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Thais continue to criticize government pick-up laws


webfact

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Just now, possum1931 said:

"clutter up the already crammed roads".  What???? Where do you live? In some city centre??

Outside of cities, In my experience, the only time there are crammed roads is during holidays.

Do you have some kind of problem with myself (and 9 to 12 million others) living in Bangkok?

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5 minutes ago, TopOfTheMorning said:

Do you have some kind of problem with myself (and 9 to 12 million others) living in Bangkok?

No problem at all, but Bangkok is only a part of Thailand, there is maybe around 70% of the population that does not live in Bangkok.

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Thailand's finest on the way to work which includes fining people sitting in the wrong part of the vehicle and/or not wearing seat belts ........

The idea is excellent yet it will fail - as everything else - due to the implementation or rather lack of .........
 

On the way to arrest those without seat belts.jpg

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I am a little sympathetic towards those who may be effected by the renewed enforcement of this regulation. 

 

If I am correct, this is not a new law, rather it is an existing law. As with many existing laws their existence is sound, it is the enforcement which is so slapdash and inconsistent. This clearly leads to a culture of regularly flouted laws and regulations, usually borne out of convenience than anything else. 

 

With this example it is the poor man who will suffer. The BiB will simply collect on the spot fines, little will change - all that has really happened is the road tax for these folk has just increased. 

 

IF safety really is the concern of those in positions decision making power I would like to see more strict penalties and enforcement of those jumping traffic lights, tailgating, driving dangerously. I would like to see greater attention spent on road design and intelligent management of black-spots... Of course, we all know why this won't happen... Effort !!... anything which takes effort quickly looses ground as the path of least resistance and least effort is taken, which goes to show one thing... No one really cares.. this is all just lip service, something for the press and will be forgotten in a week or two, but not before its cost a few families of their daily earnings. 

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There is no need to take the whole extended family of 15 people to go shopping in Tesco's.  Most Thais don't know or care about the massive yearly loss of life of 25000 a year, unless one day it affects them directly. Meanwhile all we are hearing now is the '7 deadly days' even SB is doing it. There will there ever be a change until the government   addresses the 365 DANGEROUS DAYS!

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Shortly after moving over here, seem to remember my wife mentioning a helmet law campaign had kicked off, I saw the Keystone Kops up on the main highway nicking people for it.  Lots of moaning about how poor folk couldn't afford to buy a helmet, and other creative reasons why it was unreasonable and unfair. 

 

But they kept chipping away at it and now, IMO, it's fairly well established that you've got to wear a helmet, at least in city areas and main highways.   Not for reasons of self-preservation or idealistic Health and Safety nonsense, rather you might come upon a police check point and get nicked for a couple hundred Baht.  That's the only motivation that seems to work. 

 

Went through a seat belt and helmet phase in my country, about 30 and 20 years ago, respectively.  But the approach is about the same - education campaign + establish fines and/or increase existing ones, often to stupid levels, to demonstrate they mean business. People piss and moan for a while, then it becomes the new normal.  After sufficient repetitive messaging, folks eventually adopt the safety mantra and regurgitate the marketing jingles on command, and don't moan so much about the fines.

 

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the law has been around for years so everyone is aware that it is illegal to carry people in the back, the problem is that because the police refuse to enforce the laws by actually getting out on the roads nothing is ever done. Maybe if the powers that be actually bought CARS to patrol in  instead of the crap trucks they use now they might be able to be out on roads. The police refuse to enforce laws/face up to anyone unless there is something in it for them in most cases as well, way past time they were made to do their jobs and leave the air conditioned offices. As for the "people", they know its illegal but like most things here they simply dont care, its always whats best/cheapest/easiest for them, the amount of road deaths doesnt bother them until it happens to their families,  then they want something done. In other countries people buy vehicles that can fit all their family inside with seat belts(also mandatory in other countries) as well as fit baggage etc, just not overloaded like they do here. Being easier is no excuse for breaking the law or for the amount of deaths caused by doing it, time people started to accept the facts and not simply do what easiest for them, we have the truck for general use but we also have the car for when we have more than the two of us.

Edited by seajae
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8 hours ago, webfact said:

 

"It is as hot as fire but we have to ride in the back - because being poor is scary". This came from Amphai Matkhumson.

For the sake of disclosure I do not like lawyers but this statement he makes really cuts to the truth here. 

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1 hour ago, possum1931 said:

No problem at all, but Bangkok is only a part of Thailand, there is maybe around 70% of the population that does not live in Bangkok.

I would not live in Bangkok for free even though my status would be elevated. 

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2 hours ago, darksidedog said:

 Changing the habits of half a nation overnight is too much to ask for.

 

You might be right with that for Thailand.

 

However, Sweden switched in 1967 from left to right side. Only 157 (wikipedia) minor accidents happens at that day. Imagine the outcome if Thailand decides to do the same :)

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4 hours ago, naboo said:

You have to laugh at Farang calling Thais stupid for protesting this. Its the stupidity of the Farang, unable to see beyond his own vision.

 

Open/Smart Cab trucks are about 600,000B. 4 door trucks are about 800,000B. For years, for ever in fact, riding on bench seat in an Open/Smart Cab has been acceptable, not legal, but nobody was prosecuted. 

 

These trucks combine being able to run the family business with being able to transport the family around. Having the kids in the cab of a truck is clearly safer than them being on a motorbike, in the back of a Songtaew or on public transport.

 

Somchai and Somying earn maybe 25,000B a month from their business. Their car is their biggest purchase, but they can't justify a 4 door due to the extra cost and reduction in size of the pick up bed. 600,000B is the entirety of 2 years income, 800,000B is an extra 8 months on that. They need to live as well, where would the money come from?

 

So they struggle by for years, get the Smart Cab, the smart option. Then with the stroke of a pen Uncle Too makes their investment worthless and they become easy pickings for the police day in, day out.

 

You want them to shrug it off and find nearly three years salary? You think they're stupid for protesting? The stupidity comes from the top, and the criticising Farang. Bunch of idiots.

Spot on;

Amazing, all the westerners  showing great angst and handwringing and wailing about what the locals do, and will continue to do and it's really because they simply have no other options to do otherwise.
The majority, being lower income earners either have a motorbike 2,3,and 4 up to get around or on the back of the pick up truck that one of them is paying off that enables them to get around en mass.
They would all love to have the priviledge of traveling in an A/C car with seat belts and all other options.
Having to sit on the back of a pick up with the wind and heat and rain or dust and discomfort and travelling vast distances to get home for Songkran is not an enviable journey, i can tell you that.
Now imagine if all these poor  souls did actually have said cars, and didn't need to travel 10-12+ per truck, the gridlock and chaos would be a disaster.
I presume none of you are in such a social and or financial disadvantage that you need to travel as these poor souls do, so really has nothing much to do with you.
 
Fact is, that there are far more people who die and or are at risk of dying both here and in most of the world now a days from the effects simply of what they ingest daily.
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The worst accident I have ever seen: 6pm one evening on the Canal Road, Chiang Mai. After the121 junction (about 14km), there used to be a sharp left turn. The canal turned with the road and was probably 20 metres below the road height.

Scenario: ick up with 8 workers in the back. Fails to negotiate the left turn and carries straight on at about 80/90 kph. Hits the barrier, goes flying over it and ends up 20 metres below in the canal.

What happened to the workers? Well, as the pick up turned over these poor working folk went flying all over the place. None survived.

On another occasion I saw a pick-up turn on to it's side in a ditch. This was on the main Lampang-Bangkok highway. They had overtaken me earlier and the family were having a picnic in the back of their truck whilst the driver was on the outside lane doing about 100kph. One of the children was killed. I saw her lying on the road, obviously dead.

This happens with alarming regularity.

But, hey, Thais are free spirits. "We don't need no education" as Pink Floyd sang. "We don't need no regulation". Land of free spirits or of kwais?

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3 hours ago, geriatrickid said:

The individual described as an "online lawyer" should study up on subjects he wishes to comment on;

Kertphon Kaewkert said that suddenly saying that the law would be enforced was essentially unfair to the people.  Indeed.  Enforcing  the non commercial use of the beaches was unfair to the organized crime syndicates who controlled the  concessions. So what? 

 

Many people had bought vehicles that were now unfit for their intended use.

One cannot  expect to obtain protection from the law when engaged in an illegal act. This lawyer apparently missed the fundamental principle in his first year law class.

 

Kertphon said that a warning of the impending implementation of the law should have been made at least 4 to 6 months ago to give the people time to prepare.

The  faulty logic  is astounding. Should the government  also provide 4-6 months notice that it will enforce the helmet law, or that it will inspect heavy vehicles?  The danger is here and now. The carnage must stop now.

 

Also, he said, that people had bought insurance to carry 12 passengers. Was this to now be worthless expenditure?

The crowning glory of sheer and absolute ignorance.  Insurance policies can be endorsed or amended or even cancelled. Nothing stops an insured from changing the insurance policy. What does he think happens when an insured replaces or otherwise disposes of  an insured vehicle?

 

 

So easy when you don't have a horse in the race. Yes of course the law is good and should be enforced. However, you have a population that had every reason to believe that riding in the back of a smart cab, or in the back of a pickup was acceptable to the authorities. Considering no one had ever been charged with the breaking of this law, and the authorities also ride around in the backs of pickups as well.

Because the people had a reasonable understanding of what was allowed, they should not be forced to buy millions of new vehicles without any warning. And besides, this is impossible.

Most people will have to find credit, and save up for a down payment. And what happens to the equity they had in their smart cab, who's going to buy one or take one in trade now? They have become useless for what most people used them for. Crop prices continue to fall, how are the farmers going to get a new truck?

The fact is that if the government is truly going to enforce this law directly after Songkran, there is going to be substantial economic hardship for a great many people. A year's notice would do quite a lot to ameliorate the problem.

Yes they should enforce this law, but this kind of change to society is going to require a bit time and understanding.

But if you aren't affected, so easy to say suck it up. The moral high ground is so over populated these days.

Edited by canuckamuck
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'Many people had bought vehicles that were now unfit for their intended use.' Which one could be forgiven for thinking was the use of a cargo hold for carrying cargo.

 

'Also, he said, that people had bought insurance to carry 12 passengers.' In a pick-up? The insurance companies will insure a pick-up for twelve passengers?

 

'He suggested sarcastically that people would have been better off buying a motorcycle, not a pick up, if they could only seat two.' Not nearly sarcastically enough, though with Prayuth now back-pedalling on the pick-up, it's noticeable motorcycle overloading was ignored.

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23 minutes ago, canuckamuck said:

So easy when you don't have a horse in the race. Yes of course the law is good and should be enforced. However, you have a population that had every reason to believe that riding in the back of a smart cab, or in the back of a pickup was acceptable to the authorities. Considering no one had ever been charged with the breaking of this law, and the authorities also ride around in the backs of pickups as well.

Because the people had a reasonable understanding of what was allowed, they should not be forced to buy millions of new vehicles without any warning. And besides, this is impossible.

Most people will have to find credit, and save up for a down payment. And what happens to the equity they had in their smart cab, who's going to buy one or take one in trade now? They have become useless for what most people used them for. Crop prices continue to fall, how are the farmers going to get a new truck?

The fact is that if the government is truly going to enforce this law directly after Songkran, there is going to be substantial economic hardship for a great many people. A year's notice would do quite a lot to ameliorate the problem.

Yes they should enforce this law, but this kind of change to society is going to require a bit time and understanding.

But if you aren't affected, so easy to say suck it up. The moral high ground is so over populated these days.

'The moral high ground is so over populated these days.' Just like the cargo holds of the pick-ups.

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3 hours ago, onemorechang said:

We don't want that,

But 3500 +  a year dead on the roads and god knows how many with permanent injuries,  is crap.

Something needs to change.

Or maybe Thailand should just carry on down the same denial road for ever.

What do you think ?

 

 

How about we don't follow the stupid, drone-like methodology of the Nanny states, and not try to perfect life 100%?

Pick the low hanging fruit, and accept that life is full of mishaps that cannot be eliminated 100%.

How many people are dying from riding in the back of a pickup, versus accidents caused by drunk drivers?

A 10% improvement from serious enforcement of drunk driving laws is smarter than a 0.1% improvement enforcing the pickup laws.

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8 hours ago, taichiplanet said:

more proof of how stupid people can be, by putting convenience over saving lives. The PM should've stood his ground on this one. The laws are already there, either implement them or shut up about the constant pontifications of government departments wanting to save lives.

8 hours ago, taichiplanet said:

more proof of how stupid people can be, by putting convenience over saving lives. The PM should've stood his ground on this one. The laws are already there, either implement them or shut up about the constant pontifications of government departments wanting to save lives.

More proof of how stupid people can be, by not understanding that you create your own reality, so once you decide to die you will do so...

Thus, the idea of saving lives is pathetic lol... For whomsoever loves endless laws being implemented, please move to the West! Thanks :welcomeani:

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28 minutes ago, timendres said:

 

How about we don't follow the stupid, drone-like methodology of the Nanny states, and not try to perfect life 100%?

Pick the low hanging fruit, and accept that life is full of mishaps that cannot be eliminated 100%.

How many people are dying from riding in the back of a pickup, versus accidents caused by drunk drivers?

A 10% improvement from serious enforcement of drunk driving laws is smarter than a 0.1% improvement enforcing the pickup laws.

To be honest, i don't care about the idiots who die on the roads,  i feel sorry for the children ,  but i put the blame  at the parents feet for that.

Stupid is as stupid does.

 

I care about myself and family,  after  21 years of Riding and Driving here,   the last 3 have been crazy,,  i would say there is an upward trend of dangerous practices on the roads of Thailand.

So I am happy for any rules that may make it safer for me.

More rules,  , More fines,   More shaming on social media.

Lets have it.

Nanny state , I don't think so !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  :stoner:

 

 

 

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10 hours ago, webfact said:

Kertphon said that a warning of the impending implementation of the law should have been made at least 4 to 6 months ago to give the people time to prepare.

So...it takes upto 6 months to make them "understand"...

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6 hours ago, onemorechang said:

We don't want that,

But 3500 +  a year dead on the roads and god knows how many with permanent injuries,  is crap.

Something needs to change.

Or maybe Thailand should just carry on down the same denial road for ever.

What do you think ?

 

I read someplace 73% of deaths are motor bikes,  17% cars trucks vans whatever and the rest bicycles or whatever. A bit like flying. Bad when it happens but a very small percentage of passengers. It would be nice to see the count involving passengers in the back of a pick up. One takes ones chances just crossing the street . The 17% includes buses I believe.

Edited by johnmcc6
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Just now, johnmcc6 said:

I read someplace 73% of deaths are motor bikes,  17% cars trucks vans whatever and the rest bicycles or whatever. A bit like flying. Bad when it happens but a very small percentage of passengers. It would be nice to see the count involving passengers in the back of a pick up. One takes ones chances just crossing the street .

Yes,  take care crossing the street. :coffee1:

 

More rules and regulations are a good thing.

not bad..

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11 hours ago, onemorechang said:

Tough  luck boys suck it up :thumbsup:

More rules and regulations for Drivers and Riders in Thailand is a good thing.

Get over it obey the new rules

 

Enforcing it all,  is a bit harder,  we need an attitude adjustment by the police to address that one.

 

Maybe give the police officer a direct percentage of the take,   for the offence committed.  :ohmy:

Got to try something,  as it don't work so well at present. :jap:

 

 

 

 

Mostly they take 100% now.  By that I mean no percentage goes beyond the hands of the fining officer and his superiors. And that is not working for improved safety.

Edited by The Deerhunter
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12 minutes ago, The Deerhunter said:

Mostly they take 100% now.  By that I mean no percentage goes beyond the hands of the fining officer and his superiors. And that is not working for improved safety.

Firstly they cant take 100% can they !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! total nonsense.

 

But anyway put the fine for what ever it is now , up by say 10%

give that directly to the cops in his monthly  wage. and no one is at a loss.

Easy isn't it !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Yes it would improve safety,  as some wont want to pay the  fines, 

so they wont do the crime !!!!!!!!!!!

Easy isn't it.

 

Or do we do we carry on doing this :hit-the-fan:

 

 

ostrich-man-in-sand.jpg

Edited by onemorechang
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4 hours ago, onemorechang said:

To be honest, i don't care about the idiots who die on the roads,  i feel sorry for the children ,  but i put the blame  at the parents feet for that.

Stupid is as stupid does.

 

I care about myself and family,  after  21 years of Riding and Driving here,   the last 3 have been crazy,,  i would say there is an upward trend of dangerous practices on the roads of Thailand.

So I am happy for any rules that may make it safer for me.

More rules,  , More fines,   More shaming on social media.

Lets have it.

Nanny state , I don't think so !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  :stoner:

 

Precisely. And I suspect that drunk drivers are a far greater threat to your safety than some people riding in the back of a pickup.

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So the death rate on the roads here is the worst in the world, forgetting Libya as that place is at war.

 

Whats the answer?

 

Do as the UK does enforce the law.

BIBs to do a full 8 hour shift working that is

Speeders get bans and vehicles confiscated

Red bull drivers get arrest warrants issued

CCTV works fine here but must suffer from the heat in Thai as they never work.

Boy racers banned from driving, just because the size of the exhaust??

 

Wasting my time here writing this as nothing will change will it

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