May be news in or Not in Immigration in Phuket about Retirement extension.

[PhuketSarah]

17 minutes ago, skatewash said:

If you are relying on any bank deposit to meet the requirements then it is my understanding that you need both the bank letter and a bank statement, each issued by the bank containing the appropriate signatures and stamps.  That is, you need them if you are using the bank-only method or the combination method.

If you are relying simply on having >= 65,000 Baht income (certified by your Embassy letter) then you do not need to have either the bank letter or a bank statement.

 

However, it is within the purview of the immigration officer to ask questions about how you support yourself while living in Thailand.  For that reason, I take a lot of documentation with me when I go for my retirement extension.  These things seem obvious to me but maybe not everyone sees it the same way.  I take with me:

 

Bank book and ATM card of the savings account I use to satisfy the 800,000 Baht requirement.  This bank account is a Mee Tae Dai savings account at Krungsri (which I recommend for this purpose).  This account shows very little activity.

Bank book and ATM card of the savings account I maintain at Bangkok Bank.  This bank book shows FET (the Bangkok Bank code for Foreign Exchange Transactions) of money coming into Thailand.  It also shows weekly or so withdrawals using the ATM card.  This shows the money I live on and the FET entries show that this money comes from outside Thailand.

 

My chanote and Tabian bahn (blue) for my condo.

My house registration Tabian bahn (yellow) to show where I live.

 

A hand-drawn map to my condo.  (I heard this was a requirement at some immigration offices.)

Pictures of me standing in front of my condo development.  This is in addition to the picture of me standing in front of my condo unit (which shows the address number).

 

I bring my current CAT internet bills, and Provincial Electric Authority (PEA) electricity bills that show me receiving mail at my condo unit address.  

None of these extra things are required as far as I know.  I don't show any of them unless I'm asked.  I bring them with me because it's easy to do so and if I were asked to show evidence of how I am supporting myself in Thailand they could very well help me to do so.  I have only rarely had to actually use any of these things, but I feel much better having them with me.  They serve me much better by coming with me to immigration than sitting a home.  

 

One time I was asked to provide copies of my 800,000 Baht bank account (yes, despite having the required certified bank letter and bank statement).  I smiled and pulled out the copies I had out of my backpack, signed them in front of the officer and handed them over.  Problem solved.  Another time I was sent to the local copy shop to make copies of something, but I don't at this time remember what it was.  Again, took whatever it was he wanted out of my backpack, went and made copies.  Problem solved.  

I never kick up any sort of a fuss at what I'm asked to provide, even if in some cases it doesn't seem to make any sense.  Especially if it's something I can do easily with what I've brought with me.  The way I look at it is this:  it's my job to make his job of giving me my extension as easy as possible.  If this means doing something extra (not specifically required) to give him a warm fuzzy feeling that I'm not illegally working in Thailand, I do it.  My retirement extensions tend to be very quick and actually pleasant.  I know I'm lucky in this respect, and that sometimes things go wrong that are completely out of your control.  But I also believe that to a certain extent you make your own luck ;-)

 

And once again, you make the best post EVER!!    Cheers 

Believe me, I  know how to act when I go in there, dressed nicely,  etc.  Almost, but not quite simpering eagerness to submission. 

Edited August 7, 2017 by PhuketSarah

[Jimi007]

This was just posted on  the Americans in Phuket  group FB page.  Far more comprehensive and clear  than the requirement  list I was given. 
 

It was posted on The Phuket forum in at least two threads, also on your post in the Visa extension thread, but apparently you are too busy to read the threads and just continue to post BS! I hope you finally figured out what we have been telling you all along!!!


Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[PhuketSarah]

18 hours ago, skatewash said:

If you are relying on any bank deposit to meet the requirements then it is my understanding that you need both the bank letter and a bank statement, each issued by the bank containing the appropriate signatures and stamps.  That is, you need them if you are using the bank-only method or the combination method.

If you are relying simply on having >= 65,000 Baht income (certified by your Embassy letter) then you do not need to have either the bank letter or a bank statement.

 

However, it is within the purview of the immigration officer to ask questions about how you support yourself while living in Thailand.  For that reason, I take a lot of documentation with me when I go for my retirement extension.  These things seem obvious to me but maybe not everyone sees it the same way.  I take with me:

 

Bank book and ATM card of the savings account I use to satisfy the 800,000 Baht requirement.  This bank account is a Mee Tae Dai savings account at Krungsri (which I recommend for this purpose).  This account shows very little activity.

Bank book and ATM card of the savings account I maintain at Bangkok Bank.  This bank book shows FET (the Bangkok Bank code for Foreign Exchange Transactions) of money coming into Thailand.  It also shows weekly or so withdrawals using the ATM card.  This shows the money I live on and the FET entries show that this money comes from outside Thailand.

 

My chanote and Tabian bahn (blue) for my condo.

My house registration Tabian bahn (yellow) to show where I live.

 

A hand-drawn map to my condo.  (I heard this was a requirement at some immigration offices.)

Pictures of me standing in front of my condo development.  This is in addition to the picture of me standing in front of my condo unit (which shows the address number).

 

I bring my current CAT internet bills, and Provincial Electric Authority (PEA) electricity bills that show me receiving mail at my condo unit address.  

None of these extra things are required as far as I know.  I don't show any of them unless I'm asked.  I bring them with me because it's easy to do so and if I were asked to show evidence of how I am supporting myself in Thailand they could very well help me to do so.  I have only rarely had to actually use any of these things, but I feel much better having them with me.  They serve me much better by coming with me to immigration than sitting a home.  

 

One time I was asked to provide copies of my 800,000 Baht bank account (yes, despite having the required certified bank letter and bank statement).  I smiled and pulled out the copies I had out of my backpack, signed them in front of the officer and handed them over.  Problem solved.  Another time I was sent to the local copy shop to make copies of something, but I don't at this time remember what it was.  Again, took whatever it was he wanted out of my backpack, went and made copies.  Problem solved.  

I never kick up any sort of a fuss at what I'm asked to provide, even if in some cases it doesn't seem to make any sense.  Especially if it's something I can do easily with what I've brought with me.  The way I look at it is this:  it's my job to make his job of giving me my extension as easy as possible.  If this means doing something extra (not specifically required) to give him a warm fuzzy feeling that I'm not illegally working in Thailand, I do it.  My retirement extensions tend to be very quick and actually pleasant.  I know I'm lucky in this respect, and that sometimes things go wrong that are completely out of your control.  But I also believe that to a certain extent you make your own luck ;-)

 

Quote

I never kick up any sort of a fuss at what I'm asked to provide, even if in some cases it doesn't seem to make any sense.

 

I think the desired attitude is to appear completely submissive,   of course but with a nuanced underling  letting  the IO relish  your hassle  procuring some docs thereby  obtaining satisfaction  dismissing them  with a flick of the hand.

 I'd even go so far as  the " Copy of passport certified "  is deliberately misleading and vague  in order to get you to spend money on unnecessary notarization which can be shunted aside. 

 

Quote

One time I was asked to provide copies of my 800,000 Baht bank account (yes, despite having the required certified bank letter and bank statement).

So you had to show 800 K AND the income letter?  When was this?  

[PhuketSarah]

NASA 123,  Can  you  please let me know what is the source of  the opening post requirement sheet ?  

   It's very comprehensive and clear,  so that makes me think it is NOT from immigration. 

Do you have a link for it?  

 Thanks  

[phuketjock]

1 hour ago, PhuketSarah said:

 

I think the desired attitude is to appear completely submissive,   of course but with a nuanced underling  letting  the IO relish  your hassle  procuring some docs thereby  obtaining satisfaction  dismissing them  with a flick of the hand.

 I'd even go so far as  the " Copy of passport certified "  is deliberately misleading and vague  in order to get you to spend money on unnecessary notarization which can be shunted aside. 

 

So you had to show 800 K AND the income letter?  When was this?  

How dumb can one person be, truly bizarre. 

 

1 hour ago, PhuketSarah said:

One time I was asked to provide copies of my 800,000 Baht bank account (yes, despite having the required certified bank letter and bank statement).

Where in the above quote is there any mention of needing an income letter????????

[KarenBravo]

1 hour ago, PhuketSarah said:

 

I think the desired attitude is to appear completely submissive,   of course but with a nuanced underling  letting  the IO relish  your hassle  procuring some docs thereby  obtaining satisfaction  dismissing them  with a flick of the hand.

 I'd even go so far as  the " Copy of passport certified "  is deliberately misleading and vague  in order to get you to spend money on unnecessary notarization which can be shunted aside. 

  

Must be the IO reacting to your personality. They've been nothing but polite and helpful to me.

[phuketjock]

1 hour ago, PhuketSarah said:

NASA 123,  Can  you  please let me know what is the source of  the opening post requirement sheet ?  

   It's very comprehensive and clear,  so that makes me think it is NOT from immigration. 

Do you have a link for it?  

 Thanks  

I am not 100% sure but I would say it was made up by experienced Phuket retirees to assist

people who require the info and are searching for the requirements for application of an 

extension of stay based on retirement, and everyone who has tried, in vain, to help you has

told you over and over again what you need to do to easily meet the requirements and again

over and over again tried to tell you where you are going wrong.

There is no link to my knowledge that is just what people do, in an effort to help, but sadly

there is no helping the unhelpable............ 

[Jimi007]

Sarahphuket; read this thread. It's what guided me when I applied for my one year extension based on retirement. I was at room 103 for maybe 10 minutes and came back the next day after 1 PM to pick my passport up with my one year extension in it. Quite doubting everyone who has tried to help you. And just go do it! Oh that's right you can't yet, not until 30 days before your current extension expires! Like I told you weeks ago!

 

 

[skatewash]

1 hour ago, PhuketSarah said:

 

I think the desired attitude is to appear completely submissive,   of course but with a nuanced underling  letting  the IO relish  your hassle  procuring some docs thereby  obtaining satisfaction  dismissing them  with a flick of the hand.

 I'd even go so far as  the " Copy of passport certified "  is deliberately misleading and vague  in order to get you to spend money on unnecessary notarization which can be shunted aside. 

 

So you had to show 800 K AND the income letter?  When was this?  

11

No, if that were the case I would have said the embassy income letter, rather than the bank letter (verifying your account and balance as of a certain date).  I do try to be precise in what I am saying, but probably do not always live up to that ideal.

As for the desired attitude:  there's probably a continuum between sniveling and arrogant.  Here's the way I think about it:  if I were an immigration officer how would I like the applicant to behave?  Requires a little imagination, perhaps.  What works for me, might not work for you.  I do not find it necessary to educate the immigration officer on how he could do his job to better suit me.  I aim for compliant, but well short of obsequiousness.  If he asks for something that is not on the required documentation sheet, I guess I could try to have a discussion with him about how that's not a good thing to ask for something that's not already on the sheet.  But often times I find it's easier to just provide what he wants.  Your mileage may vary ;-)

I think rather than the "copy of passport certified" being intentionally misleading it might rather be due to the fact that English is not the native language of most of the immigration officers.  I admit it would be clearer to have said that the applicant must sign each page of copies they provide to immigration (attesting that those are true copies).  However, on those occasions when I have written things in Thai I wonder how close I came to the meaning I was trying to convey.  Probably not very often, is my guess.

 

Here are a few additional thoughts about the retirement extension experience at the Phuket Immigration Office:

 

Go early.  I don't mean early in the day (necessarily) but as early as you can before your permission to stay expires.  For Phuket, this is 30 days before your permission to stay expires.  The reason for doing this is that it allows you the maximum time (up to 30 days) to address any problems you may have with your application.  Going so far in advance also allows you to be selective about which day of the week you decide to visit immigration.  You never want to go to immigration the day before or after a public holiday for which the immigration office was closed.  Such days tend to be very busy, indeed.  I recommend Tuesdays, Wednesdays, and Thursdays.  I avoid Mondays and Fridays because these are the busier days at the office.  Fridays are also not optimal because when you make your application on a Friday you have to wait until Monday to pick up your passport with your retirement extension in it.  I don't like to have my passport out of my possession for any longer than necessary.

In fact, the only reason I can imagine not going 30 days early is if you need the time to further season your bank deposit (the 2 or three months it must remain at 800,000 Baht or greater before you can make your application).  It cost you nothing, you get the very same number of days added to your permission to stay as you would if you went on the last possible day.  You don't shorten your extension to stay in any way when you apply for it early.  In fact, because I apply 30 days early I like to think that I get a 13-month extension rather than just a 12-month one ;-)

When you arrive at immigration go directly to room 103.  You do not need a queue number to make your application, so you do not need to speak to an immigration volunteer first.  The immigration volunteers do a creditable job of helping the inexperienced, making sure they have the correct documentation.  But for people doing a retirement extension (especially if it's not their first one) they should have, in my opinion, a pretty firm grasp on what is required.  Outside of room 103 there is sometimes (often) an immigration officer talking with someone at the forms table.  I wait for him to finish and then say hello and indicate that I have documents I would like to give to him.  Usually, he accepts the documents and depending on the day gives me a form to fill out (this is the form acknowledging the penalties for overstay and the prohibition against working, etc.).  I suppress any urge to tell him that the form he is asking me to sign is not on the required documentation list and just sign the form.  Then I sit patiently outside unless directed to sit patiently inside and wait for them to get around to my turn.  My experience is that I don't have to wait very long.

Another thought.  Their lunch hour is 12 noon to 1 PM.  I'm guessing you would not be doing yourself a great favor if you tried to get the immigration officers to do something for you at say 11:58 AM.  Just a theory of mine I've yet to test.

After your visit has gone as expected (accepting application and additional documentation and any additional forms that arise) they will take your picture (here I manage to restrain myself from asking why they are taking my picture, when I had to supply passport photos with my application) and then you are given a receipt for your passport and told what time you can pick it up the following day.  I'm not sure at the moment but it's either 1 or 2 PM if I remember correctly.  Come back the next day and pick up your passport (with new extension) as early as possible, but not earlier than they told you.  Check out that you were given the right permission to stay date.  

If you are getting your (single or multiple) re-entry permit, go to the copy shop on the premises and make a copy of your new extension.  Stand in line for the immigration volunteers on the ground floor to check your paperwork and give you a queue ticket.  Again, this process doesn't seem to take very long, but it can depend on the volume of people in the office.  Then, Bob's your uncle,

you're done for another year (as long as the online 90-day report facility is still working, and you don't need a certificate of residence, you needn't visit immigration for a whole year).

 

 

 

[nasa123]

5 hours ago, PhuketSarah said:

NASA 123,  Can  you  please let me know what is the source of  the opening post requirement sheet ?  

   It's very comprehensive and clear,  so that makes me think it is NOT from immigration. 

Do you have a link for it?  

 Thanks  

PhuketSarah@ It`s better you going home to your Country and take a holiday, And this sheet are from PIV in Immigration in Phuket THE END.

Edited August 8, 2017 by nasa123

[Jimi007]

2 hours ago, skatewash said:

<snip>

In fact, the only reason I can imagine not going 30 days early is if you need the time to further season your bank deposit (the 2 or three months it must remain at 800,000 Baht or greater before you can make your application).  It cost you nothing, you get the very same number of days added to your permission to stay as you would if you went on the last possible day.  You don't shorten your extension to stay in any way when you apply for it early.  In fact, because I apply 30 days early I like to think that I get a 13-month extension rather than just a 12-month one ;-)

When you arrive at immigration go directly to room 103.  You do not need a queue number to make your application, so you do not need to speak to an immigration volunteer first.  The immigration volunteers do a creditable job of helping the inexperienced, making sure they have the correct documentation.  But for people doing a retirement extension (especially if it's not their first one) they should have, in my opinion, a pretty firm grasp on what is required.  Outside of room 103 there is sometimes (often) an immigration officer talking with someone at the forms table.  I wait for him to finish and then say hello and indicate that I have documents I would like to give to him.  Usually, he accepts the documents and depending on the day gives me a form to fill out (this is the form acknowledging the penalties for overstay and the prohibition against working, etc.).  I suppress any urge to tell him that the form he is asking me to sign is not on the required documentation list and just sign the form.  Then I sit patiently outside unless directed to sit patiently inside and wait for them to get around to my turn.  My experience is that I don't have to wait very long.

Another thought.  Their lunch hour is 12 noon to 1 PM.  I'm guessing you would not be doing yourself a great favor if you tried to get the immigration officers to do something for you at say 11:58 AM.  Just a theory of mine I've yet to test.

After your visit has gone as expected (accepting application and additional documentation and any additional forms that arise) they will take your picture (here I manage to restrain myself from asking why they are taking my picture, when I had to supply passport photos with my application) and then you are given a receipt for your passport and told what time you can pick it up the following day.  I'm not sure at the moment but it's either 1 or 2 PM if I remember correctly.  Come back the next day and pick up your passport (with new extension) as early as possible, but not earlier than they told you.  Check out that you were given the right permission to stay date.  

If you are getting your (single or multiple) re-entry permit, go to the copy shop on the premises and make a copy of your new extension.  Stand in line for the immigration volunteers on the ground floor to check your paperwork and give you a queue ticket.  Again, this process doesn't seem to take very long, but it can depend on the volume of people in the office.  Then, Bob's your uncle,

you're done for another year (as long as the online 90-day report facility is still working, and you don't need a certificate of residence, you needn't visit immigration for a whole year).

 

 

 

Looking back through my passports, I usually get my new extension about 3 days in advance of my old one's expiration. I want to go as close to the expiration date as I want 90 days before I have to go report again! It's never been an issue. Although two years ago I had to get the residency document signed by my landlord so I had to pick up the form as I couldn't find it online back then, not sure if it is available online still, have him sign it and make a copy of his ID, then drive back the next day and come back the following day to pick it up and get my re-entry permit. 

[skatewash]

3 minutes ago, Jimi007 said:

Looking back through my passports, I usually get my new extension about 3 days in advance of my old one's expiration. I want to go as close to the expiration date as I want 90 days before I have to go report again! It's never been an issue. Although two years ago I had to get the residency document signed by my landlord so I had to pick up the form as I couldn't find it online back then, not sure if it is available online still, have him sign it and make a copy of his ID, then drive back the next day and come back the following day to pick it up and get my re-entry permit. 

Yes, I neglected to mention that it does have an effect on your 90-day reporting date as the retirement extension approval involves also getting a new 90-day reporting date automatically.  I had a new 90-day receipt stapled to my passport when I picked up my passport from getting the new retirement extension.  I could see why some would like to minimize the number of 90-day reports they need to do if the timing allows.  However, if the online 90-day report is back to being operational it's so easy it doesn't really matter to me that I lose some of my previous 90-day reporting allowance by getting my retirement extension one month early.  If you are not able to use the online facility or it goes down again, the timing of your next 90-day report might influence when you want to go for your retirement extension.

[PhuketSarah]

1 hour ago, nasa123 said:

PhuketSarah@ It`s better you going home to your Country and take a holiday, And this sheet are from PIV in Immigration in Phuket THE END.

 

     It's a good list, thanks.

 

  I'm  gonna take it with me to P IO  and in case of problems  I'll have it  to  say, "Nasa 123  on  Thai Visa  Forum  posted a  list  he got from one of the volunteers,  it's correct, not that erred PoC  you gave me. .."   

Edited August 8, 2017 by PhuketSarah
Better add the sarcasm smiley..

[Jimi007]

42 minutes ago, skatewash said:

Yes, I neglected to mention that it does have an effect on your 90-day reporting date as the retirement extension approval involves also getting a new 90-day reporting date automatically.  I had a new 90-day receipt stapled to my passport when I picked up my passport from getting the new retirement extension.  I could see why some would like to minimize the number of 90-day reports they need to do if the timing allows.  However, if the online 90-day report is back to being operational it's so easy it doesn't really matter to me that I lose some of my previous 90-day reporting allowance by getting my retirement extension one month early.  If you are not able to use the online facility or it goes down again, the timing of your next 90-day report might influence when you want to go for your retirement extension.

I tried it doesn't work, yet again! I went in the morning was about the 3rd person there and I was out in about 10 minutes. I had already filled out the form as I had downloaded a fillable pdf form online. No need for it. Just your passport and last 90 report. The IO officer scanned the barcode on the prior 90 day and the computer printed out a new one completed, other than my signature. Sign here. Next number! I asked him about online reporting. He said system no good! Not work! 

Edited August 8, 2017 by Jimi007

[phuketjock]

14 minutes ago, PhuketSarah said:

 

     It's a good list, thanks.

 

  I'm  gonna take it with me to P IO  and in case of problems  I'll have it  to  say, "Nasa 123  on  Thai Visa  Forum  posted a  list  he got from one of the volunteers,  it's correct, not that erred PoC  you gave me. .."   

Bring in the clowns, don't bother she's here bonkers absolutely over the edge.

Edited August 8, 2017 by phuketjock
correction

[PhuketSarah]

3 hours ago, skatewash said:

Snipped; 

As for the desired attitude:  there's probably a continuum between sniveling and arrogant.

 

 

  For Phuket, this is 30 days before your permission to stay expires. 
 

 

 

 

Great posting, you get my vote for member least likely to have a kitten  while responding on Thai Visa  forum 

 

As for the desired attitude:  there's probably a continuum between sniveling and arrogant.

Yeah,  it's called "Thai Expat Suitably Cowled" 

 

 For Phuket, this is 30 days before your permission to stay expires.

 

Discrepancy number # 37  Thai  school volunteer told me 45 days " BEFORE it expires "  Took a few questions to get it to the correct "within" And .... no, not 45,  it's 30.. OK  This is also what I had thought.

 The IO was annoyed  by my needing to clarify that point and began watching TV  as I was asked about the lack of "Or" on item 3

So I need 800 K and 65,K monthly  income- grunts  " yes" 

I never got to the certification question.

 

 

[Jimi007]

14 minutes ago, phuketjock said:

Bring in the clowns, don't bother she's here bonkers absolutely over the edge.

Agreed! Time to stop feeding the troll... Is "she" a Bangtaoboy reincarnation? 

[stevenl]

15 minutes ago, Jimi007 said:

Agreed! Time to stop feeding the troll... Is "she" a Bangtaoboy reincarnation? 

That's an insult to bangtaoboy, who made many good posts and is still active here.