Was hit by car in a crosswalk. Enough is enough.

[THAlx]

Happened yesterday. Waited for a while - maybe I would just "chill" overnight? Not much.

 

I have waited for about 5 or 7 or so minutes in the crosswalk before crossing (near Chang Phueak Gate), in an expectation that anybody would stop and let me go (naive1).

 

Waited until a small space in traffic became apparent.

 

Started to navigate within the crosswalk, keeping visual focus on the traffic.

 

First lane reduced speed. OK. Passed. Second lane reduced speed. OK. Passed. Third lane... despite the every possibilities to reduce speed and let me finish my legitimate maneuver, this guy decided to drive me over (naive2).

 

I had 2 conscious choices at that moment, which I remember perfectly:

 

(1) Jump on the bonnet of the car to force considerable damage to the car, attract attention and wait for police afterwards, call my lawyer, surrounded by all these people; (and charge my body with the impact damage)

 

(2) Jump backwards to avoid any trauma;

 

So I have instinctively picked (2) and smashed the bonnet with my left hand to reduce my own speed towards the vehicle. I saw a small kid in car jumped closer to the window to enjoy "the show" in a better perspective.

 

Picked up my phone to make a photo of the car, but he has even more accelerated, so it is all blurred in a picture.

 

I always keep business attire / appearance when going out or at least what could be perceived as "smart casual", clean shaven, hair cut.

 

After living for over one and a half years here in CM, I was really attracted to its natural beauty, especially the mountains.

 

I knew that TH is far from being perfect, and I tried my best to exercise patience and peaceful resilience. Not once have had I complained. Tried different approach, appearance, attitude.

 

But this indeed seems to be "the last straw that broke the camel's back".

 

I am compiling the (+) and (-) of my stay here, not sure anybody would be interested in these, but the overall balance has become deeply negative, objectively.

 

Am I perceived as a "white trash" tourist? The level of xenophobia is "just" over the scale?

 

Maybe it is just me?

 

Anyways, I am considering options to leave even without waiting to get my 1 year's lease deposit back, where necessary.

 

TH has become a too obnoxious, unwelcoming, life threatening mess. Even here in "quiet" northern CM.

 

I am so glad that I did not invest in neither the language nor the "Elite Visa" nor the local women nor the real estate/business, and have a possibility to "move on" with less considerable expense.

 

Would appreciate opinions and possible options (TH alternatives).

 

Thank you for paying attention.

[CMKiwi]

Yep it can be a dogs life out there on the streets.

 

Initially I too thought Thailand as the land of smiles would have a very caring and thoughtful attitude towards their fellow neighbour (Even the foreign ones).   Just 5 years ago that feeling was still alive.

 

Nowadays I see more and more an attitude of 'what's in it for me' or 'I don't give a damn about you' coming to the front.

 

It's not an enticing attitude to come across and if I am to do as the Romans do....then the missus will surely give me an ear bashing about my attitude!

 

You just gotta be very vigilant on these here roads. Life is cheap on all Thai roads and no one is exempt.

 

I've thought many a time at moving to Cambodia...but I haven't come across my 'straw' yet, but my back is getting a bit strained!

 

Hope you find a place that fits your expectations.

Edited April 5, 2017 by CMKiwi

[sharktooth]

They do drive one up the wall without even trying and remain completely ignorant after the fact, but at the end of the day it's all about anticipating the level of stupidity they can potentially exercise and therefore seek and execute an alternative course of action to the initial "logical" decision. 

[idman]

Well an incident like that would give one pause to access his continued living here in C.M. You are very lucky to have escaped without serious injury. For me




everyday there seems to be situations envolving a car, motorbike, red bus, van or pedestrians that gets my blood boiling. I try to take it in stride and after a few or many depending on the offense choice expletives I just carry on. Thais are without a doubt right up there in the cluelss dimwits population, from their me first to this b.s. face thing we as Farangs appear to be nothing more than a nuisance. I love here in C.M. and so I have made allowances for Thais behaving badly on a daily basis. I have to accept the fact that I will always" come out second best, that given any opportuinty Thais will <deleted> me over while giving me that phoney Thai smile, that no matter how hard I try to stay calm there are always going to be times when I just want to say "<deleted> this <deleted>, take your <deleted> Country and shove it where the sun doesn't shine." You have a decision to make, you have to weight all the pros and cons of continued living here. But remember, is the next place if it is here in Thailand going to be any different? Are you really going to find paradise? Good luck in your decision whatever it may be.

Sent from my SM-T805 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Shoeless Joe]

Any kind of "near miss" is traumatic but from what you've said, it appears that you escaped physical injury which is a blessing.

 

That being said it seems strange to me that after 18 months of living in Chiang Mai you still don't understand the requirements for crossing a busy road. You said you had already waited 5 or 7 minutes, but rather than a wait a couple / few minutes more for a more opportune time to cross (because obviously your "small space in the traffic" was too small!). Nevertheless you still decided instead to cross the road "keeping visual focus on the traffic" coming towards you! 

 

It beggars belief that you should have taken such a dangerous and stupid course of action. What was so important to you that you decided to put yourself and others at risk? Notwithstanding, you have zero sympathy for the driver of the vehicle (who might have also been shocked at your sudden appearance in the road). Are you so surprised that he drove on, probably thinking to himself another "crazy farang".

 

So yes, I'm glad you are uninjured, when it could have been so much worse. Personally, I think it's time for YOU to think carefully about being safety conscious both as a pedestrian and maybe as a driver and give due consideration to others.

 

Regards,

 

Joe

[daveAustin]

The traffic got proportions in CM from about 10 years ago... shudder to think how it is now. And pedestrians are on the lowest rung (Thai and farang alike); slightly above the humble soi dog. Their driving sucks, yes, but you can't really smack down the whole country/culture on one incident. Perhaps try a quieter area.

Edited April 5, 2017 by daveAustin

[saakura]

Would appreciate opinions and possible options (TH alternatives).

 

Most cheap Asian countries will be similar with the exception perhaps of a few countries such as Japan, Singapore, South Korea. Since money does not seem to be a big factor for you, i would suggest either these or back to farangland.

[FolkGuitar]

Glad that you weren't hurt (physically, anyway) by this event.

I do have a question, though.  Crossing the road by Chiang Puak Gate can be difficult, but that's why they installed a traffic light with a pedestrian crossing button to control it.

Why didn't you just press the button and wait for the green light?

 

Actually, there are three button-controlled lights along that stretch of road, one right at the Gate turn-off, and one 100 meter on either side of it.

[ttthailand]

Move ! Best city in Thailand is Bangkok for just about everything. You have crossovers and some under the road tunnels for crossing a road. For Transportation you have metered taxies, motorbike taxies, the BTS, the MRT, and buses. Most central areas have shopping malls, bars, coffee shops etc so no need to travel far and can normally walk with no problem. Bangkok has just about everything except beaches ... which most in Thailand are not worth visiting anyways. All the resort areas, Chiang Mai, Phuket, Pattaya etc are now over built and the infrastructure has not kept up and the low life farang and Thais have flooded the place.


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

[mduras01]

What you describe is something that happens amongst Thais too. This is the way things are - just live with it. It's all good. It was no different in the US for me - heck I even got held up twice at gunpoint back there, thankfully hasn't happened in Thailand... yet.


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

[canthai55]

12 minutes ago, ttthailand said:

Move ! Best city in Thailand is Bangkok

555

[Rob13]

Get out of CM, maybe Mae Rim or Chiang Rai. CM's getting too crowded and the traffic sucks.

[CharlieH]

Its a persons attitude to a situation that determines the outcome.

 

No matter where you travel, you are slways there. Is it the situation or your attitude toward it, that has changed. 

 

You should read some of the threads currently in "the Pub" regarding staying or moving on and the reasons for doing so.

[Trujillo]

So you were jaywalking? Is that what I understand? 

And you, "...smashed the bonnet with my left hand to reduce my own speed towards the vehicle." So that means the car didn't actually contact your body? 

 

If this one minor incident makes you question your being in Chiang Mai, or Thailand, then maybe SE Asia isn't really your cup of tea. 

[THAlx]

1 hour ago, ttthailand said:

Move ! Best city in Thailand is Bangkok for just about everything. You have crossovers and some under the road tunnels for crossing a road. For Transportation you have metered taxies, motorbike taxies, the BTS, the MRT, and buses. Most central areas have shopping malls, bars, coffee shops etc so no need to travel far and can normally walk with no problem. Bangkok has just about everything except beaches ... which most in Thailand are not worth visiting anyways. All the resort areas, Chiang Mai, Phuket, Pattaya etc are now over built and the infrastructure has not kept up and the low life farang and Thais have flooded the place.


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

 

May I ask you - what are you breathing there in BKK and where do you find non-polluted areas to live and do some jogging in the morning? I have found myself Bangkok to be quite intolerably polluted. Here in CM there are areas with less pollution though, especially the Suthep mountain. I actually go "out" to the city very rarely (once in a month or two).

Another question - do you really get more [than in "rural" areas such as CM] respect there in BKK as a white foreigner from the local population?

 

1 hour ago, mduras01 said:

What you describe is something that happens amongst Thais too. This is the way things are - just live with it. It's all good. It was no different in the US for me - heck I even got held up twice at gunpoint back there, thankfully hasn't happened in Thailand... yet.


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

 

Sounds like the streets are all the same, as soon as you are out of a car. Where in US did that happen to you?

 

1 hour ago, Rob13 said:

Get out of CM, maybe Mae Rim or Chiang Rai. CM's getting too crowded and the traffic sucks.

 

Mae Rim is great, indeed. Not as quiet as Suthep at nights though. Chiang Rai seemed deserted the last time I visited it about a year ago. Maybe it's because it was after 20:00. CM traffic sucks - big time!!!

 

1 hour ago, CharlieH said:

Its a persons attitude to a situation that determines the outcome.

 

No matter where you travel, you are slways there. Is it the situation or your attitude toward it, that has changed. 

 

You should read some of the threads currently in "the Pub" regarding staying or moving on and the reasons for doing so.

 

Very wise words, difficult to comprehend its scale at the first sight.

 

>No matter where you travel, you are always there. Is it the situation or your attitude toward it, that has changed.

 

This is gold. I would keep this quote of yours for myself, I'm sure you don't mind. Thanks much for sharing!

 

I have dedicated some time for "the Pub". Need to make the decision today or tomorrow.

 

3 hours ago, Shoeless Joe said:

Any kind of "near miss" is traumatic but from what you've said, it appears that you escaped physical injury which is a blessing.

 

That being said it seems strange to me that after 18 months of living in Chiang Mai you still don't understand the requirements for crossing a busy road. You said you had already waited 5 or 7 minutes, but rather than a wait a couple / few minutes more for a more opportune time to cross (because obviously your "small space in the traffic" was too small!). Nevertheless you still decided instead to cross the road "keeping visual focus on the traffic" coming towards you! 

 

It beggars belief that you should have taken such a dangerous and stupid course of action. What was so important to you that you decided to put yourself and others at risk? Notwithstanding, you have zero sympathy for the driver of the vehicle (who might have also been shocked at your sudden appearance in the road). Are you so surprised that he drove on, probably thinking to himself another "crazy farang".

 

So yes, I'm glad you are uninjured, when it could have been so much worse. Personally, I think it's time for YOU to think carefully about being safety conscious both as a pedestrian and maybe as a driver and give due consideration to others.

 

Regards,

 

Joe

 

Critical thinking is actually very helpful, I'm trying to understand your point, thanks for sharing. I have a few questions, if you don't mind.

Why is walking in an outlined crosswalk with road signs on both sides of the road and on its surface during broad daylight is considered as putting other road users such as vehicles and motorcycles and their drivers/riders at risk? The allowed city limit is 40km/h for a reason. Isn't that reason that there are pedestrian crosswalks all over the road? What is the point of these crosswalks then? (besides wage fees and metropolitan budget manipulations)

What kind of sympathy am I expected to radiate towards the driver who has consciously decided not to use their brakes and stop their car in front of a pedestrian who is on their way of finishing the outlined crosswalk, whereas other road users have already done that earlier and it was well visible?

 

>"small space in the traffic" was too small"

 

How would you measure or know it was "too small" from my description? There were visually over 3-4 car body lengths of space between traffic "waves", therefore my maneuver was visible and I am taller than the cars in traffic, so my human body was visible as well.

Honda City stops from 40km/h to 0km/h in approx. less than 2 (two) its own body lengths, even on the TH roads, which are more slippery than the "regular" asphalt which I have got used to in the EU/UK/SG/HK/MY/ID. I always try out the brakes before using a car, and I have driven Honda City in and around TH-CM/Pai/Lampang/Mae Rim. It is very obvious when a car's driver is making an effort to stop their vehicle or when otherwise intentionally not.

The point of this whole message is that it was done (i.e. stopping skipped) intentionally. To teach me a lesson on TH crosswalks? Lesson learned.

 

>It beggars belief that you should have taken such a dangerous and stupid course of action.

>Personally, I think it's time for YOU to think carefully about being safety conscious both as a pedestrian and maybe as a driver and give due consideration to others.

Thank you very much for your kind advice. I prefer using the road(s) as a back seat driver here in TH.

It was the rare case when I had to get out of a taxi and do some walking (driver decided that he would talk over the phone with his friend rather than do the job at hand, there are always surprises, just of different kind).

 

3 hours ago, CMKiwi said:

Yep it can be a dogs life out there on the streets.

...

You just gotta be very vigilant on these here roads. Life is cheap on all Thai roads and no one is exempt.

 

I've thought many a time at moving to Cambodia...but I haven't come across my 'straw' yet, but my back is getting a bit strained!

 

Hope you find a place that fits your expectations.

 

Thank you for mentioning Cambodia. The business visas seem to be "the easiest", cheapest and longest ones in the region. One, however, would question the reasoning behind it, as visas to Philippines are almost as easy, except that there is no need to leave Cambodia every year. (and Philippines/islands are far from being close to "a dream destination" these days safety-wise, isn't it?)

 

2 hours ago, saakura said:

Would appreciate opinions and possible options (TH alternatives).

 

Most cheap Asian countries will be similar with the exception perhaps of a few countries such as Japan, Singapore, South Korea. Since money does not seem to be a big factor for you, i would suggest either these or back to farangland.

 

These three appear to be actually the best choices in Asia, especially SG. Was keeping "last hopes" for VN, as money is a tool for investments and the more I could save, the more I would invest. But so well promoted HCMC seems far from being "cheap". Houses and HQ condo apartments start at USD 2k/month (at least those I could find online). The main "catch" with JP, SG, KR is the long term business visa. In some ways it is cheaper than the "second home" in MY, but is more cumbersome to extend/renew (SG has progressive scale for business expenditure and hired SG citizens per each year of extension, with every year being SGD 100k added to the scales).

I have even considered TW and NZ. In TW long term visa is quite cumbersome. In NZ I don't like worldwide taxation (just like in the US, but "only" 25% or 1/4, which is more than 3 times higher than in both HK and SG - 7% in both, with HK being classic offshore, which of course is a plus, and is now becoming less SAR and 100% China, which is a huge minus - depending on your point of view).

(JP Japan; SG Singapore; KR South Korea, Republic of; TW Taiwan/Taipei; NZ New Zealand; HK Hong Kong; US the U.S. of A.)

 

2 hours ago, FolkGuitar said:

Glad that you weren't hurt (physically, anyway) by this event.

I do have a question, though.  Crossing the road by Chiang Puak Gate can be difficult, but that's why they installed a traffic light with a pedestrian crossing button to control it.

Why didn't you just press the button and wait for the green light?

 

Actually, there are three button-controlled lights along that stretch of road, one right at the Gate turn-off, and one 100 meter on either side of it.

 

Yes! But these crosswalks are not so easily found. Possibly I should have traveled more distance first in either direction to discover these. The weather was hot, I must admit, as one would expect during the day.

 

2 hours ago, daveAustin said:

The traffic got proportions in CM from about 10 years ago... shudder to think how it is now. And pedestrians are on the lowest rung (Thai and farang alike); slightly above the humble soi dog. Their driving sucks, yes, but you can't really smack down the whole country/culture on one incident. Perhaps try a quieter area.

 

Good to know that. I hope my message here would be heard by the other wanna-be and/or active pedestrians in CM.

 

"you can't really smack down the whole country/culture on one incident. Perhaps try a quieter area."

 

I am afraid it would take a list of "quite a few" "incidents". That is something like a tipping point. I am not sure where the TH is being lead to by its leaders, newspapers and television (as I obviously do not read/listen/watch these), but in my understanding based on what I see and feel every day - its future is not quite bright for white "farangs" such as myself. Just pay attention to how other [local] people are treating you. I do not expect any roses not even smiles (this is "LOS", is it?). What I expect is a "basic" human respect, which I did not notice not here, nor in BKK, nor on the TH/LA land border.

 

1 hour ago, Trujillo said:

So you were jaywalking? Is that what I understand? 

And you, "...smashed the bonnet with my left hand to reduce my own speed towards the vehicle." So that means the car didn't actually contact your body? 

 

If this one minor incident makes you question your being in Chiang Mai, or Thailand, then maybe SE Asia isn't really your cup of tea. 

 

"Jaywalking occurs when a pedestrian crosses a roadway where regulations do not permit doing so. " src: Wikipedia.

 

If that is what you invest in word "Jaywalking", then I need to explain what I meant with the "crosswalk":

 

"A pedestrian crossing or crosswalk is a place designated for pedestrians to cross a road." src: Wikipedia.

 

There were read signs on every side of the road with the bleached white painting of the crosswalk on the surface of the road or "asphalt" (which is different than we know it).

 

>"If this one minor incident makes you question your being in Chiang Mai, or Thailand, then maybe SE Asia isn't really your cup of tea."

 

Well, this "minor" accident happened after the series of events and experiences. If you may decide to show your interest, I would be glad to share with fellow expats / foreigners.

I believe it is not the country where I would want to grow children, that is, at least, for sure.

 

Edited April 5, 2017 by THAlx

[FolkGuitar]

3 hours ago, FolkGuitar said:

Glad that you weren't hurt (physically, anyway) by this event.

I do have a question, though.  Crossing the road by Chiang Puak Gate can be difficult, but that's why they installed a traffic light with a pedestrian crossing button to control it.

Why didn't you just press the button and wait for the green light?

 

Actually, there are three button-controlled lights along that stretch of road, one right at the Gate turn-off, and one 100 meter on either side of it.

 

16 minutes ago, THAlx said:

Yes! But these crosswalks are not so easily found. Possibly I should have traveled more distance first in either direction to discover these. The weather was hot, I must admit, as one would expect during the day.

 

Yes... they do a great job hiding them between two large traffic lights and Zebra crossing marks in the street.  One can be found right AT Chiang Puak Gate. It's actually pretty hard to miss. The other two admittedly are less obvious, being situated again between two large traffic lights with Zebra crossing marks in the street, so the heat of the day would most likely conceal them from the casual observer...

[JaseTheBass]

Would appreciate opinions and possible options (TH alternatives).
 
Most cheap Asian countries will be similar with the exception perhaps of a few countries such as Japan, Singapore, South Korea. Since money does not seem to be a big factor for you, i would suggest either these or back to farangland.

Koreans are worse drivers than Thais.

[Trujillo]

Quote

"Jaywalking occurs when a pedestrian crosses a roadway where regulations do not permit doing so. "

Oh, if everything in SE Asia was followed to the letter of the law....

 

Just because there are white lines on the road, what -- given what you see on the road every day -- would lead you to believe that this "crosswalk" was sacred ground for pedestrians? 

 

In Taiwan in the mid 1980 we called them "target zones." You've been here 1.5 years and still think people will stop? 

[dingdongrb]

4 hours ago, Shoeless Joe said:

That being said it seems strange to me that after 18 months of living in Chiang Mai you still don't understand the requirements for crossing a busy road.

Exactly....  One would think with just living here a few months that walking across any street is a danger... The hardest thing for me was the need to actually look in both directions all the time even if it was a designated one way street. Honestly one needs to be cautious even when walking on the sidewalk....

[Shoeless Joe]

On the basis of your somewhat obtuse response to me (and despite what you say, it's obvious that the "small space in the traffic" was too small, otherwise you wouldn't have been close to being run over), it seems that you're going to be better off somewhere where the flow of traffic is more easily managed and monitored by the responsible agency.

 

Regretfully, throughout SE Asia you will see the same problems (I.E. drivers of vehicles going too fast and pedestrians taking unecessary risks). However, nowhere can you be perfectly safe. In all honesty I think you were just looking for a forum where you could vent your frustration and anger at having to wait a few minutes to cross a busy road. If Chiang Mai is not to your liking then perhaps a more rural area where the traffic is moderatley light would suit you better and where you would probably be able to cross roads in comparative safety.

 

If you really want somewhere to suit your needs then maybe the island of Sark in the Channel Islands would be more suitable for you as  Sark is one of the few remaining places in the world where cars are banned from roads and only tractors and horse-drawn vehicles are allowed.

 

Regards,

 

Joe

Edited April 5, 2017 by Shoeless Joe

[midas]

1 hour ago, FolkGuitar said:

 

 

Yes... they do a great job hiding them between two large traffic lights and Zebra crossing marks in the street.  One can be found right AT Chiang Puak Gate. It's actually pretty hard to miss. The other two admittedly are less obvious, being situated again between two large traffic lights with Zebra crossing marks in the street, so the heat of the day would most likely conceal them from the casual observer...

 

But even if he does find the lights no one at that location should ever cross the road just because there is a green pedestrian light.

You have to then wait to see that the cars in every lane have stopped or are travelling at a speed that will allow them to stop once they see you are crossing the road despite the fact that the motorists have a RED light.

Edited April 5, 2017 by midas

[Berkshire]

Years ago--back in the USA--I had an employee working for me who got hit by a car near our office building.  Not seriously hurt, but had to spend some time in the hospital.  Apparently, he was in a well-marked crosswalk when he got hit.  He walked in front of a car.  So we asked him "Why did you walk in front of a moving vehicle?"  His answer was "Because I had the right-of-way."  We all agreed that this was the stupidest answer ever.

[FolkGuitar]

17 minutes ago, midas said:

 

But even if he does find the lights no one at that location should ever cross the road just because there is a green pedestrian light.

You have to then wait to see that the cars in every lane have stopped or are travelling at a speed that will allow them to stop once they see you are crossing the road despite the fact that the motorists have a RED light.

 

Actually, I find the Chiang Puak crossing to be one of the very safest in Chiang Mai (Not that this is saying much...)  I go through that intersection several times a day, and all it takes is a slow careful walk, watching traffic as you go, to get across it safely. Cars DO stop for the pedestrians, and then go when they are past, regardless of the color of the light. That seems to be SOP for Chiang Mai.

 

[CMKiwi]

Funniest one I heard of was from a friend who just returned from a trip to Vietnam.

 

The trick there was not to make eye contact with the drivers and just walk across the road in a blind fashion.

 

Apparently the drivers MUST give way. But it's a different ball game if you do make eye contact.

 

My friend said it was perhaps one of the scariest things to do and he had to fight all his self preservation thoughts to do so. But he said it is the normal way of life for the locals.

 

Weird or what!

[Dante99]

Yeh, just keep walking and they swarm around you.  Stop, or make eye contact as if you might stop or pause and the shit hits the fan because you are not expected to do that.

 

Easiest to walk very very close to some locals who are crossing, there are some timming considerations on starting.

[cyberfarang]

It`s a rat race wherever we live. Nowhere is perfect unless you are filthy rich, can afford to buy your own island and live in peace and tranquillity. Many of us have been searching for our own utopia all our lives and never find it.

 

Over the years I have lived and worked in several different countries and have had the misfortune to come across some pig headed moron everywhere I`ve been. That`s life.

 

If the OP believes there are greener pastures elsewhere then he should go for it, but I doubt he will find situations much different wherever he decides to go. S**t happens and all we can do is put it down to having a bad experience and just get on with our lives.

[KhonKaenKowboy]

Folk Guitar nailed it.  Maybe the driver feels, lime I do, that there are a few too many "smart casual" guys around that area.

[balo]

OP sounds like a helpless person , maybe better to stay in the safety of your home. 

 

When you cross the roads in Thailand , you need to pay attention , looking left and right all the time and when it's clear run for your life.  If you do not get used to it there's no hope I'm afraid.   

 

 

 

 

[rogeroc]

The poor OP is getting a bit of a hammering here. He did point out that the traffic incident was the last straw. 

 

There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that Chiang Mai has gone downhill badly in many ways in the past few years and i sometimes feel that some on here are defending the indefensible, eg 'everywhere has it's problems',  'the night life is still good, you can still get a drink after 1200pm if you are locked in behind closed shutters' , 'you can walk an extra half a kilometre in the steaming heat because the drivers are idiots'. The truth is Chiang Mai is much worse in every way than it used to be! I have been away for 3 months now and if i do return it will only be for short periods. I am sad about that, i have good frends here but i cannot deny to myself what i was seeing in Chiang Mai on a daily basis.

[rogeroc]

TH has become a too obnoxious, unwelcoming, life threatening mess. Even here in "quiet" northern CM.

 

 

I have not travelled much in Thailand recently but i think CM is the place that is really suffering.