Bangkok Bank caution about Visa Letter - things have changed

[LannaGuy]

2 minutes ago, 55Jay said:

I did my annual extension a few days ago, using bank letter, same as past 3 years.  Had to return next day to drop off photos and a map to house and while the I/O was stamping and organizing those, she asked me if I could meet the monthly income test.  I paused, wondering why the seemingly random question.  Said yes, but prefer the bank letter route.  She nodded, finished up then I left.

 

The accounts I use are virtually untouched as well, mostly just a year's worth of monthly interest deposits in the book. Fair play to her I suppose, a curious person might wonder where the normal, daily life type transaction are. 

Yes they may ask that question more in the future as Thailand become less farang friendly (it's on the way folks). 

[55Jay]

2 minutes ago, LannaGuy said:

Yes they may ask that question more in the future as Thailand become less farang friendly (it's on the way folks). 

She had been dealing with a farang before me with a bank letter problem.  She told me all about it, I only half-listened but after reading your OP the next day, thought it sounded similar.

 

FWIW, if it were me, I would keep the credit and Immi accounts separate - the 800k in an account with no credit or ATM/Debit access. 

 

I got my current banking configuration idea from others here on TVF.  My two Immigration/"Aw Shit" Contingency lumps are in 2 Krungsi MTD accounts, with a third ATM account as/if needed.  My daily life accounts are in BKK Bank, the larger balance is where I drop in money from offshore once a month and it has no associated ATM/Debit card access.  Wife and I have ATMs for the second account, I transfer in money from the other account via IBanking as needed.  Maybe too pedantic but the idea is reducing exposure of larger balances to skimming and other assorted dodginess.  

[BuckBee]

OP would be wise changing account to no credit card, pretty uneeded and heavily charged here and if not drawing from it totally wasted anual fees and ballache from account rules. Simple savings account with debit or cash card and online banking with virtual visa debit covers most things easily, costs minimum fees per annum (nothing free in thailand banking and the love ripping off farang with unneeded account extras) and no ballache or hassle .

[LannaGuy]

33 minutes ago, 55Jay said:

She had been dealing with a farang before me with a bank letter problem.  She told me all about it, I only half-listened but after reading your OP the next day, thought it sounded similar.

 

FWIW, if it were me, I would keep the credit and Immi accounts separate - the 800k in an account with no credit or ATM/Debit access. 

 

I got my current banking configuration idea from others here on TVF.  My two Immigration/"Aw Shit" Contingency lumps are in 2 Krungsi MTD accounts, with a third ATM account as/if needed.  My daily life accounts are in BKK Bank, the larger balance is where I drop in money from offshore once a month and it has no associated ATM/Debit card access.  Wife and I have ATMs for the second account, I transfer in money from the other account via IBanking as needed.  Maybe too pedantic but the idea is reducing exposure of larger balances to skimming and other assorted dodginess.  

yes good advice I will do that and I had not realised they WERE linked until bank gave me 600,000k letter

[HooHaa]

On 3/24/2017 at 3:23 PM, GreasyFingers said:

A creditcard has other benefits including travel insurance when air tickets are purchased with it. I have a CC with Krungsri and while there is the withholding amount the insurance does work. I had to make a claim because of a long delayed Air Asia flight so missing another domestic flight. The insurance covered the cost of the new ticket. So CC's are handy.

Of course they are. I was simply responding to the qouted post.

[tropo]

On 3/24/2017 at 9:13 AM, pieeyed said:

No it is not a debit card. You can use it to purchase anything online worldwide like  normal credit card.

 

Which is exactly what you can do with a Visa or MasterCard debit card. 

[JimmyJ]

On 3/23/2017 at 7:03 PM, pieeyed said:

I have the same guaranteed wisdom credit card with Kasikorn with a 200,000 baht limit that I paid up front. For people without a work permit it is one of the only ways to get a credit card. Some years ago I used to use my USD dollar account to get my retirement extension. Chang Wattana told me that this was no longer acceptable and that I had to show 800,000 in thai baht. Also the account had to be active showing money in and out on a regular basis. You cannot just leave 800,000 baht sitting idle in your account all year.

"Also the account had to be active showing money in and out on a regular basis. You cannot just leave 800,000 baht sitting idle in your account all year."

 

Why do they require that?

 

Do all the Immigration Offices require that?

 

I was planning to put in 800k and let it sit, not get online access nor a debit or credit card for that account to prevent any hacking and/or bank errors to be blamed on the online or credit situation.

 

Then have a 2nd account at the same or a 2nd bank and get online and a cc/debit card for that.

[CMBob]

3 hours ago, JimmyJ said:

I was planning to put in 800k and let it sit, not get online access nor a debit or credit card for that account to prevent any hacking and/or bank errors to be blamed on the online or credit situation.

 

Then have a 2nd account at the same or a 2nd bank and get online and a cc/debit card for that.

Exactly what I've done for many years without any problems.  My separate "visa" account has never shown any activity and Immigration (Chiangmai) has never asked me a single question about that or inquired as to any other source of living expenses (which I pay out of a separate account that has an ATM/debit card associated with it).

 

I simply don't get why anybody would have a so-called "credit card" based on pledged amounts in their bank account.  A simple debit card (like my ATM/debit card) accomplishes the same purchasing power excepting (1) my immediate "pledging" is limited to the exact amount I spend and (2) whatever remains in that account would count toward the 800k figure for extensions.  In other words, a so-called "credit card" based on pledging (locking up) my own money surely isn't a true credit card at all.

[LannaGuy]

5 minutes ago, CMBob said:

Exactly what I've done for many years without any problems.  My separate "visa" account has never shown any activity and Immigration (Chiangmai) has never asked me a single question about that or inquired as to any other source of living expenses (which I pay out of a separate account that has an ATM/debit card associated with it).

 

I simply don't get why anybody would have a so-called "credit card" based on pledged amounts in their bank account.  A simple debit card (like my ATM/debit card) accomplishes the same purchasing power excepting (1) my immediate "pledging" is limited to the exact amount I spend and (2) whatever remains in that account would count toward the 800k figure for extensions.  In other words, a so-called "credit card" based on pledging (locking up) my own money surely isn't a true credit card at all.

I'm going to look into this debit card thing, in fact I have an ATM  Be 1st card so i guess that's a debit card,  but can it be used with Amazon?  Agoda etc?  everytime I try and use it at Rimping it gets rejected but I'll look at it again  

[CMBob]

Just now, LannaGuy said:

I'm going to look into this debit card thing, in fact I have an ATM  Be 1st card so i guess that's a debit card,  but can it be used with Amazon?  Agoda etc?  everytime I try and use it at Rimping it gets rejected but I'll look at it again  

I've never used it other than "in country" so haven't tried it with Amazon, Agoda, or such sites (for those sites, I usually end up using my US credit card).  My card is issued through Siam Commercial Bank and has "SCB debit card" printed on it.  The fact your card gets rejected at Rim Ping (I've used mine without a hitch there a ton of times) makes me think you don't have a debit card.  I've also used it online to make airline ticket purchases and at a whole lot of other stores and establishments here in Chiangmai and elsewhere in Thailand (the only seemingly qualifying requirement is that the store or establishment has one of those card swiping machines.....i.e., it won't be usable at the local kao man gai joint).

 

My card also has a "MasterCard" logo on it but that effectively means nothing as my card is not a credit card (perhaps the logo is there as the payments are routed through some payment procedure coined or owned by MasterCard).

[LannaGuy]

20 minutes ago, CMBob said:

I've never used it other than "in country" so haven't tried it with Amazon, Agoda, or such sites (for those sites, I usually end up using my US credit card).  My card is issued through Siam Commercial Bank and has "SCB debit card" printed on it.  The fact your card gets rejected at Rim Ping (I've used mine without a hitch there a ton of times) makes me think you don't have a debit card.  I've also used it online to make airline ticket purchases and at a whole lot of other stores and establishments here in Chiangmai and elsewhere in Thailand (the only seemingly qualifying requirement is that the store or establishment has one of those card swiping machines.....i.e., it won't be usable at the local kao man gai joint).

 

My card also has a "MasterCard" logo on it but that effectively means nothing as my card is not a credit card (perhaps the logo is there as the payments are routed through some payment procedure coined or owned by MasterCard).

right... further investigations will be undertaken but methinks I'll still need a CC for those international sites which I use extensively so it won't help my 'lock-up'.  I have no UK CC card as they expired and the UK Banks won't send any replacements out here.

[smedly]

5 hours ago, JimmyJ said:

"Also the account had to be active showing money in and out on a regular basis. You cannot just leave 800,000 baht sitting idle in your account all year."

 

Why do they require that?

 

Do all the Immigration Offices require that?

 

I was planning to put in 800k and let it sit, not get online access nor a debit or credit card for that account to prevent any hacking and/or bank errors to be blamed on the online or credit situation.

 

Then have a 2nd account at the same or a 2nd bank and get online and a cc/debit card for that.

what they want to see is "an" account with money going in (from outside Thailand )and out (from inside Thailand) otherwise they will suspect you have an income source inside Thailand (working illegally), it does not have to be the account that is holding your 800k baht, the only instance where you may not be able to do this is if you leave Thailand and bring in foreign cash and exchange it in country......always keep receipts. 

[Linesy]

I'm going to look into this debit card thing, in fact I have an ATM  Be 1st card so i guess that's a debit card,  but can it be used with Amazon?  Agoda etc?  everytime I try and use it at Rimping it gets rejected but I'll look at it again  

I've got the Be 1st VISA debit card and have used on Aliexpress and EBay via Paypal. I also had the card registered with Verified by Visa (tip from a Thaivisa member) and booked UK return flights. The Union Pay version being unfairly & wrongly forced on some is useless.

[LannaGuy]

48 minutes ago, Linesy said:

I've got the Be 1st VISA debit card and have used on Aliexpress and EBay via Paypal. I also had the card registered with Verified by Visa (tip from a Thaivisa member) and booked UK return flights. The Union Pay version being unfairly & wrongly forced on some is useless.

yes that's what I think i've got too but I'll go check it's working correctly as i can never pay with it  lol

 

I have the Verified by Visa on my Thai CC's - anyway I'll report back

[ubonjoe]

4 minutes ago, LannaGuy said:

yes that's what I think i've got too but I'll go check it's working correctly as i can never pay with it  lol

You have to set the daily limit for the ATM/Debit card before it will work as a debit card. You can call the bank and do it.

[Linesy]

yes that's what I think i've got too but I'll go check it's working correctly as i can never pay with it  lol   I have the Verified by Visa on my Thai CC's - anyway I'll report back 

 

 

I will add that I have a Visa "debit" ATM card with Kasikorn and it does not work as a debit card. The Kasikorn card doesn't have my name on it only something like "privileged member" and was issued immediately, my Be 1st card does have my name on it and I had to wait a week for issue. It came with a sizeable transaction limit that can be altered by calling the bank. The card arrived at the bank in a sealed envelope with PIN in protective slip. Here in Thailand a "debit" card does not necessarily mean it is a debit card and can only be used as an ATM card.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[BuckBee]

3 hours ago, CMBob said:

I've never used it other than "in country" so haven't tried it with Amazon, Agoda, or such sites (for those sites, I usually end up using my US credit card).  My card is issued through Siam Commercial Bank and has "SCB debit card" printed on it.  The fact your card gets rejected at Rim Ping (I've used mine without a hitch there a ton of times) makes me think you don't have a debit card.  I've also used it online to make airline ticket purchases and at a whole lot of other stores and establishments here in Chiangmai and elsewhere in Thailand (the only seemingly qualifying requirement is that the store or establishment has one of those card swiping machines.....i.e., it won't be usable at the local kao man gai joint).

 

My card also has a "MasterCard" logo on it but that effectively means nothing as my card is not a credit card (perhaps the logo is there as the payments are routed through some payment procedure coined or owned by MasterCard).Debit card same purchasing ability as credit card in general practice. Sometimes it advantage sometimes not. Main difference is with debit you actually got money while credit you possibly haven't and also incur more fees.

I use debit card for flights and hotels online and at the checkout counter. Do online buying with it and all works a1 no hassle and no big yearly fees.

They are branded mastercard or visa as that the payment company network used, handy have one of each for technical network issues and fact some online purchases may have a fee one or other while no charge for their prefered one. Debit cards are easily got here and the online virtual one is useful too.

I use kasikorn as find online site and online banking cleaner than a lot, all debit card limits can be set via atm or mobile banking app super easily .

Local credit cards are waste of money unless making most of any ectras which in thailand is unlikely as thai banking give you very little if look into it in depth ...

[LannaGuy]

2 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

You have to set the daily limit for the ATM/Debit card before it will work as a debit card. You can call the bank and do it.

Whoops that was embarrassing... went through the automated service and looks like it was not activated so I'll see how I get along and report back. If it does all a CC does with Amazon, Agoda and flight bookings I'll dump all the CCs

[TerraplaneGuy]

7 hours ago, smedly said:

what they want to see is "an" account with money going in (from outside Thailand )and out (from inside Thailand) otherwise they will suspect you have an income source inside Thailand (working illegally), it does not have to be the account that is holding your 800k baht, the only instance where you may not be able to do this is if you leave Thailand and bring in foreign cash and exchange it in country......always keep receipts. 

Has anyone actually been refused an extension because there was not enough (or any) activity showing in the bank account holding the 800K?

[YetAnother]

some incompatible arguments here; the bank is doing 'banking business' as they see fit; no problem there; immigration is performing a different service (HA); the fact is that the money WAS in the bank account for the time required; any possible oddity that the bank imagined is not germane to the immigration purpose; change banks/branches

[hgma]

Good post &discussion.

 

[LannaGuy]

10 hours ago, YetAnother said:

some incompatible arguments here; the bank is doing 'banking business' as they see fit; no problem there; immigration is performing a different service (HA); the fact is that the money WAS in the bank account for the time required; any possible oddity that the bank imagined is not germane to the immigration purpose; change banks/branches

Yes the money WAS in for 12 months as bank book showed BUT the bank letter said 600,000 and therein lies the problem.

 

I managed to persuade them this time but I'm not taking chance next time and if you are blissfully unaware and Immigration are having a bad day then what?  The bank were immovable the letter stays at 600,000 and I put an extra 200,000 in. BUT the 800,000 must be available for 3 months and I was LUCKY.

 

Decessio Caveto

 

(Retirement Beware)

[55Jay]

16 hours ago, TerraplaneGuy said:

Has anyone actually been refused an extension because there was not enough (or any) activity showing in the bank account holding the 800K?

Past 3 years I've used Krungsi accounts with little to no activity, apart from monthly interest deposits, and Immi has never questioned me specifically about activity. 

 

First 2 years here I used monthly income affidavits (US Embassy), and was never asked for supporting documents or to show bank books/accounts with transaction activity.

 

[IMA_FARANG]

The problem here I believe is that the OP has 200K Baht tied up as collateral for part of his/her 800K deposit in the bank.

Therefore only 600K is actually available in the actual account, the 200K Baht tied up as collateral is not available for withdrawal

[Mark123456]

On 3/24/2017 at 4:47 PM, hawker9000 said:

What part of CREDIT card don't thais understand?  If they're fencing off some portion of an existing cash asset, then  they're NOT extending "credit".

 

Yeap.  TIT alright.

I think "Thais" understand very well what a credit card is. They are also aware of the fact that if you run up a large debt on one and go back to your home country, they have no chance of collecting the debt, hence the reason they ask most foreigners to guarantee their credit cards with a cash balance. They realise this kind of defeats the point of having credit but it's bank policy at most banks I believe and given the number of foreigners in Thailand who have run up large debts in their home countries before running away to Thailand, I'd say the policy is completely understandable.

Edited March 28, 2017 by Mark123456

[LannaGuy]

15 hours ago, Mark123456 said:

I think "Thais" understand very well what a credit card is. They are also aware of the fact that if you run up a large debt on one and go back to your home country, they have no chance of collecting the debt, hence the reason they ask most foreigners to guarantee their credit cards with a cash balance. They realise this kind of defeats the point of having credit but it's bank policy at most banks I believe and given the number of foreigners in Thailand who have run up large debts in their home countries before running away to Thailand, I'd say the policy is completely understandable.

Yup unlike Thais who NEVER renege on debts and always settle their CC's in full as they never run away or change their names and are the most honest nation on God's earth.

 

Maybe you can give some data or links on the number of foreigners who escape to Thailand with 'large debts'?  foreigners have passports (most Thais don't) and they sign copies before obtaining CC's. If they abscond (do they?  how many? any facts?) the authorities can block those passports coming back and considering the low limit of credit available I don't think your point holds much water.

 

But this thread isn't about that it's about a visa AT RISK because the Bank changed it's policy but didn't tell anyone and my thread is a warning to others to check their guarantee is not on their visa account.

Edited March 28, 2017 by LannaGuy

[Mark123456]

1 hour ago, LannaGuy said:

Yup unlike Thais who NEVER renege on debts and always settle their CC's in full as they never run away or change their names and are the most honest nation on God's earth.

 

Maybe you can give some data or links on the number of foreigners who escape to Thailand with 'large debts'?  foreigners have passports (most Thais don't) and they sign copies before obtaining CC's. If they abscond (do they?  how many? any facts?) the authorities can block those passports coming back and considering the low limit of credit available I don't think your point holds much water.

 

But this thread isn't about that it's about a visa AT RISK because the Bank changed it's policy but didn't tell anyone and my thread is a warning to others to check their guarantee is not on their visa account.

How does blocking people from coming back to Thailand help the banks recover debts? My "point" as you put it, is perfectly valid. You're here on a non-immigrant visa and as far as the banks are concerned, could leave at any time. I don't need to provide data, do your own research if you're that interested. I'm not your damn secretary.

 

What on earth this has to do with Thai people and whether they default on credit card debt I don't know - seem to have a little bee in your bonnet there. And of course foreigners have passports....they wouldn't be here if they didn't - what a ridiculous statement. Thai people have ID cards, why would they need passports to get credit? Given your strange comments and anti-Thai sentiments, it's not surprising you run into problems here.

[LannaGuy]

2 minutes ago, Mark123456 said:

How does blocking people from coming back to Thailand help the banks recover debts? My "point" as you put it, is perfectly valid. You're here on a non-immigrant visa and as far as the banks are concerned, could leave at any time. I don't need to provide data, do your own research if you're that interested. I'm not your damn secretary.

 

What on earth this has to do with Thai people and whether they default on credit card debt I don't know - seem to have a little bee in your bonnet there. And of course foreigners have passports....they wouldn't be here if they didn't - what a ridiculous statement. Thai people have ID cards, why would they need passports to get credit? Given your strange comments and anti-Thai sentiments, it's not surprising you run into problems here.

So what you're saying is you have NO evidence you just wanted to TROLL my thread?  thanks

 

this thread is NOT ABOUT your views on whether a guarantee is 'valid' or not it's about being careful with the 800,000 account for a visa if it includes a CC guarantee as that will alter the bank letter

Edited March 29, 2017 by LannaGuy

[Mark123456]

1 minute ago, LannaGuy said:

So what you're saying is you have NO evidence you just wanted to TROLL my thread?  thanks

I've personally met several people who ran away from the UK owing money on credit cards, one more than £30,000 but that doesn't prove anything. My point was that Thai people are not stupid and they understand perfectly well what a credit card is and how it is supposed to work but the banks would have no way to recover debts from foreigners who decided to go home so it's understandable they ask for guarantees in many cases. That's a simple, indisputable fact, not a troll.

 

You don't need credit cards to buy things online from overseas vendors either. You can use a visa debit card, as others have stated. You seem to have a poor grasp of how banking payment systems work.

[LannaGuy]

35 minutes ago, Mark123456 said:

I've personally met several people who ran away from the UK owing money on credit cards, one more than £30,000 but that doesn't prove anything. My point was that Thai people are not stupid and they understand perfectly well what a credit card is and how it is supposed to work but the banks would have no way to recover debts from foreigners who decided to go home so it's understandable they ask for guarantees in many cases. That's a simple, indisputable fact, not a troll.

 

You don't need credit cards to buy things online from overseas vendors either. You can use a visa debit card, as others have stated. You seem to have a poor grasp of how banking payment systems work.

I have a Masters in Management so am quite aware thank you

 

<removed>

Edited March 29, 2017 by ubonjoe
Inflammatory baiting comment removed