricted if not completely confined, violence, inability to choose 'clients,' or to insist upon a condom etc. etc. You might think this is naive, but who really expects that they will suffer the most violent abuses when they sign up to go overseas?

Can I deduct from this statement, that in principle you agree that it is ok for a Thai woman to go overseas to work as hostesses in bars ..... or to be involved in prostitution....?

Sorry, but I do totally disagree, it is not ok for any womon to go overseas for these two 'jobs', the rest, fine with me. So the target should be to hunt down the people who promise jobs for waitresses which turn out to be jobs in prostitution. But than again, I refuse to believe that anybody would expect a highly paid job to contain only to sing nursery rhymes. The Thai people I know, and theree are a couple of them or so, do know very well what is expected of the women the accept to be sent abroad. So why not stop it there, at the root?

A better, albeit more difficult, way would be to help Thailand to prosper. Once there is enough money to afford a little bit more than the daily rice, forced prostitution will disappear.

20-30 years ago, you had the same situation, as in Thailand today, in places like Hong Kong or Taiwan, even Korea. Today, you will find hardly any Chinese girls in, let's say Wanchai (Remember the world of Suzy Wong?) or Linsen North Road in Taipei. Why? "We Chinese girls don't need to do it. "

If you want to change something radically, give the Thai people a chance to earn enough money to not have to send their daughters out. It would not make the woman in the night life disappear, those who like to do the job, would be still around, like all over the world, and that for personal gain, only.

[meemiathai]

"We Chinese girls don't need to do it. "

I hope you are talking about HK Chinese girls only.(although still quite a lot)

For the Chinese girls from mainland China, a great great number of them are now seriously being exploited. I don't know how many of you guys here know about it.

those who like to do the job, would be still around,

Come on, Axel, don't tell me you really believe that there are women who enjoys being prostitutes not because of money.

[Axel]

"We Chinese girls don't need to do it. "

I hope you are talking about HK Chinese girls only.(although still quite a lot)

For the Chinese girls from mainland China, a great great number of them are now seriously being exploited. I don't know how many of you guys here know about it.

those who like to do the job, would be still around,

Come on, Axel, don't tell me you really believe that there are women who enjoys being prostitutes not because of money.

Yes, talking about the Hong Kong girls. Sure still some around working for their own 'business', but being pushed out by Thais, Philippinas and, I agree, more and more from the mainland. Now again, this would be the target for stopping trafficking. But again, even in old Mao's land, today, nobody is forced to become a waitress in the golden mountain.

On the second quote you dropped something, I said,

those who like to do the job, would be still around, like all over the world, and that for personal gain, only.

[natee1]

Better go for the new ones, who still have some humanity left, eh?

Btw, I screwed that stupid monkey from Isaan allnight for $10, but does sexual exploitation really exist, it is only men customers who get exploited in prostitution, hah hah.

THERE ARE SOME SICK FOLKS ON THIS FORUM!!

[Yohan]

1-

I beleive there should be equal rights for all, adults & child, regardless of sex, race, religious beliefs etc. If that makes me a radical feminist, so be it.

.....

2-

Surely, if you've chosen to live in Asia, your own countries policies shouldn't affect you any more, so what the problem?

.....

3-

p.s. If nothing more interesting gets said, I will close this thread, cause to me it's just going round in circles.

1-

It depends, what you consider as the meaning of EQUAL rights...

A radical feminist does not promote equality, as there are no bad women and only criminal men.....

2-

In my case, EQUAL right in my own country makes it possible, that I have to work 14 years longer for retirement as a man compared to a woman. This has nothing to do, where I am living....it will not change anything. I will have to work 14 years longer, regardless if I am working in Japan or in the European community or maybe next year in Thailand....makes no difference, and yes, this is a problem...

3-

I was not aware, that you got administrator rights over my user-account and over contents of my postings.

Still people are posting daily, 44 votes, 222 postings and 2802 views up to now......

it seems it is something interesting said.....

You do not like the contents personally....might be....

You made your posting and said your opinion as an user, and not as an administrator.

You said, you welcome the presence of a foreign radical feminist (MsNina called herself a radical feminist, btw) in Thailand - OK

I said, I do not want to see ANY RADICALS in Thailand, this includes RADICAL FEMINISTS -

Might be, that you do not like my opinion....

What has this to do with your administrator right?

Johann

[Yohan]

-  Better go for the new ones, who still have some humanity left, eh?

Btw, I screwed that stupid monkey from Isaan allnight for $10, but does sexual exploitation really exist, it is only men customers who get exploited in prostitution, hah hah.

THERE ARE SOME SICK FOLKS ON THIS FORUM!!

Yes, Natee1, I agree, there are some sick folks on this forum....

and in your case it is sexual exploitation by the man.....OK OK OK

-----

Now to discuss your comment in a serious way:

Can you explain, what is

sexual exploitation by a woman or by a man?

What makes the difference?

I remember an US president, who was sexually exploiting a helpless poor girl in the White House....

What might be misuse in Asia by the man, might be misuse in USA/Europe by the woman....

Equality between man and woman is a very difficult subject...both are accusing each other....

Yes, and this is the reason why I do not like these radical feminists in Thailand....

They make everything even more difficult!

Johann

[Bad News]

The thread is going around in circles, no more comments.

Okay Sherriff! (nice badge)

Before you ask me to, I will spread my feet

and put my hands on the car.

I just ask one thing.

Please use a clean rubber glove!

Baby, you got some nerve.

[natee1]

...read my signature.

Don't need rubber gloves, does aids really exist? Don't believe everything radicals say...

[meemiathai]

does aids really exist?

Well, is a very difficult subject...some say yes and some say no.

And that's why I don't like doctors. They make everything even more difficult!

[Yohan]

Boo I am sorry, but I think you went off on the wrong foot. As I said earlier,

.....

Now, in my eyes the original posting, innocent as it was, asking for help on accomodation etc., was an attack in disguise, already. Escalating into human trafficking.

.......

Yohan does a good job in counter acting, bringing some back ground information and trying to get deeper into the matter.

His threat is a clear question, "Do we need radical feminist in Thailand?"

My reply is easy, NO, Thailand does not need anything radical.

Axel, thank you for this posting,

The point is, Ms. BOO does not know about the original postings of MsNina, as it was in the Bangkok Section....

Mrs. BOO never read about, how MsNina was approaching this Thaivisa-Forum.

Now, there is also another interesting thread running, discussion related to divorce and what it means to be an equal (=man) in such unpleasant cases in Europe.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=9190&st=15

This here is already a long thread, and many questions are still open, because they do not like to comment on it - I never expected to catch so much attention with it. 228 posting, 45 votes and 2921 views....just in these some few days...

Anyway, I think you (and hopefully some other readers, too) got an idea, what radical feminism is in reality.

Unfortunately also some trolls are with this forum....a deep discussion about this subject is difficult.

Maybe the best, to close it.

Johann

[Asiantiger]

I would like to see, some Thai University Academics to enter this discourse .

...or they can add this Caucasian corespontance to Women Studies Curriculum.

I repeat my self " this is 3rd world country..."

Femminism is luxury item ... so many other issues exist in this country , so ...this one is in the bottom of it's list , for the first 10years of 21st century ... I hope

[natee1]

Let's get the viewings up to 3000. Turn your tape on, Yohan...

[Bad News]

6,000 viewings, ensured by pictures of naked feminists,

all by the stroke of midnight.

Nothing does it for me like a naked feminist

in the moonlight..........make it 7,000

[natee1]

Ssst, ssst,

where have I left that cattle prod?

[chuckd]

Cattle prods? Naked feminists?

Now we are getting somewhere!

[Boo]

Yohann, The point of my post was that we have no choice what goes on in Thailand, none of us do. If your own countries polices affect you this deeply, as they obviously do, then you should look at directing some of the energy you have put in here into changing those laws & rules instead of throwing them at people who think you go a bit too far, every 5 minutes. I personally couldn't give a fig for radical femanists & comparing them to radical muslims, whatever, is up to you, thailand will decide who can stay & who can go. But I don't see what getting all het up on a thailand expats forum is going to achieve except maybe to raise your blood pressure!. Personally I don't think msnina & the people who follow her ideas will get very far in thailand, same as none of us do really, thailand is for thais & it doesn't matter how much shouting & ranting we do about anything, will ever make it change.

I have no rights over your user board but I can deceide what stays & what goes, & if you had spent a bit longer backing up you impecable research instead of making snide comments againts people who disagree with you, this thread might have gone somewhere & the requests of others to close the thread has to be considered.

Big deal, msnina,. doesn't like men, theres lots of men who don't like women but I couldn't give a toss, I'm confident in myself enough that I couldn't realy give a ###### about them & thats the way you should feel. You have a wife & kids & a good life, so your country sucks, most do, but enjoy your life & avoid the people you don't like. It's that simple.

And by the way, it MRS boo, not MS.

[Bad News]

Cattle prods?  Naked feminists?

Now we are getting somewhere!

Hey, lets saddle up and drive this herd.........

Equal opportunity cowboys?

Nah just doesn't sound right does it?

Nothing sexier than a feminist on a horse though!

Well, maybe a naked feminist on a horse in the moonlight!

Bucking bronco!!

[natee1]

You're mixing up feminist and feminine.

Psss, sssssssstt...

[Bad News]

You're mixing up feminist and feminine.

Psss, sssssssstt...

Assuming I am a man and incredibly stupid of course.

[Axel]

And by the way, it MRS boo, not MS.

LOL, this last sentence really made my day, fitting so well to the threat.

Well, myself for one did learn a lot and actually a thank you to both, MsNina and Yohan having put so much effort into this subject. Not sure, if we can call it the battle of the sexes?

Of course, ThaiVisa and it's members can change anything of what goes on neither in Thailand nor in the Visa-policy, or can they?

Over the the last months I learned a lot about visa, about Thailand, about farangs in Thailand and on top of this I learned that there are not only feminists but nowadays even selfappointed radical feminists.

I by myself, have a life, have a visa, have a driving licence and could give a ###### if others have it. Still, I try once in awhile to help others in here to get either or all.

And thanks to these postings on the radical reminist part I did learn that they do exist and are over here in LOS.

Good or bad news? The repsonses to the threat give me a pretty good idea.

Albeit, I will not change my mind and prefer feminines to radicals and feminists in Thailand.