Emergency patients forced to pay for ‘free’ care

[4jasmin]

The main Question is, what can you do, if one of a Member in your Thai Family or Thai Friends is in such a Situation?

 

If this "Emergency Treatment Right" is a Law, could one not inforce it by asking the Police for help?

 

The second Question would be, what Insurance you would need to cover such Accidents?

Edited April 11, 2017 by 4jasmin

[louse1953]

4 hours ago, robblok said:

Your right Thailand has a real bad tax base, but they could try to spend their money better.. less on the army more on the health budget. Still your right a big group of people does not pay any taxes even though they are not poor.  Its hard to collect from people with their own business (as a private person). They just don't file all their income. Also too much is given out to the farmers.. that could go to the health budget too.. those 500billion of YL  in the rice program is TWICE the anual budget of healthcare. Not really fair that such a small group receives so much while others who pay in the system don't get much. 

No farmers driving BMWor Merc out my way.Most people go to the fields on a clapped out motor bike and do the whole process by hand.Then barely break even.Mostly women,many over 60.The man is in Bangkok working,he may come home to help.If they don't get a handout from the govt they will have to sell up,which is hard.The crunch is gunna come in the next 10-20 years when the oldies die and the next generation wont do it.Either they have jobs or are too lazy.

[louse1953]

41 minutes ago, 4jasmin said:

The main Question is, what can you do, if one of a Member in your Thai Family or Thai Friends is in such a Situation?

 

If this "Emergency Treatment Right" is a Law, could one not inforce it by asking the Police for help?

 

The second Question would be, what Insurance you would need to cover such Accidents?

You haven't been here long,have you.

[Gulfsailor]

3 hours ago, robblok said:

Yes they paid VAT but then sell it at a profit and that margin is not taxed by VAT.. people buying stuff at markets don't pay VAT at all as much of the stuff is never taxed and they shop owner does not pay vat at all (talking fruits and veggies here )

Raw food like fruits and veggies are VAT free in Thailand. Only when they are processed or used as ingredients will the final product have VAT added. I'm not sure about milled rice. 

[robblok]

4 minutes ago, louse1953 said:

No farmers driving BMWor Merc out my way.Most people go to the fields on a clapped out motor bike and do the whole process by hand.Then barely break even.Mostly women,many over 60.The man is in Bangkok working,he may come home to help.If they don't get a handout from the govt they will have to sell up,which is hard.The crunch is gunna come in the next 10-20 years when the oldies die and the next generation wont do it.Either they have jobs or are too lazy.

OT here but maybe selling up is what is needed, Thailand is not producing as much rice per Rai as its neighbors has higher costs and so on. Why would normal also poor people subsidies this while money could be spend on the health budget... they got 2x the annual health budget for their rice. I don't see why farmers who are not economical viable should be helped all the time. Do they do the same for struggling beauty salons or garages ? This is all I have to say about this as its totally off topic. I just found it interesting to see that double the health budget was spend on them. While others like people who work at 711 don't make much either but don't get money thrown at them.. must have something to do with a big voting block over there.

[robblok]

2 minutes ago, Gulfsailor said:

Raw food like fruits and veggies are VAT free in Thailand. Only when they are processed or used as ingredients will the final product have VAT added. I'm not sure about milled rice. 

Thanks for correcting me.. that was something i did not know. 

[eggers]

Usual lack of full details given both by Health Ministry & daily papers. 

Even as to who is covered has not been stated.....Is a foreigner included as "a patient" or is it only Thais that will be treated??

[Thaidream]

Disagree completely- the only reason treatments and life saving medicines have become expensive is that the medical network of hospitals; doctors; medical device companies and pharmaceutical companies have become greedy capitalists raising prices to ridiculous levels.

The way you combat this is by using only a single payer system in which government agencies control all medical care and set limits on reimbursement and purchases. Once this happens the medical industry will find that they have to accept these prices or they go out of business. The Pharmaceutical industry can be brought to bear simply by refusing to go with drugs that are over priced in which governments break patents or develop a Government Pharmacy Industry.

 

If Thailand can provide reasonably priced healthcare so can America and Europe. Healthcare is a right not a commodity that goes to the highest bidder.

 

Rationing healthcare based upon age or other categorizations would be a disaster. We don't need death panels to decide who gets treatment and who doesn't. Governments have no problem with spending billions on defense with ever increasing defense budgets. I am certain they have the money for healthcare by shifting budget priorities.

[elgordo38]

9 hours ago, webfact said:

But doctors also told me that his condition was serious and that he might die without surgery,” Achara said.

So its the law of the land but open to a hospitals interpretation. Again profits before people. I smell lawsuits here. Hospitals always looking for wiggle room. 

Edited April 11, 2017 by elgordo38

[elgordo38]

21 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

Disagree completely- the only reason treatments and life saving medicines have become expensive is that the medical network of hospitals; doctors; medical device companies and pharmaceutical companies have become greedy capitalists raising prices to ridiculous levels.

The way you combat this is by using only a single payer system in which government agencies control all medical care and set limits on reimbursement and purchases. Once this happens the medical industry will find that they have to accept these prices or they go out of business. The Pharmaceutical industry can be brought to bear simply by refusing to go with drugs that are over priced in which governments break patents or develop a Government Pharmacy Industry.

 

If Thailand can provide reasonably priced healthcare so can America and Europe. Healthcare is a right not a commodity that goes to the highest bidder.

 

Rationing healthcare based upon age or other categorizations would be a disaster. We don't need death panels to decide who gets treatment and who doesn't. Governments have no problem with spending billions on defense with ever increasing defense budgets. I am certain they have the money for healthcare by shifting budget priorities.

A good read which of course benefits people but not hospitals and governments. Defense spending is going nuts in every country in the world. 

[SOUTHERNSTAR]

5 hours ago, robblok said:

Your right Thailand has a real bad tax base, but they could try to spend their money better.. less on the army more on the health budget. Still your right a big group of people does not pay any taxes even though they are not poor.  Its hard to collect from people with their own business (as a private person). They just don't file all their income. Also too much is given out to the farmers.. that could go to the health budget too.. those 500billion of YL  in the rice program is TWICE the anual budget of healthcare. Not really fair that such a small group receives so much while others who pay in the system don't get much. 

The rice scheme B 500 bn was spend over 3 financial years and was thus per year less than the health care budget. The 2016 fiscal year health expenses was B 274 bn (not to defend the scheme but for factual correctness). The defence budget was B 203 bn and education B 550 bn in 2016.  In case of the army this total waste goes on every year, paying for 1440 Generals in an army of 220 000 (compared to 140 generals in the US army of +- 1 million). The education system gets the biggest cut of the budget and produces garbage results. Paying a civil service that has increased 3 fold since 2000. Instead of looking in the rear view mirror for the rest of our life lets concentrate on the present and future.  Lets concentrate on wasteful spending on subs, tanks, oversized army and civil service. Lets streamline the country to become more competitive and less corrupt. If someone points a finger at the junta for buying subs don't try to counter with reference to YS, that is old style politics for small minds. It's not about the junta versus YS, it is about Thailand and its future.

[thailand49]

A contradictions to Emergency?  Does it have to be a accident now, there is no speculation in the wording that indicates it?  Does a person with a severe case of Dengue qualify, does a person with HIV, immune system none not qualify for treatment? 

 

When it comes to money, this country seems to have plenty of it when it needs to build roads, tunnels, and overpasses?  especially in the Chon Buri area. Have you seen all future toll plaza going up, now another flyover highway to Rayong.  Is this another free idea and program that looks good on paper to make the leaders look good or just another smoke and mirror program.

Edited April 11, 2017 by thailand49

[Thaidream]

While I agree with your sentiments of looking to the future one must be cognizant of the past so the same mistakes are not continually made. Thailand has so much untapped potential that it is amazing and could have a great future with the right choices.

 

In addition, Thailand has the advantage of an expat population that is extremely talented. During my many decades here I have met such a diverse number of nationalities that have many years of professional and technical experience- all of which could be tapped by the Kingdom simply by asking or creating opportunities for retired expats to work.

 

The concept of free 72 hour emergency healthcare is a wonderful concept but it has to have enforcement. Thailand at least has a 30 Bht healthcare program that provides a form of universal coverage. It is disliked by hospital administrators and doctors who are seeking more personal income but they are wrong and need to be thwarted in adopting the American system of healthcare.

 

To my mind- there are certain things in life that have to be deemed a universal human right and healthcare is one of them and so is education to include a university or technical degree. Nations need to stop consuming an inordinate amount of the national budget for weapons of war and instead take care of their people.

 

Why do countries like Switzerland and Norway have such a highly educated population with the World's highest incomes and universal social services for its citizens. They seldom go to war....

 

[darksidedog]

Everyone seems ready to wave the corruption flag here, but while I would tend to agree that may well be true, the point most are missing is that this is a story about, to my mind anyway, the difference in opinion from the person, or their families view of how sick a patient is, and the doctors opinion.

While some were probably pushed off to other hospitals, I note that the story doesn't actually tell us of any person that actually died as a result, which would generally suggest the Doctors diagnoses were pretty correct.

[natway09]

My major concern here with the 72 hour clause is that

Dr Somchai,,, "just gotta keep him breathing  for 72 hours & then can palm him off"

instead of treating the patient properly.

anyway, Songkran is here.... plenty cannon fodder to keep the hospitals busy for the next 2 weeks

 

 

[robblok]

30 minutes ago, SOUTHERNSTAR said:

The rice scheme B 500 bn was spend over 3 financial years and was thus per year less than the health care budget. The 2016 fiscal year health expenses was B 274 bn (not to defend the scheme but for factual correctness). The defence budget was B 203 bn and education B 550 bn in 2016.  In case of the army this total waste goes on every year, paying for 1440 Generals in an army of 220 000 (compared to 140 generals in the US army of +- 1 million). The education system gets the biggest cut of the budget and produces garbage results. Paying a civil service that has increased 3 fold since 2000. Instead of looking in the rear view mirror for the rest of our life lets concentrate on the present and future.  Lets concentrate on wasteful spending on subs, tanks, oversized army and civil service. Lets streamline the country to become more competitive and less corrupt. If someone points a finger at the junta for buying subs don't try to counter with reference to YS, that is old style politics for small minds. It's not about the junta versus YS, it is about Thailand and its future.

You should look my name up in the sub topic.. i am against it..and even in this topic did i say the army could spend less. That does not mean I agree with the spending on farmers.  I also agree with you that the education system and how much i spend and how little is achieved. 

[hawker9000]

I wonder how many of these people could've been treated with the money spent on three submarines and tanks being purchased from Beijing BFF & Sons, for which the country has absolutely no legitimate use whatsoever?  But of course far more likely than any such reallocation of totally wasted funding will be a new tax on our plane tickets for "medical insurance" or "enhanced security", or higher taxes on alcohol & tobacco.  Oh wait...

[robblok]

18 minutes ago, darksidedog said:

Everyone seems ready to wave the corruption flag here, but while I would tend to agree that may well be true, the point most are missing is that this is a story about, to my mind anyway, the difference in opinion from the person, or their families view of how sick a patient is, and the doctors opinion.

While some were probably pushed off to other hospitals, I note that the story doesn't actually tell us of any person that actually died as a result, which would generally suggest the Doctors diagnoses were pretty correct.

I agree with you but i think that Dr's might be pressured by administrators to stretch the definition a bit as not to get too much of a burden on the hospital.

[SOUTHERNSTAR]

5 hours ago, robblok said:

Yes they paid VAT but then sell it at a profit and that margin is not taxed by VAT.. people buying stuff at markets don't pay VAT at all as much of the stuff is never taxed and they shop owner does not pay vat at all (talking fruits and veggies here )

I think you got lost somewhere. The law states that you can only register for VAT if your turnover is B 1,8 m or more. Many of these shops don't generate this type of turnover. In the first instance these people are not breaking the law as you imply and secondly it is the job of the tax department to check shops to make certain they register when their turnover are more than B 1,8 m. This however is not happening and the question is why. Instead of increasing tax rates it is better to increase the tax base width and improving tax collection percentages. For that reason a new law was passed relating to people that cheat on taxes by not declaring income or not declaring the full amount of their income. According to this law peoples assets can be frozen if found they broke the law. Yet we still need to see the tax returns of the present PM to show he paid taxes on the B 680 m wealth he accumulated. Do you not think that the PM should set the example for the country when it comes to paying taxes and abiding by the law ?

[robblok]

7 minutes ago, SOUTHERNSTAR said:

I think you got lost somewhere. The law states that you can only register for VAT if your turnover is B 1,8 m or more. Many of these shops don't generate this type of turnover. In the first instance these people are not breaking the law as you imply and secondly it is the job of the tax department to check shops to make certain they register when their turnover are more than B 1,8 m. This however is not happening and the question is why. Instead of increasing tax rates it is better to increase the tax base width and improving tax collection percentages. For that reason a new law was passed relating to people that cheat on taxes by not declaring income or not declaring the full amount of their income. According to this law peoples assets can be frozen if found they broke the law. Yet we still need to see the tax returns of the present PM to show he paid taxes on the B 680 m wealth he accumulated. Do you not think that the PM should set the example for the country when it comes to paying taxes and abiding by the law ?

I did not imply it was illegal, and you are right the tax office should get out more making more trips. I wonder how many of those guys are corrupt... i mean pay me this and ill agree with your filing.

 

As for the PM and his wealth I feel just like Thaksin he should pay tax over it according to the law.  The same goes for all rich people no matter what side of the political divide they are. 

[sambum]

5 hours ago, janpharma said:

Sew the hospital director and take him to Court!

"Sew"? You mean "stitch him up"? He's already done that to himself by "not understanding"!

[sambum]

4 hours ago, Bob12345 said:

This is very open for interpretation; if you have cancer and go without treatment (surgery and/or chemo) you will die, but there is no problem to wait with the treatment a couple of hours or days. While the illness is life threatening, it does not require immidiate treatment. In such a case the hospital would be right to refuse free treatment and demand payment.

 

So what does this mean? Are "they" saying that the hospital made a mistake by not allowing free treatment immediately or are they just saying this to avoid public scrutiny? And if the hospital made a mistake, what actions will be taken to avoid this happening again in the future? Or does this mean that you can anything as long as you get enough likes on your story in social media?

Almost certainly "social media" was the deciding factor in this case, but as to it not happening again in the future? I'mot taking bets!

[maoro2013]

6 hours ago, robblok said:

Yes they paid VAT but then sell it at a profit and that margin is not taxed by VAT.. people buying stuff at markets don't pay VAT at all as much of the stuff is never taxed and they shop owner does not pay vat at all (talking fruits and veggies here )

Yes the 'value added' is not charged but I  think we understand each other.

[oldlakey]

4 hours ago, louse1953 said:

No farmers driving BMWor Merc out my way.Most people go to the fields on a clapped out motor bike and do the whole process by hand.Then barely break even.Mostly women,many over 60.The man is in Bangkok working,he may come home to help.If they don't get a handout from the govt they will have to sell up,which is hard.The crunch is gunna come in the next 10-20 years when the oldies die and the next generation wont do it.Either they have jobs or are too lazy.

Hopefully too much sense

[elgordo38]

all of which could be tapped by the Kingdom simply by asking or creating opportunities for retired expats to work.

Common sense strikes again. Make mine a double Tylenol that is. 

 

[wakeupplease]

The only things that are free around this place are the air you breath (for now) and the bullS>>> that seems to be never ending from those up top who must be having a competition between themselves to see who can tell the best lies.

 

Farm subsidies are paid in most country's, just look at what France gets out of the EU and yes over here they do drive BM's and £100.000+ tractors.

 

The sooner some stop living in the past on here the better YL and TH are history, yet some always try to get the names in a thread Obsessive Compulsive Disorder springs to mind, so should go see a doctor, but I guess you would have to pay to see a doctor as OCD is not  life threatening, so that's a pity, but its bloody boring. Education B 550 bn in 2016, by the standards I saw most of that must have gone into back pockets.

[Thaidream]

The 3 things that would change the lives of people in Thailand are: 1.  A massive reduction in the defense budget with savings going to healthcare and education

2.  Legalization of drugs : with the release of thousands from prison with guaranteed jobs; treatment for any addiction and housing subsidies. The monies would come from the closing of prisons and reduction in salaries needed to pay for prison guards and police.

3.  The opening of industry/factories targeting ISSAN and the possibility of relocating some small industry from the Eastern Seaboard to the same area.

[oldlakey]

2 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

The 3 things that would change the lives of people in Thailand are: 1.  A massive reduction in the defense budget with savings going to healthcare and education

2.  Legalization of drugs : with the release of thousands from prison with guaranteed jobs; treatment for any addiction and housing subsidies. The monies would come from the closing of prisons and reduction in salaries needed to pay for prison guards and police.

3.  The opening of industry/factories targeting ISSAN and the possibility of relocating some small industry from the Eastern Seaboard to the same area.

Any chance or just a dream

[Thaidream]

No chance in Hell!  Just a dream!!

[Retiredandhappyhere]

Why is it that virtually every new scheme introduced or statement made by any official of the current "government" has subsequently to be clarified, and explained, due to claimed "misunderstandings".  Perhaps they need to spend more time in working on their presentation?

 

Thus, the hospital concerned in this incident allegedly did not fully understand the scheme.  Is that the fault of the government or the hospital?  Or was it in the hospital's interest to "misunderstand" how the scheme worked since that would result in a lot more money being extracted from patients?